Novak is not going to the US Open

[+ WilliamM]

He  posted on Facebook about missing the US Open Tennis Turnaround.

John Mac will  be very upset

[Bucky]

Since ~ 5 BILLION people have been Covid vaxed with virtually zero evidence of negative side effects (so far) I don't find refusal to be even remotely logical.  

However, it's his right.   And the Open's right to block his participation.  

It just makes him look stubborn, silly and ill-informed. 

Now watch him and Kyrie Irving be the only athletes that live to be 70!!  oh oh....  

[+ Charlie]

The US Open has not blocked him--they do not require participants to be vaccinated. He can't participate because the US gov't requires foreign visitors to be vaccinated.

[+ WilliamM]

As does Canada

[BSR]

11 hours ago, Charlie said:

The US Open has not blocked him--they do not require participants to be vaccinated. He can't participate because the US gov't requires foreign visitors to be vaccinated.

Correct, in fact, NYC has a law exempting pro athletes and entertainers from vax mandates.  If Novak had somehow gotten entry into the US, he would 100% be eligible to play the US Open.

[BSR]

12 hours ago, Bucky said:

Since ~ 5 BILLION people have been Covid vaxed with virtually zero evidence of negative side effects (so far) I don't find refusal to be even remotely logical.  

However, it's his right.   And the Open's right to block his participation.  

It just makes him look stubborn, silly and ill-informed. 

Now watch him and Kyrie Irving be the only athletes that live to be 70!!  oh oh....  

To clarify, Novak has never been anti-vaccine.  He opposes government forcing people to get vaccinated.  In that sense, I agree with him.  If government can force you to put something into your body against your will, government can force you to do anything.

In any case, I'm pretty sure Novak will be able to play the Australian Open next year.  It sounds like the new government is amenable to lifting Novak's 3-year ban.  He's already able to play Roland Garros and Wimbledon.  Hopefully the US lifts its vaccination requirement for foreign visitors in time for the 2023 USO.

[Bucky]

16 hours ago, BSR said:

To clarify, Novak has never been anti-vaccine.  He opposes government forcing people to get vaccinated.  In that sense, I agree with him.  If government can force you to put something into your body against your will, government can force you to do anything.

I stand corrected. The US Open is not barring his participation.  

However, I don't believe the US Government is forcing anyone to get the vaccine against their will.  

Choices are often complicated and if Novak is protesting government overreach, good for him.  But it still remains that the only reason he isn't playing is his refusal to be vaxed.

[BSR]

5 hours ago, Bucky said:

I stand corrected. The US Open is not barring his participation.  

However, I don't believe the US Government is forcing anyone to get the vaccine against their will.  

Choices are often complicated and if Novak is protesting government overreach, good for him.  But it still remains that the only reason he isn't playing is his refusal to be vaxed.

Technically no, the government isn't locking people up or putting a gun to their head to "force" them to get the vaccine.  But they are, for example, expelling people from the military for refusing the jab.  Maybe taking away a person's job/career isn't your definition of "force," but it is some serious pressure.  On the flip side, hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens refuse the vaxx yet are allowed to enter and stay in the US. 

If the government were enforcing the rules equally and to everyone, then I'd have no problem with Novak not being allowed to enter the country.  But when the government at its whim enforces the rules on some but not others, we end up with a banana republic.

[+ WilliamM]

Novak Djokovic would have been wise to completely education himself on the covid19 vaccine with experts in Western Europe.  Novak does appear uneducated.

[samhexum]

On 8/25/2022 at 11:04 AM, WilliamM said:

Novak is not going to the US Open

And I'm supposed to care? why?  THIS is a much more important story:

Matteo Berrettini, the model tennis player bringing his good looks to New York

https://nypost.com/2022/08/27/meet-matteo-berrettini-the-model-tennis-player-bringing-his-good-looks-to-new-york/

I'D LIKE TO KISS HIS TROPHY

 

The Roman native made history as the first Italian male to make it to the quarterfinals of all four Grand Slam events.

His runway career took flight when a Hugo Boss exec saw him being interviewed after losing at Wimbledon in 2021.

“I think one of the reasons why they chose me is also my personality. I hope it is, that’s what they told me,” he said. “So I’m glad this thing is coming out when I play.”

As far as the topic on hand is concerned, I'm so sick of vaccine politics, I couldn't care less.  I will say that I think it's different for an individual in a  non-team sport to make the decision for himself than for the Kyrie Irvings, Nolan Arenados, & Paul Goldschmidts who are paid million$ to play a TEAM sport and then force their teams to play short-handed whenever they're in an area that won't allow unvaccinated people to play. Selfish, much?

Edited August 27, 2022 by samhexum
just for the hell of it

[+ Charlie]

12 hours ago, BSR said:

Technically no, the government isn't locking people up or putting a gun to their head to "force" them to get the vaccine.  But they are, for example, expelling people from the military for refusing the jab.  Maybe taking away a person's job/career isn't your definition of "force," but it is some serious pressure.  On the flip side, hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens refuse the vaxx yet are allowed to enter and stay in the US. 

If the government were enforcing the rules equally and to everyone, then I'd have no problem with Novak not being allowed to enter the country.  But when the government at its whim enforces the rules on some but not others, we end up with a banana republic.

Those who volunteer to serve in the military give up a lot of personal choices, including what outfit they will wear, where they will live, and yes, the right to pick and choose what vaccinations they are required to have. Ever since George Washington required that all Revolutionary soldiers be vaccinated against smallpox this has been so--it is not some arbitrary new practice.

Rules are obviously different for non-citizens who enter the country illegally (i.e., without the proper documentation for immigration) versus non-citizens who wish to enter the country legally for a visit (i.e., with a visa). Free COVID vaccination is available only to citizens, so neither group is offered the choice of vaccination or not on arrival. Legal visitors like Novak cannot get a visa to make the trip in the first place, while illegal visitors are not allowed to travel freely once they are caught.

 

[+ WilliamM]

3 hours ago, Charlie said:

Those who volunteer to serve in the military give up a lot of personal choices, including what outfit they will wear, where they will live, and yes, the right to pick and choose what vaccinations they are required to have. Ever since George Washington required that all Revolutionary soldiers be vaccinated against smallpox this has been so--it is not some arbitrary new practice.

Rules are obviously different for non-citizens who enter the country illegally (i.e., without the proper documentation for immigration) versus non-citizens who wish to enter the country legally for a visit (i.e., with a visa). Free COVID vaccination is available only to citizens, so neither group is offered the choice of vaccination or not on arrival. Legal visitors like Novak cannot get a visa to make the trip in the first place, while illegal visitors are not allowed to travel freely once they are caught.

 

Those of us who were drafted in the nineteenth sixties  realized getting vaccinated  was the freaking at the bottom of our list of problems.

[+ WilliamM]

4 hours ago, samhexum said:

And I'm supposed to care? why?  THIS is a much more important story:

Matteo Berrettini, the model tennis player bringing his good looks to New York

https://nypost.com/2022/08/27/meet-matteo-berrettini-the-model-tennis-player-bringing-his-good-looks-to-new-york/

I'D LIKE TO KISS HIS TROPHY

 

The Roman native made history as the first Italian male to make it to the quarterfinals of all four Grand Slam events.

His runway career took flight when a Hugo Boss exec saw him being interviewed after losing at Wimbledon in 2021.

“I think one of the reasons why they chose me is also my personality. I hope it is, that’s what they told me,” he said. “So I’m glad this thing is coming out when I play.”

As far as the topic on hand is concerned, I'm so sick of vaccine politics, I couldn't care less.  I will say that I think it's different for an individual in a  non-team sport to make the decision for himself than for the Kyrie Irvings, Nolan Arenados, & Paul Goldschmidts who are paid million$ to play a TEAM sport and then force their teams to play short-handed whenever they're in an area that won't allow unvaccinated people to play. Selfish, much?

Respectfully, do you want me to check with you next time I start a thread to see if "you care."  Mostly kidding.

[BSR]

7 hours ago, Charlie said:

Those who volunteer to serve in the military give up a lot of personal choices, including what outfit they will wear, where they will live, and yes, the right to pick and choose what vaccinations they are required to have. Ever since George Washington required that all Revolutionary soldiers be vaccinated against smallpox this has been so--it is not some arbitrary new practice.

Rules are obviously different for non-citizens who enter the country illegally (i.e., without the proper documentation for immigration) versus non-citizens who wish to enter the country legally for a visit (i.e., with a visa). Free COVID vaccination is available only to citizens, so neither group is offered the choice of vaccination or not on arrival. Legal visitors like Novak cannot get a visa to make the trip in the first place, while illegal visitors are not allowed to travel freely once they are caught.

 

I was not arguing the right or wrong of forcing members of the military to get vaccinated, simply that they were being forced to do so.  @Bucky argued that the federal government is not forcing anyone to get the vaccine, which is why I brought up the example of the military.

The vaccine is indeed offered to illegal aliens, but many refuse (~30%).  They are allowed to stay in the US nonetheless.  Joe Biden could force vaccine-refusers to remain in Mexico (sound familiar?) while their case is adjudicated if he were so concerned about public health, but that would discourage future illegals from coming.  Oh no, can't have that!  Instead, Biden wants to maximize illegal immigration because he views it as a "gift," public health be damned.  "illegal visitors are not allowed to travel freely once they are caught."  Hmm, this immigration attorney disagrees with you.

In sum, Joe Biden enforces the vaccine requirement on unvaxxed foreign visitors to maintain the appearance that he is "doing something" about Covid whereas Biden knowingly, willingly, and all too gladly allows hundreds of thousands of unvaxxed illegal aliens to enter and stay in the US because apparently public health is overrated, or something.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

MODERATOR REMINDER:  This thread is about Novak not playing in the US Open.  Let's move away from political commentary and return to discussing Novak.  

[+ Charlie]

I have taken my response to BSR's political opinions to a private message to him. Unfortunately, it is hard to discuss Novak without bringing in politics, since his problems now are related to his conflicts with governments rather than with other players.

[BSR]

I agree with @Charlie, it's hard to avoid politics when you believe that the motivation for banning unvaxxed foreigners is 100% political.

If the reason for the ban is not motivated by politics but instead public health, can anyone present the science for why one unvaccinated tennis player (with 2x natural immunity, btw) threatens public health whereas hundreds of thousands of unvaxxed illegal aliens pose zero risk?

[+ WilliamM]

I  started this thread and totally disagree with the polical discussion

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

15 hours ago, Charlie said:

I have taken my response to BSR's political opinions to a private message to him. Unfortunately, it is hard to discuss Novak without bringing in politics, since his problems now are related to his conflicts with governments rather than with other players.

 

1 hour ago, BSR said:

I agree with @Charlie, it's hard to avoid politics when you believe that the motivation for banning unvaxxed foreigners is 100% political.

If the reason for the ban is not motivated by politics but instead public health, can anyone present the science for why one unvaccinated tennis player (with 2x natural immunity, btw) threatens public health whereas hundreds of thousands of unvaxxed illegal aliens pose zero risk?

Then start a new thread in the Political Issues Forum to discuss it there.  This isn't the place for it.  

[BSR]

In MTF (men's tennis forum), a lot of members like to point out that Novak is the only player who has refused the vaccine, but that's not true.  Novak just gets the most attention because of his ranking and number of Slams.  Tennys Sandgren is unvaxxed but could play since he's a US citizen.  Unfortunately for him, his ranking dropped so low (currently #426, once as high as #41) that he can't even get entry into the qualifying, forget the main draw.  Pierre-Hugues Herbert could have gotten into qualifying with a singles ranking of #234 and into the main draw of men's doubles w/a doubles ranking of #28, but as an unvaxxed French citizen, he couldn't get a visa to enter the US.

[+ Charlie]

BTW, what happened to Sandgren? He seemed to drop out of sight everywhere. Is he even playing challengers?