? Get your Flu Shot ! ?

[+ FrankR]

Speaking of personal choice, check out the below article:

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/10/22/spike-in-south-korea-flu-shot-deaths-fuelling-vaccine-doubts

 

Notice that the flu vaccine was manufactured by reputable companies, including GC Pharma, SK Bioscience, and Il-Yang Pharmaceutical Co, along with France’s Sanofi and Britain’s GlaxoSmithKline. Distributors include LG Chem and Boryung Biopharma, a unit of Boryung Pharm.

 

" The inoculation program was suspended for three weeks after it was discovered that some five million doses, which need to be refrigerated, had been exposed to room temperature while being transported to a medical facility."

 

A refrigeration problem can exist in any facility.

 

"Officials said 8.3 million people have been inoculated with the free flu vaccine since it resumed on October 13, with about 350 cases of adverse reactions reported. "

 

Officials have not found any direct link between the vaccinations and the deaths.

 

If anything, the article reinforces the concept that a person should have a choice whether or not to be vaccinated.

It is sad that human error resulted in these deaths.

 

That is the crux of the article: human error in the handling and storage of the vaccine may be at fault. As you indicated, preliminary investigation indicated no link between the vaccine and the deaths noted. The vaccine was manufactured by reputable companies and no toxic elements were found in the vaccine itself.

 

You can come to harm due to human error while driving. That doesn’t mean the vehicle is at fault, nor does it stop you from driving, does it?

[+ FrankR]

What I totally believe is it comes down to personal choice.

 

Speaking of personal choice

You guys love harping on about personal choice! Will you take responsibility for the outcome of your personal choice? What if that personal choice results in a public health emergency?

 

You choose not to get the flu vaccine. You get the flu and spread it to your elderly aunt Joan. She visits her friend Sarah in a retirement village. Sarah spreads it to her friends during communal meals. 50 people die - you are the source of their illness AND responsible! How do you feel about that? Will you attend all 50 funerals and explain your personal choice to their families?

 

“That will never happen!” you say. Well it happened in Chicago and Philadelphia in 2018 and 2019 with the measles. Kids got sick. Kids die from the measles and related complications. Google it.

 

What is even worse is that you are actively trying to convince others that your personal choice is the right choice and thereby persuading them not to get the flu shot. Never let inconvenient facts get in the way of your personal agenda, huh. Fact: vaccines are not perfect but are safe and save lives. If you care about your friends and neighbors you not attempt to dissuade them from getting the flu shot and will get the flu shot yourself.

Edited October 22, 2020 by FrankR

[+ sniper]

Well under half the people who should get the flu shot do so. That makes the number of fly cases vastly higher than they would be if everyone got the shot, because full vaccination even when the vaccine isn't perfect, breaks up chains of infection.

[+ FrankR]

I agree with taking responsibility but the vaccine does not work 100%.

 

The flu vaccine only saves the lives of a few people. Many people who have the vaccine still catch the flu and die from it, so why would a Covid vaccine be any different.

 

I take my personal responsibility seriously and am most likely better informed than the majority.

 

So NO I am not going to take a vaccine without doing my due diligence and I also take my infection control seriously and take serious consideration as to where I go and who I visit during this crisis.

 

Not sure why this thread keeps going, not sure about you but nothing you say will convince me otherwise, and I am pretty sure you are the same.’’

Fact: vaccines are not perfect but are safe and save lives. If you care about your friends and neighbors you not attempt to dissuade them from getting the flu shot and will get the flu shot yourself.

 

[+ FrankR]

If I care about my friends and neighbours ??

 

You do not know me, you have no idea what i care about.

 

You are not permitted to judge me and discuss in an open forum the slanderous comment that I do not care about my friends and neighbours.

 

May I take this time to remind you that the infection rates in Australia are WAY lower than the infection rates in the USA.

 

Maybe that is because we do care about our friends and neighbours!!!!!

 

One of our states Victoria has had 700 deaths, a US state of similar population has had 14000 deaths.

 

Covid is not a competition but if it were , us Australians are winning on the numbers , you have not even left the starting gates of this race !!!!

 

ever heard the comment - people in glass houses should not throw stones

Fact: vaccines are not perfect but are safe and save lives.

 

Your comments in this thread is pretty clear and speak for themself. If you continue to try and dissuade others from getting the flu shot I will simply keep pointing you to that fact.

 

That is not a personal attack or a judgment.

 

??‍♂️

Edited October 23, 2020 by FrankR

[+ FrankR]

It is my opinion that someone pushing a vaccine onto someone without that person doing their due diligence to the risks, anyone who gets paralysed from a vaccine would not refer to them as safe, and they would then consider their life not to be safe, but possibly ruined.

 

If you continue to try and persuade others from getting a unsafe vaccine I will simply keep pointing to you the facts.

 

This is not a personal attack or a judgement !!!

 

Two can play at that game!!!

 

I had offered an olive branch by saying that neither of us would change our point of view, we can either play nice with this or we can play dirty.

 

Up to you!!! If you want to keep playing dirty, I can too !!!

That is exactly it: you keep offering opinions while I keep pointing to the facts.

 

You keep trying to scare people by saying things like: anyone who gets paralysed from a vaccine would not refer to them as safe

 

Who are they? How many of them are there? What do you base this on?

 

A game?? This is not a game!!! The health and wellness of communities are at stake. Anti-vaxxers are doing actual harm. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-48585036

 

I will keep saying it: Fact: vaccines are not perfect but are safe and save lives.

[coriolis888]

 

Dude, the case-fatality rate of influenza varies from year to year, but is almost never under 0.1%. The vaccine also protects other people in addition to the vaccinee. With 8.3 million people vaccinated, many thousands of lives were saved. Your thinking is completely bereft of rational thought. Would you mind trying to use at least 5 neurons when you come up with an argument?

 

 

Does it make you feel good to launch an unwarranted personal attack at a fellow poster on an anonymous forum like you did as quoted above?

 

Going back over some of your recent posts it would be easy to ridicule some of the things you wrote, particularly your several posts about the hotel clerk you claimed to have recently met.

 

Although some forum responses to your infatuation were kind and expressed caution with the hotel clerk, do not think that many thought your assumptions about the hotel clerk were "completely bereft of rational thought" (to quote you).

[coriolis888]

 

 

You guys love harping on about personal choice! Will you take responsibility for the outcome of your personal choice? What if that personal choice results in a public health emergency?

 

snip

 

What is even worse is that you are actively trying to convince others that your personal choice is the right choice and thereby persuading them not to get the flu shot. Never let inconvenient facts get in the way of your personal agenda, huh. Fact: vaccines are not perfect but are safe and save lives. If you care about your friends and neighbors you not attempt to dissuade them from getting the flu shot and will get the flu shot yourself.

 

 

You misread postings to this thread.

 

You are incorrect with your comment - "What is even worse is that you are actively trying to convince others that your personal choice is the right choice and thereby persuading them not to get the flu shot."

 

Go to post number 27 above. There you will see that I did not attempt to convince anyone not to take a vaccine. I merely reported my own personal experience with a vaccine. I made my post in response to a poster who claimed to be a physician and who posted inaccurate information about influenza vaccines. My post cited an article from the CDC.

 

For your convenience, I will copy a portion of my above-referenced post (number 27)_ and how it ended in hopes that you will not continue to misread posts made to this thread.

 

Below is how my thread number 27 (upthread) ended:

 

"Dear readers, just because I got ill from a flu shot does not mean others should avoid the shot. As the CDC article states, it is a rare occurrence to get ill. Statistically, those taking a flu vaccine should be fine. Just be aware of the possibility of an adverse reaction."

[Guest]

...

Although some forum responses to your infatuation were kind and expressed caution with the hotel clerk, do not think that many thought your assumptions about the hotel clerk were "completely bereft of rational thought" (to quote you).

...

Go to post number 27 above....

 

"Dear readers, just because I got ill from a flu shot...

I've made it quite clear in my posts regarding Lindoro that, while I consider him gorgeous, I consider a successful relationship a long-shot, although one that I feel is very much worth at least pursuing. I'm definitely not imagining that he's been flirty with me from the moment our eyes met, right down to our last date when he wore very revealing clothing. I've had texts with loving hearts almost every day including today. While nothing would make me happier than were things to work out with him, my eyes are fully open to the fact that he lives with someone else and that we haven't done anything more than kiss.

I do not have all of my eggs in one basket, so to speak. In 5-6 weeks, the Mexican medical student is going to take me on a road trip in central Mexico. On our road trip in southern Utah last month, he looked me in the eye and told me "Me encatas, me encantas, me encantas!" (I adore you, I adore you, I adore you). But that's an even bigger long-shot since he's trying to get into a neurosurgery residency program, and getting into one in the LA area would be a bit of a miracle (he admitted that he'd go to Germany if he had to). I'm also meeting a handsome Afghani student next week, who's getting degrees in Economics and Computer Science this year. And there are others.

I don't have all of my eggs in one basket. Maybe Lindoro's the golden egg, though?

[coriolis888]

 

I've made it quite clear in my posts regarding Lindoro that, while I consider him gorgeous, I consider a successful relationship a long-shot, although one that I feel is very much worth at least pursuing. I'm definitely not imagining that he's been flirty with me from the moment our eyes met, right down to our last date when he wore very revealing clothing. I've had texts with loving hearts almost every day including today. While nothing would make me happier than were things to work out with him, my eyes are fully open to the fact that he lives with someone else and that we haven't done anything more than kiss.

I do not have all of my eggs in one basket, so to speak. In 5-6 weeks, the Mexican medical student is going to take me on a road trip in central Mexico. On our road trip in southern Utah last month, he looked me in the eye and told me "Me encatas, me encantas, me encantas!" (I adore you, I adore you, I adore you). But that's an even bigger long-shot since he's trying to get into a neurosurgery residency program, and getting into one in the LA area would be a bit of a miracle (he admitted that he'd go to Germany if he had to). I'm also meeting a handsome Afghani student next week, who's getting degrees in Economics and Computer Science this year. And there are others.

I don't have all of my eggs in one basket. Maybe Lindoro's the golden egg, though?

 

PEACE!

[Mjonis]

My father's wife's sister got Guillain-Barre syndrome from a flu vaccine about 2 years ago.

 

Now, are vaccines relatively (mostly) safe? Sure.

Sucks to be the few that it's not.

 

But then again colonoscopies and any drug/procedure has a certain margin of nasty (even lethal) side effects. IMO, it should be up to the person and their doctor to discuss these things and decide for themselves.

[MikeBiDude]

PEACE!

Or....Pizza!

[josh282282]

The flu vaccine only saves the lives of a few people. Many people who have the vaccine still catch the flu and die from it, so why would a Covid vaccine be any different.

 

My brothers, once again, the above quoted man is wrong. There is actual scientific evidence that the influenza vaccine saves lives, prevents hospitalizations, and averts suffering.

 

From the CDC

"Influenza vaccination prevented an estimated 7.52 million illnesses, 3.69 million medical visits, 105,000 hospitalizations, and 6,300 deaths due to influenza during the 2019-2020 season. "

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden-averted/2019-2020.htm

 

To all people still uncertain about the flu vaccination:

Please dont listen to the Pro-Plaugue Personal-Choice Screamers.

Get your flu vaccination asap.

Be a hero to everyone.

We need you.

 

Love to all.

[D21howie]

I got mine flu shot last week

[Guest]

...

You are not permitted to judge me...

[josh282282]

I spring into action take a handful of my go to natural supplement, and the next day I am fantastic again.

 

I know exactly what is in the supplement, it is approved by the FDA made by a reputable company in North America and manufactured with the highest integrity.

 

As a scientist, I am trained to always have a healthy skepticism of medical claims till it is properly vetted.

PLEASE share with us on this board the name of this FDA supplement that we might logically evaluate the claims using scientific strategies.

I'm not picking on you. I ask this of all scientific claims made.

If you refuse, I am very fearful it will be seen as evidence this product doesn't exist and your claims are bunk.

 

I mean, what's the secret? If it helps you, dont you want it to potentially help others?

 

Others on this board: do you want to see what this supplement is?

Edited October 25, 2020 by josh282282

[+ keroscenefire]

I got my flu shot on Friday. Definitely want to avoid getting sick this upcoming year.

[+ FrankR]

https://www.modere.com/productdetail/immune-health-60ct/?referralCode=2478453

Wait, Modere...that name sounds familiar. Now I remember! They were warned by the FDA and FTC to stop their deceptive behavior in promoting their products as immune boosting!!?

 

https://www.consumerlab.com/recalls/14373/ten-multi-level-marketing-companies-warned-for-coronavirus-and-deceptive-earnings-claims/

 

 

I believe you said this product is FDA approved? Would you care to correct that statement? I agree people should be informed: If our members go to the doctor or pharmacist for flu jab - do ask them the question what are the risks of not getting the flu shot!!!

I know exactly what is in the supplement, it is approved by the FDA made by a reputable company in North America and manufactured with the highest integrity.

 

Whatever path you take, make sure you are informed, if you go to a dr or pharmacist for a flu jab - do ask the question what are the risks!!!

Modere is a multi level marketing company - if you really think they are reputable - watch this clip:

 

It is important to note that the FTC and FDA's warning that I linked to above also talks about earnings. These companies were actively encouraging their members to profit from people's fears during the Covid-19 crisis to sell more of these product with claims that they could protect people. To actively recruit people that have lost their jobs by trying to convince them that they could make a living selling these products. When you actively take advantage of people's fears and desperation...that, sir, is not reputable!

Edited October 25, 2020 by FrankR

[+ FrankR]

 

I get that you do not agree with me, BUT do you have to be so offensive about it.

 

How about just scrolling past, this is starting to look like a vendetta against me!! I was challenged to name the product which has kept me free from flu’s and colds for the last 12 years, and I did.

 

So how about you blunt your fingernails and stop scratching my face like a childish kid having a scrap in the sandpit !!!!

In your own words:

This is a forum, where people can speak and share their points of view.

 

Sounds to me that you would like to censor free speech.

Instead of calling me names ("a childish kid") perhaps you would care to answer some of the questions I have asked in this thread. Then maybe we can come to a meeting of the minds and drop the back and forth.

[thedanNYC]

Show me a company that has always run clean of any accusation.

 

Johnson and Johnson a well known household brand choose to remove cancer forming ingredients from their baby powder a few years ago.

 

There are lots of examples like that.

 

I get that you do not agree with me, BUT do you have to be so offensive about it.

 

How about just scrolling past, this is starting to look like a vendetta against me!!

 

I don't see this as a vendetta against you, and @FrankR's post has nothing to do with whether companies always run clean of any accusations.

 

You told people to do their "due diligence." You told people that when you feel like you might be getting sick you take a supplement that "is approved by the FDA made by a reputable company in North America and manufactured with the highest integrity." You then provided a link to Modere's website when asked what that FDA-approved supplement is. That claim can't simply be "scrolled past" in a thread made to recommend flu vaccination, which you've hijacked to recommend against vaccination just because you haven't "succumbed" to the flu in 12 years (apparently, you think, because you've been taking those supplements).

 

Well, congratulations on being so persuasive. People followed your recommendation. They did their due diligence, and they looked up Modere's supplements. Unfortunately, it turns out that the FDA exposed Modere for making unsupported claims about the effectiveness of their supplements, especially when it comes to treating COVID-19. In other words, the folks at Modere are so unscrupulous that they preyed on people's fear of the coronavirus to make a buck without putting any effort into verifying that their products actually work.

 

Anyway, back to our regular programming folks. "Supplements" from unscrupulous companies that get bitch-slapped by the FDA are not a substitute for a flu vaccine if you want to improve the odds of not getting the flu (or, if you do get the flu, of having a more manageable case than you would have had otherwise).

[Guest]

https://www.modere.com/productdetail/immune-health-60ct/?referralCode=2478453

Wow. You're literally confusing an advertisement with a scientific study. Wow. And it looks like it was pulled from the market, too. Wow.

[thedanNYC]

I made a personal testimonial, about the benefits to me of that product. I did not spruik it until someone chose to request me to name it.

 

You invoked the weight of an alleged FDA approval to legitimize Modere's products. But it turns out the FDA (again, an agency you brought up) did not approve the product, and it actually asked Modere to stop making their unsupported claims that their products work.

 

Your reaction to that is not, "Man, I'm surprised. I really thought they were legitimate. I need to look into this for myself since I'm such a huge proponent of using supplements." No. Instead, your reaction is basically "I gave a testimonial. The products work because I say they work. Never mind what the FDA said." That's a bit odd.

Edited October 25, 2020 by thedanNYC

[mike carey]

Has the pizza @MikeBiDude ordered been delivered yet?

[josh282282]

Hi westernsyd

Your supplement "Immune Health" from the company Modere has listed several ingredients: echinacea, thyme, and Hawthorne berry.

 

Let's review these 3 components.

 

1) Echinacea

has been debunked as a successful remedy to the common cold. See the following scientific research:

Barrett BP et al. Treatment of the common cold with unrefined echinacea: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Ann Intern Med 2002 Dec 17; 137:939-46.

 

From Medscape, a robust physician textbook, that is excellent in producing up to date medical information found:

"It seems very unlikely that echinacea effectively treats the common cold."

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/449051

 

How can echinacea be helpful against viruses? It's already proven not to work against the cold viruses, which there are hundreds/thousands. Where is the scientific evidence it helps against influenza?

 

2) Thyme - I looked & looked and my apologies but couldn't find one shred of scientific evidence that researched thyme using the scientific method. Please provide some. Or provide just one.

 

3) Hawthorne Berry.

The FDA is cracking down on herbal companies who promote & sell this compound.

https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/natures-mojo-inc-11122015

And another one:

https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/herbal-healer-academy-inc-570957-09122019

 

And continuing

You reported that the supplement is FDA "approved".

"I know exactly what is in the supplement, it is approved by the FDA made by a reputable company in North America and manufactured with the highest integrity." written by westernsyd

 

You report utter bullshit.

From the FDAs own website:

FDA is not authorized to review dietary supplement products for safety and effectiveness before they are marketed.

https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/what-you-need-know-about-dietary-supplements.

 

 

TO OTHERS STILL ON THE FENCE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY SHOULD GET THE FLU VACCINE:

Westernsyd is making what scientists call a Cause and Effect Error.

 

Many, many thousands of years ago, as we lived in Mother Africa, we heard roosters crowing at EVERY dawn. We therefore thought at that time that the roosters crowing at dawn BROUGHT UP the sun. We now dont think such nonsense as obviously we see now that these bronze age people were making a Cause and Effect Error. Just because one event follows another, doesn't mean the first event caused the second.

 

Just cuz westernsyd takes this (nonsense) supplement and then feels good doesn't mean the supplement was directly responsible for making him safe from influenza. The events were random. The supplement did not do anything. SO, dont be like him and FOOLISHLY make this error. Use the evidence we HAVE: flu vaccination can save your life. It can save the lives of those you love.

 

Get vaccinated AS! SOON! AS! POSSIBLE!

This is NO year to get both influenza AND Covid-19.

Love to all.

Edited October 26, 2020 by josh282282

[MikeBiDude]

Hi westernsyd

Your supplement "Immune Health" from the company Modere has listed several ingredients: echinacea, thyme, and Hawthorne berry.

 

Let's review these 3 components.

 

1) Echinacea

has been debunked as a successful remedy to the common cold. See the following scientific research:

Barrett BP et al. Treatment of the common cold with unrefined echinacea: A randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Ann Intern Med 2002 Dec 17; 137:939-46.

 

From Medscape, a robust physician textbook, that is excellent in producing up to date medical information found:

"It seems very unlikely that echinacea effectively treats the common cold."

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/449051

 

How can echinacea be helpful against viruses? It's already proven not to work against the cold viruses, which there are hundreds/thousands. Where is the scientific evidence it helps against influenza?

 

2) Thyme - I looked & looked and my apologies but couldn't find one shred of scientific evidence that researched thyme using the scientific method. Please provide some. Or provide just one.

 

3) Hawthorne Berry.

The FDA is cracking down on herbal companies who promote & sell this compound.

https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/natures-mojo-inc-11122015

And another one:

https://www.fda.gov/inspections-compliance-enforcement-and-criminal-investigations/warning-letters/herbal-healer-academy-inc-570957-09122019

 

And continuing

You reported that the supplement is FDA "approved".

"I know exactly what is in the supplement, it is approved by the FDA made by a reputable company in North America and manufactured with the highest integrity." written by westernsyd

 

You report utter bullshit.

From the FDAs own website:

FDA is not authorized to review dietary supplement products for safety and effectiveness before they are marketed.

https://www.fda.gov/food/buy-store-serve-safe-food/what-you-need-know-about-dietary-supplements.

 

 

TO OTHERS STILL ON THE FENCE ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THEY SHOULD GET THE FLU VACCINE:

Westernsyd is making what scientists call a Cause and Effect Error.

 

Many, many thousands of years ago, as we lived in Mother Africa, we heard roosters crowing at EVERY dawn. We therefore thought at that time that the roosters crowing at dawn BROUGHT UP the sun. We now dont think such nonsense as obviously we see now that these bronze age people were making a Cause and Effect Error. Just because one event follows another, doesn't mean the first event caused the second.

 

Just cuz westernsyd takes this (nonsense) supplement and then feels good doesn't mean the supplement was directly responsible for making him safe from influenza. The events were random. The supplement did not do anything. SO, dont be like him and FOOLISHLY make this error. Use the evidence we HAVE: flu vaccination can save your life. It can save the lives of those you love.

 

Get vaccinated AS! SOON! AS! POSSIBLE!

This is NO year to get both influenza AND Covid-19.

Love to all.

It appears @westernsyd has deleted all his posts in this thread, so don’t expect a reply.