American Airlines - We Don’t Care

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

LOL, Karl Rove? You must really be a repressed republican homosexual to bring him into this conversation. But that’s always been kind of what many people have always thought about you, because you have always been just so… uninvolved in our community which you make your dollars from.

 

I don't know whether he is republican or not, but I know from personal experience, he is not a repressed homosexual.

[Guest]

American Airlines said it would receive $5.8 billion as part of the PPP deal, with more than $4 billion in the form of grants and the remaining $1.7 billion as a low-interest loans from the government for COVID-19.

So? Would you prefer they simply ground the planes and furlough all the employees?

[xyz48B]

This be feisty!

 

Although I applaud the people for wanting distance, on a plane it makes little difference. It’s a petri dish. If the virus is there, it’s going to circulate.

 

That said, some people might also have no choice but to fly right now. I have some compassion for that. I don’t necessarily automatically assume that everyone is selfishly or moronically flying despite the virus. There’s any number of valid reasons to fly even in this pandemic.

 

There is no shortage of stories about airlines that treat passengers as cargo, not customers. But I also have sympathy for flight attendants too. I can only imagine it’s a thankless job. And right now with the state of air travel and the fear of the virus being recirculated inside a plane, it’s an extremely stressful job, I’m sure, to be sure.

 

Maybe we can all step back and reframe the issue through a positive lens. Instead of assuming the worst, can we assume the best?

 

Admin Note: Picture of child removed. No posting images of children.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Cooper

[+ azdr0710]

has American offered a response to the NY Times article??.....I looked around, but I'm not a social media kinda guy......

 

the premium-priced exit-row seats are touchy......I can imagine the younger and quicker passengers sensing a payday and making a beeline to the four or eight (??) empty exit-row seats and defending it as "social distancing" while older, less-agile, more vulnerable passengers are left behind......if nearly every standard/basic seat was full and only one or two exit-row seats were occupied, moving three or four up to the exit-row won't solve anything......

 

we need to hear both sides......that picture of the disgusted-looking guy leaning his head against the seat in front of him seems melodramatic and may not even have to do with this episode......

 

call me cynical, but I'd like to hear the response from American.....have the airlines given up on social distancing in "basic economy"?

[Lazarus]

I saw a report the other day about the air that circulates on a plane. I think it was on CNN. According to this report, the filtration system on a jet works quite well & the risk is low for contracting Coronavirus

[+ RJD]

I saw a report the other day about the air that circulates on a plane. I think it was on CNN. According to this report, the filtration system on a jet works quite well & the risk is low for contracting Coronavirus

 

I don’t think the risk is the air filtration as much as it is direct exposure from someone sitting next to you unmasked while eating, drinking, and touching common surfaces like armrests, restroom door latches, and overhead bin handles.

[Guest]

Let’s not forget bigger context...two days ago, United Airlines out 36,000 employees on notice of potential furlough If travel doesn’t pick up. That’s 40% of their employees. And some guy is arguing about the exit row? Imagine what it will be like when airlines have to charge the full cost of operations to stay in business...

[Monarchy79]

Let’s not forget bigger context...two days ago, United Airlines out 36,000 employees on notice of potential furlough If travel doesn’t pick up. That’s 40% of their employees. And some guy is arguing about the exit row? Imagine what it will be like when airlines have to charge the full cost of operations to stay in business...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2020/07/08/united-airlines-got-billions-from-the-government-paid-executives-millions-and-now-could-downsize-almost-half-of-its-us-workforce/amp/

[+ pitman]

Air travel is rapidly becoming obsolete. In addition to the health risks to travelers and airline personnel it is environmentally unsustainable. Most business travel is unnecessary given the technological alternatives. Travel for pleasure is out of the question for more and more people as they lose their jobs and the economy tanks. International travel, whether for business or pleasure, will disappear for Americans as the rest of the world takes measures to protect itself from plague-spreading residents of a dysfunctional pariah state. This is the new reality. Get used to it.

[Todd Jenkins]

Air travel is rapidly becoming obsolete. In addition to the health risks to travelers and airline personnel it is environmentally unsustainable. Most business travel is unnecessary given the technological alternatives. Travel for pleasure is out of the question for more and more people as they lose their jobs and the economy tanks. International travel, whether for business or pleasure, will disappear for Americans as the rest of the world takes measures to protect itself from plague-spreading residents of a dysfunctional pariah state. This is the new reality. Get used to it.

 

Wow, Thanks Mr. DOOM AND GLOOM. I truly believe we will get through this and get back to some semblance of normalcy sometime. The countries will find a way for us in a 'dysfunctional pariah state' to visit again. And, I truly believe we will find a cure / vaccine / treatment sooner than later. Too many people are working on it.

[+ pitman]

Wow, Thanks Mr. DOOM AND GLOOM. I truly believe we will get through this and get back to some semblance of normalcy sometime. The countries will find a way for us in a 'dysfunctional pariah state' to visit again. And, I truly believe we will find a cure / vaccine / treatment sooner than later. Too many people are working on it.

Its good to be optimistic, but this is the reality as I see it.

[Todd Jenkins]

Its good to be optimistic, but this is the reality as I see it.

 

I am typically a 'glass half-full' kind of person – I can't imagine living in a world where everything is seen through a lens of doom and gloom...

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Let’s not forget bigger context...two days ago, United Airlines out 36,000 employees on notice of potential furlough If travel doesn’t pick up. That’s 40% of their employees. And some guy is arguing about the exit row? Imagine what it will be like when airlines have to charge the full cost of operations to stay in business...

 

This. Most people are clueless as to what jet fuel and ops costs are for a major airline.

 

All they care about is a $200 coast-to-coast fare, then bitch about delays, luggage issues and seat space.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Air travel is rapidly becoming obsolete. In addition to the health risks to travelers and airline personnel it is environmentally unsustainable. Most business travel is unnecessary given the technological alternatives. Travel for pleasure is out of the question for more and more people as they lose their jobs and the economy tanks. International travel, whether for business or pleasure, will disappear for Americans as the rest of the world takes measures to protect itself from plague-spreading residents of a dysfunctional pariah state. This is the new reality. Get used to it.

 

Air travel will never become obsolete. It's too efficient.

 

What we're dealing with at the moment is the new now, not the new forever.

[Todd Jenkins]

Air travel will never become obsolete. It's too efficient.

 

What we're dealing with at the moment is the new now, not the new forever.

Thank you!!

[Monarchy79]

This. Most people are clueless as to what jet fuel and ops costs are for a major airline.

 

All they care about is a $200 coast-to-coast fare, then bitch about delays, luggage issues and seat space.

 

Most people are also clueless to the billions in subsidies and support airlines receive from the Government.

 

Many of the customers are cheap and entitled, but let’s not lose focus on the CEOs,Board of Directors, and Executives who are taking Hundreds of Millions of dollars for themselves while the airline workers are being laid off....

[Monarchy79]

The cutbacks, lay offs, and “changes”, are simply done to secure the multi billion dollar retirement packages, and pensions for the executives of these airlines, most of whom DON’T FLY COMMERCIAL....

 

???

[mike carey]

What we're dealing with at the moment is the new now, not the new forever.

Absolutely, but we don't yet know what the new forever, or even the new next year will look like. Domestic aviation in large (physically) countries like the US and Australia may well recover, international aviation will do so, if it does, at a different rate. I can't see travel to or from the south-west Pacific happening in the forseeable future, but I hope I'm wrong.

[xyz48B]

What we're dealing with at the moment is the new now, not the new forever.

I would go so far as to say the temporary now. But we’ve grown so accustomed to the immediacy of the present that everything is now. All that matters is now. We’re bombarded from every angle that every decision we make has lasting, permanent consequences. Otherwise we wouldn’t be driven to instant gratification. The motivation behind instant gratification is the notion that scarcity is the norm and so we best maximize opportunity right now, no matter what. Tomorrow will be hellacious if we don’t. There’s only one chance and it’s now.

[xyz48B]

As long as there’s a demand, there’s market. If there are customers who want international travel, airlines will provide – either old or new. Before all this happened, Ryanair was discussing plans for economy flights to Europe. Of course that’s on hold right now, but the point illustrates there will always be someone who is willing to meet the demand. Some customers wouldn’t dream of a Ryanair experience to any destination and of course they’re not going to fly transatlantic in such accommodations. But others will, and economies of scale will make it profitable for such outfits, just as some will demand luxury good airfares as a status symbol.

[+ keroscenefire]

I'm kind of in the middle of this issue. A lot of airlines were making record profits for several years previous to the pandemic and should've been saving that money instead of doing stock buybacks to enrich themselves. American was one of the most egregious airlines, spending $13 billion in stock buybacks and doing very little saving when times were good. The other big airlines also did lots of stock buybacks but they also did save a significant amount of money as well and are thus better able to weather the pandemic storm.

 

And frankly it's those airlines that I'm more likely to go with. Southwest is operating its flights with middle seats empty until the end of September at least. Delta I believe is doing the same. The CDC actually says that flying is not as risky for COVID as we think because of planes' air filtration and circulation systems. They say the real risk is being within close contact (six feet or so) or an infectious traveler. I am considering making a trip to NYC in September and will certainly choose the airlines that socially distance their passengers.

 

I fully understand that flying during the pandemic entails some risk regardless. But airlines have been increasingly treating their passengers worse and worse. If I'm gong to spend my money on a flight, I'll do it with an airline that is at least trying to mitigate the risks to the health of their staff and passengers by following the CDC guidelines.

[Guest]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/jackkelly/2020/07/08/united-airlines-got-billions-from-the-government-paid-executives-millions-and-now-could-downsize-almost-half-of-its-us-workforce/amp/

Ok, let’s do a little math. Last year, UAL’s payroll expense was $33,000,000/day. Using the article you linked, they maybe spent a 10th of that for share repurchases over a multi year period. If you think they should have “saved” that money for the “black swan” event they’re experiencing now, then please send back your stimulus check because you don’t deserve it either...because, you should have not gone on vacations, or gone to bars, or gotten tattoos (or whatever your forms of enjoyment are) because you should have saved EVERY penny for a rainy day.

[xyz48B]

Ok, let’s do a little math. Last year, UAL’s payroll expense was $33,000,000/day. Using the article you linked, they maybe spent a 10th of that for share repurchases over a multi year period. If you think they should have “saved” that money for the “black swan” event they’re experiencing now, then please send back your stimulus check because you don’t deserve it either...because, you should have not gone on vacations, or gone to bars, or gotten tattoos (or whatever your forms of enjoyment are) because you should have saved EVERY penny for a rainy day.

Do you argue this way because corporations are people? Because I didn’t know that corporations “need” to spend their money on “forms of enjoyment.” How exactly does a corporation “enjoy” something?

 

Your comment would’ve been a lot palatable and constructive had you stopped before beginning with “if.”

[Monarchy79]

Ok, let’s do a little math. Last year, UAL’s payroll expense was $33,000,000/day. Using the article you linked, they maybe spent a 10th of that for share repurchases over a multi year period. If you think they should have “saved” that money for the “black swan” event they’re experiencing now, then please send back your stimulus check because you don’t deserve it either...because, you should have not gone on vacations, or gone to bars, or gotten tattoos (or whatever your forms of enjoyment are) because you should have saved EVERY penny for a rainy day.

 

You need to redo your math and revise the “sources” of your information.

Let’s stick with facts:

United Airlines CEO Oscar Munoz earned roughly $12,643,005 for 2019 and President J. Scott Kirby was awarded $16,779,485 for 2019.

 

This does not include the other top level executives.

If you’re telling me that it makes sense to receive support from the government, lay off low-level employees, but keep these top dogs, then it shows your unscrupulous mindset towards business and capitalism.

 

To each his own, but shame on you.

[Monarchy79]

Ok, let’s do a little math. Last year, UAL’s payroll expense was $33,000,000/day. Using the article you linked, they maybe spent a 10th of that for share repurchases over a multi year period. If you think they should have “saved” that money for the “black swan” event they’re experiencing now, then please send back your stimulus check because you don’t deserve it either...because, you should have not gone on vacations, or gone to bars, or gotten tattoos (or whatever your forms of enjoyment are) because you should have saved EVERY penny for a rainy day.

 

When did I ever say that I got a stimulus check? And I’ve been at home, following stay at home rules since March... haven’t been to any bars and would never get a tattoo... you make a lot of AS Sumptions, many of which are inaccurate....