What Makes Me Gay?

[Guest soccerstud]

What makes me gay? Ever since I came out about 10 years ago (in my late fifties), I've been told by my gay friends that it is a culture. "There's more to being gay than just having sex with other men."

 

But what? I know as many "straight-acting" (I despise that phrase) gay guys as effeminate guys. I know and see gay guys look like they're off the cover of GQ, but even more like their taste is up their ass (as are other things). The gay community is, as I perceive it, as varied as any other community: Some love music, some avoid concerts and ballet like the plague. Some couldn't dribble a basketball, while others are accomplished swimmers, skiiers, or even NBA players. (OK. OK. Every gay guy loves Bette Midler and her music and profanity.) Obviously, many of us are active in one way or another with gay causes, but that's a result of being in a minority and is certainly not a requisite of gayness.

 

But every gay guy loves dick. Gay sex is unbelievably more satisfying to me than straight sex ever was. Love to look at cute guys. (I could never understand in high school why all my friends thought girls were cute, and all I could do was nod my head in an utter and complete lie.) Attraction to men and sex with men, that--and Bette Midler--is the common thread to being gay. Or what is it that I'm missing?

[Guest josephga]

what i think makes me gay is the ability to have an emotional connection to a man, not just a sexual one

[+ Charlie]

I don't hear many men saying, "What makes me straight?" The variation among so-called straight men is as wide as the possibilities you have enumerated for gay men--in fact, it is exactly the same possibilities. I think being "gay" has less to do with being sexually attracted to other men than with one's attitude toward that attraction. Senator Larry Craig is homosexual, but he's right when he says he isn't gay. And I think one's attitude is determined by one's personal and cultural history, which is so complex that it is probably impossible to isolate a single cause.

 

At first I thought you were asking a cause-effect question, but on second thought, I think you are really asking a definition question. In that case, joseph has provided at least part of the answer.

[Rick Munroe]

>Attraction to men and

>sex with men, that--and Bette Midler--is the common thread to

>being gay. Or what is it that I'm missing?

 

What makes someone gay is a doll collection. No, seriously, I don't think you're missing anything. I have as much in common (and not in common) with my straight friends as I do with my gay friends. And I really hate the stereotypes (whether they're perceived as negative or positive).

[Guest carter07]

As the gay father of a gay son, I will say that we're born that way. As I recall some of the stories, researchers at Cornell believe there's a neurobiological reason, something to do with hormonal balances near the end of pregnancy, or at those times with physiological markers are set -- such as eye color etc. There may be a genetic basis of some sort as well or genetic/neurobiological.

 

In other words, we're not gay just because the like cute guys -- we like cute guys because we're gay. A certain fairly consistent percentage of all primates will be gay, human beings included. And this is why religious ignorance and hatred is so wrong.

[Guest carter07]

And I would add: because there is a certain level of homosexual orientation across primate species, and that homosexuality is prevalent at a certain level in all primate species, this condition is therefore normal. Being born homosexual is not an aberration. Put another way, nature intended some of us to be gay and some of us, most of us, to be straight — nature having reasons of its own, of course.

[Guest josephga]

My best friend has 2 older brothers and all 3 are gay

[Steven_Draker]

>As the gay father of a gay son, I will say that we're born that way.

 

In my observation many (if not all) gay man have or used to have a difficult relationship with their father and more affinity with their mother.

I think that because of the lack of that affection father-son one becomes gay during the process of growth. Of course this is more complicated than that, but just wanted to mention it briefly here.

 

Steven Draker ~

[a href=http://www.hotsexystud.com/uk]website[/a] [a href=http://www.daddysreviews.com/review.php?who=steven_draker_brussels]reviews[/a]

[Guest josephga]

my father was never affectionate growing up. not toward me or too my younger brother. no hugs no kisses no i love you. I rarely talked to my father it was like he was just there.

[Rick Munroe]

>In my observation many (if not

>all) gay man have or used to have a difficult relationship

>with their father and more affinity with their mother.

 

Both Derek and I were very close to both of our parents throughout our childhoods (as a matter of fact, both Derek and I recall thinking of our Dads as our best friends), so I personally don't put much faith in that outdated theory. Maybe it's a Belgian thing...

[Okliehomo]

Yep, that could be the cause of it all. Barbie and Midge and Skipper and cousin, Francie.....Why do I know that shit?

 

Because I was born that way, boys, and I believe that is why I had a somewhat distance relationship with my Dad. He was a man of the 50's, head of the house, fisherman, provider, and I was his little boy that played with dolls and loved to play dress up in Mother's patent leather red high heels and costume jewelry. How in the Hell was he prepared for that???

 

He wasn't, but the man did his best. And my Mother ran constant interference. We hid alot. Like Anne Frank...only Barbie was my accomplice.

 

Born that way and closer to my Mother because she never judged from birth. She was my partner in crime.....She knew and she still was like a hen with only one chick. My Dad used to say that....and he was right.

 

What I am trying to say is that..... maybe the way we are born has an effect on how we relate to our parents? Not the other way around?

 

"Tell that to Dr. Freud....with all the rest of it...

 

Okie

[Rick Munroe]

>I was

>his little boy that played with dolls and loved to play dress

>up in Mother's patent leather red high heels and costume

>jewelry.

 

What about the low-cut green dress? ;-) "This story was filmed on location...inside a woman's soul!"

 

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews33/a%20ill%20cry%20tomorrow%20susan%20hayward/poster3%20ill%20cry%20tomorrow.jpg

[+ purplekow]

>>I was

>>his little boy that played with dolls and loved to play

>dress

>>up in Mother's patent leather red high heels and costume

>>jewelry.

>

>What about the low-cut green dress? ;-) "This story was

>filmed on location...inside a woman's soul!"

>

>http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews33/a%20ill%20cry%20tomorrow%20susan%20hayward/poster3%20ill%20cry%20tomorrow.jpg

 

 

If you notice the breasts you are straight and if you notice the awfully colored green dress you are gay. If you want to give her a total make over, well you are who you are.

[Rick Munroe]

>If you notice the breasts you are straight and if you notice

>the awfully colored green dress you are gay.

 

Hmmm....Derek noticed the breasts and the pink dress in the smaller photo. I wonder what that means... :o

[Damascene]

There is also the theory that the father senses the gayness in the child and rejects it, causing the mother to bond more closely.

 

I thinks genetic with upbringing determining expression.

[Rod Hagen]

Soccerstud, you're gay?!!! God, I don't know if I can fuck you anymore now that I know that }(

 

Above, Charlie perhaps said it better than I've heard it put before: gay is the culture, homosexual (same-sex-attraction) is the condition (not implying "illness").

 

I think that says a lot, thanks Charlie.

 

For those interested in the biology, four excellent books.

 

**One****

The Gay Gene Pioneer Dean hammer, READ it before you say the kneejerk, "I don't think there's a gene":

 

"The Science Of Desire"

 

http://www.amazon.com/Science-Desire-Gene-Biology-Behavior/dp/0684804468/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203837262&sr=8-1

 

**Two****

Excellent and far too under-read:

 

"A Separate Creation", Chandler Burr

 

http://www.amazon.com/Separate-Creation-Biological-Origins-Orientation/dp/0786882409/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203837353&sr=1-3

 

***Three***

If same-sex attraction has a biological component, why hasn't it died out?

 

"Straight Science", Jim McKnight

 

http://www.amazon.com/Straight-Science-Homosexuality-Evolution-Adaptation/dp/0415157730/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203837459&sr=1-1

 

***Four***

The use and misuse of science in the study of SS-attraction written by the Los ANgeles guy who found differences in brain-bit size b/w gay and straight men:

 

"Queer Science" Simon Levay

 

http://www.amazon.com/Queer-Science-Abuse-Research-Homosexuality/dp/0262621193/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203837630&sr=1-4

 

Enjoy!

[twinkboylover28]

>I've been told by my gay friends that it

>is a culture. "There's more to being gay than just

>having sex with other men." The gay community is, as I perceive it, >as varied as any other

>community: Some love music, some avoid concerts and ballet

>like the plague. Some couldn't dribble a basketball, while

>others are accomplished swimmers, skiiers, or even NBA

>players. Or what is it that I'm missing?

>

 

 

There is no gay community that represents all gays. As you said, gays are varried like any other group of INDIVIDUALS with different social, political, and religious beliefs.

[Guest scortlovr]

I believe we are born gay and depending on our circumstances - family, where we live, etc. - some of us can/choose to come out early, some later, some never (hell, if you lived in Saudi Arabia, would you come out?!?). As for the culture, I think that if we're fortunate to be born in the Western world, being gay is kind of like religion, you may be born catholic but you can choose to go to church every Sunday, or once a year, or never!

[Guest Merlin]

It is too early to conclude that there is only one cause for homosexuality. (Gay is used by most people to mean homosexual, so that is what it means.) There is too much variety among gays to conclude, at this point, that there is only one cause. Why are some dominant, others submissive? Feminine vs masculine? Femininity often seems likely to have a physical cause. Capote and Richard Simmons are examples of gays who seem likely to have a physical or congenital difference. But most gays are not like that. Another difference is that some are able to function with women, at least when the gays are young, others are not. Many gays marry when young, have children and later feel more need for men. Many gay porn stars later marry and have children. I suspect the causes are far more diverse and complicated than we now imagine.

[+ Gar1eth]

>It is too early to conclude that there is only one cause for

>homosexuality. (Gay is used by most people to mean homosexual,

>so that is what it means.) There is too much variety among

>gays to conclude, at this point, that there is only one cause.

>Why are some dominant, others submissive? Feminine vs

>masculine? Femininity often seems likely to have a physical

>cause. Capote and Richard Simmons are examples of gays who

>seem likely to have a physical or congenital difference. But

>most gays are not like that. Another difference is that some

>are able to function with women, at least when the gays are

>young, others are not. Many gays marry when young, have

>children and later feel more need for men. Many gay porn stars

>later marry and have children. I suspect the causes are far

>more diverse and complicated than we now imagine.

 

 

I think Merlin makes a lot of sense-- I also agree with him that the original post was not referring to the difference between "homosexual and gay"--as one being an attraction for the same sex (h) and the other being the lifestyle (g), I think soccerstud was using gay = homosexual.

 

 

Gman

Gman

[Rod Hagen]

>I believe we are born gay and depending on our circumstances

 

Rather than simply "believe" why don't you read some of the books I recommended above? Or, better still, all of them and more on the subject!

 

http://www.RodHagen.com

[Rod Hagen]

>It is too early to conclude that there is only one cause for

>homosexuality.

 

No scientist make this claim. You should read some of the above books I suggested.

 

 

http://www.RodHagen.com

[Guest soccerstud]

Thanks for all the input and reactions.

 

For whatever it's worth: The first guy I had a relationship with insisted that being gay was far more than the relationship and sex between men. It was culture, community, sensitivity, etc. But the more I experienced all that, the more I became convinced that our community was(as stated in my original post and by many in this thread) just as varied as straights or any other group of people. I thought Charlie's comment about Larry Craig being gay but not homosexual was particularly insighful.

 

I was supposedly straight for 50 years. Married; great family; great kids; great profession. But I knew deep down I wasn't who I let everyone think I was. I also knew that if I hadn't confronted myself then, I'd die not really knowing who I was. Growing up in the '50's caused so many of us at that time to repress and fight being gay. That's why--though there is still a long way to go--I smile with happiness and envy as I see how open guys are now, how young gays are so much more often accepting of themselves (as I was not). It took a lot for me to come out when I did to my wife and kids. It's so much healthier.

 

--Soccerstud

[+ Oliver]

Ah - another reading assignment before meeting again! But will we really discuss the assignment? }(

[rocky]

Wow, never thought I'd be here doing this. I'm 53 years old and not out of the closet. But come from a very conservative family, small town, etc. and knew I was gay in high school back when it wasn't that popular. I'm not blaming anyone else, and would I switch, don't think so. I see escorts on a regular basis and one I see almost weekly, we're friends, snuggle, cuddle and have a sensitive time together, yeah I pay him but have some relaxing times just the same. Love to come out and let my friends know what fun I've had but will live in my own life but now sure what makes me gay..