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Program Boys in Brazil & Corona


brall3
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I think some of this is cultural. If a young macho guy there is offered a favour (eg cigarette, share of a pizza slice) from a friend I would not be surprised not witnessing a verbal expression of gratitude. The gratitude may be connective, the acknowledgement of a bond that exempts the formality, and the implicit intention of the receiver to wish the giver well.

 

Similarly, a boomerang request for a second-helping of assistance may be an artefact of this dynamic, whatever the degree of authenticity of connectivity in the context of an existing transactional history. I would not take it personally, and it may be as likely the guy is signalling (or feigning, if you are inclined to be, well, jaded) closeness as much as it is likely he may be guilty of a rude oversight.

 

In some cultures, in fact, expressed verbal gratitude for a wish granted can be considered an insult.

 

In Brazil, among youth, some research suggests that verbal gratitude is favoured by the wish receiver at about 50%, and connective gratitude (reciprocating by interpersonal closeness where possible) is quite prominent. There are variations according to whether the wish is hedonistic as opposed to based on a fundamental need, and differences related to whether where the person fits in a continuum of social autonomy-heteronomy.

 

A third form of gratitude, reciprocating a concrete favour in kind at some point, is obviously impossible given resources and distance. I wonder if that would also cause the young recipient to lean towards implied connectivity over ‘obrigado’, that connectivity having also been satisfied in cases of honouring you with an erotic image accompanying a request.

Edited by SirBIllybob
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I think some of this is cultural. If a young macho guy there is offered a favour (eg cigarette, share of a pizza slice) from a friend I would not be surprised not witnessing a verbal expression of gratitude. The gratitude may be connective, the acknowledgement of a bond that exempts the formality, and the implicit intention of the receiver to wish the giver well.

 

Similarly, a boomerang request for a second-helping of assistance may be an artefact of this dynamic, whatever the degree of authenticity of connectivity in the context of an existing transactional history. I would not take it personally, and it may be as likely the guy is signalling (or feigning, if you are inclined to be, well, jaded) closeness as much as it is likely he may be guilty of a rude oversight.

 

In some cultures, in fact, expressed verbal gratitude for a wish granted can be considered an insult.

 

In Brazil, among youth, some research suggests that verbal gratitude is favoured by the wish receiver at about 50%, and connective gratitude (reciprocating by interpersonal closeness where possible) is quite prominent. There are variations according to whether the wish is hedonistic as opposed to based on a fundamental need, and differences related to whether where the person fits in a continuum of social autonomy-heteronomy.

 

A third form of gratitude, reciprocating a concrete favour in kind at some point, is obviously impossible given resources and distance. I wonder if that would also cause the young recipient to lean towards implied connectivity over ‘obrigado’, that connectivity having also been satisfied in cases of honouring you with an erotic image accompanying a request.

Wordsworth, Hazlitt, Coleridge, Arnold, Bronte, Browning reincarnated?

PS Meant as a compliment.

Edited by sydneyboy
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I think it’s funny how so many of those from the western world, travel to second and third world nations, exploiting economically disadvantaged men for sex, and then have the unmitigated audacity to be offended at their lack of “grattitude”. ?‍♂️

 

Many of these guys save you from having to empty your pockets for $500 per hour escorts in your own countries, and allow you to treat them like disposable orifices and phallics for your sheer cheap enjoyment.

 

So if some Brazillian guys doesn’t say “Thank You”, then so what?

 

You should actually be “Thanking ” him anyways....

I partially disagree. These boys are in disadvantage yes, but they aren't 'exploited'. There's a MUTUAL agreement. Worst case one could say they're 'using' the clients, and viceversa. Rates are lower there yes, but we can't accept scams under cultural (or any) circumstances. For the record: Brazilians in general ARE thankful, these guys were just scammers. There was undue trust, money was lost, boys will be boys. But more importantly, please STOP ... fighting ... over men ... you haven't ... fucked. Only women do that, Yuck! ?

Edited by orville
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Apart from the hurt feelings , you got away lightly for just 150 bucks. I was reading an article about someone who was scammed 10s of thousands by one the women he met on those mail order bride companies.

There was a Supreme Court case in Sydney nearly 10 years ago where it came to light that a recently divorced doctor, a specialist, met a woman through an introduction agency. He paid $200,000 to the agency and spent a weekend with the woman and fell instantly in love . She told him she had to leave the country urgently but would return. Then came the sob story requests for money for every conceivable reason. The bottom line was that he paid a total of $3.1 million over an 18 months period. As it transpired he was the only client of the agency and this woman was the only one on offer. It was a conspiracy between the woman and the owner to rip off the doctor. They purchased property, a Porsche, a Lamborghini, BMW. You name it. The doctor was left bankrupt and sued for his money back. The judge hearing the case opened his written judgement with the words ''The case was so fantastic as to strain credulity.'' He directed that all the money paid by the doctor be repaid to his bankruptcy estate except the original $200,000.

What people will do or pay for ''love.''

Edited by sydneyboy
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I partially disagree. They are in disadvantage yes, but they aren't 'exploited'. There's a MUTUAL agreement. Worst case one could say they're 'using' each other. Rates are lower there yes, but we can't accept scams under cultural (or any) circumstances. There was undue trust, money was lost, boys will be boys. But more importantly, please STOP ... fighting ... over men ... you haven't fucked. Only women do that, Yuck! ?

 

No one’s “fighting”, over anyone. We’re stating our opinions, which you just did too.

?

 

have an awesome weekend!!!

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I think some of this is cultural. If a young macho guy there is offered a favour (eg cigarette, share of a pizza slice) from a friend I would not be surprised not witnessing a verbal expression of gratitude. The gratitude may be connective, the acknowledgement of a bond that exempts the formality, and the implicit intention of the receiver to wish the giver well.

 

I get what you might be trying to convey here, but it is not really an accurate depiction of how modern young brasileiros interact with and respond to each other and others they are familiar with. Also, it comes across as a distant academic assessment from someone who hasn’t spent much time interacting with or observing BrazilIan men in their own element (i.e., away from turistas and gringos, and not in a hotel room or a suite in a sauna).

 

They do say “thank you” to other BrazilIans and others whom they are socially familiar with ALL THE TIME. To suggest that young brasileiros do not commonly say “thank you” is “cultural” would be straight-up offensive to BrazilIans and is veering into xenophobia territory — in addition to it just being a false observation / conclusion.

 

Casual tourists and non-locals wouldn’t be expected to know this, but modern brasileiros don’t often use “obrigado” with each other. They use “valeu” or the often shortened sound of “bri-ga “ which is shortened from “brigado” which was shortened from “obrigado” (the “verbal” thanks that you post about in your cigarette or pizza slice “favour” example above). And on the “connective” side that you also bring up, they have handshakes (which vary by region) that they only do with those brasileiros with whom they are already familiar and friendly —- not very likely to be an older sauna tourist client who is not a regular conversationalist in BrazilIan Portuguese and not “in the mix”.

 

I also have to add here that although these are things you may hear, see, or pick up on, they are very casual and informal between familiar brasileiros — and as an outsider, you (yes, that means you, reader) should never be so presumptuous or familiar to say or do them with other brasileiros.

 

I’m not trying to be mean or troll you here, just being direct, hoping that readers will better understand this than academic treatises.

Edited by solacesoul
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Good points, to be sure.

 

I am in fact drawing from an academic research review and summarizing, briefly, multiple cross-cultural studies not just one isolated project, rather than pasting links to the relevant studies. It is not my own research. I am not a sociologist or anthropologist. But I simply wish to blend the scholastic along with some of the experiential here.

 

I have been in Brasil often and lived in long-stay low-cost family-integration room rentals of up to $20USD per night, (not upscale digs) enough to know that, yes, you will see a great deal of the usual expected polite social interactions among locals of all ages. And of course, many various verbal and meta-communicative forms.

 

I am not clumping all young men together. But I have decades of cross-cultural service experience and I have also observed different or non-existent incidents of ‘’the simple thank you”, whatever version might be seen as an expression of gratitude, according to gender, ethnicity, or intersection of those, obviously along with additional circumstances ... recognizing that my own relatively privileged gender and ethnicity play a role. The continuum has ranged from gifts out of whack with the situation to formal complaints about my being useless in relation to meeting a need.

 

I cannot second-guess all the dynamics in the OP’s reported cases, but I hoped that digging a little into the research on modes of expressed gratitude would broaden interpretation with multifactorial information and soften the negative stereotype about commercial sex workers, as I think is the intention of many contributors to the thread.

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I should also point out that the research is not observational but is based on self-reports of Brazilian youth regarding rates of preferred modes of expressing gratitude for having a wish met. One limitation of this is the possible disconnect between what they deem to best fit the situation and what they might do in actuality based on perception of what comportment dictates.

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I should also point out that the research is not observational but is based on self-reports of Brazilian youth regarding rates of preferred modes of expressing gratitude for having a wish met. One limitation of this is the possible disconnect between what they deem to best fit the situation and what they might do in actuality based on perception of what comportment dictates.

Interesting! Care to share the link or reference to that National Study that allows you to make generalizations about an entire country? Many thanks in advance...

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Interesting! Care to share the link or reference to that National Study that allows you to make generalizations about an entire country? Many thanks in advance...

Just being pedantic here, apologies in advance: A proper study would do averages, not generalizations.

Averages in the number of instances of a particular behavior can be calculated.

(For e.g. of the result of a study could be: in one country the phrase "You're welcome" is used on average 22 times per day as observed on a the group that is being studied, whereas "De nada" was used 8 times per day on average as observed on another group of a similar age and social status in another country).

And when those averages are different from one country to another that is interesting to know, and it can, sometimes, explain misunderstandings between 2 nationals of different countries.

You can do cultural studies by just stating facts and reporting what you find. You don't have to make "generalizations".

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I was not making a generalization about Brazil, nor were observational questionnaire researchers doing so particularly, and I have no need to defend what I took from the bit of reading I did. I was interested in digging a little into modes of expressing gratitude. It appears that Asian customs may be unique compared to Brazil and North America, the latter two patterns more similar.

 

Be my guest to do a search on, say, cross-cultural expressions of gratitude, and lead a seminar on the topic. Or simpler, if a young Brazilian male does not show appreciation according to expectations, explore it with him.

 

Personally, I am more caught up in my altruistic magnanimity, and buffing my nails on my lapel, on rare donation occasions than I am seeking overt recognition from the recipient.

Edited by SirBIllybob
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Just being pedantic here, apologies in advance: A proper study would do averages, not generalizations.

 

Apologies accepted for being pedantic and not knowing that a proper study would include statistical averages as part of the results but also conclusions in form of statements that I purposely called "generalizations". But of course I do not expect any references to the nonexistent study.

 

Averages in the number of instances of a particular behavior can be calculated.

 

Yes, but the numbers themselves can't tell any story to the people not familiar with statistics or the field of study. That's why we have results interpretation to find the insights that would explain said behaviour.

 

(For e.g. of the result of a study could be: in one country the phrase "You're welcome" is used on average 22 times per day as observed on a the group that is being studied, whereas "De nada" was used 8 times per day on average as observed on another group of a similar age and social status in another country).

And when those averages are different from one country to another that is interesting to know, and it can, sometimes, explain misunderstandings between 2 nationals of different countries.

 

I forgive you for completely missing the point about my expression "National Study that allows you to make generalizations about an entire country" because that would be complete non-sense. Brazil is a nation of 213 Million, just as big as the US, with massive economic and social inequalities across the entire population. Even if possible to be calculated, anyone saying that national averages could be used to describe every single element of a diverse universe of 213 million is just delusional.

 

http://thegate.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Screen-Shot-2017-08-05-at-9.37.12-AM.png

 

You can do cultural studies by just stating facts and reporting what you find. You don't have to make "generalizations".

 

Yes, generalizations don't apply. And no, you can't do a cultural study by just reporting and stating facts. It's not Accounting, it's Human / Social Sciences (reference in my comment above).

 

TO CLOSE: Insinuating ( as some have, at the beginning of this thread ) that all Brazilians have an ungrateful culture is misguided and falls into xenophobia and racism, so please stop it.

Edited by orville
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Got me ... the research papers related to gratitude expressivity customs in Brazil and elsewhere do not exist, and I have never peer-review published on help-seeking dynamics.

I am prepared to make generalizations about cross-national rates of rudeness and alpha fails, but it would not be particularly useful.

Thanks for admitting there is no such study and you are prejudiced and making xenophobic, probably also racist, remarks. And be prepared to make not even a single generalization. You are not allowed to make any malicious remarks targeting any nationality here.

Edited by orville
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