The spread of the Chinese coronavirus

[+ oldNbusted]

Turns out the story of a symptomless person spending the infection to coworkers in Germany was false.

 

Symptomless spread of new coronavirus questioned as outbreak mushrooms

 

Without direct communication with her prior to the publication, the NEJM article’s authors relied on the accounts of her four sickened colleagues in Germany, who said she didn’t seem sick during her visit.

But government health officials in Germany were later able to reach the Shanghai woman by telephone. People privy to details of the call told Science that she said she felt tired, had muscle pains, and took a fever-reducer during her visit.

Long standing advice is to stay home if you don't feel well.

 

[Guest]

OnTheGoodShipLollipop

It's a sweet trip to a candy shop

Wherebon-bons play

On the sunny beach of Peppermint Bay

 

[+ quoththeraven]

Turns out the story of a symptomless person spending the infection to coworkers in Germany was false.

 

Symptomless spread of new coronavirus questioned as outbreak mushrooms

 

Without direct communication with her prior to the publication, the NEJM article’s authors relied on the accounts of her four sickened colleagues in Germany, who said she didn’t seem sick during her visit.

But government health officials in Germany were later able to reach the Shanghai woman by telephone. People privy to details of the call told Science that she said she felt tired, had muscle pains, and took a fever-reducer during her visit.

Long standing advice is to stay home if you don't feel well.

 

Long standing advice is also for news stories to be checked. Furthermore, it might well have been impossible to cancel a planned work trip at the last minute due to the symptoms she reported, which I experience (sans fever) every single day due to chronic illness that isn't transmissible and which without knowledge and reporting of possible pandemic outbreaks the individual involved has no reason to think are a big deal. Employers are not always understanding. While a somewhat different issue, Starbucks just recently gave its baristas sick days to encourage them not to work when they're ill.

[+ quoththeraven]

The huge outbreak is pretty much confined to China, which boggled the initial response (including hauling doctors trying to sound the alarm up on charges). There has been one death outside of China so far, in the Philippines, and there are countries with patients who have recovered after antiviral treatment. One patient was discharged from the hospital in Toronto. A Korean patient who caught the virus in Wuhan is no longer showing evidence of the virus and authorities are considering whether he can be discharged. And a Thai doctor reported a 48-hour turnaround in a patient treated with anti-flu and anti-AIDS/HIV medications.

 

http://mengnews.joins.com/amparticle/3073332?__twitter_impression=true

 

(The Thai patient is from something I saw on Twitter and didn't save; everything else is referenced in the linked story.)

Korean patient #2 has been released from the hospital.

[MEDIA=twitter]1224920761581916162[/MEDIA]

[+ oldNbusted]

Long standing advice is also for news stories to be checked.

 

I've come to accept that you are prone to saying stuff that does not make any sense, so just letting you know, I have no idea what this has to do with being so ill you are taking drugs to treat your symptoms but still go to work.

 

Furthermore, it might well have been impossible to cancel a planned work trip at the last minute due to the symptoms she reported, which I experience (sans fever) every single day due to chronic illness that isn't transmissible and which without knowledge and reporting of possible pandemic outbreaks the individual involved has no reason to think are a big deal.

 

The logic here is so attenuated as to be non-existent. Are you just arguing to argue? Just let me know, so I can add you to my ignore list.

 

I'll say it again, the standing recommendation if you are sick is to not go to work and infect your coworkers. Nothing to do with a pandemic. There is not a debate on this. The last time a coworker showed up sick at my job, I said, in front of our boss, "Either you're going home or I am". He went home.

[+ quoththeraven]

I've come to accept that you are prone to saying stuff that does not make any sense, so just letting you know, I have no idea what this has to do with being so ill you are taking drugs to treat your symptoms but still go to work.

 

 

 

The logic here is so attenuated as to be non-existent. Are you just arguing to argue? Just let me know, so I can add you to my ignore list.

 

I'll say it again, the standing recommendation if you are sick is to not go to work and infect your coworkers. Nothing to do with a pandemic. There is not a debate on this. The last time a coworker showed up sick at my job, I said, in front of our boss, "Either you're going home or I am". He went home.

I was referring to the news report that stirred up unnecessary worry by claiming she was asymptomatic because her colleagues were unaware of her symptoms without checking to see if that was actually true. That's no different from reporting rumors.

 

I don't disagree that people are better off staying home when they're sick, but that doesn't always happen, not because people want to work when ill but because they can't afford not to or their employer insists they be there unless they're in the hospital. Prearranged overseas travel adds another layer of complication. It's great that you tell other people to go home and your boss is okay with it, but to act like that's how it always happens beggars belief. (Or that every boss would allow a subordinate to dictate attendance.)

[+ Keith30309]

[+ oldNbusted]

I was referring to the news report that stirred up unnecessary worry by claiming she was asymptomatic because her colleagues were unaware of her symptoms without checking to see if that was actually true. That's no different from reporting rumors.

 

I don't disagree that people are better off staying home when they're sick, but that doesn't always happen, not because people want to work when ill but because they can't afford not to or their employer insists they be there unless they're in the hospital. Prearranged overseas travel adds another layer of complication. It's great that you tell other people to go home and your boss is okay with it, but to act like that's how it always happens beggars belief. (Or that every boss would allow a subordinate to dictate attendance.)

 

Did you read the article I linked? The original source was an article published in the New England Journal of Medicine. I don't know any journalistic standard that says the underlying data of such an article needs to be independently validated. The issue here was not the journalists.

 

You are mischaracterizing my position, probably because your argument is very weak. If my boss had objected, we would have been heading down to HR, who usually understand that having one person on the job sick is not a good idea since it may take out a whole department. Middle managers will get away with whatever they can.

 

Back to the specific discussion, you are really not making a good point here, basically saying that we all just need to get infected with communicable viruses.

[+ oldNbusted]

WHO warns of PPE shortage; nCoV pace slows slightly in China

 

China’s case count

Earlier today, China reported 3,143 new cases, the second decline in as many days

, bringing the outbreak total to 31,161 cases, according to the latest update from the country's National Health Commission (NHC). There were 73 more deaths, 69 of them from Hubei province, raising the fatality count to 636.

Officials reported 962 serious cases, putting that total at 4,821. So far, 1,540 patients have recovered and been discharged from the hospital.

At today's briefing, Tedros said it's too soon to say if China's outbreak has peaked, noting that epidemiological curves can zigzag.

Also at the briefing, Maria Van Kerkhove, PhD, the WHO's technical lead for MERS-CoV, said that from data the WHO has seen on 17,000 of China's cases,

82% are mild, 15% severe, and 3% critical

. She noted that so far, only one amplifying event in a healthcare setting—a hallmark of Middle East respiratory coronavirus (MERS-CoV)—has been reported in China's outbreak.

In other developments in China:

Health officials have ramped up control measures in Wuhan, steering some sick people into quarantine areas such as stadiums and hotels and

ordering door-to-door fever checks of all households

, the New York Times reported today.

Emphasis added. For all the criticism, and doubtless mistakes were made, I'm not very confident things would be much better if this happened here.

[+ quoththeraven]

Did you read the article I linked? The original source was an article published in the New England Journal of Medicine. I don't know any journalistic standard that says the underlying data of such an article needs to be independently validated. The issue here was not the journalists.

 

You are mischaracterizing my position, probably because your argument is very weak. If my boss had objected, we would have been heading down to HR, who usually understand that having one person on the job sick is not a good idea since it may take out a whole department. Middle managers will get away with whatever they can.

 

Back to the specific discussion, you are really not making a good point here, basically saying that we all just need to get infected with communicable viruses.

I stand corrected. The doctors writing in the New England Journal of Medicine shouldn't have assumed she was asymptomatic without checking. That's not a journalistic problem, but it's a scientific problem because they didn't test one of their premises for veracity.

 

Otherwise you are deliberately mischaracterizing what I am saying. I'm not sure how "lack of sick pay and pressure from employers to be at work incentivizes people not to take time off when sick" amounts to "we all just need to get infected with communicable viruses." That's without even getting into whether one's symptoms are from communicable diseases, whether viruses or otherwise. Or are you saying it's reasonable to expect everyone to know off the bat when sometimes not even doctors know?

[Otto]

“A lot of people think that goes away in April as the heat comes in,” President Trump said of the outbreak that began in the Chinese city of Wuhan. “Typically that will go away in April. We’re in great shape though. We have 12 cases, 11 cases, and many of them are in good shape.”

 

Well I feel reassured!

[RealAvalon]

Corona Beer Virus? How gullible are people?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/business/2020/01/29/coronavirus-corona-beer-surges-on-google-trends-as-virus-spreads/4606997002/

Don't know if this hit the news where you are, but it got a lot of play here. The Australian couple that was stuck on a cruise ship in quarantine. They had their wine club deliver them two cases of wine by drone. @mike carey … Aussies

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7981025/Gold-Coast-couple-quarantined-Diamond-Princess-Cruise-Ship-wine-delivered-drone.html

Edited February 14, 2020 by RealAvalon

[TruthBTold]

If the current inhabitant is allowed to reinfect the White House, we may be in store for some troubling times. One always has to hope that Congress will work its magic but there better be a huge Democratic showing (and/or a compliant Republican one) so that good health policy is put in place

 

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/trump-coronavirus-budget-global-health-232707372.html

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisettevoytko/2020/02/11/trump-proposes-16-cut-to-cdc-as-global-number-of-coronavirus-infections-and-deaths-rise/#2d268e0118da

[Walker1]

I really wonder how accurate is the Chinese reporting? Are they underplaying it ? So far except a few cases, seem to be contained to China though. Hopefully it fades over.

 

Luckily we have modern medicine to save us. I believe the 1918 Spanish flu killed tens of millions of people and in those days, that was a big chunk of the population.

[EZEtoGRU]

I really wonder how accurate is the Chinese reporting? Are they underplaying it ?

The general consensus seems to be that the Chinese are significantly under-reporting the number of cases and deaths.

[TruthBTold]

I wonder what will happen if at some point a certain portion of the infected Chinese population, no matter how small, goes south towards the other Asian countries, e.g., Thailand, Vietnam, Laos and then perhaps to eastern India. They all have huge populations.

[Guest]

http://ww1.prweb.com/prfiles/2014/04/21/11790865/Princess-Cruises_CBN_Vert_Blue_RGB.jpg

[+ Italiano]

Wow, revisiting now this topic from 2 years ago under the perspective of all that has happened is... something!