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dfw2sfo
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Thinking about moving to NYC - have a potential job promotion but a few red flags about the job (other than what's listed below). If those get resolved, what feedback does anyone have about the move?

 

Here's what I am factoring:

 

* I know I will have to pay somewhat more ($300-500/month) for rent

* I am worried about the extreme cold and extreme heat. I'm from NJ originally so I'm familiar but haven't lived there in a long time. SF is just so consistent.

* Partner getting a job. It's painful for him to look for a new job and get accustomed to it. Generally it takes at least a year and a half for him to get used to the new job but...

 

I've always wanted to live in NYC so that's one of my biggest motivators.

 

Advice?

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Thinking about moving to NYC - have a potential job promotion but a few red flags about the job (other than what's listed below). If those get resolved, what feedback does anyone have about the move?

 

Here's what I am factoring:

 

* I know I will have to pay somewhat more ($300-500/month) for rent

* I am worried about the extreme cold and extreme heat. I'm from NJ originally so I'm familiar but haven't lived there in a long time. SF is just so consistent.

* Partner getting a job. It's painful for him to look for a new job and get accustomed to it. Generally it takes at least a year and a half for him to get used to the new job but...

 

I've always wanted to live in NYC so that's one of my biggest motivators.

 

Advice?

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Guest zipperzone

Leave SF? Wow, that would be a hard one for me but on the plus side I guess you would not have to hold your breath waiting for "the big one" which they say is not if but when.

 

Does the extra $$$ you claim it would cost you to live in NYC allow you to live in an area you would want to live in and will it give you a nice home or a dump?

 

Does you partner want to make the move or is he just going along with it to please you.

 

Will it hurt your standing with your employer if you turn the transfer down?

 

If there ever is another big terrorist attack, (and once again they say its when, not it) the chance of it being in NYC is pretty great. If it's REALLY big, who knows what would happen?

 

All in all, I'd take my chances and stay in SF for a whole bunch of reasons.

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Guest zipperzone

Leave SF? Wow, that would be a hard one for me but on the plus side I guess you would not have to hold your breath waiting for "the big one" which they say is not if but when.

 

Does the extra $$$ you claim it would cost you to live in NYC allow you to live in an area you would want to live in and will it give you a nice home or a dump?

 

Does you partner want to make the move or is he just going along with it to please you.

 

Will it hurt your standing with your employer if you turn the transfer down?

 

If there ever is another big terrorist attack, (and once again they say its when, not it) the chance of it being in NYC is pretty great. If it's REALLY big, who knows what would happen?

 

All in all, I'd take my chances and stay in SF for a whole bunch of reasons.

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I did that move almost exactly two years ago. It was a big gamble, but for me it worked out really well.

 

Things I like about NYC over SF:

 

* Being able to walk to just about any errand (blockbuster, fidelity, shoe repair, you name it). I lived in a great neighborhood in SF but still had to drive to get almost anything done.

* Getting rid of the car. Every night as my head hit my pillow in SF I had to think "Oh shit, will I have a ticket in the morning?"

* Getting to other cities is a breeze. Amtrak to Boston, Philly, DC works great, and JetBlue to Lauderdale is good, too.

* Having groceries delivered, laundry sent out, and a super (handyman) in the building.

* Escorting is better.

* Oh yeah, and all that culture stuff.

 

Things I miss about SF:

 

* Kayaking and nature in general. NY is close to other cities; SF is close to Tahoe, Yosemite, the wine country, etc.

* Very few ugly days weather-wise.

* City College. I was taking continuing ed classes in Spanish for quite cheap. As far as I can tell, similar classes in NYC are ~4x as much.

* The longtime friends I had from living in the area since '88.

 

Of course these lists are specific to my experience, but maybe they can give you some things to think about.

 

More importantly, part of what made my move work so well is that I threw a lot of money into it (and subsequently earn it back). My rent increased $1800 because I wasn't willing to live in a neighborhood or building that would present me (or my visiting clients) with challenges. If I wasn't in a great building in the heart of Chelsea (read: gay life, services and subway access), the move may not have worked out so well. I'm concerned that you say your rent will go up by $500. That may not be enough to take best advantage of what living in NYC can be. If the new job doesn't bump your salary enough to swing a great neighborhood while also padding your savings, that right there would give me pause.

 

Kevin Slater

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I am dumbfounded by the notion that it could cost more to live in NYC than in SF. Of course, I haven't lived in NYC in a long time, but I always used to think of it as more manageable than SF (and unlike Kevin, I kept a car in midtown Manhattan!). The main weather difference is that in NYC it changes from day to day, not hour to hour, so at least you can figure out what to wear when you get up in the morning. Predicting catastrophe is a crap shoot: who would have expected the second worst terrorist attack in America would be in Oklahoma City? Although I love SF, for many reasons, I hope to spend my final days in NYC.

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>As far as the rent goes I'm paying $2,000 a month right now

>and it seems like I can get something nice in a good

>neighborhood (Chelsea, Village) for $2,500. Am I right?

 

You might want to make a visit to test that theory. After looking quite a while, a buddy just moved into a ~400 square foot second-floor walk-up in the Village with the smallest bathroom you've seen in your life and pays $2400. (Granted it's a sublet, maybe the regular rental market is different.)

 

I'm not trying to be daunting, just hoping to level your expectations-- or raise your budget.

 

Kevin Slater

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DFW2SFO, have you considered:

-weather?? I shoveled during one blizzard back East, won't do it again. Mosquitoes and humidity, which we really don't have here in SF.

-Taxes? I believe there is a NYC employment tax on payrolls, in addition to State & Fed.

-Insurance? I have a friend who pays $1300/year (in NJ) for liability only on a 10 year old Buick. No accidents or tickets on their record.

-Utility costs?? We don't need AC here, you surely will back there - not to mention heat.

-Traffic?? I waited at the GW Bridge/Ft Lee toll booth over the summer for 40 minutes, at 11AM on a weekday. Mid-town tunnel was no rose either during non-commute hours.

-Out door beauty?? Nothing compares to East Bay Parks, GGNRA and Marin Watershed, and the amount of days you can use them!

 

Having asked all that, I have to say Big Apple-ites are the friendlier! Forget the rough/rude exterior, they are genuine people.

Do what Mr. Slater says, do a site visit, and ask questions.

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>>Things I miss about SF:

>

>* Kayaking and nature in general. NY is close to other

>cities; SF is close to Tahoe, Yosemite, the wine country,

>etc.

>* Very few ugly days weather-wise.

>* City College. I was taking continuing ed classes in Spanish

>for quite cheap. As far as I can tell, similar classes in NYC

>are ~4x as much.

>* The longtime friends I had from living in the area since

>'88.

>

>Of course these lists are specific to my experience, but maybe

>they can give you some things to think about.

>

I don't know about kayaking in particular, but there are many great opportunities to do activities in NYC, Central Park has great facilities, but moreover the beaches of Long Island, New Jersey and Fire Island are nearby, the mountains of upstate NY and Pennsylvania and NJ, the skiing of Vermont is a nice 5 hour drive (if you drive like a New Yorker) casinos in Connecticutt and NJ. With few exceptions, if you can't do it there, you can't do it anywhere.

I have never seen a purplekow;

I never hope to see one;

I can tell you anyhow;

I'd rather see than be one

 

Help there is a purplekow in my mirror

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Rents in NYC can change. I have a 575 sq foot L-shaped studio in a good building near Union Square Park. (Technically, it is in Chelsea.) In early 2005 I sublet the apartment for $2,200. I wanted $2,400 but could not get that. At the time many new apartment buildings were opening in the area and I was competing against new apartments with new appliances, etc. Part of the rent also depends on the amenities in the building - doorman, age, upkeep, gym, laundry, etc.

 

On the other hand, about the same time (2004 - 2005) I was interviewing with a company based in North Carolina. When we got to salary I was repeatedly told that the cost of living is lower in NC. I countered that I have owned my apartment for a long time (my mortgage would probably not change with a new home in that area), but, my transportation cost would increase dramatically. It's difficult to pay for a car anywhere on the $80 a month I spend for MetroCards.

 

I totally agree with Kevin - make a trip to NYC and look at some apartments in areas where you'd want to live to get an idea of how well you'll to live here.

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>If I wasn't in a great

>building in the heart of Chelsea (read: gay life, services and

>subway access)

 

I live in the heart of Chelsea and I'd like to know...where is this gay life of which you speak? Do all the straight college girls and couples holding hands and pushing baby strollers know about it? :o

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The weather in NYC should be the least of your problems in your decision to move. The last blizzard was about 3 years ago and the past 2 winters have seen little snowfall in the metro area. The weather this weekend was glorious.

 

Expect to pay $3,200 or more for a small one bedroom in Manhattan. The more located in midtown you want to be, the higher the rent. Many are opting for alternative, up and coming neighborhoods in Brooklyn (Cobble Hill), Queens (Long Island City), or upper Manhattan (Morningside Heights) but rents are still steep with a 1% vacancy rate.

 

Yes, everything is more expensive here. You will have to pay federal, state and local tazes, plus the deductions for FICA, State Unemployment Tax, and whatever amount your company will charge you for health care and miscellaneous benefits (life insurance, medical spending accounts, dental, etc.) Hopefully you will also be contributing before-tax income to a 401K.

 

You need to do some serious homework and research before you make your decision. Speak to friends and family who might offer some reasonable opinions. Some have suggested a pre-trip to NYC to check things out. Good idea. Look online at NY Real estate sites for some info on rent and available neighborhood locations. Most of all you and your partner need to make the decision together.

 

Forget a car. If you live anywhere in the 5 boroughs of NY, you won't need one and the headaches that are associated with it. Not only is car insurance very expensive but parking can cost an arm and a leg, too. Parking garages are not cheap in Manhattan and street parking has it's headaches with alternate side of the street parking rules (yes, you have to move your car from one side to another every morning so the streets can be cleaned. AND, remember, everyone else is doing the same thing so some folks get up extra early to move their cars.) And yes, we have a great mass transit system which just announced fare will be going up! Con-Ed our fabulous power company has just requested a 17% rate hike, so turning on a light will not come cheap either.

 

Still, we love the energy and excitment that only NY holds. If you aren't broke from paying the rent, there are places to go and things to do that will keep you busy every waking hour, some free, some not so free.

 

Good luck.

 

ED

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Guest zipperzone

>The weather in NYC should be the least of your problems in

>your decision to move. The last blizzard was about 3 years

>ago and the past 2 winters have seen little snowfall in the

>metro area.

 

The weather would never be a factor to deter me from living there.

I love a good NYC blizzard. Some of my best memories of my many visits are of trying to trudge down 5th Ave when the snow is up to my gonads. Very exciting times!

 

I would live in NYC in a New York minute, so to speak, if I could afford to live the way I live in Vancouver. Unfortunately that isn't possible. But - for all of Rick's bravado - the threat of an even greater disaster that 911 would give me pause and would always be on my mind. I have zero confidence that the city, state or federal governments would be of much help. One only has to look to New Orleans to figure that one out.

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>But - for all of Rick's

>bravado -

 

It's not "bravado" at all. What's pretentious and false about stating that New Yorkers live longer? And it is true that I, like most New Yorkers, don't choose to live my life cowering in fear of "the terrorists" and dwelling on "9/11...9/11...9/11" all the time in a Guiliani/Fox News nightmare. :o

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If NYer's don't live longer, they sure seem to enjoy it more. :-)

 

I grew up in the days of nuclear bomb shelters proposed for every back yard. It was terrifying to think about. But, one cannot be caught up in what if 24/7.

 

Something is going to get me (us) one day. In the mean time, I intend to not seek it out.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

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Thanks again. I'm leaning toward it as long as I can feel OK about the job itslef and get my partner to feel comfortable with it. I really don't fear (more than any other general fear) the terrorist threat. I will go into heavy negotiation mode for as much as possible - maybe get the broker's fee paid for, corporate housing for a few months, etc. It would be more daunting to move from Texas to NYC directly instead of being in SF for 6 years. There it is much cheaper and no state income tax. Will update.

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