about coming out

[+ José Soplanucas]

I like a lot this essay.

 

Coming out used to be about freeing yourself. Now it’s about placating everyone else.

[bostonman]

Quoting the article - "But the reality is that queer people have to come out over and over and over again. It’s exhausting and frankly sometimes not worth it. So I’m not always out. Maybe someone asks me if I have a wife, and I simply say no."

 

Reminds me of a conversation I once had with a male colleague (a musician I was doing a gig with) - someone who didn't know me particularly well. I had just gone through a very bad breakup with a long term boyfriend and was very depressed over it. In a passing conversation I mentioned that I was going through some tough times after a breakup, and his immediate response, along with expressing sympathy, was to ask "any kids?" He didn't know I was gay, and he seemed to be assuming I had been married to a woman. I just said no and let it pass.

 

One very strange coming out moment I had - I was in college, home for the summer, and was out by that point, but still flirted with the idea of dating girls also. There was one girl that I had been close to, who was very interested in me, but it just wasn't happening. I finally decided to come out to her. She was an actress, but this was the 1980's and even though she was aware of gay actors in our company, I tend to think she hadn't thought much about it all. She was disappointed to hear my news of course, but wanted to talk about it. I remember her asking me, "so, you have sex with men?" And I said I did. "Can't you get AIDS from that?" (This was the mid-'80s, as I said, and all of this was still new.) I qualified that I didn't do anal, just didn't enjoy it. Then came the remark I'll never forget - remembering of course that this was a straight female, college age - "But that IS sex. Everything else is just foreplay." And, well, I guess there are people, even now, that feel that the only "real sex" is fucking - but I'm glad I don't feel that way at all. Even back then, I remember being a bit stunned by that comment lol. (I don't remember what my response was, but I would like to think I gave her my opinion that sex could be just as valid without.)

[Islesguy]

Quoting the article - "But the reality is that queer people have to come out over and over and over again. It’s exhausting and frankly sometimes not worth it. So I’m not always out. Maybe someone asks me if I have a wife, and I simply say no."

 

Reminds me of a conversation I once had with a male colleague (a musician I was doing a gig with) - someone who didn't know me particularly well. I had just gone through a very bad breakup with a long term boyfriend and was very depressed over it. In a passing conversation I mentioned that I was going through some tough times after a breakup, and his immediate response, along with expressing sympathy, was to ask "any kids?" He didn't know I was gay, and he seemed to be assuming I had been married to a woman. I just said no and let it pass.

 

One very strange coming out moment I had - I was in college, home for the summer, and was out by that point, but still flirted with the idea of dating girls also. There was one girl that I had been close to, who was very interested in me, but it just wasn't happening. I finally decided to come out to her. She was an actress, but this was the 1980's and even though she was aware of gay actors in our company, I tend to think she hadn't thought much about it all. She was disappointed to hear my news of course, but wanted to talk about it. I remember her asking me, "so, you have sex with men?" And I said I did. "Can't you get AIDS from that?" (This was the mid-'80s, as I said, and all of this was still new.) I qualified that I didn't do anal, just didn't enjoy it. Then came the remark I'll never forget - remembering of course that this was a straight female, college age - "But that IS sex. Everything else is just foreplay." And, well, I guess there are people, even now, that feel that the only "real sex" is fucking - but I'm glad I don't feel that way at all. Even back then, I remember being a bit stunned by that comment lol. (I don't remember what my response was, but I would like to think I gave her my opinion that sex could be just as valid without.)

I have a gay friend who believes the same thing about what constitutes sex: nothing is sex but anal. It's no different than the people who take Chasity pledges and believe they are still virgins since they don't have vaginal penetration. IMO, if I am sticking my tongue deeply into another man's mouth, we're already on the sex line.

[bostonman]

I have a gay friend who believes the same thing about what constitutes sex: nothing is sex but anal. It's no different than the people who take Chasity pledges and believe they are still virgins since they don't have vaginal penetration. IMO, if I am sticking my tongue deeply into another man's mouth, we're already on the sex line.

 

I guess it was the Bill Clinton plea as well - "I did not have sex with that woman..."

[+ José Soplanucas]

The article stricks me in so many ways, as a teacher who has not come out to his students but does not want to lie to them always walking in the edge, as I have very close relationships with many of my students. As a queer man who does not feel fully comfortable in the gay label, and has to be lecturing all the time about the particularities of my sexuality even to gay friends more fond of stereotypes. I could go on and on.

In a different dimension, it also strikes me how privileged we are. We are having this post-gay conversations, in a world still poisoned by homophobia.

Edited October 18, 2019 by latbear4blk

[bostonman]

The article sticks me in so many ways, as a teacher who has not come out to his students but does not want to lie to them always walking in the edge, as I have very close relationships with many of my students. As a queer man who does not feel fully comfortable in the gay label, and has to be lecturing all the time about the particularities of my sexuality even to gay friends more fond of stereotypes. I could go on and on.

In a different dimension, it also strikes me how privileged we are. We are having this post-gay conversations, in a world still poisoned by homophobia.

 

I feel incredibly lucky that I work in an environment (musical theatre, both performing and teaching) that already has a basic built-in acceptance (are there homophobic actors? Sure - but I haven't encountered all that many or have had any major problems). I'm very comfortable talking about my own sexuality - and I'm one of those people that I guess we could qualify as "straight acting/appearing," so I do find that occasionally someone is surprised to hear that I'm gay.

 

I am out to some of my students (college age), and it's always been fine - I feel a great deal of mutual respect with my students, and though I won't stereotype, a good percentage of our male students in my program over the years have been gay. I find that one conversation that comes up often is when a student is working on an AIDS-related song (stuff from the musical Falsettos, for instance), I talk about the impact of the virus when it first became news in the early 80's - a time that current students didn't live through and just don't quite understand how frightening it was. It feels good to be able to talk to them with the perspective of an older gay man without feeling "dirty" about it. That said, I don't wear my sexuality on my sleeve - I've never felt that my life or my work is "defined" by my gayness - it's just another part of me.

[MrMattBig]

) I qualified that I didn't do anal, just didn't enjoy it. Then came the remark I'll never forget - remembering of course that this was a straight female, college age - "But that IS sex. Everything else is just foreplay." And, well, I guess there are people, even now, that feel that the only "real sex" is fucking - but I'm glad I don't feel that way at all. Even back then, I remember being a bit stunned by that comment lol. (I don't remember what my response was, but I would like to think I gave her my opinion that sex could be just as valid without.)

No matter how progressive we become, narrow mindedness will always exist. In my experience, I have come across people from all genders who take the fact that I have sex with men to mean that I am gay. Completely discounting and ignoring that I have sex with everyone of all genders. It's like once I have sex with a guy nothing else about my sexual identity matters. Just like in your example, to the woman you haven't had sex till a penis goes into an oriface below the belt.

 

Personally, I don't really consider myself as having come out as anything really. Not that I am in the closet, just I don't really care and put stock in what others think of me and my sexuality. If some asks, I'll try and describe it to them. To those less informed and I just describe myself as a sexual freak and leave the rest up to their imaginations.

[bostonman]

No matter how progressive we become, narrow mindedness will always exist. In my experience, I have come across people from all genders who take the fact that I have sex with men to mean that I am gay. Completely discounting and ignoring that I have sex with everyone of all genders. It's like once I have sex with a guy nothing else about my sexual identity matters. Just like in your example, to the woman you haven't had sex till a penis goes into an oriface below the belt.

 

Personally, I don't really consider myself as having come out as anything really. Not that I am in the closet, just I don't really care and put stock in what others think of me and my sexuality. If some asks, I'll try and describe it to them. To those less informed and I just describe myself as a sexual freak and leave the rest up to their imaginations.

 

I do think it's interesting that people still have trouble with binary choices like bisexuality (i.e. "how can you commit to a person of one gender if you like both?") but also have trouble with what we now call "non-binary" (i.e. fluid gender identity). We do still live in a world where things are often defined as male or female, and that's that.

[MrMattBig]

I do think it's interesting that people still have trouble with binary choices like bisexuality (i.e. "how can you commit to a person of one gender if you like both?") but also have trouble with what we now call "non-binary" (i.e. fluid gender identity). We do still live in a world where things are often defined as male or female, and that's that.

When some frame it like a commitment question like you mentioned, it's always interesting because the answer to that is polyamory. Which then blows up there understanding of the world around them just a bit more. Lol.

[bostonman]

When some frame it like a commitment question like you mentioned, it's always interesting because the answer to that is polyamory. Which then blows up there understanding of the world around them just a bit more. Lol.

 

Polyamory is certainly a possibility, but I do also certainly know people who have had committed relationships over time with partners of both genders and who have been very happy with that. I have a friend who is now in her 2nd marriage to a man, but has also always been interested in women, and between those 2 marriages, had a longterm lesbian relationship.

[Walker1]

First world problems. I am sure straights invading our privacy is a problem. But here is the issues gays face in other countries who live in the same time frame as us. Scary stuff.

[+ José Soplanucas]

First world problems. I am sure straights invading our privacy is a problem. But here is the issues gays face in other countries who live in the same time frame as us. Scary stuff.

 

You do not need to go to Asia to find scaring homophobia. It often shows in the USA and even these forums.

I am not afraid of ISIS, I am afraid of Evangelical Christians working to set a theocratic government in America. But let's leave politics out of this thread.

[Walker1]

You do not need to go to Asia to find scaring homophobia. It often shows in the USA and even these forums.

I am not afraid of ISIS, I am afraid of Evangelical Christians working to set a theocratic government in America. But let's leave politics out of this thread.

It isn't politics. It is fact. It is perfectly legal to kill homosexuals or imprison them in this very day. Until the supreme court ruled otherwise, it was a crime in some states in our own country too.

 

About 70 countries in this world criminalize homosexuality. A handful of them to this day make it a capital crime. The court only has to prove you are a homosexual and you are given the death penalty.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/06/14/countries-where-being-gay-is-legally-punishable-by-death/39574685/

 

 

My point of my prior post is that us gays still face horrific consequences-just for being gay. No other crime-just being who you are can lead to lengthy prison sentences or even death. Straight people being curious and trying to understand isn't really that great of an issue-IMHO. You can be rude and snap back and not all straight people are like that. Every small thing should not be made into bigotry, homophobia and such or the original meaning will be gone. It is just under two decades since anal sex was a crime in our own country in several states.

 

I just wish they would decriminalize prostitution too.

[+ poolboy48220]

I just bought a new tent. I decided on the one that had an attached closet, so I could keep coming out of it. To whom, by now, I'm not sure...

[bostonman]

For those of you who remember Teletubbies, I once bought a Tinky Winky doll, and it's still hanging up in my closet.

[MrMattBig]

For those of you who remember Teletubbies, I once bought a Tinky Winky doll, and it's still hanging up in my closet.

Omg, that show as a whole was creeeppyyy!

I remember watching it with my younger sister when we were all little.

[Chad Constantine]

No matter how progressive we become, narrow mindedness will always exist. In my experience, I have come across people from all genders who take the fact that I have sex with men to mean that I am gay. Completely discounting and ignoring that I have sex with everyone of all genders. It's like once I have sex with a guy nothing else about my sexual identity matters. Just like in your example, to the woman you haven't had sex till a penis goes into an oriface below the belt.

 

Personally, I don't really consider myself as having come out as anything really. Not that I am in the closet, just I don't really care and put stock in what others think of me and my sexuality. If some asks, I'll try and describe it to them. To those less informed and I just describe myself as a sexual freak and leave the rest up to their imaginations.

 

What are you talking about? You have definitely came out. You came out as...

lmao

Edited October 13, 2019 by Chad Constantine

[David1024]

For those of you who remember Teletubbies, I once bought a Tinky Winky doll, and it's still hanging up in my closet.

 

Will Tinky Winky ever come out of the (your) closet? My personal favorite was Dipsea.

[MassageDrew]

National Coming Out Day is a thing now. I can't say I'm in the closet nor am I out. If I get asked then I won't deny it, but I also don't volunteer the info. Why? Cuz it's my own business. I guess I don't have to answer when they ask either but that just make them wonder even more.

[+ tassojunior]

Sometimes you just need to show others how far you can swallow a banana

 

[MEDIA=instagram]B3EMzjtoojY[/MEDIA]

[Becket]

Pretty good article, yes. Threw up in my mouth a little when Aaron Schock was held up as a positive example of the "coming out" journey. But otherwise a good read.

[+ keroscenefire]

The article sticks me in so many ways, as a teacher who has not come out to his students but does not want to lie to them always walking in the edge, as I have very close relationships with many of my students.

 

This is so true. I'm in education as well and it's very tricky to be "out" in this profession. I am mostly to my colleagues but to my students I obfuscate my sexuality much more. The reality is that anyone who works with minors knows that ultimately it could come down to your word against theirs and any hint of anything inappropriate is enough to ruin careers or even worse.

[+ quoththeraven]

It isn't politics. It is fact. It is perfectly legal to kill homosexuals or imprison them in this very day. Until the supreme court ruled otherwise, it was a crime in some states in our own country too.

 

About 70 countries in this world criminalize homosexuality. A handful of them to this day make it a capital crime. The court only has to prove you are a homosexual and you are given the death penalty.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2019/06/14/countries-where-being-gay-is-legally-punishable-by-death/39574685/

 

 

My point of my prior post is that us gays still face horrific consequences-just for being gay. No other crime-just being who you are can lead to lengthy prison sentences or even death. Straight people being curious and trying to understand isn't really that great of an issue-IMHO. You can be rude and snap back and not all straight people are like that. Every small thing should not be made into bigotry, homophobia and such or the original meaning will be gone. It is just under two decades since anal sex was a crime in our own country in several states.

 

I just wish they would decriminalize prostitution too.

Parts of Christian Europe like Poland are enshrining homophobia into law the way Russia already has, but no one around here seems to mention it.

[+ WilliamM]

Parts of Christian Europe like Poland are enshrining homophobia into law the way Russia already has, but no one around here seems to mention it.

 

To be fair, @quoththeraven, it is well known by members who travel to Russia and Eastern Europe.

[+ quoththeraven]

To be fair, @quoththeraven, it is well known by members who travel to Russia and Eastern Europe.

I meant it's not a matter of discussion on the forum. That is always limited to handwringing over Muslim countries.

 

There are Christian ministers who support the proposal in Uganda (not, as far as I know, yet enacted) to make homosexual behavior punishable by death. I haven't been able to quickly decipher who is behind this, but since Uganda is 81% Christian and 19% Muslim and over 90% consider homosexuality unnatural, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that any religious impetus is primarily coming from Christians.