about coming out

[+ José Soplanucas]

I meant it's not a matter of discussion on the forum. That is always limited to handwringing over Muslim countries.

 

There are Christian ministers who support the proposal in Uganda (not, as far as I know, yet enacted) to make homosexual behavior punishable by death. I haven't been able to quickly decipher who is behind this, but since Uganda is 81% Christian and 19% Muslim and over 90% consider homosexuality unnatural, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that any religious impetus is primarily coming from Christians.

 

The problem is not Christianity or Islamism (of course as long as you are not islamophobic), but theocracy or secular state. If Christians were given the chance, we would be under homophobic oppression here. Of course, we are very sophisticated. Instead of executions, we would have mandatory conversion therapy.

But again, this is not the forum for this conversation.

[+ WilliamM]

I meant it's not a matter of discussion on the forum. That is always limited to handwringing over Muslim countries.

 

There are Christian ministers who support the proposal in Uganda (not, as far as I know, yet enacted) to make homosexual behavior punishable by death. I haven't been able to quickly decipher who is behind this, but since Uganda is 81% Christian and 19% Muslim and over 90% consider homosexuality unnatural, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that any religious impetus is primarily coming from Christians.

 

 

 

 

Sudan and South Sudan are even worse, @quoththeraven

[RealAvalon]

The article stricks me in so many ways, as a teacher who has not come out to his students but does not want to lie to them always walking in the edge, as I have very close relationships with many of my students. As a queer man who does not feel fully comfortable in the gay label, and has to be lecturing all the time about the particularities of my sexuality even to gay friends more fond of stereotypes. I could go on and on.

In a different dimension, it also strikes me how privileged we are. We are having this post-gay conversations, in a world still poisoned by homophobia.

I'm not sure what you mean by the 'gay label.' But I think it would require several beer and a couple of hours to understand. I'll buy.

Edited November 5, 2019 by RealAvalon

[marylander1940]

Parts of Christian Europe like Poland are enshrining homophobia into law the way Russia already has, but no one around here seems to mention it.

 

They take it as an anti Western (globalization) attitude...

 

I think there have been a few posts in the politics section.

[+ E.T.Bass]

First world problems. I am sure straights invading our privacy is a problem. But here is the issues gays face in other countries who live in the same time frame as us. Scary stuff.

When our country was founded, the Brits were still killing men for doing hanky panky with another dude. Public hangings.

 

Thomas Jefferson thought differently, that cutting their nuts off would be ample punishment.

 

The Brits spread their common law across the globe. I'd like to know if those societies killed gay men before the Brits empire spread into the Middle East. Certainly was not done in native American cultures.

 

That said, life for gay men was far better before the Arab Spring and before ISIS. Being outed there is now a terrible event. So yes, our squabbles over coming out and not being out enough or queer enough are given perspective by those victims tossed from rooftops.

 

Yet we are still an easy target. For now, it is our good fortune for those of us that live in the West. Still, I'll never trust faith based US civics. Recriminalizing bufu is still part of their think-tank dogma. Coming out is good for the whole, but even now, can be risky. I try not to judge the choices made about coming out.

Edited November 8, 2019 by E.T.Bass

[Walker1]

When our country was founded, the Brits were still killing men for doing hanky panky with another dude. Public hangings.

 

Thomas Jefferson thought differently, that cutting their nuts off would be ample punishment.

 

The Brits spread their common law across the globe. I'd like to know if those societies killed gay men before the Brits empire spread into the Middle East. Certainly was not done in native American cultures.

 

That said, life for gay men was far better before the Arab Spring and before ISIS. Being outed there is now a terrible event. So yes, our squabbles over coming out and not being out enough or queer enough are given perspective by those victims tossed from rooftops.

 

Yet we are still an easy target. For now, it is our good fortune for those of us that live in the West. Still, I'll never trust faith based US civics. Recriminalizing bufu is still part of their think-tank dogma. Coming out is good for the whole, but even now, can be risky. I try not to judge the choices made about coming out.

 

The British took their anti gay rules to all the places they ruled. India had a British era anti gay legislation till it was stuck down recently by their Supreme court.

 

Kenya still has British era anti gay rules that I believe allow upto 14 years in jail for just the act of having gay sex. Their supreme court unfortunately upheld it .

Some more history on the British and their role in spreading anti gay legislation to countries that never had them before.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/05/kenya-supreme-court-lgbtq/590014/

 

My point was not about coming out. I think being out is good. More about the frivolous nature of the article-oh my how many times do I have to come out-how many times do striagt people ask me about our gay relationship. I think that is a good thing that straight people actually care and engage and not shun us or God forbid we have to face what our fellow gay people face in many countries of the world today. If their curiosity bothers you, say so-it is a free country-it means we are being integrated.

[bostonman]

When our country was founded, the Brits were still killing men for doing hanky panky with another dude. Public hangings.

 

Thomas Jefferson thought differently, that cutting their nuts off would be ample punishment.

 

Yes, but no matter the mores of an era or under various religions, etc, humans have always been insatiably curious about sex - and I tend to think that "secret experimentation" has always happened between members of the same sex, even by people who publicly cry out against homosexuality. Who's to say that young Tommy Jefferson didn't rub one out with a male friend at some point? I think it's human nature.

[marylander1940]

Yes, but no matter the mores of an era or under various religions, etc, humans have always been insatiably curious about sex - and I tend to think that "secret experimentation" has always happened between members of the same sex, even by people who publicly cry out against homosexuality. Who's to say that young Tommy Jefferson didn't rub one out with a male friend at some point? I think it's human nature.

 

Example:

 

[RealAvalon]

The British took their anti gay rules to all the places they ruled. India had a British era anti gay legislation till it was stuck down recently by their Supreme court.

 

Kenya still has British era anti gay rules that I believe allow upto 14 years in jail for just the act of having gay sex. Their supreme court unfortunately upheld it .

Some more history on the British and their role in spreading anti gay legislation to countries that never had them before.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/05/kenya-supreme-court-lgbtq/590014/

 

My point was not about coming out. I think being out is good. More about the frivolous nature of the article-oh my how many times do I have to come out-how many times do striagt people ask me about our gay relationship. I think that is a good thing that straight people actually care and engage and not shun us or God forbid we have to face what our fellow gay people face in many countries of the world today. If their curiosity bothers you, say so-it is a free country-it means we are being integrated.

I doubt this had any impact of the events of the weekend and the riot at the Stonewall Inn in 1969, but the previous day, 450 miles north in Ottawa, the federal sodomy laws in Canada were stuck down, with Prime Minister Trudeau famously saying, "the State has no place in the bedrooms of the nation."

[+ quoththeraven]

The British took their anti gay rules to all the places they ruled. India had a British era anti gay legislation till it was stuck down recently by their Supreme court.

 

Kenya still has British era anti gay rules that I believe allow upto 14 years in jail for just the act of having gay sex. Their supreme court unfortunately upheld it .

Some more history on the British and their role in spreading anti gay legislation to countries that never had them before.

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/05/kenya-supreme-court-lgbtq/590014/

 

My point was not about coming out. I think being out is good. More about the frivolous nature of the article-oh my how many times do I have to come out-how many times do striagt people ask me about our gay relationship. I think that is a good thing that straight people actually care and engage and not shun us or God forbid we have to face what our fellow gay people face in many countries of the world today. If their curiosity bothers you, say so-it is a free country-it means we are being integrated.

Not exactly. There's still the assumption that everyone is straight, which isn't true and is a product of limited thinking.

 

Just because something is more prevalent doesn't make it the default, just like white, male and cis aren't defaults but often are treated as if they are.

[hypothetically]

Marsha P Johnson did not throw a brick at Stonewall for a self loathing writer to be whining like this.

 

I understand his frustrations but that perspective reeks of internal conflict. I’ve never considered coming out to be “exhausting,” nor am I “sometimes out” as the author indicated he was. While he had some key points about the commercialization of “coming out,” he ultimately sounds like someone whom isn’t living in his truth. While I understand everyone’s coming out experience is individual, your

coming out journey is whatever you want it to be. Straight people do not get to decide that for you.

 

You can’t demand rights and visibility without the accompanying response from a very misinformed and curious world. To say that it wasn’t going to be his responsibility to educate, or, as he put it rather aggressively, be a “servant” to “straight wokeness,” then who is?

Edited November 9, 2019 by hypothetically

[marylander1940]

I have a gay friend who believes the same thing about what constitutes sex: nothing is sex but anal. It's no different than the people who take Chasity pledges and believe they are still virgins since they don't have vaginal penetration. IMO, if I am sticking my tongue deeply into another man's mouth, we're already on the sex line.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. I guess some folks just can't help trying to cleaner than others.

 

Back to subject: I came out in my 40's at a time when men by 30 they had to be married and there was a lot of pressure to do it. All my folks told "don't worry, we figured it out already".

 

Btw I noticed a huge change in the acceptance of gay people among African Americans after Biden first and Obama later came out in support of gay marriage. Obviously they had to wait to do it after they got reelected, while Romney campaign in bringing back DADT.

[marylander1940]

You do not need to go to Asia to find scaring homophobia. It often shows in the USA and even these forums.

I am not afraid of ISIS, I am afraid of Evangelical Christians working to set a theocratic government in America. But let's leave politics out of this thread.

 

That's a hell of a stretch, don't you think?

[+ WilliamM]

Marsha P Johnson did not throw a brick at Stonewall for a self loathing writer to be whining like this.

 

I understand his frustrations but that perspective reeks of internal conflict. I’ve never considered coming out to be “exhausting,” nor am I “sometimes out” as the author indicated he was. While he had some key points about the commercialization of “coming out,” he ultimately sounds like someone whom isn’t living in his truth. While I understand everyone’s coming out experience is individual, your

coming out journey is whatever you want it to be. Straight people do not get to decide that for you.

 

You can’t demand rights and visibility without the accompanying response from a very misinformed and curious world. To say that it wasn’t going to be his responsibility to educate, or, as he put it rather aggressively, be a “servant” to “straight wokeness,” then who is?

 

I missed Stonewall because I had just returned from serving in Vietnam in the Army. Who is Martha P Johnson?

[hypothetically]

I missed Stonewall because I had just returned from serving in Vietnam in the Army. Who is Martha P Johnson?

 

I wasn’t even born yet.

 

A gay liberation activist, drag queen, prostitute and one of the prominent figures in the Stonewall uprising.

[+ WilliamM]

I wasn’t even born yet.

 

A gay liberation activist, drag queen, prostitute and one of the prominent figures in the Stonewall uprising.

 

Thanks, my point is there were many other news worthy events that Summer. That did include President Nixon's folly of trying to rely more on the South Vietnam Army as well as the already dominant United States, Australia and South Vietnam armies.

 

Also, Woodstock and Armstrong walking on the moon as well as the Manson murders in LA.

[hypothetically]

Thanks, my point is there were many other news worthy events that Summer. That did include President Nixon's folly of trying to rely more on the South Vietnam Army as well as the already dominant United States, Australia and South Vietnam armies.

 

Also, Woodstock and Armstrong walking on the moon as well as the Manson murders in LA.

 

Not sure how we went from coming out think-piece to basic textbook history. If your goal was to undermine Stonewall with...idk, several historic milestones that don’t really have any significance to the OP, you can have it. My Marsha P Johnson comment was not made in the context to challenge anything else that happen around that time (you not knowing who she is kind of devalues the mention also). I don’t see the relevance of your statement other than you just wanting to say you served in the war?

Edited November 9, 2019 by hypothetically

[+ WilliamM]

Not sure how we went from coming out think-piece to basic textbook history. If your goal was to undermine Stonewall with...idk, several historic milestones that don’t really have any significance to the OP, you can have it. My Marsha P Johnson comment was not made in the context to challenge anything else that happen around that time (you not knowing who she is kind of devalues the mention also). I don’t see the relevance of your statement other than you just wanting to say you served in the war?

I was attempting to provide some context to Stonewall. That is why I mentioned the Viet Nam war. It was important as was the strong opposition to the. war. Also the civil rights movement in the 1960s.

Edited November 9, 2019 by WilliamM

[mike carey]

United States, Australia and South Vietnam armies

South Korean?

[+ E.T.Bass]

Example:

 

Under a theocracy the closets would be crowded with more than our noble Rebubs.

And the airport bathrooms would be even trickier for them.

[marylander1940]

Under a theocracy the closets would be crowded with more than our noble Rebubs.

And the airport bathrooms would be even trickier for them.

 

and he as SO homophobic... Poster boy for hypocrisy!

[David1024]

This is so true. I'm in education as well and it's very tricky to be "out" in this profession. I am mostly to my colleagues but to my students I obfuscate my sexuality much more. The reality is that anyone who works with minors knows that ultimately it could come down to your word against theirs and any hint of anything inappropriate is enough to ruin careers or even worse.

I recently heard a story of a female first grade teacher that made a casual reference to “my wife”. She came under huge criticism from parents in our supposedly very liberal (and affluent) community.

[+ poolboy48220]

having lunch with my sister & some of her friends, they were talking about a school curriculum that mentioned homosexuality, and one guy was outraged, "the kids are too young to hear about that!"

[MrMattBig]

having lunch with my sister & some of her friends, they were talking about a school curriculum that mentioned homosexuality, and one guy was outraged, "the kids are too young to hear about that!"

Nowadays there is just way too much overprotection about what kids learn and how fast they grow up. If they are old enough to understand, then they should know about things. And most of the time kids are able to understand a lot.

[+ quoththeraven]

having lunch with my sister & some of her friends, they were talking about a school curriculum that mentioned homosexuality, and one guy was outraged, "the kids are too young to hear about that!"

But not too young to hear about heterosexuality? (Meaning the consequences like children etc., not necessarily the nitty gritty of sex acts - although those need to be talked about at a much younger age than people are comfortable with too)

 

*smh*