Trying to find the “right” city to move to, but so hard.

[Mocha]

So going into next month, I’m city/apartment searching for landing a place to home base out of. I’ve posted up for extended periods in about 6 cities over the course of 10 years. So I have seen a few places.

 

I don’t know if it’s the general circumstances of being “new” to a city, or having to navigate the challenges or having seen many cities and making comparisons.

 

If anyone is familiar with hip hop or even regular football/sports culture, everything is all about “representing your city”. I can’t remember the last time I’ve felt like I loved a place enough to “rep” a city. When the Denver broncos won super bowl, everything was all about Denver. Even though I was in Denver, and it was nice to be a part of something, I couldn’t take pride in it because I didn’t feel I embodied the Denver “culture” or “scene”. Therefore for me to parade Denver as a city to embrace, just wasn’t me.

 

I also cringe when I turn on the news and a segment about “all the city has to offer” and “hundreds of people are moving here” comes on. All of that stuff to me is fluff, and rarely ever address gay needs as a whole, which in many cities are rarely included as a factor in the makeup of a city.

 

I’m currently looking at a couple other cities but turning up empty handed. The main 4 factors that put me off a city:

 

1. Market is either too saturated or not steady busy enough (Las Vegas, Kansas City, Atlanta)
   
2. the gay “scene” is either too limited or repressed (Salt Lake City, Nashville, Iowa, New Mexico)
   
3. the weather being too extreme: either endless summers with no winters or too long winters/cloudy days (Orlando, Minneapolis, Phoenix, Chicago)
   
4. the COL is too high (Washington DC, San Francisco, Miami, New York).
   

I’m wondering if the perfect city for me doesn’t exist in America, and I’ll have to resort to choosing whichever is the easiest city to move to for now...and working thru it’s shortcomings lol. I think of places like Brisbane, Saint Tropez, Barcelona, Prague...being places where I’d enjoy on many levels. But without work Visas or pertinent reasons and resources to get there, it’s not possible to make it a reality yet.

[+ not2rowdy]

Noticeably absent from your “put me off” list is Texas.

By population US city ranks are:

 

4 - Houston

7 - San Antonio

9 - Dallas

11 - Austin (Hub)

16 - Fort Worth

50 - Arlington

 

Day travel (maybe)

27 - Oklahoma City

49 - New Orleans

[mike carey]

I think of places like Brisbane, Saint Tropez, Barcelona, Prague...being places where I’d enjoy on many levels.

While legality wouldn't be problematic in Brisbane, coming up with a way to obtain a work visa would be very difficult unless you can suggest a business reason for one, or if you have a marketable skill that's required in Australia. Neither of those would need to be in Brisbane, although some of those visa classes are only for the duration of one specific job.

[caramelsub]

I created a similar thread a while back. Ultimately Philadelphia won for me, then Chicago for 2nd place. I haven't end up moving yet, because I'm going back to grad school in a different city. I didn't want to risk being repressed in the south, but couldn't afford nyc or some California cities, yet wanted to be able to hire a good amount of escorts when I wanted, which ruled out some midwestern cities, even though the cost of living was better. Philadelphia seems to meet all the requirements. Plus it's reasonably close to nyc, dc, and jersey. Has a lot of culture. And the weather is not overly harsh as Chicago in the winter.

 

https://m4m-forum.org/threads/inexpensive-gay-hotspot-cities-to-move-to.139949/

[David1024]

Portland, Oregon. I don’t live there but would relocate happily.

[Ryan Roman]

You might find the University of Toronto Martin Institute's creativity index help - http://martinprosperity.org/tag/creativity-index/ - for possible places to relocate. Granted, the data is 10 years old (I suspect it'll be updated after the 2020 U.S. Census) but might be useful in your search.

[+ bashful]

The right city is within. Where will your heart feel at home? Friends and family help.

 

It doesn’t happen instantly, but will all fall into place.

 

I endure cold winters, beautiful summers that occasionally become brutally hot and humid. It’s been 30 years, and a good life. When I need to get away, a non-stop flight to virtually anywhere in the world is a 25 minute cab ride from my house to the airport.

Edited May 27, 2019 by bashful

[Mocha]

The right city is within. Where will your heart feel at home? Friends and family help.

 

It doesn’t happen instantly, but will all fall into place.

 

I endure cold winters, beautiful summers that occasionally become brutally hot and humid. It’s been 30 years, and a good life. When I need to get away, a non-stop flight to virtually anywhere in the world is a 25 minute cab ride from my house to the airport.

 

Interesting, but you didn’t say which city that is? Cold winters, brutally hot and humid, non stop flight anywhere in the world....Is it Washington DC?

 

Unfortunately, friends and family don’t really factor into my decision, because previous relos doing so have ended up in regret. I thought about moving to Las Vegas to be close to some “good” people I met, but I wasn’t away but for 3 weeks before everything went bottom up. It was just that, a thot. Following my heart usually works best.

[Mocha]

Noticeably absent from your “put me off” list is Texas.

By population US city ranks are:

 

4 - Houston

7 - San Antonio

9 - Dallas

11 - Austin (Hub)

16 - Fort Worth

50 - Arlington

 

Day travel (maybe)

27 - Oklahoma City

49 - New Orleans

 

Thanks for the suggestions. The hub idea is always something to keep in mind. However, I can add in 3 optional put off-ers:

 

#5: Don’t want to pick states I’ve already lived (except maybe Colorado, which I’m debating)

#6: Don’t want states with extreme laws (seems North Carolina is one)

#7: Don't want small town big cities. Aka, cities who's economy/livelihood revolves around 1 or 2 things: e.g. A university (Austin), country music (Nashville), or a sports team (Green Bay).

 

Texas, Texas, Texas. What can I say. I read they recently passed a bill criminalizing “texting unsolicited erotic material”. That could mean just about anything

 

Texas would also land as #1 on my list: too saturated. Dallas and Houston has opportunity and potential, but everyone else is trying to get the same opportunity and potential as well. Austin lies at #4 cost of living and San Antonio at #2 with the limited (also wanted to use the word homogeneous) scene.

 

Fort Worth and Arlington I’m familiar with. Neither 2 cities have much of a business potential. I think in two years living there, I might of had like 3 to 5 clients. I would generally drive 30-40 miles to Dallas anytime I had a client.

 

Oklahoma City has mostly tapered off from where it was a few years ago, I have made a couple trips there this year. There’s still clients there, but usually after 1 or 2 days, it dries up.

 

New Orleans, I don’t have a ton of experience in...but I have been thru there and Baton Rouge. Based on the demographics of the area, I just don’t envision it being a hot spot for me.

 

This isn’t to pick apart your suggestions, but I’m glad you brought it up because that’s what makes it so hard to choose. Places may look good on the map, on paper, but they may not be suitable for my needs. Of course cities change, my brand changes, and new clients are born daily. So it’s not gospel.

 

I have a former client who’s moving back to Colorado from Atlanta because he couldn’t find the opportunities he went for. I’m like yeah, Atlanta is the most cutthroat city in the south next to Miami, for finding jobs or clients. After spending a week in Los Angeles earlier this month, I said if Atlanta and Miami were to ever panagea together, that's what Los Angeles is.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Mocha

[JayCeeKy]

I have a friend who made a small fortune in installing HVAC systems in Kentucky, even though he was from the New York area. When I asked him how he decided to start his business in crappy old Kentucky he said that he went to the local library in New York and did some research on what part of the country has the least number of HVAC units per population - and Kentucky and WVA came up tops. In other words, the key to success was doing his research first. I am guessing that, as far as escorts, the two Coasts (East and West) are probably over-saturated, as are the Florida and Atlanta areas. I would further guess, based on many years of shopping for escorts both online and in vivo, that the most under-served populations are in the Midwest and the South. Since you say that you don't want to live in any oppressive/hostile areas, I'm guessing that the deep South is a no-go. That leaves metro areas in the Midwest (and possibly the Mountain areas, though you say you don't want Denver). Based on these ideas, I am wondering if you might not consider Midwest Metro areas where the cost-of-living is low, has good transportation facilities, and is gay-friendly. Given that criteria, you may want to consider Cleveland, Columbus, Indianapolis (Indiana is a Red State but, like Louisville, the cities are much more liberal than the rural areas), and perhaps St. Louis, or Louisville. Louisville, you say??? See @caramelsub comment above to verify that it is, indeed, one of the gay hotspots in the US. And, the cost-of-living (esp housing) is extremely low. Just my 2 cents.

 

Wanna see how low the cost of homes are in Louisville? Old Louisville is the gayest part of town, and also has the highest number of Victorian-style mansions in the US. To see some of them and their prices, go to

https://www.homesinlouisville.com/idx/results/#city_Louisville/subdiv_Old%20Louisville/

Edited May 27, 2019 by JayCeeKy

[+ Pensant]

Was in Louisville in early March. Very affordable, great food scene and proximity to many larger cities. It also has a lovely park system and parkways designed by Frederick Law Olmsted. If I weren’t already living in two different areas of the country, I’d consider moving there.

[mike carey]

I endure cold winters, beautiful summers that occasionally become brutally hot and humid. It’s been 30 years, and a good life. When I need to get away, a non-stop flight to virtually anywhere in the world is a 25 minute cab ride from my house to the airport.

Interesting, but you didn’t say which city that is? Cold winters, brutally hot and humid, non stop flight anywhere in the world....Is it Washington DC?

I suspect that Los Angeles is the only big city in the US that would meet the 'anywhere' test, although I'm not sure of that. I live in one part of the world that is the exception that the 'virtually' allows for cities in the north east, which the climate description implies. Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Doha seem to have non-stop flights to everywhere but the cold winters and beautiful summers part hardly applies.

[+ bashful]

Interesting, but you didn’t say which city that is? Cold winters, brutally hot and humid, non stop flight anywhere in the world....Is it Washington DC?

 

Unfortunately, friends and family don’t really factor into my decision, because previous relos doing so have ended up in regret. I thought about moving to Las Vegas to be close to some “good” people I met, but I wasn’t away but for 3 weeks before everything went bottom up. It was just that, a thot. Following my heart usually works best.

 

Chicago. I put up with high taxes too, and the rents I hear are high. Summer is the best time. Only occasionally too hot/humid.

[mike carey]

Chicago. I put up with high taxes too, and the rents I hear are high. Summer is the best time. Only occasionally too hot/humid.

Well, Chicago does get you non-stop to Auckland.

[+ bashful]

Well, Chicago does get you non-stop to Auckland.

 

Probably more accurate if I said any part of the world (not anywhere). Except Africa. Have to make one stop/connection.

[mike carey]

Probably more accurate if I said any part of the world (not anywhere). Except Africa. Have to make one stop/connection.

No, you said virtually anywhere, and that is true. Living in Australia, I'm acutely aware of where I can go non-stop and where a stopover is necessary. My measure is where I can go with only one stop.

 

(Interesting the bit starting with 'Except Africa' wasn't in your post but showed up when I hit 'Reply'. Edit: The words now appear above. And there are non-stop flights from the US to Cape Town and/or Joburg, not sure if they are from Chicago.)

Edited May 28, 2019 by mike carey

[+ azdr0710]

"Don't want small town big cities. Aka, cities who's economy/livelihood revolves around 1 or 2 things: e.g. A university (Austin), country music (Nashville)"

 

Austin and Nashville are very definitely NOT one-industry cities, as you suggest they are......Austin is also the capital of Texas and has a thriving tech industry (also derisively nicknamed the "People's Republic Of Austin" and "Moscow On The Colorado" for its liberal reputation).....and Nashville has big-tech and several large colleges.......very diverse economies in both cities......

 

despite the cold winters, if I were you...........

 

Edited May 28, 2019 by azdr0710

[Beancounter]

I’m amused by Mr. Mocha’s search for a new city to relocate. I went back and researched his previous postings about places he hates (and there is an abundance of them). Here’s one:

 

https://www.companyofmen.org/threads/hiring-local-talent.114554/page-2#post-1105135

 

He’s bad-mouthed Dallas so many times I can’t even phantom why he’d even consider Dallas, let alone Texas. I’ve never fully understood his verbose and rambling posts though. I think it’s my fault......senility is beginning to set in.

[+ keroscenefire]

I do love living in Denver, though it's getting very expensive here and it would be hard to drive to any nearby cities like you can do in some other regions. However, you can get virtually anywhere in the US from DIA and often fairly affordably.

 

But it sounds like from your last time living here, it didn't vibe with you very well, so maybe it's just not a good fit.

[Cannon]

Anywhere you go there will be pros and cons. I live in Los Angeles and feel so at home here. I'm originally from Colorado and I think Denver is great as well. You may want to consider Chicago or Philadelphia.I think you are approaching it the right way, by spending extended periods of time and seeing where you will feel most at home and where your business will perform well.

[+ Pensant]

"Don't want small town big cities. Aka, cities who's economy/livelihood revolves around 1 or 2 things: e.g. A university (Austin), country music (Nashville)"

 

Austin and Nashville are very definitely NOT one-industry cities, as you suggest they are......Austin is also the capital of Texas and has a thriving tech industry (also derisively nicknamed the "People's Republic Of Austin" and "Moscow On The Colorado" for its liberal reputation).....and Nashville has big-tech and several large colleges.......very diverse economies in both cities......

 

despite the cold winters, if I were you...........

 

Nashville is also the center of the healthcare services business and has a large financial and logistics industry. Additionally, Amazon is building two towers in Midtown to house its retail and logistics operations and Alliance Bernstein is relocating its headquarters from NYC to downtown Nashville.

[Mocha]

"Don't want small town big cities. Aka, cities who's economy/livelihood revolves around 1 or 2 things: e.g. A university (Austin), country music (Nashville)"

 

Austin and Nashville are very definitely NOT one-industry cities, as you suggest they are......Austin is also the capital of Texas and has a thriving tech industry (also derisively nicknamed the "People's Republic Of Austin" and "Moscow On The Colorado" for its liberal reputation).....and Nashville has big-tech and several large colleges.......very diverse economies in both cities......

 

despite the cold winters, if I were you........

 

I’m not suggesting. Those towns ABSOLUTELY only revolve around 1 OR 2 things. It’s a fact.

 

Like I said...known for 1 OR 2 things. You named 2 things. Tech and University. Same with Nashville: Tech and University and Country Music. I been to Austin a few times while I lived in San Antonio and lived in Nashville over a year. I know what’s up.

 

There’s nothing bad about country music, or tech or universities. BUT...my experience in those type of cities is either A) if you’re not affiliated with the above, you’re considered an outsider or B) assumed that you came to the area for those opportunities. Why else would I move to either of those cities otherwise? Nashville and Austin aren’t cities people move to for shits and giggles.

 

When I told people in Denver I was moving to Nashville, first thing people said was, “for country music?”. Yes, it’s a stereotype and misconception and I know Austin and Nashville are known for other things...but the core of the city for both places is either the Texas LongHorns for Austin or the Broadway live music in Nashville. Without those, don’t tell me that either city would be recognizable on the map. It just wouldn’t be. All the tech stuff and satellite industries simply revolve around those things.

 

Also Austin and Nashville just overall aren’t the busiest cities for me work-wise so I wouldn’t even look at them as relocation spots again.

 

One thing I liked about Palm Springs, is people don’t ask, “so why did you move here???” Or “why would you leave Florida to come HERE??” (As every person in Kansas City asks me). People move to Palm Springs for no other reason but to be gay and themselves. I want to be able to move to a city for no other reason, but to be ME. Not to be a part of what that city has going on for itself.

[Mocha]

I’m amused by Mr. Mocha’s search for a new city to relocate. I went back and researched his previous postings about places he hates (and there is an abundance of them). Here’s one:

 

https://www.companyofmen.org/threads/hiring-local-talent.114554/page-2#post-1105135

 

He’s bad-mouthed Dallas so many times I can’t even phantom why he’d even consider Dallas, let alone Texas. I’ve never fully understood his verbose and rambling posts though. I think it’s my fault......senility is beginning to set in.

 

Yes, you’re absolutely right. I can’t FATHOM it either. I have talked some things Dallas, but I’ve also gone back to visit and had a good time, and went home. That’s my relationship with Texas now. I go to visit, and after a couple days or so I leave. And? Just because I “bad mouth” a place doesn’t mean much in the scheme of things.

 

Let me ask: how much time have YOU spent in Dallas? I was there for over 2 years, so I can talk a bit of shit about it. Do I need to remind you why? Between the racism, the crime, the alcoholism, the high police presence/profiling, the annual (flying) cricket plague, the traffic, the long commutes, the untrustworthy “Dallitude” gay scene, megachurches and overall Bible Belt location, racist Whites, mean Blacks, rude Hispanics, relentless 100 degree summers, constant allergies/air quality issues, tons of stray cats, icy winters where you walk out and your car is encased in ice...

 

Yeah, gotta love Dallas. But that’s not the point of the topic, is it? That said...I respect Texas and their cities and lots of fun can be had. However, it’s one thing to visit and another to live. And if you’re not living in a prestigious neighborhood (bubble) in Dallas, you’re going to see the “other” side of Texas.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Mocha

[Mocha]

Nashville is also the center of the healthcare services business and has a large financial and logistics industry. Additionally, Amazon is building two towers in Midtown to house its retail and logistics operations and Alliance Bernstein is relocating its headquarters from NYC to downtown Nashville.

 

But the problem is, Nashville has become nearly unaffordable in many levels. Just to get a hotel in the city for the night, is over $200 a night. I had an apartment there 2015-2017, a basic box of an apartment with few amenities. No pool, no fitness center, outside parking. Mediocre area of town near the airport, but down the hill was the MEXI-ghetto. They threw some remodeling on it and called it a “boutique” apartment built a Mercedes dealership close by off of i40 and Briley parkway. By the time I left, they had gone up to over $800 a month. I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s $1,000 now. It was a miserable apartment in miserable city. And when winter hit, I think my cat was the only one that pretty much prevented me from wanting to kill myself in that apartment some days. When I moved, I had to let her go. But she served a purpose during a miserable time. I actually do miss that place from time to time. It’s sad because just as I was moving, I finally met who I think could have been my dream man.

 

I was barely making a dime in Nashville. I had my own place to host in the city, and 2 cars to do outcalls...and was still not making any major money. It wasn’t until I left that I started making the money I deserve. Kansas City and Nashville are twins in how the “scene” operates. Both cities are full of flakes and bullshitters who rarely follow thru.

 

A couple big businesses and tech startups moving to a city don’t impress me. It’s the mentality and overall setup of the city. Nashville has lots of money savvy queens strutting around, but guess what? It’s all kept “in the family”. They also look down on sex work in that city, as once again...the whole Bible Belt location plays a part.

 

Most open minded people aren’t going to accept jobs in cities that seem overly conservative. Therefore, even if a big company moves someplace, that may only bring in an extra 1 or 2 clients...if any.

 

I think @VictorPowers could relate, considering Salt Lake City has been dubbed “Wall Street of the West”. That doesn’t mean you’re going to get the same results as being on the New York Wall Street.

Edited May 29, 2019 by Mocha

[Mocha]

I do love living in Denver, though it's getting very expensive here and it would be hard to drive to any nearby cities like you can do in some other regions. However, you can get virtually anywhere in the US from DIA and often fairly affordably.

 

But it sounds like from your last time living here, it didn't vibe with you very well, so maybe it's just not a good fit.

 

I’ve already established that if I go forward with settling back in Colorado, things will be different than before. I’ll be living IN Denver, versus the outer suburbs where I was before. Even though I had access to get to the city at all times, I think living in the west suburbs cut me off from some of the social scene. I still had to “drive” to socialize. Versus just be able to walk around and down the street. I stayed at the Downtown/Colfax hotels earlier this month, and it was much easier to meet people. This time, I’d be coming with someone who’s also relocating back, and has connections.

 

However, part of me is still concerned Denver might ultimately be a step backwards. The long driving distances weren’t a big deal for me, but it’s a factor when there’s not enough cities within range to meet clients. Many of the villages to the west are sporadic with clients, the small Wyoming market died off once craigslist died, Montana has been a nearly non-existent market, and the only major cities is a 400+ mile drive in either direction

 

 

Anywhere you go there will be pros and cons. I live in Los Angeles and feel so at home here. I'm originally from Colorado and I think Denver is great as well. You may want to consider Chicago or Philadelphia.I think you are approaching it the right way, by spending extended periods of time and seeing where you will feel most at home and where your business will perform well.

 

Well that’s good. I was just in Los Angeles last month. I had a good time on my last visit, but I can’t see myself living there. $4.50 per gallon was grating my nerves fast when pushing a V8 with 20 MPG. And my haircut in LA was $35! A black haircut usually is never more than $20-25 in any city. Guys there have told me California and LA is just all about money. Spend, spend, spend...more than what shit is worth. I’m just not with all the over priced stuff.

 

But what about it makes you feel at home?

Edited May 29, 2019 by Mocha