Since It's The Season-When Did You Learn The Awful Truth?

[+ Gar1eth]

(I may have asked this a few years ago. But if I did, I don't remember the responses).

 

The Sun's Editorial to Virgina notwithstanding, I am going to take the position (spoiler alert) that there is no Santa Claus.

 

The reason I ask is that we had a family Christmas dinner on Christmas (part of my family is Christian). Something was said about presents, and I in turn said (with the children being out of the room), "Do Y and Z still believe in Santa Claus". Y and Z are my twin 8 year old nephews. Their father assured me they did.

 

I have to admit to being a bit shocked considering all the info that's readily available to children nowadays on TV, the internet, and books.

 

I think I learned long before the age of 7. A lot of this was probably due to being Jewish. I have a vague memory of being around three years old, going to a neighbor's Easter Egg hunt, and wondering why the Easter Bunny didn't leave eggs at our house. I'm not actually sure if this is a true memory or not. But I remember my mother telling me there was no such thing as the Easter Bunny. I think over time I extrapolated this to patrons of other holidays.

 

A few years later when I was around 5 I can remember visiting Santa at a mall. I remember whispering to my Dad that Santa didn't know we were Jewish. But I can't remember for sure whether I knew about Santa at that point - and thought it was funny that I'd sit on a fake Santa's lap or if I thought the guy was real. I know for sure that either by 1st grade-2nd at the very latest I knew the truth.

 

In fact my mother tells this story (Note: I don't remember this event at all) that when I was in 1st grade some family friend thought it was terrible I didn't believe. Asked my Mom whether it was ok to come over to our house dressed as Santa. My parents gave permission. So one night in December while we were eating dinner, there's a knock on the door. My family probably told me to go answer the door. I was most likely excited to do that because the door was almost never for me that age. So I answered it, and there was Jolly Old St. Nick. My Mom says my eyes became really wide. But I doubt that convinced me for long. I mean I had figured out that the (ANOTHER SPOILER) Tooth Fairy was fake by the age of 5. At that point I still hadn't lost any teeth. But I wanted some rewards like my older brother and sister were getting. So I told my parents that there was a Tissue Fairy who collected tissues. And once or twice I told my parents at my bedtime that I had put a tissue under my pillow. And they played along and gave me a dime or quarter.

 

Gman

[+ poolboy48220]

I think I learned about 6 years old. My parents told my younger (by one year) sister and me together, my older sister (3 years older) already knew. I remember a classmate talking about Santa a couple years lateer in third grade, but wasn't sure if she really still believed, or had just been instructed by her parents to keep up the facade.

[marylander1940]

Much too late.

 

I don’t have a single picture of my kids with Santa. Even at 3, when we’d try to raise the Santa hype, they’d look at us with this “you don’t really think I’m that dumb” look on their face.

 

I think I learned about 6 years old. My parents told my younger (by one year) sister and me together, my older sister (3 years older) already knew. I remember a classmate talking about Santa a couple years lateer in third grade, but wasn't sure if she really still believed, or had just been instructed by her parents to keep up the facade.

 

"Are you still a believer in Santa?"

 

 

As @Awwshuck pointed many times the President just can't lie. It's not on his DNA

[+ E.T.Bass]

My a-hole older brothers ruined it for me quite early. They were heartless fucks.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

I'm not sure what age I was, but it was my younger sister who told me. I think she had gotten up in the middle of the night to see if Santa had been there and end up watching our parents putting together the toys.

[Guest]

I never believed in Santa. My mother told me she'd never lie to her children. I respect her for that.

[TruHart1]

Raised in a very religious home, my parents told me early on (about age 5) that the real reason for Christmas had nothing to do with Santa and he really did not exist as a person. They couched it as though it was inside information though, and I was never to tell my non-believer friends in school, since they might still believe in Santa.

 

Over my growing up years, my Mom introduced me to the classic letter to the Sun newspaper from Virginia, whose answer was, "Yes, Virginia, there IS a Santa Claus" and which my Mom explained was more about the good spirit of Christmas and did not negate "The Reason for the Season!" in our religious belief system!

 

TruHart1

[bostonman]

I'm not sure what age I was, but it was my younger sister who told me. I think she had gotten up in the middle of the night to see if Santa had been there and end up watching our parents putting together the toys.

 

I hope they tried to explain that Santa couldn't stay, but that he left all the instructions...

 

Like Gar1eth, I'm Jewish. My father's side of the family was orthodox when they wanted to be (lol), my mother's side of the family was essentially reform, if that. We didn't keep kosher at home, etc, though we did celebrate the major holidays (I have a faint memory of my dad trying to teach me the Hebrew words to the Hanukkah candle blessings way before I was even old enough to understand what this was all about - I repeated the odd sounding words after him, then he lit the candles, and I got presents, lol.)

 

But we didn't celebrate Christmas. And I have to say, I was barely aware of the whole culture of the holiday. I have another memory, of doing group singing of Christmas carols in music class in elementary school (probably kindergarten or first grade?), and having no f-ing idea what we were singing. Heavenly peas? Round John version? Something about a "Mr. Fezziwee?" I was absolutely clueless. And feeling a little left out, to be honest, because it did seem like all my other friends, even the jewish ones, seemed to know these songs. Maybe I just hadn't been paying attention, lol? I'm sure I knew about Christmas trees and all that, but since we didn't do any of that at home, it didn't seem to register somehow.

 

(btw - I still have no idea where the Fezziwig song came from - something like "Mr. Fezziwig / Wears a wig / O-on his head..." with a kind of catchy vaudeville/music hall-ish tune - a song I've never heard in any version of A Christmas Carol I've ever seen. Was it from some school play version I didn't see? Who knows?

 

But it was probably also right around that same time that I discovered all those classic Xmas cartoon specials - the Rankin/Bass stuff, the Charlie Brown Christmas, Boris Karloff's peerless Grinch, etc. But again, that's all I really knew about the holiday. So, I did get my understanding of Santa from stuff like "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town" - but at the same time, I think I knew that all this had nothing to do with me.

 

I do remember my mom explaining to me, still at an early age, that Santa was all pretend. I don't think I was surprised lol. Eventually of course I also learned that there was no Burgermeister Meisterburger, or the elf that wanted to be a dentist, or Clarise the Reindeer, etc, or any of that stuff from the cartoons lol.

 

But then again, biblical scholars have been pointing out for years that Jesus was most likely born in the spring or summer (no frozen shepherds in the fields, let alone nuns in frigid cells), it was probably Joseph's family's house that had no room to take care of the suspiciously pregnant Mary (not an "inn" in the way we know them) and the surely filthy smelly barn with the manger was anything but a sanctified, pretty venue, let alone a safe place for a newborn child. (We are to understand that it was "a lowly manger" but we never get the rest of the lurid description lol.) So, even the way the story has been told to and by little Christian children for years, beautiful shiny creches and all, really isn't anything close to what actually happened. So, does it really matter if Santa is real or not?

 

What's much more important, of course, is that the Grinch's heart grew three sizes that day. We KNOW that happened.

Edited December 28, 2018 by bostonman

[TruthBTold]

I never believed in Santa. My mother told me she'd never lie to her children. I respect her for that.

 

I also never really believed in Santa. I think I realized that I was gay very early and just not into Daddies so he was never really in my repertoire.

[+ purplekow]

I never believed in Santa. My mother told me she'd never lie to her children. I respect her for that.

In any case, isn't that the biggest lie anyone can tell, that they will always be truthful with you? Believe that one and I have a bridge for sale.

[+ Gar1eth]

I hope they tried to explain that Santa couldn't stay, but that he left all the instructions...

 

Like Gar1eth, I'm Jewish. My father's side of the family was orthodox when they wanted to be (lol), my mother's side of the family was essentially reform, if that. We didn't keep kosher at home, etc, though we did celebrate the major holidays (I have a faint memory of my dad trying to teach me the Hebrew words to the Hanukkah candle blessings way before I was even old enough to understand what this was all about - I repeated the odd sounding words after him, then he lit the candles, and I got presents, lol.)

 

But we didn't celebrate Christmas. And I have to say, I was barely aware of the whole culture of the holiday. I have another memory, of doing group singing of Christmas carols in music class in elementary school (probably kindergarten or first grade?), and having no f-ing idea what we were singing. Heavenly peas? Round John version? Something about a "Mr. Fezziwee?" I was absolutely clueless. And feeling a little left out, to be honest, because it did seem like all my other friends, even the jewish ones, seemed to know these songs. Maybe I just hadn't been paying attention, lol? I'm sure I knew about Christmas trees and all that, but since we didn't do any of that at home, it didn't seem to register somehow.

 

(btw - I still have no idea where the Fezziwig song came from - something like "Mr. Fezziwig / Wears a wig / O-on his head..." with a kind of catchy vaudeville/music hall-ish tune - a song I've never heard in any version of A Christmas Carol I've ever seen. Was it from some school play version I didn't see? Who knows?

 

But it was probably also right around that same time that I discovered all those classic Xmas cartoon specials - the Rankin/Bass stuff, the Charlie Brown Christmas, Boris Karloff's peerless Grinch, etc. But again, that's all I really knew about the holiday. So, I did get my understanding of Santa from stuff like "Santa Claus Is Coming To Town" - but at the same time, I think I knew that all this had nothing to do with me.

 

I do remember my mom explaining to me, still at an early age, that Santa was all pretend. I don't think I was surprised lol. Eventually of course I also learned that there was no Burgermeister Meisterburger, or the elf that wanted to be a dentist, or Clarise the Reindeer, etc, or any of that stuff from the cartoons lol.

 

But then again, biblical scholars have been pointing out for years that Jesus was most likely born in the spring or summer (no frozen shepherds in the fields, let alone nuns in frigid cells), it was probably Joseph's family's house that had no room to take care of the suspiciously pregnant Mary (not an "inn" in the way we know them) and the surely filthy smelly barn with the manger was anything but a sanctified, pretty venue, let alone a safe place for a newborn child. (We are to understand that it was "a lowly manger" but we never get the rest of the lurid description lol.) So, even the way the story has been told to and by little Christian children for years, beautiful shiny creches and all, really isn't anything close to what actually happened. So, does it really matter if Santa is real or not?

 

What's much more important, of course, is that the Grinch's heart grew three sizes that day. We KNOW that happened.

 

My family was originally Consevative-well it's complicated. My Dad's father's family wasn't that religious. My Dad's mother's family at one point was Conservative. My Mom's father originally went to the Orthodox Shul, but my Mom quit going there because the Rabbi or Cantor used to yell at the kids.

 

In any case my Dad's mother's family customs prevailed and we were Conservative. Then when I was 4 we moved to a city where there was a Reform Temple and an Orthodox Shul. And my parents chose the Reform Temple, and that's where we stayed.

 

And while my family wasn't overly religious, we celebrated all the major Jewish holidays. We lit the Hanukkah candles every year. My mother lit the Shabbat candles weekly. I went to Sunday school. My brother and I had bar mitzvahs. My sister didn't -and I think there was a bit of male preference there. We had just moved, and I don't know what happened. I've heard it said the rabbi of the city we moved to wasn't that fond of Bat Mitzvahs. But I don't really know.

 

But I knew all about the superficial observances of Holidays like Christmas and Easter. I knew all the songs, went on Easter Egg Hunts etc.

When you are surrounded by Christians since birth it's easy to pick up. Did you by some chance grow up in a mainly Jewish neighborhood where these things wouldn't have been as common?

 

Gman

[+ FreshFluff]

When I was about 5, our new neighbors invited us to a Christmas party. The youngest daughter Was really excited about what Santa was going to bring her. After we got home, I asked my parents why Santa wasnt bringing me anything. They rolled their eyes and told me. The SC fantasy was very new to me and made little to me, so I wasn’t too disappointed.

[+ Eric Hassan]

i had a hunch by about 7 that santa wasn't real - especially when i noticed that all the gift tags had handwriting that looked exactly like my mother's very distinctive handwriting. she confirmed it for me either that year or the year adter in her typical brusque manner: she had purchased new snow boots for me - intending to give them for christmas - but wanted to make sure they fit, so she asked me to try them on and said "you know there's no santa, don't you?" my mother has never been one for rounding the corners or softening the blow.

[+ Gar1eth]

i had a hunch by about 7 that santa wasn't real - especially when i noticed that all the gift tags had handwriting that looked exactly like my mother's very distinctive handwriting. she confirmed it for me either that year or the year adter in her typical brusque manner: she had purchased new snow boots for me - intending to give them for christmas - but wanted to make sure they fit, so she asked me to try them on and said "you know there's no santa, don't you?" my mother has never been one for rounding the corners or softening the blow.

 

YIKES!!

 

Gman

[bostonman]

Did you by some chance grow up in a mainly Jewish neighborhood where these things wouldn't have been as common?

 

I really don't remember what my initial neighborhood was like, but I suspect it wasn't all that Jewish. When I was 6, we moved to a suburb that had a balance of everything but certainly had a decent amount of Jewish visibility - though I think a lot of the neighbors on our very small street were wasps lol.

 

As I said, I'm sure I was aware of Christmas trees and the holiday in general, to some extent - I guess it was more that since we didn't have a tree and didn't celebrate the holiday at my house, I just assumed this was something I didn't need to know all that much about. But also, this was the late 1960's, and somehow I tend to think that the constant in-our-faces commercialization of Christmas was nothing like it is now. I think had I been born even a decade later it would have been that much harder to ignore lol.

 

I tend to think that I wasn't quite as naive as I describe now - but I do remember things like not being familiar with a song like "Silent Night" and stuff like that. But I guess, same as now, that the general assumption is that "everyone" knows the standard Xmas carols even if they're not Christian. But hey - we do have to learn them at some point lol - I was just a bit on the later side with that.

[+ poolboy48220]

i had a hunch by about 7 that santa wasn't real - especially when i noticed that all the gift tags had handwriting that looked exactly like my mother's very distinctive handwriting.

I'd forgotten about that! A year or two before we were officially told there was no Santa, I noticed that the letter from Santa thanking us for the cookies we'd left was in my mother's handwriting.

[bostonman]

One has to think, though - do young kids ever wonder why Santa seems to be at all the malls at once, etc? Is that just some amazing kind of magic, akin to visiting all those billions of chimneys all over the world in one night? (And wouldn't he really be up at the North Pole getting ready for the big sleigh ride?)

 

Oh, to be that innocent again...

[+ Gar1eth]

One has to think, though - do young kids ever wonder why Santa seems to be at all the malls at once, etc? Is that just some amazing kind of magic, akin to visiting all those billions of chimneys all over the world in one night? (And wouldn't he really be up at the North Pole getting ready for the big sleigh ride?)

 

Oh, to be that innocent again...

 

At some point when the child asks, they are often told those are Santa's Helpers.

 

Gman

[Guest]

In any case, isn't that the biggest lie anyone can tell, that they will always be truthful with you? Believe that one and I have a bridge for sale.

If she ever lied to me, I never caught her. I personally never lie, unless it's to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Even then, I try to be vaguely truthful in the lie. For example, if I were visiting a demented old man in a nursing home whose wife died two years ago, and asked each time where his wife is, it would be unkind to tell him each time that his wife was dead. Saying something like "You'll see her soon," or "You'll be with her soon" seems more humane. If a woman wearing an ugly dress asks me what I think about it, I may say "I appreciate the vibrant colors" or something like that.

[bostonman]

I personally never lie, unless it's to avoid hurting someone's feelings. Even then, I try to be vaguely truthful in the lie. For example, if I were visiting a demented old man in a nursing home whose wife died two years ago, and asked each time where his wife is, it would be unkind to tell him each time that his wife was dead. Saying something like "You'll see her soon," or "You'll be with her soon" seems more humane. If a woman wearing an ugly dress asks me what I think about it, I may say "I appreciate the vibrant colors" or something like that.

 

Slightly off-topic for the thread, but you just jogged my memory about something. There is a debate event called "The Great American Think-Off" which I first stumbled upon on C-Span (of all places) - that particular year (1998), the topic was "Is Honesty Always The Best Policy?" I didn't know that the Think-off is still alive and well - I just found their website (here) and also a video of that particular debate (here). It's over 3 hours long, but I remember it as being a fun debate, and some of you might have fun watching it at some point.

 

 

 

here

[+ sync]

I don't remember exactly when the Santa thing unraveled, but I remember that it didn't have any impact. It was the Betty Crocker revelation that rocked my world.