Gay men and cheating breeders

[wbtravis]

Been hearing some judgment of a couple of guys who are married to women, and best buddies... and a long term couple on the side. Some of the gay men I know warn of doom and getting caught, saying they should come out now. (They are in their early 50’s.) Some get very judgy and say “How dare you make decisions your wives don’t have a say in.” They contend that it’s actually less selfish of them to stay married and make sure that the wives remain blissfully in the dark, happy, and feeling loved - than divorced at 50. Their contention is that the guys would marry and live a pretty great life, despite some local scandal - but that the women will suffer financially as well as to have more difficulty (statistically) finding new partners. This makes sense to me. It actually does seem less selfish to lie to the women and cheat with each other while making sure the wives have a good life, than to break it up for their own ability to move on. Assuming the women have no STD risks, and the guys are not living a sad life of “less than”... could it be that this is a good situation, despite all of my moral learning? The guys seem so happy as best buddies publicly- and I know privately they are very much in love. Has me thinking...

[+ FrankR]

Been hearing some judgment of a couple of guys who are married to women, and best buddies... and a long term couple on the side. Some of the gay men I know warn of doom and getting caught, saying they should come out now. (They are in their early 50’s.) Some get very judgy and say “How dare you make decisions your wives don’t have a say in.” They contend that it’s actually less selfish of them to stay married and make sure that the wives remain blissfully in the dark, happy, and feeling loved - than divorced at 50. Their contention is that the guys would marry and live a pretty great life, despite some local scandal - but that the women will suffer financially as well as to have more difficulty (statistically) finding new partners. This makes sense to me. It actually does seem less selfish to lie to the women and cheat with each other while making sure the wives have a good life, than to break it up for their own ability to move on. Assuming the women have no STD risks, and the guys are not living a sad life of “less than”... could it be that this is a good situation, despite all of my moral learning? The guys seem so happy as best buddies publicly- and I know privately they are very much in love. Has me thinking...

Will freely admit that I dont always understand other people’s choices. Nor do I know what is right for others or feel obligated to judge. Treat others as you want to be treated has never steered me wrong.

 

Can only say that this arrangement wouldnt work for me. I take my commitments and contractual agreements seriously - a marriage is both. Keeping the women in the dark is clearly dishonest and contrary to the commitment and contractual agreement of marriage, as I see it. No thank you.

 

I would not ‘out’ the guys and I would not lie for them. Now what about the women though...

 

Putting myself in the woman’s shoes, how would I feel if I found out 10 years from now that my husband was cheating on me. That my friends (i assume you are a friend?) knew and couldn’t bother to tell me that my husband was cheating and making a fool of me in the process by pretending to be loyal etc. Boy, a lot of pain there... I wont call this a good situation.

Edited August 28, 2018 by FrankR

[Chuckball]

Who are any of us to judge another provided no one is being physically or financially harmed. Surely alerting a spouse to a straying partner would do significant emotional harm to both partners. Simply stay the hell out of other people's lives and don't impose your own morality on others.

[Walker1]

Why is this a gay thing? Lots of straight men and women cheat on their spouses too? None of my business-only would concern me if the spouse being cheated on is a close friend/relative of mine. But that has nothing to do with gay-just being a good friend.

[+ SundayZip]

Why is this a gay thing? Lots of straight men and women cheat on their spouses too? None of my business-only would concern me if the spouse being cheated on is a close friend/relative of mine. But that has nothing to do with gay-just being a good friend.

 

This is good way to look at it. What would your judgement be if it was the straight husband of one couple was cheating with the straight wife of another couple?

[LookingAround]

Didn’t Netflix handle this one already with Grace and Frankie?

[Walker1]

This is good way to look at it. What would your judgement be if it was the straight husband of one couple was cheating with the straight wife of another couple?

The same. If I am not connected closely, none of my business. If the one being cheated on is a very close friend of mine , I would let them know-but that is as a friend not out of judgement.

[+ HornyRetiree]

OMG! Can’t people live and let live and STOP JUDGING others who live differently than they do!

 

People need to come down off their high horses and just worry about and take care of themselves.

 

I was married to a woman for 20 years - 20 good years! And lived a very secret double life. When we divorced, it was for things other than my being Gay - I came out to her after the divorce so she would hear it from me first.

 

After the divorce I had emotions on both ends of the spectrum - sorry to lose someone I loved and had a good life with AND excited to be free to be 100% me!

 

That marriage kept me from being a panel on The Quilt! As I had to be VERY careful not to bring anything home! (‘76-‘96)

 

No one has the right to judge my personal decisions in this period (or any period) of my life.

 

It is a FULL TIME JOB taking care of and managing yourself! STICK TO THE GUY IN THE MIRROR

[+ SundayZip]

OMG! Can’t people live and let live and STOP JUDGING others who live differently than they do!

 

People need to come down off their high horses and just worry about and take care of themselves.

 

I was married to a woman for 20 years - 20 good years! And lived a very secret double life. When we divorced, it was for things other than my being Gay - I came out to her after the divorce so she would hear it from me first.

 

After the divorce I had emotions on both ends of the spectrum - sorry to lose someone I loved and had a good life with AND excited to be free to be 100% me!

 

That marriage kept me from being a panel on The Quilt! As I had to be VERY careful not to bring anything home! (‘76-‘96)

 

No one has the right to judge my personal decisions in this period (or any period) of my life.

 

It is a FULL TIME JOB taking care of and managing yourself! STICK TO THE GUY IN THE MIRROR

 

@HornyRetiree, Are you suggesting that people should not offer an opinion regarding the OP's post unless it is to say, "nobody else's damn business"?

[+ FrankR]

It is fine to say that we should not judge others - I try not to, but sometimes we have no choice but to consider the impact of their actions.

 

As an example, a few years ago I had an employee and became aware that he was cheating on his wife. The employee was in a position of trust. I had no choice but to take into account his actions and ask myself: he is lying to his wife (he admitted it and they did not have an ‘open’ marriage) and he has demonstrated that he cannot be trusted in a material respect, how can I not question his character and suitability for this role in the business? If he ended up abusing the trust and the business got sued, my judgment could be questioned for being aware of this ‘character flaw’ and not acting. To make it even harder, by this time I had known the employee for many years and considered him a friend - as in, we had lunch together most work days.

 

Ultimately I had to sit him down and explain that he would not have any future career prospects and I would advise him to seek employment elsewhere...

 

Not a fun experience.

 

To this day I believe I acted appropriately. You may disagree.

[+ Keith30309]

...a few years ago I had an employee and became aware that he was cheating on his wife. The employee was in a position of trust. I had no choice but to take into account his actions and ask myself: he is lying to his wife (he admitted it and they did not have an ‘open’ marriage) and he has demonstrated that he cannot be trusted in a material respect, how can I not question his character and suitability for this role in the business?

 

When I was a wee tot and took my first job with a large corporation I was strongly encouraged to be a good corporate citizen and give a predesignated percentage of my pay to The United Way.

 

I had a moral issue with one of the quasi-religious charities on the list and told my boss I didn’t want to contribute.

 

He took me aside and privately told me that was perfectly fine. However part of my performance appraisal was related to “decision making skills” and he would consider my action to be a poor decision and indicative of ability to make other decisions in the future. That would limit any career advancement I hoped to have.

 

I made the good decision and got the lapel pin.

[TruthBTold]

There are so many different takes on this situation. I will address only one. I am friends with a married couple and the man tells me that he thinks he may be gay. After he tells me that he begins to have an affair with another man. While I understand that his sexual need is different in both situations he has made a promise to his wife, also my friend, about their marriage. I speak to him and ask him if he has spoken to his wife both about his sexuality and the fact that his sexuality has driven him to have an affair outside their marriage. I tell him that I am equally friends with his wife and that I owe her a duty as a friend. I tell him that he must alert her that he is having an affair or end it. I would also tell him that whether he lets her know of his new found sexuality is his business. That may be something that they can work out in some sort of arrangement but that is not my concern. Giving him what I consider a reasonable amount of time to tell her, I would ask him again if he has told her about the affair or ended it. They actually may work out a situation where she allows him to keep the affair going considering the circumstances (highly unlikely but I have to give that a chance). If he has not told her then I have to tell him that I would tell him about the affair as they are both my friends but that I would not tell her about his sexuality. If she asks me who he is having the affair with I will say I do not know.

[+ tassojunior]

Gay men have this illusion that women don't know. They usually do.

 

I don't know how many times I've heard of a husband "announcing" his gayness to a wife and her responding that she knew. After you're in a relationship for a while sex is just one of many things a couple has in common. And some straight spouses don't consider the partner being with another of the same sex "cheating". To them it doesn't meet the definition of "sex"; ie the Clinton defense.

[Nvr2Thick]

It is fine to say that we should not judge others - I try not to, but sometimes we have no choice but to consider the impact of their actions.

 

As an example, a few years ago I had an employee and became aware that he was cheating on his wife. The employee was in a position of trust. I had no choice but to take into account his actions and ask myself: he is lying to his wife (he admitted it and they did not have an ‘open’ marriage) and he has demonstrated that he cannot be trusted in a material respect, how can I not question his character and suitability for this role in the business? If he ended up abusing the trust and the business got sued, my judgment could be questioned for being aware of this ‘character flaw’ and not acting. To make it even harder, by this time I had known the employee for many years and considered him a friend - as in, we had lunch together most work days.

 

Ultimately I had to sit him down and explain that he would not have any future career prospects and I would advise him to seek employment elsewhere...

 

Not a fun experience.

 

To this day I believe I acted appropriately. You may disagree.

 

One of my prior bosses was a bully and habitual liar. When he was lying to me I could see the pleasure and confidence on his face. I'd swallow gallons of indignation and rage as I watched him lie to C-level management about situations that threw others under the bus. This guy was very popular with leadership largely because he was a handsome, well-built jock. He confided in me that when he was a kid his father used to pick on him and call him a fat momma's boy. That fueled his drive to be a local football star, and most likely influenced his behavior as an adult ball-buster and bully. He also confided that his father had a reputation for stepping out on his mom all the time. When my boss was little his dad would often come home very late from work or not at all, and there would always be smug, bullying arguments with his mom. It wasn't until my boss was a teenager that he came to understand that his dad kept a series of girlfriends, that everyone in town knew it, and that his dad perpetually lied to his mom about it.

 

I've done quite a bit of reading about infidelity since then, and I realize that my boss's values were distorted from the way he was raised. He sought his father's approval and viewed him as an absent role model. Lies were ingrained in his lifestyle as he was forming his own values. I'd always say that for this man the truth was just one of many tools in his tool box -- one that he'd bring out when it suited him. He always impressed upon me that he wanted a better relationship with his wife than his parents had had. Last I heard though, he and his wife spent three years going through the process of adopting two kids. Six months later his wife divorced him for infidelity.

 

I don't know whether I "judge" cheaters, but I don't trust people who are so comfortable distorting the truth when it can cause such harm. I don't know whether I can fairly assess whether someone has deliberately made bad choices, or whether he or she has had bad values ingrained since childhood that would require years of therapy to undo. It's best to steer clear regardless.

[+ SundayZip]

I understand that for gay men born before 1950-ish (or thereabouts), there was a tremendous pressure to get married and hide their sexuality. I've met a number of men like this who married, had children and either suppressed their true sexuality or had a secret sex life on the side. Had I been in their shoes, I might have done the same. And then there's the case of my ex-coworker (married in the mid-1980's). He knew he was bisexual going into his marriage but thought he could ignore his attraction to men. He later discovered that he was really a lot more attracted to men than women and ended up having a secret sex life on the side. Having never been in his shoes, I try not to judge.

[+ FreshFluff]

They contend that it’s actually less selfish of them to stay married and make sure that the wives remain blissfully in the dark, happy, and feeling loved - than divorced at 50. Their contention is that the guys would marry and live a pretty great life, despite some local scandal - but that the women will suffer financially as well as to have more difficulty (statistically) finding new partners.

 

Thre's some truth in this.

[Guy Fawkes]

I made the excellent decision to find other employment; The exit interview was remarkable and created wide spread havoc.

 

When I was a wee tot and took my first job with a large corporation I was strongly encouraged to be a good corporate citizen and give a predesignated percentage of my pay to The United Way.

 

I had a moral issue with one of the quasi-religious charities on the list and told my boss I didn’t want to contribute.

 

He took me aside and privately told me that was perfectly fine. However part of my performance appraisal was related to “decision making skills” and he would consider my action to be a poor decision and indicative of ability to make other decisions in the future. That would limit any career advancement I hoped to have.

 

I made the good decision and got the lapel pin.

[tenderloin]

When I was younger I was very naive about relationships, and imagined that there were only two types: good virtuous people who remained committed for life, and sleazy people who cheated and lied and couldn't be relied upon. Now I realize that there are myriad ways to make a relationship work (or fail), and no two are the same. And I am wise enough not to judge the way other people make things work. In each relationship, there are social, cultural, sexual, religious, and psychological dimensions that intersect in unknowable ways. Live and let live.

[Kenny]

Rationalization is a marvelous thing.

[bnm73]

I'm trying not to judge, the deception is problematic to me. This isn't a case where they agreed to an open marriage or pseudo-open marriage. The wife will find out at some point (it's all but inevitable sooner or later). "I'm lying to my wife to protect her" is a flimsy excuse at best...more likely it's "I don't want to have to split our assets and pay alimony." Then again, I'm a little cynical.

 

This, of course, assumes that the wife/wives don't already know. If it's been going on long-term, then there will have been little hints dropped from time to time (inadvertently). Whether this was picked up on or not...who knows.

[+ SundayZip]

Rationalization is a marvelous thing.

 

This is a good point. In concept, I think the lying and deception of cheating is hurtful an unhealthy. But when it comes to the complex realities of a real person's life, I try (sometimes unsuccessfully) to not judge.

[JayCeeKy]

Rationalization is a marvelous thing.

 

Rationalization is arguing with yourself...… and losing.