Racial sexual preference isn’t a crime

[+ Avalon]

On the Australian soap opera "Neighbours" there is a gay couple David who is Japanese and is a doctor and Aaron who is white, not sure what he does now but he was once an exotic dancer. They are engaged and will be getting married. It's supposed to be the first same-sex marriage on Australian television.

 

In the past the show has had an Aboriginal gay male character and an Indian (South Asian) gay male character. Both were involved with Aaron.

 

Also on the New Zealand soap opera "Shortland Street" there is a gay male biracial character white and Maori. He once had a boyfriend who was Samoan; that character died.

Edited July 6, 2018 by Avalon

[tenderloin]

The point of respect is out of question. 100% agree on @Drained Empty 's post.

 

But I do have a problem with "we cannot choose our preferences". It is true, we cannot but I think we need to explain the concept a little bit more because often it is used as an excuse to avoid taking a look at our own prejudices.

 

Our preferences are not totally under our control, but they change (at least mine have and I am not special) according to other variables in our personalities and ideas. For instance, I grew up when I was a young teen believing that I was only attracted to men, and the single possibility of a woman heading on me would make me run on panic. That was before I embraced my homosexuality. Once I freed my desire for men, I found out I do feel attraction for some women. Another example: when I was younger and the work on my homophobia and self hatred was just starting, I would feel attraction only for very twinkish, White, clean and cut, and feminine guys. Hell that has changed.

 

And the changing of my sexual preferences is still going on, and I expect to be open to new discoverings and to surprise myself. I am 100% top. I have experimented with bottoming in my 20s and never liked it. I do not even fantasize with bottoming, but I do think, considering that physiologically the rim and the prostate are full of erogenous centers, that there is no reason other than a psychological barrier for my handicapped pleasure. I cannot choose to become a bottom, but I can work on it and perhaps one day I will be ready to let my ass go.

 

So my point is that I agree, we cannot choose our sexual preferences, but we can choose to live up to an attitude of self reflexion and personal growing to expand our chances of happiness and pleasure. Our sexualities are not a given, but an always going on social/psychological construction.

 

Do tastes and preferences and kinks and our level of adventurousness (is that even a word?) evolve over time? For most of us, probably. But the point of the original post is that no one should be labeled racist (or other-ist) because they find that certain characteristics shared by people of a certain race, ethnicity, size, age, gender, etc. not to be sexually attractive. We can and should treat all people with respect and kindness, and should not discriminate against them in employment, housing, education, etc. but that doesn't mean we have to sleep with them and like it LOL.

 

To give an obvious example, I happen to be of Scandinavian heritage. I have never ever been attracted to guys from Scandinavia. I don't understand why, and I certainly don't discriminate against them in my daily life, but I just don't want to fuck them. And you know what? That's ok. Fin.

[Rudynate]

The same for whites,

This one no sex, but will have a lovely conversation-friend zone

 

Now this one, come ride me cowboy!

 

 

Doesn't that go without saying. If one says, "I go for black guys," clearly you don't go for every black guy on the planet. But the whole question of race forces us into these predicaments where we feel we have to go to ridiculous lengths to clarify what we meant.

 

A black guy who I dated was terrified of being objectified because he was black, even though he himself dated only white guys. So if he got any indication that a guy he was dating was into him because of his skin color, he would drop them flat, no explanation, just walk away. I think it was a ridiculous position, because how can you separate someone from their skin color? Even if you're not someone with a fetishistic attraction to a particular skin color, how really can you separate a man's skin color from who he is. It's part of who he is.

[+ quoththeraven]

I'm going to cautiously enter this thread because I've been race-hated on this board.

 

Racism is undoubtedly present in the gay community. From the blatant "no Asians" to bars or spas clearing out when I enter, I've experienced it my entire adult life. Attraction may by governed physiologically (just how gay men aren't sexually attracted to women) or influenced by society and media (Asian men are regularly emasculated on screen). It may be a bit of both. But from my experience, Asians are treated worse in the gay community than any other race (except perhaps South Asians).

 

The issue comes with how guys express their attraction (or lack of). I'm not sexually attracted to older men, but frequently get attention from them (another topic for another day). If they reach out to me, I reply, "thank you, but it's not a 100% match. Good luck." I don't say "you're too old." I don't block them. Some guys get hostile but most of the time they say "thanks" or "no problem." Respect earns respect.

 

The problem is many white guys (who are considered by most as the most desirable) lack that respect. I stopped complimenting white guys on Grindr because I'd get auto blocked. For saying things like "you have a great smile." Yes, I know there are my Asian brothers that shamelessly hurl themselves at any white guy, but when the level of lack of respect for another race results in an automatic block or a hand to the face (yes, one guy once put his hand in my face after I said he was good-looking), that comes from thinking you're better than they are. And that is definitely racism.

 

The saddest part is so many Asians have internalized it. I'm in SF for the month and can't tell you how many Asian guys exclude their race from their profiles. Why? Because they know a lot of guys check the boxes for other races than Asian. They want to be the exception. Sometimes they are (the tall, muscular Asians with square jaws -- ironically, the desirable Asians look more "white"). Sometimes they're not. This is true of Asian guys with ripped bodies and use shirtless pics. A white guy will find the body hot but when they learn it belongs to an Asian they change their minds. What changed? Maybe the face. Or maybe the race.

 

This recent video puts it best. An asian model (who is straight, but it affects all Asians) says, "I didn't want to be white. I just want to be treated like I was white." What he's really saying is that he wants to be treated with respect.

 

 

So whether it's "preference" or you're racist (because let's face it, some of you are), try treating everyone with respect. Because we're all part of the human race.

@Drained Empty, I really appreciate your post, but South Asians are Asian too. Did you mean East Asians?

 

It doesn't help when we East Asians (I'm assuming that's what you are) internalize the US propensity for considering East Asia to stand in for all of Asia.

 

This is also where I note that the continent as a geographic concept is Eurasia, not Asia. That wasn't an Asian choice, though, and it was driven by European belief in their superiority.

[+ quoththeraven]

I do not have any racial preference myself but I’ve experienced being in a position where I wasn’t the guy’s type. He’s not into Asians and that’s cool.

 

I do prefer being with guys who are not overly hung. The average the better so to speak. I’d like to be able to work with it, to be able to handle it. Huge cocks are nice to look at though.

Thumbs up for the second paragraph.

[Youngmilkman]

@Drained Empty, I really appreciate your post, but South Asians are Asian too. Did you mean East Asians?

 

It doesn't help when we East Asians (I'm assuming that's what you are) internalize the US propensity for considering East Asia to stand in for all of Asia.

 

This is also where I note that the continent as a geographic concept is Eurasia, not Asia. That wasn't an Asian choice, though, and it was driven by European belief in their superiority.

To be fair, 'Asian' is just an abstract term depending on which part of Asia your country colonised / fought a war against. For example here in England we use 'Asian' exclusively for South Asians. We would specify 'East Asian' or otherwise 'Oriental'.

 

Speaking of which, South Asians are often unfairly stereotyped as "poorly endowed" but the Pakistani bulls I've met can prove otherwise!

[pubic_assistance]

I've often noticed Indian men checking the "Asian" category on profiles, not understanding the American view of Nationality follows more of a racial profile than a geographic one ( esp. since most American's don't even own a passport and have little knowledge of geography). In my experience, "Asian" to an American very specifically means, Chinese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese or Japanese with of South East Asia being the blur into "other". Indian men will often be greeted with "I thought you said you were Asian", commentary, if checking the "Asian" box under Race or Nationality.

[+ quoththeraven]

I've often noticed Indian men checking the "Asian" category on profiles, not understanding the American view of Nationality follows more of a racial profile than a geographic one ( esp. since most American's don't even own a passport and have little knowledge of geography). In my experience, "Asian" to an American very specifically means, Chinese, Korean, Thai, Vietnamese or Japanese with of South East Asia being the blur into "other". Indian men will often be greeted with "I thought you said you were Asian", commentary, if checking the "Asian" box under Race or Nationality.

What other box is there for them to check? The people who are wrong here are the American ignoramuses who think Asian means East Asian. It's a big continent, especially considering there's no geographic reason for carving Europe out other than a desire to claim superiority.

 

And Thailand is in Southeast Asia and isn't contiguous with the others. Vietnam also is in Southeast Asia, not East Asia. Go check a map.

[mike carey]

And Thailand is in Southeast Asia and isn't contiguous with the others. Vietnam also is in Southeast Asia, not East Asia. Go check a map.

I think that's a bit harsh, and I don't think that being contiguous is all that relevant. (Probably) Khmer and (certainly) Lao people would be included in any case, and that would solve the contiguous issue. I suspect that most non-Asian Americans have a mental image of what an Asian looks like and the typical east or south-east Asian fits that image. Despite some imprecision in his language, I think that is what pubic_assistance was saying, The discussion here has been predicated on ticking a box for one racial category, and that is not how racial characterisation works most of the time.

 

In this country we would most likely have the same image of an Asian if we were asked to describe what that meant on a list, but it would not come as a surprise if a South Asian identified as Asian. If talking about race from first principles, people here would use 'Asian' to cover a variety of ethnicities generically without consciously including or excluding any south, south-east or east Asian group (but would not include anyone from further west than Pakistan or from Central Asia). If the discussion became more focussed, we would be likely to differentiate between the ethnic groups of the larger immigrant communities here, and that would include at least Chinese, Vietnamese and Indian. The degree to which smaller, or less prominent ethnic groups are identified would depend on the context and who was discussing them.

 

I agree that the concept of Europe vs Asia is artificial but I'm not sure whether 'superiority' was the reason for the divide or a development from it. The divisions between Sinitic Asia and Indian Asia are at least as significant as those between them and what we call European, and there are significant border lands between them.

 

This article is not entirely unrelated to the subject: https://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewgabriele/2018/07/05/the-middle-ages-actually-isnt-just-about-the-peoples-of-europe/#4b5aa947304a I found the reference to medieval European knowledge of the kingdom of Mali interesting (and as I've commented here before the use of the Mediterranean as the division between 'Europe' and 'Africa' is no more persuasive than it would be to use the Sahara).

[Rudynate]

What other box is there for them to check? The people who are wrong here are the American ignoramuses who think Asian means East Asian. It's a big continent, especially considering there's no geographic reason for carving Europe out other than a desire to claim superiority.

 

And Thailand is in Southeast Asia and isn't contiguous with the others. Vietnam also is in Southeast Asia, not East Asia. Go check a map.

 

The only applicable box, besides 'Asian' is 'Other.' In text ads, sometimes Indian men self-identify as 'Desi.' I like East Asians and I like Desis. So if I was expecting an East Asian and a Desi showed up, it would be fine with me.

 

What about Pakistanis? South Asians, I guess. Pakistanis, when they speak English, have similar accents to Indians. And then there are Bangladeshis. South Asian again, I guess.

[+ quoththeraven]

The only applicable box, besides 'Asian' is 'Other.' In text ads, sometimes Indian men self-identify as 'Desi.' I like East Asians and I like Desis. So if I was expecting an East Asian and a Desi showed up, it would be fine with me.

 

What about Pakistanis? South Asians, I guess. Pakistanis, when they speak English, have similar accents to Indians. And then there are Bangladeshis. South Asian again, I guess.

Yes, they're all South Asian.

[+ quoththeraven]

I think that's a bit harsh, and I don't think that being contiguous is all that relevant. (Probably) Khmer and (certainly) Lao people would be included in any case, and that would solve the contiguous issue. I suspect that most non-Asian Americans have a mental image of what an Asian looks like and the typical east or south-east Asian fits that image. Despite some imprecision in his language, I think that is what pubic_assistance was saying, The discussion here has been predicated on ticking a box for one racial category, and that is not how racial characterisation works most of the time.

 

In this country we would most likely have the same image of an Asian if we were asked to describe what that meant on a list, but it would not come as a surprise if a South Asian identified as Asian. If talking about race from first principles, people here would use 'Asian' to cover a variety of ethnicities generically without consciously including or excluding any south, south-east or east Asian group (but would not include anyone from further west than Pakistan or from Central Asia). If the discussion became more focussed, we would be likely to differentiate between the ethnic groups of the larger immigrant communities here, and that would include at least Chinese, Vietnamese and Indian. The degree to which smaller, or less prominent ethnic groups are identified would depend on the context and who was discussing them.

 

I agree that the concept of Europe vs Asia is artificial but I'm not sure whether 'superiority' was the reason for the divide or a development from it. The divisions between Sinitic Asia and Indian Asia are at least as significant as those between them and what we call European, and there are significant border lands between them.

 

This article is not entirely unrelated to the subject: https://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewgabriele/2018/07/05/the-middle-ages-actually-isnt-just-about-the-peoples-of-europe/#4b5aa947304a I found the reference to medieval European knowledge of the kingdom of Mali interesting (and as I've commented here before the use of the Mediterranean as the division between 'Europe' and 'Africa' is no more persuasive than it would be to use the Sahara).

I don't think it's too harsh considering @pubic_assistance acknowledged that the concept of continents belongs to the realm of geography. Thais are also noticeably different looking from Chinese, Japanese, Koreans and Vietnamese. And Vietnam and Thailand are on a peninsula distinct from East Asia (China, Korea and Japan).

[pubic_assistance]

What other box is there for them to check? The people who are wrong here are the American ignoramuses who think Asian means East Asian. It's a big continent, especially considering there's no geographic reason for carving Europe out other than a desire to claim superiority.

 

And Thailand is in Southeast Asia and isn't contiguous with the others. Vietnam also is in Southeast Asia, not East Asia. Go check a map.

Just an observation Raven....don't get your panties in a knot again. I didn't make up the problem...just sharing, my experience. Yes..I think anyone from India, Pakistan etc needs to check "other" when dealing with Americans. To whom, "Asian" means a more specific ethnic look than the reality of the Continent.

[+ quoththeraven]

Just an observation Raven....don't get your panties in a knot again. I didn't make up the problem...just sharing, my experience. Yes..I think anyone from India, Pakistan etc needs to check "other" when dealing with Americans. To whom, "Asian" means a more specific ethnic look than the reality of the Continent.

I dislike internal inconsistencies in posts and you pissed me off early in your tenure here with your defense of your smarts with your reference to your classical education, so I'm motivated to be pissed off every time your posts are inconsistent and sloppy and to point out the inconsistencies.

 

If you had not been so full of yourself, especially as a newbie, I wouldn't be as critical of this particular post.

[pubic_assistance]

I dislike internal inconsistencies in posts and you pissed me off early in your tenure here with your defense of your smarts with your reference to your classical education, so I'm motivated to be pissed off every time your posts are inconsistent and sloppy and to point out the inconsistencies.

 

If you had not been so full of yourself, especially as a newbie, I wouldn't be as critical of this particular post.

So...you're wired to respond through the spectrum of your sad bitterness...I get it. You didn't need to explain that. It's pretty obvious.

[+ quoththeraven]

So...you're wired to respond through the spectrum of your sad bitterness...I get it. You didn't need to explain that. It's pretty obvious.

And you wonder why you get those kind of responses when you don't even recognize you are the bitter one, not me, based on the content of your posts.

 

People who are full of themselves are unlikable. You just proved you still are. So saltiness will continue!

[+ GregM]

How about you (no specific person) like what you like. We all have preferences. The mutha fucking end. Not everyone is going to agree with who you (speaking in general) on who you find sexy and vice versa. You (speaking in general) do you and mind your own g-d damn business! Now pardon me, I got dick to suck. NEXT!

 

Hugs,

Greg

[pubic_assistance]

And you wonder why you get those kind of responses when you don't even recognize you are the bitter one, not me, based on the content of your posts.

 

People who are full of themselves are unlikable. You just proved you still are. So saltiness will continue!

You're a real piece of work. People have differences of opinions. It's a fact of life. Maybe get some friends and find out for yourself.

[Chidude]

I'm going to cautiously enter this thread because I've been race-hated on this board.

 

Racism is undoubtedly present in the gay community. From the blatant "no Asians" to bars or spas clearing out when I enter, I've experienced it my entire adult life. Attraction may by governed physiologically (just how gay men aren't sexually attracted to women) or influenced by society and media (Asian men are regularly emasculated on screen). It may be a bit of both. But from my experience, Asians are treated worse in the gay community than any other race (except perhaps South Asians).

 

The issue comes with how guys express their attraction (or lack of). I'm not sexually attracted to older men, but frequently get attention from them (another topic for another day). If they reach out to me, I reply, "thank you, but it's not a 100% match. Good luck." I don't say "you're too old." I don't block them. Some guys get hostile but most of the time they say "thanks" or "no problem." Respect earns respect.

 

The problem is many white guys (who are considered by most as the most desirable) lack that respect. I stopped complimenting white guys on Grindr because I'd get auto blocked. For saying things like "you have a great smile." Yes, I know there are my Asian brothers that shamelessly hurl themselves at any white guy, but when the level of lack of respect for another race results in an automatic block or a hand to the face (yes, one guy once put his hand in my face after I said he was good-looking), that comes from thinking you're better than they are. And that is definitely racism.

 

The saddest part is so many Asians have internalized it. I'm in SF for the month and can't tell you how many Asian guys exclude their race from their profiles. Why? Because they know a lot of guys check the boxes for other races than Asian. They want to be the exception. Sometimes they are (the tall, muscular Asians with square jaws -- ironically, the desirable Asians look more "white"). Sometimes they're not. This is true of Asian guys with ripped bodies and use shirtless pics. A white guy will find the body hot but when they learn it belongs to an Asian they change their minds. What changed? Maybe the face. Or maybe the race.

 

This recent video puts it best. An asian model (who is straight, but it affects all Asians) says, "I didn't want to be white. I just want to be treated like I was white." What he's really saying is that he wants to be treated with respect.

 

 

So whether it's "preference" or you're racist (because let's face it, some of you are), try treating everyone with respect. Because we're all part of the human race.

 

Beautiful post, @Drained Empty. Thank you.

[seattlebottom]

My "racial preference" is for people who look different from me....so in other words, I rarely go with blond hair/blue eyes.

I prefer brown eyes, black hair on either men or women.

Does that make me racist ? Probably not.

 

Hair color and eye color are not specific to one race.

[alkan]

Hair color and eye color are not specific to one race.

Agreed. And let's state it once more. Racism is the belief that one race is superior or inferior to others, not a sexual preference for one aspect. The "difficulty" arises with the way that is expressed, e.g.if it is used as a way of putting a race down, or is perceived that way.

[pubic_assistance]

Hair color and eye color are not specific to one race.

duh.

...and your point is ?

You're only a racist if you're racist toward one race ? ( Which is pretty much how I would need to interpret your comment ).

[alkan]

duh.

...and your point is ?

You're only a racist if you're racist toward one race ? ( Which is pretty much how I would need to interpret your comment ).

Perhaps I am wrong but that's not how I read it. I thought he was saying (and please correct me if I am mistaken) that what you described couldn't be thought of as racist because the features you said you have a preference for are not race-specific. But even if they were, as I said, that would not constitute racism. In fact, I could quite believe in a racist wanting only to have sex with the race that he or she regarded as inferior, and even that would only of itself be racism if the sexual desire was predicated on the perceived inferiority, rather than e.g. a physical feature possessed by that race.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Is it still racism if you hate everyone equally?

[LoveNDino]

Is it still racism if you hate everyone equally?

I believe that is misanthrophy...far superior than racism.