SirBillybob

Perhaps over-eagerness to cleverly use the shrug emoticon lead to a semantic lapse. But the general tone is offputting ... better to convey if it works great we both have agency and fit each other, not if it does not dovetail there is some deficiency out of my control

Nuuk, Greenland. LOL, too obscure to be fun.

Feb 1996 Remingtons

Yes, it is confusing, isn’t it? Ordinarily open (or non-) curtain suggests less contact and $10 ... I believe Stock has a sign delineating the distinction. I have always assumed all songs are $20 at Campus and not bothered to request a lesser rate, because I want “$20 action”. Perhaps the absence of a curtain supports the notion that all songs are the higher rate, therefore more lucrative for dancers. Perhaps Stock is taking more of risk, or open versus closed there cues a clearer boundary between 2 versions of contact. It may simply be club preference, or a little of “something for everyone” on the strip. I believe the official boiler-plate explanation is that the open concept is less incriminating and closer to the table-dance concept. Protection of all parties. Also, a foreign presence such as morality squad can be noticed more easily and warn that adjustments in cubicle choreography are required. Where some charges have been laid in Canada, the law enforcers have yanked open the curtain so the element of surprise prevents behaviour alteration. I note, though, that open concept at Campus is partially visible but at a distance, so it may encourage curiosity and retail.

Oh, yes yes yes, I agree with your bottom line point. The activity trumps the distinction between a paid employee and, say, being a dancer contractor in the same way the street florists pops in to hawk stem roses. LOL, not the greatest comparative example considering rose innuendo on Grindr, etc. I had to laugh when some board members said candidly to border patrol they planned on hitting the strip clubs here. I’d have substituted ‘leather bar’ and kept a stud bicep bracelet in my bag. (Not: Oh, I plan on breaking your criminal code having a stud simulate anal intercourse grinding down on my crotch)

PS: lucky me in that I lived in TO and infrequently attended Rem’n’s MofS but was fortunate at the time not to be caught up in the raid.

I won’t quote your passage, Jr-Mtl, but I appreciate the additions. I am not a lawyer or expert, but I agree with much of how you see it, some of it may be either one of us splitting hairs on wording and meanings, and we are both missing key parts of the history and the nuances pre- and post- Nordic model application 2014. You made some typing errors I think and some passages do not make sense to me. I avoided the distinction between indecency standards and indictability for simplicity sake. I was trying to focus mainly on vice/morals law and deliberately skirted labour and licensing, but you are correct in that they are relevant. My biggest mistake was attempting to illuminate the reasons for others’ observations about the scene and how their contentment has shifted. Prostitution law here was and is quirky and probably poorly understand by our American cousins. It came down much to communicating for purposes of prostitution (in my books that is enough to have defined it as illegal prior to 2014), and now is protect-provider -- indict John — neo-abolitionism. I don’t know much about the bawdy-house found-in ... seems specific to the setting without concrete evidence of negotiating a trick, the key illegality up to 2014. Technically, now, exchanging champagne service privilege for your dancer, “for consideration” even without cash, qualifies as prostitution if a private lap dance occurs. But what law enforcement system would care? They are interested in exchanging candy for favours from minors, or drugs in exchange for blowies from female addicts. Anyway, how can legal resources keep up when the bar is set so low for what constitutes vice? The Nordic model cares little about MSM trade. It is basically anti-male and as long as The Village clubs are trafficking testosterone, rec drugs, etc, but not females, perhaps things will carry on non-dramatically.

Go to yoga class to limber up and develop the fine art of exchanging saliva while topping doggie-style, contorting your neck and twisting your head up and under his upper pucker while pounding away that lower hungry pucker. Better yet, invite him to hot yoga so you can later meet in the middle, your front middle conjoined to his rear middle. I think he should eliminate the attention span-taxing info about Montreal. Too on the nose. He is either available or not. If not, simply inflates the likelihood of obsessive interest in the one that got away. He has a more conventional, but unremarkable for its being so pedestrian, career based in Canada. With family and social life, accessibility limit is understandable. No need to be an apologist. Mystique trumps social calendar detail.

More to the point to the OP ... You may have hired because many of the 33,000 Calgarian fellows, your queer peers, have not stampeded to your door. Or, more importantly, you cannot simply turn on your horn works for most of them. If you think escorts in general attend and matriculate from the University of MorphingFakeInterestIntoTrueLust, you should enrol yourself and acquire the reach that exceeds your grasp, getting worked up into a lather at every gay lad from Bow River to the Rodeo grounds. You could save a lot of cash but book more routine STI clinic checkups. LOL. Just have fun and try not to take it too seriously.

I only hire straight but good performative providers because they SHOULD NOT be into me. Gay providers WOULD NOT be into me. Well, maybe 30 years ago. I just simply prefer one version of method acting and not second/guessing. I realize this reflects my neuroses. Buy it’s my cash, my prerogative. Straight providers have been the best tops for me. They have cultivated skills in a more refined way and have to perform to be viable. I realized after a time that I could not access in memory a gay provider who really boned me into next week. They have been less able to manage physiological arousal out of synch with lack of subjective arousal. I have become too rigid to test the theory with an expanded sample size. If it’s the strip club setting, the distinction is less relevant. There my focus is more exclusively MY arousal, etc without conventional activity, and the straight dancers have experience acquiring tumescence for sub-sexual interaction. Bottom line: You cannot buy love, or 60 minutes of authentic lust. If they are truly turned on it may be their erotomania off their bipolar- stabilizing prescription psychoactive meds.

The provider who got ruffled’n’rude when deposit request denied is not bright. He eliminated the option of filling a vacant spot with a good client more on an impromptu basis when in town, ie, “hey, I am happy with my booking time here and have not been screwed over; maybe we can work out an appointment if it appears you are the real deal and flexible enough to attend at such and such time without a deposit”. Or the client might change his mind and risk the deposit. Otherwise the guy is just telegraphing he is inherently deserving of privileges, has no grasp of the client putting himself out on the limb (not a dental booking), and letting his psychological issues bleed into the business. There is simply nothing intelligently purposeful about his behaviour. But more importantly, shooting himself in the foot by reinforcing the correlation between pouty entitlement and the direction in which clients lean in jeopardy assessments regarding fronting cash. We are human. One bold Mileroticos guy asking for a pay advance has tainted my trust in all their ads. Maybe not such a bad thing, as in a foreign place one should let the big head be bigger than usual.

——- I think that there are a lot of factors at play, not the least of which is perspective. I live here, have gone to Campus for nigh on 20 years, and have never experienced enough afternoon selection or quality to take a private during the early evening shift. I think, though, the inventory has dwindled overall both shifts. Like I said, song/dong rates doubled during great econ times just prior to the Sept 2008 market plummet, a little less exaggerated than the new film Hustlers, but the change was palpable. I do not find assertions of more recent very marked decline particularly relatable. I have for decades witnessed the contrast between off days and big crowds, without any clear explanation. I do note that there is a manifold increase in appealing RM ads the last few years, when in the past just a handful. The cost of an escort hire can fall short of the rapidly escalating song tally in a club private. That may be a factor. Dancers can be spirited away ... I did so myself with a guy for 4 years. Also, I think that a higher proportion of gym guys are actual competitors and they find the hours do not fit well with their rigorous training routines. —- Le Bourbon Condos will be completed next year and should bring in at least 200 residents. That may lift the energy a little. However, its commercial space may not do well. People just really like to shop on StC West, in my area, where the big brand names are. It is getting too big for its britches. There are several immense residential towers going up. A total of 200 stories just steps from my place and hundreds more within 5-10 minutes walking. The immense underground retail will thrive and draw more shoppers away from The Village. The Village offers niche shopping, nice for visitors but not so convenient for city dwellers.

The clubs were very busy last night (Fri). I don’t know what was going on on the strip under the rainbow canopy. It was packed with people even though rather cool. No apparent defined festival. Maybe it was a composite of college/unit students early in the term taking in the last of the pedestrian zone and the permanent end of the installation.

Anyway, what this discussion on drugs and manage style has nothing to do with is this ... Physique competitor Chris was back last night after a year off. He is 6’3 mixed race, hot AF, and made me very happy . He trains wisely, has packed on muscle mass slowly patiently and steadily age 19-22. Great fun in private.

That is why I implied where there is smoke there is fire, that is, there is a relationship among fringe marginalized stigmatized activities. One would likely access leads to rec drugs at a strip club not a church social. AA philosophy must have been in the house last night ... all managing players sober at Campus.

How is simply describing how the Criminal Code parameters re: prostitution impact on the latitude of strip clubs to operate as legit business a rant? I don’t condone the drug trade but it is not unique for Campus and is fairly widespread. I drink minimally and do not do drugs, so my judgement is not impaired viz who is impaired, and witnessing it bugs me ... in 20 years I have only seen one stakeholder inebriated. Not Gary or employees. Besides, how would you imagine owner sobriety would change things? What are they missing doing when drinking, assuming they are. It operates fine as a bar, as bars in the area go. I thought posters were complaining about the erotic entertainment and could use some local insight as to how the law hamstrings venues to a degree. I fail to see the causality of drug biz and bar decline; after all, the drug trade existed even during the stripclubs’ heyday. Anyway, why criticize a club for condoning one illegal thing for some attendees yet failing to optimize the infrastructure for another illegal thing? It is simply incoherent, unless your argument is the relative degree to which either activity is inocuous. I am not personally friends with any owners and my input is based on an attempt to analyze and knit together an array of factors that influence visitors getting what they hope for. A balance of critical appraisal, economic trends, realism, and empathic attunement to the law and its restrictions helps me to generally extract a positive experience here and ride the ups and downs. I can see that visitors encountering a 10/10 but following that a low-score experience would be unhappy and posit a few logical but not entirely substantiated theories concerning the differentials. I don’t think my city is the cat’s pyjamas but you can come here and have certain paid sexual experiences in semi-public with relative impunity. If you cannot work it out, it’s on you. If you want more and hotter strippers, tip them generously closer to webcam rates, and while you are at it you may as well take it private. You can pay them, the clubs cannot even if they are willing. Few clubs wish or are able to expand their mandate to profitable streaming, solo porn, and piggybacked camming in the postmodern age. Stock got in early and copycat attempts are likely to flop.

Addendum: the hottest guys build up a cadre of private clientele, essentially cherry-picking appealing and affluent clients more into body worship. Why do a club shift if you can earn as much privately over dinner and vanilla intimacy over a brief period and be in bed by midnight? Then if and when that dries up be relatively new club talent once again, cycle, repeat.

The clubs can hire and pay strippers a wage for stage entertainment, in the same way they employ servers, DJs, etc, but it is a criminal offense for the club to have those same strippers provide private lap dances. The club can only profit from bev service if all employees refrain from activities that legally impugn the club and consumers.... it is illegal to purchase lap dances, but legal for independent contractor lapdancers to sell them, as long as the club does not profit. Ironically, the club would likely not profit any more financially if strippers could get wages, as increased bev profits might not surpass wage payouts. This all translates to clubs providing a setting for illegal activity at consumers' peril, and dancers earnings predicated exclusively on consumers paying for sexual favours while accommodating non-earning socializing in exchange for the privilege to work out of there, not for them. It is not Magic Mike Revue. I would not grouse about rec drug trade. Where there is smoking hot smoke there is fire. You cannot impose a "normative" business model on this complex arrangement. It is a setup for transient "employment'. Again, it is the consumer constituency that drives the quality of performers, and its level of concomitant alcoholism that dictates profit margins. This is the algorithm: hot guys sell their services, if it is financially worthwhile (or, for some, expedient), to horny patrons who are willing to pay to incriminate themselves legally, over and above lurking and flirting at no cost while spending enough on drinks to meet venue costs and profit margins, while the hot guys must commit to low-earning shifts on slow periods and evaluate whether the overall average hourly take and soul-crushing sacrifice is worth the effort. For some, the point of diminished return is reached earlier than for others.

I just assume as a matter of course that the info I provide will get back to the provider, and that any ID info will be shared beyond the DM interaction. Therefore, that is the compass I go by when responding. I do not give much credence to the optics or profile/Hx of the inquirer. This is more “everyone is human” than “distrust everyone”. Marriage vows tend to be uniformly broken. Promises are just dumb. If I give a tasty morsel against all better judgement, I had better be getting something of equal value tossed my way, but there is little that I can think of that I want beyond my own reconnaissance.

They are menn at Villa Gianni.

Short answer: Because it can. Interesting how Montreal has about 4 of the 5-6 gay strip clubs in Canada, with now 1 in Toronto and maybe sorta kinda 1 in Windsor. And Manhattan can barely sustain the same when even based on select nights of the week. Note that this apparent prediminance in all strip clubs is seeing a steady decline all across the country with gentrification and social media outlets. Well, Montreal is a North American city that continues to have a centralized non-scattered gay ghetto, "one-stop shopping", whereas there may be more dispersal elsewhere. Contact lap dances legal in Canada since 2000, but 'what goes' may be regulated differently and provinces and municipalities can put the screws to clubs and define indecency in a variable way, or set zoning laws that make it difficult to operate. The rules may be more flexible in Montreal regarding contact and nudity. But the larger community can basically decide how to apply the law. Gay Village real estate pricepoints per square footage may be more affordable. There are no children's schools within a certain distance. The clubs are crammed into retail areas and blend in, with no major evidence of impeding the moral comforts of single-family dwelling occupants. They don't pop out in an isolated lot or strip mall. Zoning is not very restrictive in terms of the mandatory distance between commercial establishments of the same theme. Organized crime historically backed the industry more in some locations, but this is likely more pertinent to gentleman's clubs (female dancers). Montreal became known as a city with greater decadence when during 1920s US prohibition it drew the eastern seaboard clientele up across the border and a large inventory of "cabarets" with booze and burlesque etc proliferated. So today's trends may be a residual of this urban character and notoriety. Did you know that Canada legalized same-sex activity in 1969, only the US state of Illinois had done so by that time and it took 32 years (1971-2003) for all states to get up to speed? Many states coming late to the party continue to have statutes banning anal intercourse. No one clear direct explanation about Montreal's situation. There is also the women's club 281with male strippers. There are lineups on busy nights ... that may be the right idea, one central place, though of course Campus and Stock have their once weekly ladies nights too.

The only solution is a complete boycott and closure of one or two rivals, a revised paradigm, and this hinges on client org. Far be it for me to spearhead. I could care less and I am able to make the best of what exists currently. Why should Montreal, of hundreds of North American cities, be targeted as the one to fulfill lap dance fantasies? Things change over decades. You are best advised to always push for fave dancers’ contact info so when you return you have a backup plan.

The dividing factor is dancer privacy. What spurs media dev’t with Stock is the online streaming and related services. The dancers there need to be comfortable with exposure. They have local families and this is a temp gig. The club even has an area geo-nogo zone for the site. And the FB/Instagram media is focused on the more “respectable” ladies crowd, less stigmatized because it is again like a strip-o-gram concept for bachelorettes. The central theme of social media is the entertainment. There needs to be a place for strippers to be relatively on the down low if they require. Even then, a hen party may be very awkward if they attend the same gym, school etc. Or a cousin informs Mama Bear ‘guess who shoved his dick in my face’. Many are physique competitors who need a certain image for sponsorships. Therefore, Campus. Dancers are ersatz escorts with minimal anonymity. Why should they bother if the promise of great bank is not fulfilled? I thank God in heaven Campus does not push media banner ads with pics of fake guys.

I don't disagree that it is poor, but I do not see much change over the past 10+ years, just little ups and downs. I rarely take a private there. However, there still are non-holiday weekends where all the available seating is taken. Customers purchasing dances drive the business. This is not a classic management issue. A few days ago there were a few attractive fit dancers making no money. That is not a management deficit. The dancers make nothing if the club is full of drinkers/watchers. The customers are essentially the management team. I am equally to blame, but I do not waste their time. I think that my perspective is different because the true differential was about 12 years ago when dances jumped from $10 to $20. That created a huge dip in all clubs and recent dips pale in comparison. From 2001-mid2000s the clubs were jammed on weekends. Many guys were cleaning up and also rotating thru The Gaiety some weekends. I don't know where the concept "reject" originates. The migration is bidirectional, guys trying a change to inflate their income. I would say my top favourites have been distributed fairly equally between Campus and Stock. I starting coming to Montreal, years before moving here, in 1980, when Apollon in the west-central end of town was the peeler bar. They had a lot of flak from the straight bar patrons in the district but I went too infrequently to witness it.

LOL ...I am a local yokel down the road. I never go prior to the second shift of dancers (21:00-03:00). You cannot expect hot guys to spend valuable gym and rest time not earning any cash 15:00-21:00 ... that has not in my 2 decades of going been a good time frame. Campus is a Fri/Sat evening place. I have not seen the moneybags loiwterer around for a few years. ? And with 4 establishments blocks apart again, gaining critical mass is a challenge. I think the problem is that they all usually squeak by with an acceptable profit margin, but four is hardly sustainable for a city this size.