bongripper

If they tanked, I might burst from schadenfreude.

I don’t think that’s what happened. It is probably a glitch. Another explanation is they did expunge all of our copy (I’m an advertiser) some bodyworkers on the site have yet to add their copy back.

Being the investigator that I am... I contacted the owners accountant, found the owners name. Emailed them and contacted them on Facebook.
 
They deleted their Facebook's and finally responded with " Refunded your money" . I am more disappointed then mad. I invested 8 years of advertising dollars and to be treated like this is pathetic.
 
I have reached out to a few more massage therapist that advertise and random massage therapist have contacted me asking what is going on. Some of these guys don't even know that the site is gone.

Yup it is really deplorable politicians “on both sides” cutting the fabric for scarlet letters.

MassageM4M handled it's demise so badly. Just pulled itself offline, with no communication to it's advertisers or clients who supported them all these years, to alert them they were going offline. The CORRECT way to have done it would have been to post the following on their Landing Page:
 
To All Advertisers And Massage Clients
 
MassageM4M has reached the decision that we can no longer operate our massage website for personal reasons. To all our advertisers, please contact us at support@massagem4m.com for a full refund for any credit card charges which have been billed for the coming month. To all our advertisers and massage clients, it has been a pleasure to serve you the past 17 years since our beginnings in 2001. Thank you all for your support over those years and we wish you all the best. Our site will be going offline on June 21, 2018. Thank you once again for your patronage!
 
THAT would have been a class act on how to exit gracefully. Instead they slipped away in the dark of the night, just left in a very deceitful way, with only an "Error" page when you visit the site now. They could have least posted something along the lines of the copy above out of respect for all of us who supported them all these years. REALLY badly done.

Or Michael Cohen.

In over 20 years geared more to providing the massage end of the spectrum I have a couple of thoughts. There is the “conquest end” I am thinking of one client in particular who I worked with him
and his husband for about 8 years. He certainly had the money to pay for escort services (they hired an array of them weekly to supplement their sex life.). And they had decided that they wanted to hire me for weekly massage. The problem for me was he (not his husband) pushed for more every session. So I finally bluntly asked what was going on? I got a tearful response about conquest and a promise to respect boundaries that remained kept until the end of our journey together.
My second thought is the bargain escort theory. Rightfully massage services generally are cheaper than escort services. More energy exchanged=more money charged seems like a fair equation. So a certain percentage of customers who use massage sites are trying to see if they can “trip” the equation and get more energy for less money. Like you I think why not just be a grown up and be clear with what you want? And in the tenuous times that the industry is going through why open up these sites to trouble? But in the recent governmental changes this dynamic has been set into hyperdrive in my experience.

Gotta say the greatest massages that I have ever received (and I have had hundreds) were from the late Glenn Wilson of Tucson, Arizona. He had very limited Esalen training and some Lomi Lomi. Some guys just have the touch. When Arizona went to licensing about 15 years ago he did not bite and chose to remain unlicensed. So if you asked Glenn for his license he would have come up short on that test. There are many trained masseurs (I have 1,200 hours) who choose not to license because then they have something to take away from you and also it is best to leave licensing to those who are playing that game. Also sometimes strictly therapeutic masseurs, as I am sure some of you have experienced, will exclude whole portions of your body (glutes come to mind) or spend 80 percent of the time working on your back. It is trial and error. Also many great M4M masseurs do have reviews on yelp so do your research (google by phone number.) Like many thing in life it is trial and error.
 

Admin Note: No politics in this Forum.

I've noticed a few higher end escorts using rent messure to advertise and get clients - even though we all know they know nothing about being a messure. But, it still allows for them to use Twitter (no longer an option on RentMen) to market themselves. IDK what's next, but gay men have a long history of find ways around ill planned rules and regulations imposed on us. Someone will figure out a solution.

I think you meant K-MART which is also RIP

I think you meant K-MART which is also RIP

Definitely have noticed an uptick in odd and outright illegal requests on MF and M4M post the legal changes. My policy, informed by decades of experience, is to not respond to text shortcuts or inquiries that would put me in jeopardy. The photos are there and recent, the reviews are there, my real name is there I am not going to give a play by play to someone whom I have never met and who, for all I know, is on a burner phone. It’s just not worth it.
20 years back clients had a few lines in an LGBT weekly or a weekly alternative paper from which to judge your services by now they have virtually everything and still want more.

Definitely have noticed an uptick in odd and outright illegal requests on MF and M4M post the legal changes. My policy, informed by decades of experience, is to not respond to text shortcuts or inquiries that would put me in jeopardy. The photos are there and recent, the reviews are there, my real name is there I am not going to give a play by play to someone whom I have never met and who, for all I know, is on a burner phone. It’s just not worth it.
20 years back clients had a few lines in an LGBT weekly or a weekly alternative paper from which to judge your services by now they have virtually everything and still want more.

Definitely have noticed an uptick in odd and outright illegal requests on MF and M4M post the legal changes. My policy, informed by decades of experience, is to not respond to text shortcuts or inquiries that would put me in jeopardy. The photos are there and recent, the reviews are there, my real name is there I am not going to give a play by play to someone whom I have never met and who, for all I know, is on a burner phone. It’s just not worth it.
20 years back clients had a few lines in an LGBT weekly or a weekly alternative paper from which to judge your services by now they have virtually everything and still want more.

@bongripper, you're correct that being certified or licensed isn't a guarantee of skill or quality of massage. Note that it was one of many "check-boxes" that I listed. Education is probably the best way to determine someone's interest and potential skills because "the best" in any field tend to be people who are passionate about learning in that field. Yes, some people "just have the touch" but that's only because they pay attention! Touch is the most fundamental of our senses. It's arguably our first sense when we're born and the last we usually lose when we're dying.
 
A great book about touch: https://mitpress.mit.edu/books/first-sense
 
The gentleman you mention, Wilson, must've been passionate, that and money or time are requirements to student at Esalen, which is a wonderful place to learn and grow.

Gotta say the greatest massages that I have ever received (and I have had hundreds) were from the late Glenn Wilson of Tucson, Arizona. He had very limited Esalen training and some Lomi Lomi. Some guys just have the touch. When Arizona went to licensing about 15 years ago he did not bite and chose to remain unlicensed. So if you asked Glenn for his license he would have come up short on that test. There are many trained masseurs (I have 1,200 hours) who choose not to license because then they have something to take away from you and also it is best to leave licensing to those who are playing that game. Also sometimes strictly therapeutic masseurs, as I am sure some of you have experienced, will exclude whole portions of your body (glutes come to mind) or spend 80 percent of the time working on your back. It is trial and error. Also many great M4M masseurs do have reviews on yelp so do your research (google by phone number.) Like many thing in life it is trial and error.
 

Gotta say the greatest massages that I have ever received (and I have had hundreds) were from the late Glenn Wilson of Tucson, Arizona. He had very limited Esalen training and some Lomi Lomi. Some guys just have the touch. When Arizona went to licensing about 15 years ago he did not bite and chose to remain unlicensed. So if you asked Glenn for his license he would have come up short on that test. There are many trained masseurs (I have 1,200 hours) who choose not to license because then they have something to take away from you and also it is best to leave licensing to those who are playing that game. Also sometimes strictly therapeutic masseurs, as I am sure some of you have experienced, will exclude whole portions of your body (glutes come to mind) or spend 80 percent of the time working on your back. It is trial and error. Also many great M4M masseurs do have reviews on yelp so do your research (google by phone number.) Like many thing in life it is trial and error.
 

Gotta say the greatest massages that I have ever received (and I have had hundreds) were from the late Glenn Wilson of Tucson, Arizona. He had very limited Esalen training and some Lomi Lomi. Some guys just have the touch. When Arizona went to licensing about 15 years ago he did not bite and chose to remain unlicensed. So if you asked Glenn for his license he would have come up short on that test. There are many trained masseurs (I have 1,200 hours) who choose not to license because then they have something to take away from you and also it is best to leave licensing to those who are playing that game. Also sometimes strictly therapeutic masseurs, as I am sure some of you have experienced, will exclude whole portions of your body (glutes come to mind) or spend 80 percent of the time working on your back. It is trial and error. Also many great M4M masseurs do have reviews on yelp so do your research (google by phone number.) Like many thing in life it is trial and error.
 

Gotta say the greatest massages that I have ever received (and I have had hundreds) were from the late Glenn Wilson of Tucson, Arizona. He had very limited Esalen training and some Lomi Lomi. Some guys just have the touch. When Arizona went to licensing about 15 years ago he did not bite and chose to remain unlicensed. So if you asked Glenn for his license he would have come up short on that test. There are many trained masseurs (I have 1,200 hours) who choose not to license because then they have something to take away from you and also it is best to leave licensing to those who are playing that game. Also sometimes strictly therapeutic masseurs, as I am sure some of you have experienced, will exclude whole portions of your body (glutes come to mind) or spend 80 percent of the time working on your back. It is trial and error. Also many great M4M masseurs do have reviews on yelp so do your research (google by phone number.) Like many thing in life it is trial and error.
 

In over 20 years geared more to providing the massage end of the spectrum I have a couple of thoughts. There is the “conquest end” I am thinking of one client in particular who I worked with him
and his husband for about 8 years. He certainly had the money to pay for escort services (they hired an array of them weekly to supplement their sex life.). And they had decided that they wanted to hire me for weekly massage. The problem for me was he (not his husband) pushed for more every session. So I finally bluntly asked what was going on? I got a tearful response about conquest and a promise to respect boundaries that remained kept until the end of our journey together.
My second thought is the bargain escort theory. Rightfully massage services generally are cheaper than escort services. More energy exchanged=more money charged seems like a fair equation. So a certain percentage of customers who use massage sites are trying to see if they can “trip” the equation and get more energy for less money. Like you I think why not just be a grown up and be clear with what you want? And in the tenuous times that the industry is going through why open up these sites to trouble? But in the recent governmental changes this dynamic has been set into hyperdrive in my experience.

I’ve not been there since I moved out of Denver.
 
However, in this climate it may be worth to try some new things. Different websites work differently in different areas. I personally don’t like MFs pricing structure.
 
Rentmen is my go to, but these games being played are getting on my last. Mainly in Florida. Idk what it is with the guys out here. Just too many games. I need to run away for a few weeks or something.
 
My only thing with massage sites is, I just feel sly when someone contacts me saying they just want a massage. Rarely does it end up that way. Yes, I do massage. I can get all the kinks and work all the muscles. But I can’t charge $250 for a massage without getting partially scolded for my rates. And personally, due to the fact that I have to travel for all of my appointments, I can’t justify charging the same for a massage like I did back in 2010 when I lived in San Antonio and paid only $475 a month to rent a 1 bedroom.
 
I’m not not charging for massage. I’m charging for the entire experience. I prefer to know exactly what someone wants, versus saying stuff like “deep penetrating massage” or prostate massage etc. You want an escort/masseur to fuck you? Just say it then...

Yeah prices skyrocketed in California after it was legalized. they’ve taken away large dose edibles and have added packaging which has also raised the rates. Which is a shame because it was basically legal for the past 20 years with a recommendation that was easy to get. Actually there has been a lot of talk about lowering the taxes because a lot people are just going to the black market and there revenue estimates are of by 60 percent in the wrong direction. Even so I believe in firmly in allowing people access to the things that they want It is a tax that I will grin and pay. For convenience I go with a Vape pen and anything indica is my go to.

Prices in dispensaries are higher because they are taxed. That is why my choice is leafedin.org. I didnnot try them because I found a provider I like, but I have seen the dispensaries offering their product also in leafedin. There is a chance they are selling there out of the record, you should check and compare the prices.

I use a vape pen and those oil cartridges. It's the same to me as smoking the plant and the effects vary among those you described and more. Just like the plant.