solacesoul

I get what you might be trying to convey here, but it is not really an accurate depiction of how modern young brasileiros interact with and respond to each other and others they are familiar with. Also, it comes across as a distant academic assessment from someone who hasn’t spent much time interacting with or observing BrazilIan men in their own element (i.e., away from turistas and gringos, and not in a hotel room or a suite in a sauna).
 
They do say “thank you” to other BrazilIans and others whom they are socially familiar with ALL THE TIME. To suggest that young brasileiros do not commonly say “thank you” is “cultural” would be straight-up offensive to BrazilIans and is veering into xenophobia territory — in addition to it just being a false observation / conclusion.
 
Casual tourists and non-locals wouldn’t be expected to know this, but modern brasileiros don’t often use “obrigado” with each other. They use “valeu” or the often shortened sound of “bri-ga “ which is shortened from “brigado” which was shortened from “obrigado” (the “verbal” thanks that you post about in your cigarette or pizza slice “favour” example above). And on the “connective” side that you also bring up, they have handshakes (which vary by region) that they only do with those brasileiros with whom they are already familiar and friendly —- not very likely to be an older sauna tourist client who is not a regular conversationalist in BrazilIan Portuguese and not “in the mix”.
 
I also have to add here that although these are things you may hear, see, or pick up on, they are very casual and informal between familiar brasileiros — and as an outsider, you (yes, that means you, reader) should never be so presumptuous or familiar to say or do them with other brasileiros.
 
I’m not trying to be mean or troll you here, just being direct, hoping that readers will better understand this than academic treatises.

A good policy is to give from the heart without any expectations. As a wise woman told me years ago, “expectations create disappointments”. A corollary to that policy is to give only as much as you can afford to lose.
 
If it brings you joy to send $150 USD to 6 different BrazilIan garotos de programa through Western Union — knowing that doing so won’t make your relationship with any of them any closer or any more intimate or special than the ones they have with clients that do not — and it doesn’t cause you any financial pain or discomfort, then do it to your heart’s content.

A good policy is to give from the heart without any expectations. As a wise woman told me years ago, “expectations create disappointments”. A corollary to that policy is to give only as much as you can afford to lose.
 
If it brings you joy to send $150 USD to 6 different BrazilIan garotos de programa through Western Union — knowing that doing so won’t make your relationship with any of them any closer or any more intimate or special than the ones they have with clients that do not — and it doesn’t cause you any financial pain or discomfort, then do it to your heart’s content.

Apologies accepted for being pedantic and not knowing that a proper study would include statistical averages as part of the results but also conclusions in form of statements that I purposely called "generalizations". But of course I do not expect any references to the nonexistent study.
 
Averages in the number of instances of a particular behavior can be calculated.
 
Yes, but the numbers themselves can't tell any story to the people not familiar with statistics or the field of study. That's why we have results interpretation to find the insights that would explain said behaviour.
 
(For e.g. of the result of a study could be: in one country the phrase "You're welcome" is used on average 22 times per day as observed on a the group that is being studied, whereas "De nada" was used 8 times per day on average as observed on another group of a similar age and social status in another country).
And when those averages are different from one country to another that is interesting to know, and it can, sometimes, explain misunderstandings between 2 nationals of different countries.
 
I forgive you for completely missing the point about my expression "National Study that allows you to make generalizations about an entire country" because that would be complete non-sense. Brazil is a nation of 213 Million, just as big as the US, with massive economic and social inequalities across the entire population. Even if possible to be calculated, anyone saying that national averages could be used to describe every single element of a diverse universe of 213 million is just delusional.
 
http://thegate.boardingarea.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/Screen-Shot-2017-08-05-at-9.37.12-AM.png
 
You can do cultural studies by just stating facts and reporting what you find. You don't have to make "generalizations".
 
Yes, generalizations don't apply. And no, you can't do a cultural study by just reporting and stating facts. It's not Accounting, it's Human / Social Sciences (reference in my comment above).
 
TO CLOSE: Insinuating ( as some have, at the beginning of this thread ) that all Brazilians have an ungrateful culture is misguided and falls into xenophobia and racism, so please stop it.

I partially disagree. These boys are in disadvantage yes, but they aren't 'exploited'. There's a MUTUAL agreement. Worst case one could say they're 'using' the clients, and viceversa. Rates are lower there yes, but we can't accept scams under cultural (or any) circumstances. For the record: Brazilians in general ARE thankful, these guys were just scammers. There was undue trust, money was lost, boys will be boys. But more importantly, please STOP ... fighting ... over men ... you haven't ... fucked. Only women do that, Yuck! ?

I think it’s funny how so many of those from the western world, travel to second and third world nations, exploiting economically disadvantaged men for sex, and then have the unmitigated audacity to be offended at their lack of “grattitude”. ?‍♂️
 
Many of these guys save you from having to empty your pockets for $500 per hour escorts in your own countries, and allow you to treat them like disposable orifices and phallics for your sheer cheap enjoyment.
 
So if some Brazillian guys doesn’t say “Thank You”, then so what?
 
You should actually be “Thanking ” him anyways....

Please don’t take this offensively, but what would make you think they should be “grateful”, for your “donations”..... they clearly understand that the transactional interactions they have with visitors from other countries are simply for 1.) sexual gratification, and 2.) exploitation. They know that what they are “paid”, are drops in the bucket for many travelers who visit those saunas, and know that they need every dime they can get for “services provided”. You've benefitted from cheap entertainment from workers who can’t demand higher pricing for quite some time. So although it’s good of you to send some money.... it’s not an honorable act of a saint.

A good policy is to give from the heart without any expectations. As a wise woman told me years ago, “expectations create disappointments”. A corollary to that policy is to give only as much as you can afford to lose.
 
If it brings you joy to send $150 USD to 6 different BrazilIan garotos de programa through Western Union — knowing that doing so won’t make your relationship with any of them any closer or any more intimate or special than the ones they have with clients that do not — and it doesn’t cause you any financial pain or discomfort, then do it to your heart’s content.

As I stated above, it’s very difficult for Brazilian men with no ”legitimate” non-sex related permanent job in Brazil to get a visa for legal entry to the USA.

Agree with you. One of the "brazilian garotos" in New York, has been here on "student visas" for the past 5 years. How he can renew it, i don't know... but i know he has to leave the country periodically before returning. Usually he visits a friend in spain, but he refuses to work in the saunas there as it cheapens his worth...lol.

So much of this is inaccurate and misleading.
 
The highest sauna entry fee in Brazil is 70 reais on a certain night. The most expensive suite rate (which happens to be at a different sauna) in Brazil is 55 reais per 30-40 minutes (the time for 1 sauna programa). Even if you combined the highest sauna price with the most expensive suite fee from two different Brazilian saunas, that’s only 125 reais — which, as of today, equals only $22.55 USD. That’s NOT $40 USD and not even close. Not even with New Math.
 
The only way to cross $40 USD is to add the separate costs of the programa / session that the client pays the garoto / sex worker individually — which would be about 100 reais and up ($18 USD). Or if you’re not adding in the costs for the garoto, then the math could only get to $40 USD with entrance + suite if you overstay your suite stay by an extra 90 minutes.
 
By comparison, at Sauna Thermas in Barcelona, the entry fee is 18 EUR and the most expensive room is 15 EUR a session, so that’s a total of 33 Euros for entry and suite. That’s $36 USD, $14 more than the highest cost in Brazil. Just entry to Thermas alone would be $19.65 USD— only $3 USD less than the costs of entry AND a suite at the most expensive sauna night in Brazil.
 
If you toss in the cost of a sauna session at Sauna Thermas in Barcelona, paid directly to the sex worker — about 50 euros or 55 USD — it’s STILL about twice as expensive as a sauna programa in Brazil, at 100 (minimum) to 150 reais (more common) — which is $18 to $27 USD.
 
As for the specious claim that “the top Brazilians often go to the US and Europe”, this also is untrue. Only a few are able to travel to Europe (usually on the dime of a paying client or club), and with current stricter immigration policies in the USA (especially for unemployed BrazilIan men in a certain age demographic), even fewer go to the USA. The overwhelming majority of Brazilian garotos do not travel to Europe or the USA, and that has very little to do with looks or build (no matter what that preference of look or build is). The truth is the number of Brazilian sauna garotos who both travel to either Europe or the USA AND who still work in the sex trade when they are there is very small — it tends to be the same ones. Just because you see some “top BrazilIans” at two saunas in Europe, that doesn’t mean that’s most of them in Brazil — a country of 210 million people!

So much of this is inaccurate and misleading.
 
The highest sauna entry fee in Brazil is 70 reais on a certain night. The most expensive suite rate (which happens to be at a different sauna) in Brazil is 55 reais per 30-40 minutes (the time for 1 sauna programa). Even if you combined the highest sauna price with the most expensive suite fee from two different Brazilian saunas, that’s only 125 reais — which, as of today, equals only $22.55 USD. That’s NOT $40 USD and not even close. Not even with New Math.
 
The only way to cross $40 USD is to add the separate costs of the programa / session that the client pays the garoto / sex worker individually — which would be about 100 reais and up ($18 USD). Or if you’re not adding in the costs for the garoto, then the math could only get to $40 USD with entrance + suite if you overstay your suite stay by an extra 90 minutes.
 
By comparison, at Sauna Thermas in Barcelona, the entry fee is 18 EUR and the most expensive room is 15 EUR a session, so that’s a total of 33 Euros for entry and suite. That’s $36 USD, $14 more than the highest cost in Brazil. Just entry to Thermas alone would be $19.65 USD— only $3 USD less than the costs of entry AND a suite at the most expensive sauna night in Brazil.
 
If you toss in the cost of a sauna session at Sauna Thermas in Barcelona, paid directly to the sex worker — about 50 euros or 55 USD — it’s STILL about twice as expensive as a sauna programa in Brazil, at 100 (minimum) to 150 reais (more common) — which is $18 to $27 USD.
 
As for the specious claim that “the top Brazilians often go to the US and Europe”, this also is untrue. Only a few are able to travel to Europe (usually on the dime of a paying client or club), and with current stricter immigration policies in the USA (especially for unemployed BrazilIan men in a certain age demographic), even fewer go to the USA. The overwhelming majority of Brazilian garotos do not travel to Europe or the USA, and that has very little to do with looks or build (no matter what that preference of look or build is). The truth is the number of Brazilian sauna garotos who both travel to either Europe or the USA AND who still work in the sex trade when they are there is very small — it tends to be the same ones. Just because you see some “top BrazilIans” at two saunas in Europe, that doesn’t mean that’s most of them in Brazil — a country of 210 million people!

Hmm, interesting. That's not what I was told by Cubans. And not what I experienced when I was in hospital with 'regular' Cubans. Just a regular neighbourhood hospital, I was the only foreigner in there. It was different, families were everywhere and often brought meals, to share, and felt more 'social' that my experience with hospitals here. But even as a foreigner it was free. Drugs are probably scarce, one of the effects of the continuing USA boycott and embargo on any kind of trade with Cuba. But still, Cuba does maintain better population level health outcomes that the USA, in terms of infant mortality rates, life expectancy and obesity rates (and no it's not from a food shortage). Certainly the health system in Cuba is less two-tiered than the USA system is. If a two-tiered health care system is a concern of yours, you must be up in arms about the for-profit health care system that completely dominates in the USA.

So much of this is inaccurate and misleading.
 
The highest sauna entry fee in Brazil is 70 reais on a certain night. The most expensive suite rate (which happens to be at a different sauna) in Brazil is 55 reais per 30-40 minutes (the time for 1 sauna programa). Even if you combined the highest sauna price with the most expensive suite fee from two different Brazilian saunas, that’s only 125 reais — which, as of today, equals only $22.55 USD. That’s NOT $40 USD and not even close. Not even with New Math.
 
The only way to cross $40 USD is to add the separate costs of the programa / session that the client pays the garoto / sex worker individually — which would be about 100 reais and up ($18 USD). Or if you’re not adding in the costs for the garoto, then the math could only get to $40 USD with entrance + suite if you overstay your suite stay by an extra 90 minutes.
 
By comparison, at Sauna Thermas in Barcelona, the entry fee is 18 EUR and the most expensive room is 15 EUR a session, so that’s a total of 33 Euros for entry and suite. That’s $36 USD, $14 more than the highest cost in Brazil. Just entry to Thermas alone would be $19.65 USD— only $3 USD less than the costs of entry AND a suite at the most expensive sauna night in Brazil.
 
If you toss in the cost of a sauna session at Sauna Thermas in Barcelona, paid directly to the sex worker — about 50 euros or 55 USD — it’s STILL about twice as expensive as a sauna programa in Brazil, at 100 (minimum) to 150 reais (more common) — which is $18 to $27 USD.
 
As for the specious claim that “the top Brazilians often go to the US and Europe”, this also is untrue. Only a few are able to travel to Europe (usually on the dime of a paying client or club), and with current stricter immigration policies in the USA (especially for unemployed BrazilIan men in a certain age demographic), even fewer go to the USA. The overwhelming majority of Brazilian garotos do not travel to Europe or the USA, and that has very little to do with looks or build (no matter what that preference of look or build is). The truth is the number of Brazilian sauna garotos who both travel to either Europe or the USA AND who still work in the sex trade when they are there is very small — it tends to be the same ones. Just because you see some “top BrazilIans” at two saunas in Europe, that doesn’t mean that’s most of them in Brazil — a country of 210 million people!

A good policy is to give from the heart without any expectations. As a wise woman told me years ago, “expectations create disappointments”. A corollary to that policy is to give only as much as you can afford to lose.
 
If it brings you joy to send $150 USD to 6 different BrazilIan garotos de programa through Western Union — knowing that doing so won’t make your relationship with any of them any closer or any more intimate or special than the ones they have with clients that do not — and it doesn’t cause you any financial pain or discomfort, then do it to your heart’s content.

Boy those last posts were better than an ambien. Click zzzzz

A good policy is to give from the heart without any expectations. As a wise woman told me years ago, “expectations create disappointments”. A corollary to that policy is to give only as much as you can afford to lose.
 
If it brings you joy to send $150 USD to 6 different BrazilIan garotos de programa through Western Union — knowing that doing so won’t make your relationship with any of them any closer or any more intimate or special than the ones they have with clients that do not — and it doesn’t cause you any financial pain or discomfort, then do it to your heart’s content.

I get what you might be trying to convey here, but it is not really an accurate depiction of how modern young brasileiros interact with and respond to each other and others they are familiar with. Also, it comes across as a distant academic assessment from someone who hasn’t spent much time interacting with or observing BrazilIan men in their own element (i.e., away from turistas and gringos, and not in a hotel room or a suite in a sauna).
 
They do say “thank you” to other BrazilIans and others whom they are socially familiar with ALL THE TIME. To suggest that young brasileiros do not commonly say “thank you” is “cultural” would be straight-up offensive to BrazilIans and is veering into xenophobia territory — in addition to it just being a false observation / conclusion.
 
Casual tourists and non-locals wouldn’t be expected to know this, but modern brasileiros don’t often use “obrigado” with each other. They use “valeu” or the often shortened sound of “bri-ga “ which is shortened from “brigado” which was shortened from “obrigado” (the “verbal” thanks that you post about in your cigarette or pizza slice “favour” example above). And on the “connective” side that you also bring up, they have handshakes (which vary by region) that they only do with those brasileiros with whom they are already familiar and friendly —- not very likely to be an older sauna tourist client who is not a regular conversationalist in BrazilIan Portuguese and not “in the mix”.
 
I also have to add here that although these are things you may hear, see, or pick up on, they are very casual and informal between familiar brasileiros — and as an outsider, you (yes, that means you, reader) should never be so presumptuous or familiar to say or do them with other brasileiros.
 
I’m not trying to be mean or troll you here, just being direct, hoping that readers will better understand this than academic treatises.

“Not trying to be mean or ... troll”.
 
Sounds much more humble than other forum contributors bent on critical appraisal that blames, shames, maims with memes.

A good policy is to give from the heart without any expectations. As a wise woman told me years ago, “expectations create disappointments”. A corollary to that policy is to give only as much as you can afford to lose.
 
If it brings you joy to send $150 USD to 6 different BrazilIan garotos de programa through Western Union — knowing that doing so won’t make your relationship with any of them any closer or any more intimate or special than the ones they have with clients that do not — and it doesn’t cause you any financial pain or discomfort, then do it to your heart’s content.

A good policy is to give from the heart without any expectations. As a wise woman told me years ago, “expectations create disappointments”. A corollary to that policy is to give only as much as you can afford to lose.
 
If it brings you joy to send $150 USD to 6 different BrazilIan garotos de programa through Western Union — knowing that doing so won’t make your relationship with any of them any closer or any more intimate or special than the ones they have with clients that do not — and it doesn’t cause you any financial pain or discomfort, then do it to your heart’s content.

Helpful advice to Brazil travelers, as well as those living or staying there for extended periods: Please be careful NOT to yield to any temptation of taking photos of and / or posting photos of guys you see or meet in Brazil without their advance consent.
 
Posting, publishing or taking photos of someone without that person’s permission is not only highly unethical, but also it is a crime in Brazil — that is enforced and is punishable by fines and jail time.
 
The law in Brazil on this subject is one of the strictest laws in the world that criminalizes, with monetary and civil penalty, posting or taking or publishing an image of a private individual without their express consent. The only 3 exceptions are for (1) public figures performing their public functions or activities (not in private life), (2) people who are present in a public space or participating in a public event (unless the depicted person is the main focus of or singled out in the picture), and (3) people related to news events of public interest (only if necessary and reasonably justified and if the reported facts are true). [ NOTE: none of these 3 exceptions would apply to escorts, sex workers, sauna workers, Grindr profiles and/or guys whose photos that you may find on social media and think they are so hot that you feel tempted to post their photos on the internet without their permission. ]
 
Even if the photo was previously taken, or was posted at another place, like that individual’s Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp account, if you do NOT have prior authorization to post that person’s photo in Brazil, do NOT even think about posting it.
 
It doesn’t matter if the person is nude, shirtless or fully clothed. It does not even matter if your intentions were pure and innocent. If the Brazilian subject of the photo did not authorize you to post or publish the photo, then don’t do it or else you risk being criminally and civilly liable in Brazil.
 
However, if the unauthorized photo is published in a derogatory or sexual manner or at a site related to sex, sex work, or pornography (like a site such as this one, for example), that makes the likelihood of conviction even easier and the penalty even harsher.
 
“The generally accepted doctrine, legalized by case law, specifically recognizes the image right as an autonomous personality right. This means, the right to one’s own image is protected as such. Just taking someone's photo without their permission (in private or public space) can violate their image right and gives them a right to compensation for moral damage. Of course, copying, reproducing, transfering, distributing, publishing or commercializing such a picture are illegal and anti-constitutional acts. Simultaneous prejudice to honour or reputation is not necessary. If the image is commercially exploited or used in a derogatory way, this will only aggrave the situation, but it is not a requirement for infraction complaint.”
 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Country_specific_consent_requirements

Helpful advice to Brazil travelers, as well as those living or staying there for extended periods: Please be careful NOT to yield to any temptation of taking photos of and / or posting photos of guys you see or meet in Brazil without their advance consent.
 
Posting, publishing or taking photos of someone without that person’s permission is not only highly unethical, but also it is a crime in Brazil — that is enforced and is punishable by fines and jail time.
 
The law in Brazil on this subject is one of the strictest laws in the world that criminalizes, with monetary and civil penalty, posting or taking or publishing an image of a private individual without their express consent. The only 3 exceptions are for (1) public figures performing their public functions or activities (not in private life), (2) people who are present in a public space or participating in a public event (unless the depicted person is the main focus of or singled out in the picture), and (3) people related to news events of public interest (only if necessary and reasonably justified and if the reported facts are true). [ NOTE: none of these 3 exceptions would apply to escorts, sex workers, sauna workers, Grindr profiles and/or guys whose photos that you may find on social media and think they are so hot that you feel tempted to post their photos on the internet without their permission. ]
 
Even if the photo was previously taken, or was posted at another place, like that individual’s Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp account, if you do NOT have prior authorization to post that person’s photo in Brazil, do NOT even think about posting it.
 
It doesn’t matter if the person is nude, shirtless or fully clothed. It does not even matter if your intentions were pure and innocent. If the Brazilian subject of the photo did not authorize you to post or publish the photo, then don’t do it or else you risk being criminally and civilly liable in Brazil.
 
However, if the unauthorized photo is published in a derogatory or sexual manner or at a site related to sex, sex work, or pornography (like a site such as this one, for example), that makes the likelihood of conviction even easier and the penalty even harsher.
 
“The generally accepted doctrine, legalized by case law, specifically recognizes the image right as an autonomous personality right. This means, the right to one’s own image is protected as such. Just taking someone's photo without their permission (in private or public space) can violate their image right and gives them a right to compensation for moral damage. Of course, copying, reproducing, transfering, distributing, publishing or commercializing such a picture are illegal and anti-constitutional acts. Simultaneous prejudice to honour or reputation is not necessary. If the image is commercially exploited or used in a derogatory way, this will only aggrave the situation, but it is not a requirement for infraction complaint.”
 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Country_specific_consent_requirements

Helpful advice to Brazil travelers, as well as those living or staying there for extended periods: Please be careful NOT to yield to any temptation of taking photos of and / or posting photos of guys you see or meet in Brazil without their advance consent.
 
Posting, publishing or taking photos of someone without that person’s permission is not only highly unethical, but also it is a crime in Brazil — that is enforced and is punishable by fines and jail time.
 
The law in Brazil on this subject is one of the strictest laws in the world that criminalizes, with monetary and civil penalty, posting or taking or publishing an image of a private individual without their express consent. The only 3 exceptions are for (1) public figures performing their public functions or activities (not in private life), (2) people who are present in a public space or participating in a public event (unless the depicted person is the main focus of or singled out in the picture), and (3) people related to news events of public interest (only if necessary and reasonably justified and if the reported facts are true). [ NOTE: none of these 3 exceptions would apply to escorts, sex workers, sauna workers, Grindr profiles and/or guys whose photos that you may find on social media and think they are so hot that you feel tempted to post their photos on the internet without their permission. ]
 
Even if the photo was previously taken, or was posted at another place, like that individual’s Facebook, Instagram or WhatsApp account, if you do NOT have prior authorization to post that person’s photo in Brazil, do NOT even think about posting it.
 
It doesn’t matter if the person is nude, shirtless or fully clothed. It does not even matter if your intentions were pure and innocent. If the Brazilian subject of the photo did not authorize you to post or publish the photo, then don’t do it or else you risk being criminally and civilly liable in Brazil.
 
However, if the unauthorized photo is published in a derogatory or sexual manner or at a site related to sex, sex work, or pornography (like a site such as this one, for example), that makes the likelihood of conviction even easier and the penalty even harsher.
 
“The generally accepted doctrine, legalized by case law, specifically recognizes the image right as an autonomous personality right. This means, the right to one’s own image is protected as such. Just taking someone's photo without their permission (in private or public space) can violate their image right and gives them a right to compensation for moral damage. Of course, copying, reproducing, transfering, distributing, publishing or commercializing such a picture are illegal and anti-constitutional acts. Simultaneous prejudice to honour or reputation is not necessary. If the image is commercially exploited or used in a derogatory way, this will only aggrave the situation, but it is not a requirement for infraction complaint.”
 
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Country_specific_consent_requirements

As someone who is / was in both Rio and SP at or around these same times, and regularly is, I would not agree with this statement at all. For my type of garoto, due to my frequent travels and visits, I pretty much know all the players in several BrazilIan cities — and I was still able to find and meet “fresh new faces” at these saunas. In fact, I have met more at 117 and 202 during this trip than at the new Lagoa. But again, maybe this depends on the type of garoto you seek — as I’m almost exclusively into well-built, muscular, masculine men. The others aren’t really on my radar (although I have enough of a memory to remember if I have seen a certain garoto in person before).
 

 
Agreed! Although I do know a few gogo boys who danced there. But they also dance at other clubs and saunas in Rio and SP — it’s a rotation, so nothing exclusive.
 

 
I commented about this earlier. In the 3 busiest days I went in December, 2 of those days had more clients than garotos, and only 1 day (Friday) was reminiscent of the old Lagoa in its heyday. Yes it is very new and very clean — I will concede that, but “lots of guys”? Hit or miss! My opinion is it is no longer the premier sauna in Brazil in quality / quantity of garotos and ease of use, having lost that to 117 (even in the last year or so of the grand old Lagoa), and competes now with 202 for a second / third place finish. But yes, still worth a visit.