Mocha

I’ve “heard” of people having success in Charlotte, “before” at “one point in time”. Regardless, I can’t help but think of: Certainly doesn’t sound like a hotbed of gay sex workers lol

Good point. But, I wouldn’t bet a city’s success on a political campaign rally. I try to even avoid traveling at all whenever there’s a big political unrest in general: race wars, gun violence, hurricanes, etc. Like right now, I made a pact to stay in the far northern/western states during hurricane season rather than Florida. People will rather spend $250 on bread, gas and water than an hour or so of sheer pleasure. Sad how the media fucks with everyone’s mind. I lived in Florida for 21 years...I already know every hurricane always carves a path right up the coast to North Carolina. That’s why the US shoreline is shaped like it is lol.

I agree, and over the past couple of weeks...I’ve really had to go out of my way to make up some appointments I had to cancel with clients, and it ended up working out. However, if we set aside the fact the escort wasn’t real, and assume this was someone else...I’m just still wondering why the OP didn’t just initially offer what his budget is when the escort told him his rate? Why did he wait for the escort to counter offer, and then add “but not trying to haggle”. See...when people do that, I feel like that opens the door to ping pong ? Now you’re trying to see who’s going to give in first, is he going to give in to my price, or am I going to offer a little bit more. I think if someone is really interested in seeing someone, the conversation shouldn’t dead at price. That conversation was literally over in 2 exchanges...and tenderloin deaded the conversation before it even started, “that’s too much, but thanks anyway”. That’s a slap in the face. And I’ve had it before. And don’t be fooled into thinking $400 is too much. Sometimes people say $250 is too much, $150 is too much, anything more than FREE is too much for some. So forget about the amount. That’s the problem I have with this situation. I don’t feel the escort should be looked down on, considering the initial approach was a bit condescending to begin with.

But it’s also an indication the escort isn’t putting his foot down enough. If someone disappears at the time of the appointment, it’s either cancellation fee or..get written up. Just like when you don’t show up for school/work. Because guaranteed, they’re going to do it again to him or someone else. As long as people allow the shit to continue, it’s going to go with the territory. I had one guy (then again who knows, watching catfish on MTV it could even be a woman sometimes) who stood me up couple months ago, only to come back around last weekend and ask if I was in the area again. Like damn, these people don’t learn. And even though he was using a “VOIP” number, I still had it saved. And of course, someone else verified he did that same to them.

What’s strange about it? My point was if someone has in mind a certain budget, don’t ask what their rate is right off the bat. First get the basics out the way, something like “hi, my name is” and “are you able to host or come to me”, and “what length of sessions do you offer, 30 min, 60 min. 90 min?” then talk about he money part. That goes a long way from just texting someone off the bat asking what their rate is. It’s been working for me. I rarely tell someone my rate off the bat. It’s like when you call a lawyer, they never tell you their rates off the bat. You have to chat, feel out the situation, and then have options. I have on several occasions done stuff for $100/$150 if the client just wants something very simple, and it’s not going to interfere with any other appointments. But again, I don’t think the provider in question was honest anyway...and like I’ve said before, don’t believe every person on Rentmen is. I will never forget: I had a client arrange a 3som session with me and a White girl. She walked in, got her $200 upfront, and then said that’s just her agency fee for coming, if he wants to do anything else, she needs another $200 for any sex. She never even took her clothes off and only me and the client ended up doing a little vanilla. He just wanted to have a girl in the room watching him do it. And she got it. I didn’t necessarily agree with it, but I don’t think he necessarily told her I was going to be there...so I wouldn’t blame her.

That’s what I’m saying, and that’s why I said bad approach on both parts. I’ll give @tenderloin some credit, he did at least state his budget, and did say he didn’t want to haggle...and even agreed to meet the escort for his stated budget. However...when he added “but” to not trying to haggle, it also kind of made it seem like he was doing exactly what you mentioned. Whether or not that was the case is debatable. I think “I don’t have that much, but would you be open to consider $XXX” would have been better than “my budget is $XXX, but I’m not trying to haggle”. That little change of sentence changes the whole demeanor of the question. However, the “escort” in question certainly pulled a dick move by withdrawing the offer and adding that someone else was willing to pay $100 extra. And within that short time period? It sounds sketchy as fuck. So I’m not taking sides with him either.

I didn’t look at the guy’s ad because it’s irrelevant to this conversation. However, I say not a good approach on both parts...you and him, unfortunately. If this message is verbatim, There was no introduction from you when you asked for rates, and there was no finding of info from you on his part. Sometimes I want to say to clients who gawk at prices, “don’t ask a question if you’re not prepared to hear the answer”. that’s not to be rude, but that’s basically just saying...before you jump right to asking for rates, try to feel out the situation. Include info about yourself, maybe offer what you CAN afford and see if you and he can meet close to it. Like when people (usually timewasters) ask, “how much?”. How much for what??? That deads the conversation and any chance of a meeting happening. I feel like people who ask a price and then decline when I say it, it comes off like they’re on a “hunt” and not really using much discernment.

I wouldn’t be surprised...but so it’s everywhere else. At the same time, the reason why a lot of us are still in business, is because they know you’re getting prime beef when you go the RentMen Route. I had a client the other day tell me about a guy who’s in his 20s, and meets him for company and occasional sex. According to him, the guy is not a paid provider, but merely likes to come over to get away and be comfortable being “gay” so to speak. The client is like 60 or 70 years old. When clients tell me stories like that, I just be like...that’s great if you found something that works for you. But I let them know I don’t have an interest in casual relationships with guys twice my senior. I’ve done it before in my pre-escorting days...but ultimately realized a lot of those guys never really end up committing to one guy (and usually have a couple they keep around), and it’s unlikely to really “get” anything out of it in the long run. Not saying that one has to be in a situation with an older guy only to “get something”, but if I’m going to be doing any kind of casual relationship, I want it to be with someone who’s relatable to an extent. I don’t have the same level of experience of someone who’s a grandad and has kids who have kids, widowed/divorced, has his mortgage paid off and etc etc.

I was just having a conversation with someone about him wanting to move to NYC. He wasn’t a provider, but he’s young and has the desire to move out to New York...citing having a roommate and a good job could allow someone to make it. I was like...go for it, but I ain’t lol. I just can’t see myself making it in New York. If it’s anything like Chicago and LA, one tends to drown in the sea of availability there are in those markets. I was in Chicago for 1 night over the weekend. Having already familiar with how things go, I got 4 texts/calls the first day I was there...but of course non of them pan out. Then they moan and say “that’s too far” when you say you’re staying 30 miles outside of Chicago. Like yes, because I’m not paying $200 a night for a hotel in Labor Day weekend, with no guarantee of making that money back. I stayed 30 miles outside of town, and had a cheap room and made more than my money back. So going forward I’ll never be pressed to stay in the city of chicago. Just like I wouldn’t be pressed to stay in Washington DC or Manhattan. There have been 2 times I’ve been able to meet clients or a good fuck staying well outside of the city of Chicago in the burbs. The options are far less plentiful than in the city, so people tend to appreciate and quickly book ...versus the fucking shenanigans in the city ??‍♂️ As an update, I can give a prognosis as to why Charlotte isn’t frequented more (even though I feel there’s already plenty of choices to go around already): It just doesn’t seem to be that reliable of a client base there. I was going to travel to Charlotte from Raleigh and spend a night or 2 there last weekend. I ended up cancelling it and continuing west. Non of the people who reached out to me were serious about scheduling, 1 guy was very rude, and I had to post a warning about. Another asked if I fucked bareback, then flaked and didn’t return messages. Then hit me up again as if nothing happened. Others didn’t confirm or follow up. This is going to sound harsh, but after this last trip to North Carolina I won’t be returning. I’ve said before, every since they passed that bill awhile back in North Carolina (almost similar to FOSTA) about registering people who use/sell escorts as sex offenders, the escort business vibe of that state has gone straight to hell. I’m sure it’s some good people here and there, and if someone is local and already has the idiots on block or have regular clients...but my impression is a bunch of ignorant hicks. Both Raleigh and Charlotte. I remembered exactly why I ended up driving halfway there from Florida back in December, and turning back around. The clientele there seem very flaky and shady. I would only go if someone flew me in or a deposit for a session.

I ask this because every once in awhile, I’ll have someone contact me on RentMasseur when I’m visiting and ask if I have table. I always let them know that it would be cumbersome to carry around a table when traveling, specifically if a provider is “on tour”, meaning going to several areas within a week or month. Would it appear less discrete to walk thru a hotel with a big folded massage table? How would that fit in the overhand bin/checked baggage on a plane I don’t have any pics in my ad with a table, and I used to carry a table, but I’ve let it go because I don’t feel they’re very comfortable to use (some of my techniques involve being on top/straddling someone...and I’m always concerned that 2 people on a massage table could fall/break), then the set up, and the space it takes. Plus I’m not a high volume masseur (no hating on those who do), and I mainly use RentMasseur to reach out to those who are more or less “testing” the waters, not because I want to open up the next Massage Envy. Unless there’s now some extremely portable massage table that can easily be moved from place to place, I just don’t see how someone would expect a traveling provider to carry a massage table around. Even traveling by car, space is limited for a table unless you’ve got a bigger suv.

Well...to an extent. But some of the articles posted seem to explain and answer those facts. I feel Rentmen has become an onlyfans of its own. That’s why I said 1,000 times already, private pics and videos need to be paid for. They don’t wanna listen to me though. So people keep looking at free content and wasting our time. Fortunately, it’s made me smarter in charging for my private pics, and collecting $10 “conversation fees”. I’m very close to just not talking to anyone unless they pay me $10 upfront. That’s not being greedy...that’s just not having the manpower to answer every single text that comes in to me, from people who don’t end up booking or who “drop out” of the conversation right when it gets down to the money part. This wasn’t as much of a problem when we used to be able to post rates. Like someone said to me last night in Milwaukee, “there’s guys out here sucking dick for blunts”. So it would make sense some of the rentmen clients contacting us may not be expecting livable rates.

Good article...it just reinforces what I already know and feel about social media: “The internet has become a place to treat identity and anonymity like a stack of cards in perpetual shuffle, whether on Second Life or in the quarrelsome forums of Reddit. Social media platforms function as digital canvases of endless self-creation and branding.” I don’t know. I am just an old soul to an extent. I can appreciate how social media (specially only fans and such) can bring people to normalize an “influencer”, but my experience with people who are “influential” on social media and give off this constant vibe that everything is rosy, and their pictures always show them looking sexy and flawless....usually have all sort of issues. But they portray and live this image of some type of idol. I’ve met guys who were big on social media, but had no car, lived with their grandmother, no job, no money, alcoholics, disrespectful, unreliable...but yet their social media was brimming with likes and followers as if they were such wonderful people. I just feel like we’re at a point where nothing is never enough. Being an escort posting face/nude pics isn’t enough. You’ve got to be on social media. Social media alone isn’t enough, you’ve got to be doing porn. Now doing porn isn’t enough, you’ve got to be on onlyfans and winning “subscribers”. I’m not saying one has to do all these things to be relevant, but I feel like every couple of years, I feel like I’m not doing enough...because there’s something else and another that you should be doing. The blogger also made a good point in the article: An influencer may be advertising content to God knows who of what type of people. You just don’t really know. At this point, I’m trying to take the direction into filming, but I know that’s like “old school” now. However, I don’t see getting anywhere with onlyfans just right off the bat. I’m doing better focusing on my individual clients and making sure people who don’t follow thru send me my cancellation fees, rather than putting into a full time business of trying to keep interest going on onlyfans.

Yeah, see in that case I woulda just kept my mouth shut. I just already know people won’t see eye to eye on certain political topics. At the end of the day, you do you, I do me. By the way, I’m just putting this thread on pause to address another topic.

Not sure what happened with this thread, but figured I’d follow up with my latest experience in Detroit since I was just there the other day. Stayed from a Wednesday to Saturday. This was my 2nd trip to the surrounding area(s). I mainly went to see 2 of my favorite regular clients...but I did have a couple of days to assess the market. Now, at this point with my travel experience, I’m well aware of 3 facts: A) 2 or 3 days isn’t long enough to really meet all your potential in a market. B) A City may not be good 1 week/month, but could be good on another week/month C) some cities have changed over the Years. However: my verdict on Detroit is I won’t be eager to plan another visit in the near future. I had several people reach out for a appointment on Rentmen and non of them except my 2 regulars showed up. Not to mention, A4A was not happening there either. Like I said, I wasn’t relying on meeting new clients because I was set. But, I wouldn’t go to Detroit unless I had something lined up anyway. I also tried remotely from some of the surrounding cities, Ann Arbor, Lansing, The Saguatack (can’t get that spelling right), Grand Rapids. All I got was a bunch of “feelers” from people who send, “are you in (insert name of city)”. Then I’d take the time out to respond, and they end up not coming thru. Again, it could be different another time...but I’m not eager to find out. Plus when I was in Detroit couple years ago, I noticed people were doing the same thing. Reaching out for bookings and not following back up. Detroit pretty much reinforced my vibe of many rust belt cities, and Chicago is 1 of them too. The potential is definitely there, but being it’s not really on the way to any places I visit...I can’t see any reason for me to go back to Michigan unless either 1 of my regular clients invite me back. So @ChristianCronin, its good that you already have another job lined up...If it were me I’d certainly want to have my hands on other things as well.

I want to try and keep this separate from a previously closed thread, but I sure would have liked to give my input before it was. I don’t feel the responses were necessarily helpful in the other thread, so I figure I would come back with a little more facts and reason. I personally don’t think it’s best for someone, anyone, to have their “protection” in an accessible location. The story could have been flipped if the person in question used the “protection” against the person it was supposed to be protecting..and it would have been a different story. Or, who’s to say one would exercise caution in the event of an “uncomfortable” but not necessarily “dangerous” situation? I personally am just not with guns, and there’s few occupations that really require one. Plus, if someone does fire off at someone...who’s to say they could prove self-defense? And if that client has a family/partner and the escort doesn’t, it’s easy to tell who the jury would mostly side with. I also feel guns are a false sense of safety. If someone really wanted to do something, they could fire off soon as the person opens the door. Unless the escort is answering the door guns drawn, what are they going to do? And like I said, if you leave it within reach to someone...who’s to say that person won’t overpower you and use it to their advantage? I say this because I’ve been in a handful of dangerous situation over the years (not necessarily escort related either). In all circumstances, there were far better ways of keeping safe (and keeping my belongings) than having a gun. I wouldn’t even want to carry a gun, because I may be tempted to fire off, and I come from the state of 10, 20, Life (though I don’t know what it is now with the whole stand your ground BS that they came out with). In case anyone thinks I’m making this up: https://www.google.com/amp/s/m.huffpost.com/us/entry/us_596e1a17e4b07f87578e6c1a/amp

Oh wow...yeah politics are a dead ended conversational. I’m generally fortunate that most of my clients tend to lean on the liberal side of things though.

https://m4m-forum.org/threads/whats-the-lesson-here-newbie-asks.151795/ Oh, they’ll be “loaded” alright. Probably shoot ya right in the face lol. Careful what ya wish for I suppose lol.

And Denver is a good example of that: it’s more expensive now after the “boom” and more and more people are struggling to make it on their own there.

Wow, so you’re saying the escort shared a tale of woe...but he just went off about it too many times? I try not to explicitly share with clients in person about experiences with flakes, unless I need to use it to make a point. And even then it’s very general. Something like, “yes I have to do the deposit because a lot of people say they’re going to show up to the hotel, then they don’t...So I rather hold this time just for YOU.” But like I was saying earlier...some of these assholes may very well be perfectly good people. The problem is they get on Rentmen and lose their common sense and courtesy. It’s like I can scatter business cards all over the Las Vegas Strip, and likely deal with a load of crap. But if I individually hand them out to prospective clients, I’d doubt I would. That’s why I say part of it needs to come thru filtering thru the websites. I still wonder how it would work if Rentmen were to charge each person $1 to text or call a number (because let’s face it, we’re already there because numbers can’t be shown in profiles). Maybe they can buy a “package” of 10 phone number allowances for $10. I can imagine that it would cut down the crap and up the seriousness drastically (Stuff I’ve already mentioned to them previously). But of course as I’ve said before, there’s still guys out there who are credit card shy and won’t pay...but that’s where Rentmen may have to get clever. Maybe sell it via Groupon lol (being Rentmen has rewarded me for my suggestions, I don’t mind sharing some free info with them). It’s funny how my number is shown in my a4a ad. I used to think I would be getting prank calls up the ASS by putting my number out in the open on adam. But nope, it’s not coming from there. Most is coming from Rentmen and RentMasseur...which leads me to believe there’s a quality control issue. They gotta stop these mother flakers at the gate. I can only do much screening and filtering, but if a client isn’t taking shit seriously because it’s so accessible to just text a bunch of escorts for free at random, something needs to goddamn change. People shouldn’t have so much access to us, to be contacting us, bullshitting and wasting time only to say, “I didn’t make an appointment”. Then why the fuck you calling me then? You don’t call an escort if you’re not booking an appointment. Then they got the nerve to say “it was just an inquiry”, despite texting me up asking if I bareback, this and that question, where I’m staying...and then they want to deny deny deny, when I put responsibility on their word.

Easier said than done. The catch is, I can’t afford to move there. I can only go to visit. And anything close to affordable would likely be either a basement unit or somewhere way, way outside of DC. Like Manassas or out in Maryland (which despite my getting familiar with/meeting new people and trying local food joints, and it being the more affordable part of the DMV I’m not particular eager to move to Maryland). Even if I’m getting steady clients, I don’t want to have to be hustling to pay $2,000 a month, because DC is known to be slow at times, and some of them folks out there just ain’t right. I had a dude I’ve known for a couple years now, stand me up for my birthday (but then met another guy who ended up coming thru), and one of my clients from Florida came up, only to be stood up by his family. Black folks aren’t always the most welcoming bunch towards one another, and DC is known as non other than “Chocolate City”. That’s why I only go to DC like once a year or so. I try not to overstay my welcome. Otherwise, I wouldn’t hesitate to move to DC. It felt like Miami last week, and by this time next month it’ll be cooling off.

Makes sense enough. At the same time, it’s def. not an overnight decision. It’s more of a transition. Of course I have good weeks and bad weeks too. I don’t want to give off the wrong impression that I’m not out here doing anything for myself. From the start of putting this post to now, I’m already in a better frame of mind. I think I wrote this thread in North Carolina (a state I will be very careful about planning visits again unless it’s a specific client). Since then, I’ve left and gone to 2 other states, reconnected with 2 previous clients, gained a couple new ones, and have a couple more on the way. I think it’s just really relative in the scheme of things. I can be in 1 city and be miserable because there’s either not enough business, and/or there’s a lot of time wasters (Kansas City for example), but then have a completely different outlook on life just by being in another city where I can actually keep clients coming back to back (Washington DC, Northern Virginia for example). Over my birthday earlier this month, I spent 4 days in a high rise hotel overlooking Georgetown, DC. I could never afford that in some cities I’ve been to and even lived at times. So it’s really all relative. Last week I was hating the business, this week I am happy to still be in it. Though I have to see how Labor Day weekend goes because 3 days holidays tend to bring out people who have too much damn time on their hands.

Thankyou for addressing him directly. I’ve been too busy to notice him talking smack behind my back, I’m just not even going to exhaust myself argue engaging in arguing with him. He can talk shit about me, and I can talk shit about him, and it’s just going to be a shit storm. I don’t have time to argue with people who are only going to dredge up the past, dilute the “message” by calling it negative/complaints, and simply want to be “politically correct” when it comes down to it. People will say whatever they want to say. Until they’re in the driver’s seat, it’s just talk. When I see JJ with an escort ad or 2, then I’ll listen to what he has to say. And I definitely don’t need anyone to “coax” me into staying. How many times have someone or 2 around here said I’m not cut out for the business or that I should leave? So I’m certainly not waiting around for someone to make a decision for me.

I’ll assume you’re addressing me on that tip...I’ll address that: It’s not so much a topic of leaving the business, it’s more of a topic of how much can a person deal with, before the work outweighs the reward. That I don’t mind putting into print, because it needs to be discussed regardless. I know there’s not so much can be done by just talking about it on here, and the real solution is going to have to come with either greater escort tolerance/screening or Rent guy platforms having a better filter on who contacts us. I have an interesting experiment I’ve done: I have business cards. Occasionally I’ll pass them out to random people (usually in an already gay atmosphere). But usually I only give them to clients as a “souvenir” or if I need to prove to a client on Grindr or Adam that I’m not just out here trying to make a quick ? Do you know that not 1 person who I’ve given my business card to, has contacted me to waste my time or bullshit me? Even people who may not want to use the service, and even the people who are interested in me. I could go around and pass out my business card to 10 guys, and most likely wouldn’t be concerned with them wasting my time or calling. I even used a separate number to track who called my biz card versus who called my online ads. Why is that? I believe people carry on the way they do on Rentmen because they know we can’t see who’s on the other end. They can see us, but we can’t see them...so in their mind, there’s no need for accountability on their end. That’s not saying how all clients view things, but more of general perspective of from how it is. So, it’s not about a lack of enthusiasm...it’s about the inconsideration on a daily basis, that can interfere with overall enthusiasm.

I don’t blame you. BUT... Don’t let the whole border “crisis” scare you for too long. We’re the land of the free...to do what you want behind closed doors. When push comes to shove, despite everything political that seems to be going on, people still doing what they want to do. Plus it’s just so much ground to cover. I travel 2 to 3 weeks out of the month, and there’s still several cities I’ve not been to in months and years. And remember, there’s Palm Springs, which is in the lovely state of Mexifornia...which is surrounded by CaliBama. But when you’re there, the atmosphere certainly isn’t political in the sense of things. If I were a tourist to the US, the only reason I wouldn’t want to come is because it’s so expensive for a night in a hotel everywhere. But seems like most tourists from overseas use air bnb to offset the high hotel costs.

Whoa...let’s not get ahead of ourselves lol. If Twitter were to go tomorrow, I would still be driving traffic via rentmen...which is ultimately where all traffic is coming from now. Every porn Star seems to be on Twitter, but I’d say a lot of your non-filming sex workers just aren’t on there. I’ve still not gotten a client DIRECTLY from Twitter, and one who reached out to me last weekend who my assistant found out he had a Twitter and posted actively, turned out to be a royal ? jerk. However, I do have clients who view my Twitter as an accessory. I’d also have to hear directly from a person themselves as to why they quit escorting. Even if I could make the same money or more just by doing only fans and not actually meet clients, I would still not give up escorting. I genuinely do like meeting clients in person, and I rather have someone give me $300 to actually suck my dick and actually let me lick their ass and fuck, than to get even $20/month to watch me on a film do someone else or myself. That’s not to say it’s not ever worth it, but just saying to trade it out for that...just seems a bit of a stretch for me. And that article also seems to allude that it’s not escorts who need to get into porn, but rather porn stars who are wanting to get up on what we’ve got going on. And that’s nothing new. But I can appreciate someone using both forms of sex work to market. I just don’t like this whole idea of, “I don’t have to be a prostitute, I can just have an only fans and escort remotely”. I would be bored.