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Simon Suraci's post in What level of restaurant and hotel do you go with providers? was marked as the answer
Agree. Bingo!
I’ve arranged reservations for my clients at high end restaurants because I know their taste, but also done the same to introduce them to some good modestly priced local eats that they never would have otherwise considered and they thanked me for bringing me there.
One of my overnight clients prefers no meals together, just a late night start time and an early morning departure. For him, I bring a few pastries and his favorite morning beverage: diet Dr Pepper. Not everyone’s cup of tea. Most would prefer coffee, but neither he nor I drink coffee. Personally I shudder at the thought of a diet soda beverage at any time, but especially first thing in the morning. But hey, he still wants caffeine, and this is what he likes. I know my clients well and I cater to them, however sophisticated or not-so-sophisticated their tastes and preferences may be.
There is no standard answer. A good escort adapts to his client’s preferences and places no judgment on him for selecting something modest or fancy. Clients pay us for our time. Time together over a meal (of any kind), is time well spent. Whether he tips or how much he tips has no bearing on what he is spending on dining. Our compensation is $, not food, beverages, gifts, or experiences. None of those pay our bills. $ does.
Clients - you don’t need to impress us. Nor be embarrassed about spending modestly on dining either. We are here for you, to be good company and give you an experience you won’t soon forget.
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Simon Suraci's post in So few reviews about trans men (or FTM) providers…? was marked as the answer
I’ve worked with a trans FTM provider in TX, and contacted several others on behalf of clients for a threesome but never met due to logistics/scheduling conflicts. They had reasonable rates, on par with cis providers in their respective markets. I was surprised they weren’t charging a premium because it can be so difficult to find a trans man offering services in many areas of the country. Los Angeles has more than most, but still not that many options. Only some providers responded to my inquiries, and all of those that did were promising.
True, interest in trans masculine providers is niche, thus why you will see less traffic here on topics like this one, but quite a few members here are interested in a range of trans men nevertheless. I’m in that group. I enjoy play with trans men, for work and personal.
As to the reviews, again, FTM providers are a small minority. Fewer clients are seeking them out. Some are newer providers and few or no reviews is par for the course for any newer provider. RentMen has created unnecessary barriers to writing reviews for all providers in recent years, which we’ve discussed ad nauseam elsewhere.
You can’t be so picky with FTM providers. I’d say if you have an interest in one, just go for it. Barring any common red flags, try hiring the one you like. You may have to travel to his city or pay for him to visit yours. That’s just the reality of hiring any provider that falls within a minority that will not be well represented everywhere. It takes extra effort and/or cost to do that for the right provider for you, but it is what it is. Or hire one of the few available in your area and be willing to let go of some of your preferences, or get over his lack of public reviews. Just the nature of the beast.
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Simon Suraci's post in Weekend Rate Revisted was marked as the answer
I do fewer long term hires, so I would weigh other client and provider responses more heavily. Here is how I structure my fees:
Escort Service
$1k (5) hours before midnight
$2k overnight service, 12 hrs +/-
$5k weekend / two days
$1k per additional day
$9k per week
Any necessary travel costs are reimbursable to me such as flights, long term parking, etc. The client pays for meals, entertainment, etc.
I do long term hires with clients I have seen before. I avoid booking long term hires with new clients, or otherwise require a deposit. I stand to lose a lot of short term business should the new client flake or cancel last minute.
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Simon Suraci's post in Masseurs, does it matter if you are licensed or not? was marked as the answer
In theory, yes. In practice, no.
There are many great reasons to be licensed in your jurisdiction. At a basic level, you have education and training qualifying you to practice massage professionally. That means you learned how to manually manipulate muscle tissue, fascia, and have a basic understanding of anatomy. I find value in education and training, but at the end of the day, you develop good skills, or you don’t. Book knowledge helps, but it can’t bestow skill. Practice hours only go so far.
Real clients paying real money are where the rubber meets the road. A license doesn’t guarantee the masseur you’re seeing has the skills or experience to deliver an excellent service. Plenty of unlicensed guys do an amazing job, and plenty of licensed guys are so-so, if not downright bad. And of course the opposite is true too. That’s why clients need to do their research.
It takes practical experience to succeed. You can get that through official means, or unofficial ones. I am still learning new things and brushing up on old things years into my career, and it’s not through schooling. It’s through trading massages, tips from my chiropractor, YouTube, and other free online resources. All of this knowledge, whether I learn it at a massage school or on my own, is only as useful as the level to which I apply it in my craft.
If having a valid license is important to a masseur for business, practical, or personal reasons, then it behooves him to protect and maintain that license by only providing therapeutic massage services conforming to his state and local requirements, like always using draping, never touching genitals, following cleaning and safety procedures, among other things. Some local jurisdictions, like mine, require massage therapists to be registered with law enforcement. That’s actually a negative, since it puts a target on your back!
A license you do not have is a license you cannot lose. Any consequences you may face like charges of prostitution apply whether you have a valid state license or not. We all assume some level of risk in this business, whether licensed, or unlicensed. Doing anything beyond therapeutic massage puts you at risk of losing a license, if you have one.
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Simon Suraci's post in Are Rentmasseur and Rent.Men connected for providers? was marked as the answer
Everything is separate. Different logins, monthly fees, travel date settings, etc.
I wouldn’t want them connected. I share slightly different content on each one, as the client base for each is different. Sometimes I might flag “available now” for massage but not for escorting, or visa-versa, for any number of reasons.
You wouldn’t want escort clients posting reviews on your massage ad, or massage clients posting reviews on your escort ad. It’s a whole can of worms. Keeping them separate gives us more flexibility and keeps everything targeted appropriately, which I think is more important than the convenience of updating both at once.
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Simon Suraci's post in Back to back bookings was marked as the answer
Yes, it should be obvious to program time between one appointment end time and the next appointment start time. Not factoring in this time is unprofessional provider behavior. I would be mortified if I made two clients pass one another on the way in/out. You need space for the unexpected. At least 30 minutes between clients. Say a client arrives 5-10 mins late and the next one arrives 5-10 mins early. That leaves you with barely 10 minutes to take care of all cleaning, communications, and rest. There’s no flexibility for chit chat, something taking longer than expected (like the client taking forever to cum!) or a technology delay when paying, or what have you.
If not for client comfort and discretion, do it for the sake of taking time to clean (yourself, your place), food/drink breaks, rest, and importantly, time to respond to texts that a true professional would not be paying any attention to during the last appointment. Sometimes you only have time to respond to a question and say “I’m starting my next appointment in 10 mins. If I miss your reply while I’m working, I’ll get back to you after I free up.” A lot of times the client texts 15 mins later but it’s ok because they know to expect a reply after you finish your current meeting.
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Simon Suraci's post in So I was fired as a client today was marked as the answer
Speculation about why is a fools errand. I would let it go and move on. It’s probably best you DON’T know why. At best, it doesn’t concern you, and not really your business. At worst, it could be something you’re better off not hearing.
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Simon Suraci's post in Masseurs that get rimmed was marked as the answer
I’m your man, right here. Based in SoCal. I advertise as a masseur and an escort and I am good at both. It’s not just one service lumped into the other as an afterthought as is so commonly the case.
As far as pricing goes, I would not mind the client rimming me, and I would not charge extra for it. I would, however, expect the client to communicate his needs when booking so that I can allocate adequate time beforehand to make sure I am fresh and ready to be rimmed. I would also expect the client to tip more generously because the service the client is asking for goes well above the call of duty for a masseur. There may be no penetration, but it’s still some level of escort service. Not everyone who hires escort service wants penetration, but that doesn’t mean it’s not escort service. Clients who don’t tip for going the extra mile I’m less inclined to go said mile the next time around.
I don’t distinguish my pricing between therapeutic and erotic since almost all my clients want and expect at least a minimal amount of erotic contact during their sessions. How far they want that erotic level to go is up to them. Regardless of the erotic elements, the client still gets a focused, therapeutic massage in a reasonable range of $150/hr. The rest is a value-added bonus.
The lines can get blurry at times, but I do draw some limits. I can’t offer oral and/or penetration to everyone for a regular massage fee. It’s simply unsustainable to operate this way. It might be other things like someone wanting a lot of spanking, fetish play, kissing, or what have you. There are no codified limits as to what the boundaries are.
When I sense the client wants and needs a lot more than I can provide for a massage fee, I suggest after the session is over that they book a combo massage / escort session, or an escort session the next time. That way I don’t need to hold back at all. We just go for it. Everyone is happy.
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Simon Suraci's post in for providers - the thing nobody talks about was marked as the answer
^This!!!
Here is my two cents in typical long form fashion.
Firstly, thank you @SouthOfTheBorder for posting this topic. Clients don’t want to talk or think about these things. So many people are immature when it comes to discussing sexual health. Our culture stigmatizes people for wanting - and having - sex. Our culture looks down on sex workers and treats us as scapegoats. We’re the “dirty” ones, the irresponsible, the depraved. But that’s just not true. If anything, professional sex workers are much more responsible and informed than the average person with regard to managing risks, maintaining good sexual health, communicating with their partners, and guarding their personal safety.
For every sketchy provider story I hear about on here, there are half a dozen experienced working men doing the right things and handling business professionally, not doing drugs or extorting people or behaving recklessly. The negative stories stick out more so we tend to focus on those. In between the horror stories are many good guys doing good work.
I’ll share the following because I know that many of you respect honesty and straight talk. A lot of providers don’t want to share this type of stuff openly because many clients are uneducated and carry around unfair biases and misinformation around sex and sexual health and use it to demonize us. The concern is clients will hold such information against us thinking “So-and-so had such and such last year. Ohhh better not hire him because I might catch the same thing”. It’s not fair because your average msm bareback hookup is going to be a much higher risk to you than hiring a professional. Hiring an experienced pro with a head on his shoulders is going to be relatively much safer for you than random sex in the wild. Clients on this platform are more educated than average on such matters, so perhaps I am preaching to the choir - still stigma persists no matter what we share or keep silent on. That’s why we don’t talk about this stuff very often. Also, it’s not sexy. But it’s important just the same.
Non-provider men similar to me have WAAAY more unprotected casual sex than I do, and they only get checked every three months (at best!). Most of them are on PreP and bareback exclusively. Doctors in the US require quarterly testing for patients receiving a PreP regimen, so that’s normal. Some of my peers are not on PreP and don’t know their HIV status, much less whether they are spreading STIs around because they are not testing on any regular basis - perhaps only if/when they experience symptoms (and not everyone experiences symptoms). Many straight-curious and bi men fall into this category, but any type can. If they test, it might be only once or twice a year. Your best case scenario outside of hiring is a conscientious gay guy getting tested every three months.
I test every month because of my work. Not because I have more sex than others, but because I care a great deal about my clients, my own health, and my ability to work. Monthly testing only leaves a small window for anything to happen and me not know about it. Keep in mind when you test, you are not clear as of that date you test. You are clear as of 10-14 days or so prior to the date you test, perhaps less. Incubation periods take time for the infection to show up on a test and to be communicable to others. Verify this info with your healthcare provider, as I am not your doctor. I merely bring up the point to clarify testing is not an up-to-the-minute snapshot of what is in your body - rather a snapshot of what has developed in your body (or not) over a period of time since your last exposure up to the time you test.
For example, I had a session last year for a client with multiple providers in which I had unprotected sex (bottom) with one of the providers. I topped the client and another provider in that session. As it so happened, I tested on my monthly schedule the following day. A couple days later I got the test results and all was negative. Little did I know one provider I was exposed to during that encounter passed an STI on to me. Given my activities in the weeks surrounding the encounter, I was able to confirm by process of elimination who it was and when. I topped clients, as I typically do, in the following weeks without knowing any of this, and thankfully did not expose any of them to an infection since the infection was rectal only. On my next test, I caught the issue and immediately alerted a few people who may have been exposed based on the activities with which we had recently engaged. It was only a two week or so window that I potentially passed it on and was yet unaware I had an infection. Since I have much fewer clients engaging me for bottom and/or bottom-adjacent activities, it was pretty easy to identify the few that may have been exposed in that short window. Since I test so frequently, I fortunately had the opportunity to give them all quick notice to get tested and/or treated before an infection had enough time to develop, express symptoms, and/or be passed on to anyone else. Here is a client response:
I love my regular clients. Most them are really good people.
Aside - the provider I got the infection from is married to another provider. Given they have frequent unprotected sex with one another and with all of their respective clients, the risks for them are necessarily higher than your average working guy. Keep this in mind when hiring a provider couple, or one of a pair of providers. Not to stigmatize, but to measure your risk.
I have a fraction of the sex of men similar to me, and it’s generally with people who a) are more conscious about the risks they are taking, b) have much less sex on average, and c) practice safer sex -maybe 10-20%.
Every provider is different. Some have more recreational sex, some have less. Some have riskier sex, some safer sex, perhaps some mix of both. I’d say that providers tend to have much less recreational sex than their peers, if not by intentional choice, than by the mere practical realities of being in this business. That’s me. One cannot be blowing loads recreationally right and left and expect to have any sexual energy left for his clients to enjoy.
Sex carries some risk no matter how much or little sex you have, be it protected or unprotected. Having sex exposes you to the possibility of contracting sexually transmitted infections, full stop. How much risk you are willing to tolerate is up to you. We have many other threads in the forums on how to mitigate risks, like oral vs anal, top vs bottom play, using condoms, vetting your guys, etc, so I won’t get into all those here. My point is you have to be responsible for your own health and assess your own personal level of risk tolerance.
For the married/attached guys out there regularly having sex with their significant other, it’s best to keep open communication with your partner/spouse about your hiring. I know many of you don’t share for various reasons, so you risk inadvertently passing an STI on to your partner, and that is a much more difficult conversation to have than discussing the boundaries of your relationship beforehand. I suppose, if you’re not having sex with your partner, you can manage your own sexual health without your partner needing to know anything about your hiring or hooking up habits. Assess and manage your personal level risk, and get tested regularly in proportion to that risk and treat infections promptly if/when they manifest. Simple as that. Better yet, if you’re able, get on PreP and follow the required testing regimen. I know many won’t for shared health record privacy concerns. Talk to your significant other. Sooner or later things will surface. One of my clients likes to bareback flip fuck and he regularly has sex with his wife. I am upfront with him about all of my sexual health and relative risks. He wants the sex anyway. Hey, to each his own.
This is our livelihood. It behooves us to stay healthy, obviously for our own sake, but also for the sake of our business. We can’t make money when we are recovering from a sexually transmitted infection. For masseurs like myself, I can’t offer escort service, but I can still massage, sans the extras I otherwise might offer during my recovery, nor can I offer combo massage / sex work service. It puts a damper on what I can earn in that 1-2 week period. For the full time escorts out there, they can’t earn a dime unless they are knowingly putting their clients at risk, which is not only problematic from an ethical and moral perspective, but also just doesn’t make business sense to do. We have too much to lose by damaging our reputations in this way.
So…in a sense, seeing a responsible, professional provider may actually carry, in many ways, less risk than having casual recreational sex with the average man who has sex with men. I don’t mean zero risk. Less risk.
I agree with much of the other posters on mitigating risk with visual checks, mouthwash, peeing after sex, washing, etc. Never a bad idea, but all of these are marginal at best in helping reduce your risk. If you have the sex at all, you already took on the risk. Very little in the form of after care will prevent you from getting STIs.
We sex workers take on this personal level of risk and manage that risk as best we can. That’s part of what you’re paying us for. Think like how much you pay an oil rigger vs a controlled environment factory line worker. One job is inherently more risky, so you compensate it more to account for that level of risk and damage control.
When your providers inform you that you may have been exposed to an STI, they are being responsible and doing the right thing. Please do not stigmatize them or punish them for doing their job or for taking on reasonable levels of risk that this job requires. Honor them and show them respect. Keep hiring us when we are well, because we are responsible and professional, and we care.
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Simon Suraci's post in How long do you wait for a provider to respond? was marked as the answer
To your point, every provider is different. Some prefer same day only because clients are less likely to flake. I don’t find this to be true.
Booking same day is a gamble. When he’s with a client, he can’t respond promptly, and maybe he can’t take a second or third client that same day anyway.
A few days notice should be fine for most. It gives time for the provider to finish with a client or whatever they are doing and get back to you same day or usually within 24 hrs. We have to plan our days to be realistic. Maybe two appointments per day spread out between morning and evening. It depends on what you need and how your guy works.
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Simon Suraci's post in Asking a client for a face pic. was marked as the answer
There’s no reason a masseur or escort needs your face or body photos. It’s a red flag that they’re probably cherry picking clients based on whatever preferences they have. I suggest clients pass and move on to the professionals with no hangups about how their clients look.
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Simon Suraci's post in Thoughts on the meeting location being an Airbnb? was marked as the answer
I chalk it up to paranoia. Hosts aren’t interested in guest activities unless the guests damage the property or violate the house rules. If something is damaged, the hosts don’t need it on video inside, just confirmation that a particular guest was in the unit to prove that the damage happened on the guest’s watch.
Lots of AirBnBs have cameras outside, near entries but not inside. One host in Houston noticed I had visitors coming and going and called it in. Since having visitors does not violate the rules, he couldn’t do anything. Only if I had unauthorized overnight guests would I have violated the rules. So the host made up a story about having a family emergency and asked me to leave, and refunded the balance of my stay. Sucks I had to cancel several days full of appointments and high tail it back to Dallas.
You can filter for AirBnBs that do not have any cameras. I do that now whenever possible. I also explicitly ask the hosts before booking if it’s ok to have visitors. I explain that it would not be for parties or loud gatherings, just 1-2 people for a couple hours or so. No problems since I started doing that. I rely on AirBnb, VRBO, and similar services to book my accommodations because it’s the only way I can get everything I need at the right price.
Most hotels do not have guest laundry facilities. Keep that in mind the next time you visit a masseur in a hotel and ask consider how many massages have taken place on the sheets you’re laying on. AirBnBs give me access to the amenities I need to provide a good client experience, like parking, nice neighborhood, an uncramped space to set up a table, and laundry. It’s usually less than hotel prices too, which make it worthwhile for me to do the trip.
Hotels are not immune from peeping toms either. Anyone see that Netflix true crime doc about the hotel owner who watched his guests for years in the attic vents? Consider your level of risk tolerance and proceed accordingly. The vast majority of accommodations will not have cameras spying on guests inside the unit. You’re more likely to be filmed without your knowledge by a masseur, escort, or psychopath hookup in any location than an AirBnB.
Netflix's intensely creepy documentary Voyeur will scare you away from motels forever
WWW.RADIOTIMES.COM Journalist Gay Talese uncovers the nefarious tale of a crafty peeping tom
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Simon Suraci's post in Providers, how do you get laid outside of client relationships? was marked as the answer
My personal sex life is a casualty of being in this biz. It’s one of the tough costs of doing this work that clients fortunately don’t have to think about. The question for me is not how, but if I do it at all.
Oftentimes I lack desire for sexual intimacy outside work for a number of reasons:
1) At any given time, I’m emotionally and sexually spent, and can’t do any more if I wanted to. I would have to do double duty work of advocating for my own needs in addition to (yet again) focusing on others’ needs in order attract their interest and commitment to meet. I don’t hire, but I see the appeal. I’d rather have someone focus on my needs and not their own for a change.
2) Opportunity costs. I’m concerned that wasting my mojo on something unpaid may affect my ability to provide a stellar experience for the next client. That next client may only be willing to request a same day appointment. I have to be ready, or prepared to miss out on that income I need to make my life work.
3) there’s the psychological mind fuck dynamic of: “I could be getting paid $XXX for this right now and I’m giving it away for free.” Almost like volunteering your professional skills and time for an uncharitable cause. My personal fulfillment in the experience has to exceed that psychological barrier by so much that I can let it go and actually enjoy myself. That’s a tall order, at least for me.
4) I have no time, patience, or energy for it. I could spend weeks on apps and never get anywhere. Lots of frogs out there. I know because I use apps for work and man, it’s pretty bleak. What little time left I have outside work is better spent on other things.
5) Clients are all over the apps. It would be a nightmare trying to manage who’s blocked, who’s a client, who’s a potential client that I just don’t know yet. People know what I do and want to hire me or talk about work on the app, or spend chat time comparing hiring with hookups as if they are exactly the same thing. Boring. Then there’s worrying about presenting yourself the wrong way and losing clients because of it…it’s all just too much to manage.
6) STIs. The fewer encounters I have, the less likely I will be to contract or transmit an STI. I constantly consider my clients and want them to feel comfortable that I’m not being unnecessarily reckless. I have way less sex compared to many of my non-provider peers, even though this is my job. My clients, on average, aren’t having that much multiple partner sex either, but it varies. When I’m out of commission due to recovery time from clearing an STI, that’s lost income. So yeah, it’s a cost to consider, and one I want to minimize.
7) Few people are worth my time.
😎 I have a partner. His needs come first after work obligations. Recreational activity is necessarily limited to the periods we decide we’re open. So…the preceding points notwithstanding, it ain’t gonna happen when we’re not open anyway!
9) Considering all the above, the planets will sooner align before I get some off the clock.
So my answer is: I just don’t. The deck is stacked, at least for me. Then again I’m sure other providers don’t put as much thought into all this as I do, and they’re probably better for it.
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Simon Suraci's post in 2 Hour Session Structure? was marked as the answer
Your experience is common. Escort service is by the hour (or portion thereof). Masseurs charge by half hour because it’s intense, skilled, focused physical work versus a conversation and cuddle lasting 15 mins longer or shorter. That’s not to say I think an escort appointment going over by 5 mins merits charging a full extra hour, but we work to the client’s satisfaction. I take cues from the client. When he’s satisfied and ready to leave, all good. If he wants the full time, it’s also perfectly good. When things start to drift much beyond the scheduled time, I gently signal that it’s either time to wrap up, or offer to extend the session if I have availability to extend.
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Simon Suraci's post in Curious…record keeping was marked as the answer
Like @Jamie21 I’m one of the few more organized and detail oriented of the bunch. Data is my friend. Doesn’t sound at all like an architect, does it?
My appointment system is also a CRM tool and it keeps track of what a client booked, when, how much they paid including tip, and how it changes over time. I can track trends in time of day, week, month, and year. I also keep a spreadsheet of client and appointment data to check against my system and visa-versa. That tracks which payment method they used and what the transaction fees were, if any. That’s particularly helpful for taxes and reconciling my books.
I keep detailed records of client interactions, preferences, conversation topics, and the like to remember things that will help me serve them better and continue conversations even after months have passed. You name it, I collect and maintain data to support my decisions and improve my business.
February and August are my slowest months. February it’s definitely weather plus holiday season credit card bills coming due. Also it’s a slightly shorter month to begin with. August it’s mainly people traveling, but also weather (hot). Some of those travelers are coming to me from elsewhere but the volume is less than the dip in clients who would normally see me that month and are elsewhere.
Friday nights tend to be slower, on average, while Friday afternoons tend to stay booked, especially with same day requests. Weekdays during the day are popular. Sundays and especially Sunday nights are quite popular. Saturday mornings are popular too. Saturday nights are variable, it tends to be more of a certain type of client - typically older single men, often for longer appointments. It’s all variable and there’s no hard rule, just some trends that have emerged over time.
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Simon Suraci's post in Companionship hire was marked as the answer
For non-sexual companionship services, I charge something more than my massage rates but less than my full service rates. Not by much, but a bit less. I do so because it takes effort and focused attention, but in a different way. Arguably it’s much more engaging and challenging than the small talk I have with a typical client at the beginning of a massage. The client wants my intellect and wants me to look good, perhaps touch me, and for me to engage them in every way but sex. That takes a high level of effort and personal connection.
The companionship client typically wants more than an hour of my time, so it makes sense to do it. For full service, I charge $300/hr or $500/two hours. I charge $225/hr for à la carte companionship services. If the client wants two hours of companionship, that’s $450. Not much less than if they hired me for full service for two hours ($500). The companionship client may be less common than the full service client, but they are not paying that much differently.
More commonly clients are interested in an escort session and/or boyfriend experience, depending on the terms you prefer. These typically include time in the bedroom, and time outside the bedroom. See recent thread on “BFE”. I charge $1000 for up to (5) hours of escort service. The sexual part is typically up to couple hours and the rest is up to the client to decide what non-sexual activities they most enjoy while spending time with me. My long escort sessions work out to $200/hr, which is a pretty good deal for clients interested in both the sex AND the rest of the experience…which could look very much like the non-sexual companionship service I normally charge $225 for.
I suppose it all depends on the client’s sensibilities, budget, and priorities, but the longer the session, the easier it is for me to justify a lower rate. Example: I can do (1) five hr session for $1k, or (3) one hour full service sessions for $900. Realistically I probably can’t deliver on three clients a day for the latter, so the former makes a lot more business sense, even though the per-hour pay rate is lower.
Another consideration is that the typical client who books a five hour escort session is far more likely to cancel, and more often than not in less than 24 hrs of their start time. That’s frustrating. On paper it makes business sense, but in reality it’s all a total crapshoot.
My approach is I’m getting paid decently no matter what service I’m providing, so it matters a lot less exactly what I’m doing. Even some massage clients regularly spend $300 or more. The difference there is that I’m spending more time with the massage clients for the same money as I would make providing the other services over a shorter time. It’s easier for me to take multiple massage clients a day. It’s much more difficult for me to have multiple escort and/or sex work clients per day.
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Simon Suraci's post in Is it a known risk to schedule for an hour? was marked as the answer
This happens to me too. A client texted me today to schedule a shorter, lower cost session right in the middle of a big block of availability where I could otherwise schedule two longer, higher value sessions.
I honored the shorter session because he booked first. I give priority to those who book ahead, or whoever books first. I keep my word after I book them. In this case I had to turn down two higher session value clients because the resulting two blocks of time were each too short to fulfill either of the higher fee session requests.
Then….the low value client no shows. No cancellation message, nothing, just ghosts. So now I’m out of the lower value fee AND the two higher value fees. Frustrating. Sometimes this happens, especially with new clients, and I accept that. I don’t let it bother me anymore.
If I had canceled on the low value client to accommodate the two higher value clients, the two higher value clients may have canceled or no-showed as well. You never know with new clients what they are going to do. You can’t win, and there’s no way to game the system. Some clients are real jerks sometimes and there’s no escaping that. I honor my first booked, first priority policy because it’s the only objective, low stress way to handle these matters. It also rewards and encourages clients booking ahead, which I prefer anyway.
This is the reason a lot of providers behave the way they do. I’m not saying it’s right, but our schedules are constantly changing. It feels like we’re reacting to a dozen things out of our control and trying to make the best of all the moving parts each hour of the day as it changes. And we’re trying to make good money and use our time most effectively.
The occasional unusual circumstance outside of my control pops up requiring me to cancel or reschedule on a client, but I never cancel because I got a “better offer”. Unusual circumstances are things like my whole building fire alarm is sounding.
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Simon Suraci's post in Client Etiquette: Don’t ask how much, and then say it’s too much… was marked as the answer
For providers, I disagree, the metrics do exist. Not on a stock exchange ticker, but it’s knowable with even a cursory amount of research.
Experienced clients have a good sense for what providers in their area are charging. Asking half a dozen to a dozen providers will give you a good sense of going rates. If you’ve hired occasionally in a certain city/region for a year or more, you will most certainly have this knowledge. Also, you can quickly gauge on the websites that list rates (not on RentMen, we beat that dead horse) and compare those numbers to the providers you contact.
Here on COM is a good place to ask around too. The baseline for rates is pretty easy to gauge, even if you’re starting from scratch with no experience hiring. I have to imagine with all the texts I get asking for rates that the knowledge goes somewhere in potential clients’ minds to compare with others they are texting.
I discuss rates with provider friends and collaborators, so I have a good idea of what they are quoting their clients. For instance, in the Dallas/Ft Worth metro area, for one hour of full service, it runs $250 on the lower end to $300 average, and $400+++ on the high end for outliers, well known porn stars, the delusional, the fewer client strategy types, and such. You can find lower and higher numbers than these of course, but they are the minority. The baseline in my area is $300.
I can’t imagine this baseline is going to be wildly different in other cities and regions because many providers frequently tour across the country, but I know it varies from place to place and over time. I recognize many factors affect pricing and don’t mean to oversimplify, but a baseline ballpark is not that crazy or difficult to identify.
Someone who can afford $250 can afford $350. It’s just a matter of who is the right provider for you within the baseline range, and do you feel like an experience with them offers a good value for you in light of the price. That’s what baffles me sometimes when a client is obsessed with pricing. The more important issue is if you’re going to drop a few hundred dollars on an experience with anyone remotely close to the baseline, it should be with the right provider, not the cheapest, or the one you like who happens to be $25 or $50 less than the other one you like. It’s basically the same at that point. Tipping decisions alone make those a trivial pricing comparison.
Tying back to the OP question…the baseline is known (or easily knowable with the smallest bit of research) and that’s why it’s annoying when clients ask our rates and say it’s too expensive…because we know what our peers charge and it’s not that different from our own prices. It’s like the client is saying “escorts” are too expensive for me (which is their problem), and instead framing it as “you” are too expensive for me (implying it’s the provider’s problem).
To your point, the overall economy certainly plays a role. I will leave the impending recession discussion for the finances section. Not all agree that.
In recessions, luxury goods and services remain in demand because people with money are less affected. They still want their spa treatments, vacations, and they’re still horny AF. If anything, recessions are exactly the time one most wants to escape reality, if only temporarily, even when you can’t really afford it. More so for those that still can.
Regarding my analogy to the construction industry, those metrics do exist and are known to both parties. Construction project costs are well documented by project type, location, and year started/completed. These are the baseline for pricing proposed projects and submitting bids. Prices of course vary from the baseline when considering all manner of factors, but the baseline for a comparable project is known.
One might consider the concept is like comparable properties or “comps” in the real estate industry, at least for establishing a baseline. If only “offers over asking” were a thing in this industry 😂 That, and financing 🤣
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Simon Suraci's post in Masseurfinder weekly specials was marked as the answer
Get creative. For example, add a Valentine’s Day couples special, a referral discount, finals week special for students, spring break special, free add on services with a massage like hot stone or body scrub, two for one when you book x days ahead, cash discount, discount if you book online, $XX off before noon, specify “x” discount for NEW clients, $30 of for 30 somethings, emergency worker discount, teacher appreciation, other professions, etc. Creativity is key.
You don’t need to add a special every single week of the year, and it need not be broadly applicable to everyone every single week like 20% off (for every Tom Dick and Harry). If you have half the weeks of the year covered or more, you’re doing pretty good. I would have to raise prices if I consistently offered 20% off to every client over the whole year. Weekly specials are one of many ranking boost items to consider. If you have specials at all, and they are different over the course of a year, that’s what matters to the algorithm.
Be strategic. You wouldn’t want to offer a special when you know you have limited availability, or going on a trip, or whatever. If traveling to a different city, clients will book you regardless. I like to save my specials for when I can attract the most new clients that I otherwise wouldn’t, and have the availability to actually fulfill lots of new appointment requests.
It doesn’t really matter. One or two masseurs stay at the top for six months or so at a time by changing their photos every five seconds, maintaining every single new weekly special, re-writing their ad every month, logging in and flagging availability constantly, and so on. It’s exhausting. I don’t have time for all that, at least not for every single action every single week of the year. I’m busy working, so I’m not that the very top. Even when I actively try to get better rankings for a stretch of time, it only bumps me slightly.
I still get plenty of business. I find that the guys doing all the things to stay on the very top of the list don’t last long. They generally aren’t very good in my experience. That’s why they stay that the top for six months or so and then drop off completely. You have to be good to be successful, no matter your ad placement.
If you can update your ad and photos every six months or less, schedule a few creative weekly specials from time to time, and log in whenever possible, you’ll be fine. You won’t be at the very top, but you don’t have to be to get business. Most clients scroll and click your ad based on your looks, If they like your ad content, they reach out.
New and good photos are the #1 way to boost your ranking. Spread them out over a period to fit the algorithm preference for fresh photos. They can even be from the same photo session if they fit the strict criteria. Professional photos are expensive. It can cost $500-$1k every time I hire my photographer for a session and pay for shots I like and will use. I aim to do this every six months. Worth every penny because we thrive on good, current photos.