Simon Suraci

7 hours ago, NYXboy said:

this forum has really opened my eyes to what providers have to deal with. I feel sorry for you. 

This forum has opened my eyes to what clients have to deal with. I feel for you guys. Loss aversion is much more powerful psychologically than many positive and fulfilling sessions.

Some may be scammers, many others are legit. I’m sorry many of you have had bad experiences, but it’s unfair to use language like always, never, or yes/no binaries. You have every right to be cautious and you don’t have to pay deposits if you’re uncomfortable doing so. By all means, move on to providers who do not require a deposit, but I would not expect every provider to risk their scarce resources for every client, every time. 

There will always be a need for popular and busy providers to allocate scarce resources. It’s economics. When demand is high, willingness to take on unvetted and flaky clients is low. When the reverse is true, willingness is high. Deposits, among other strategies, are a means for providers to allocate their scarce resources more efficiently. Better to lose a couple would-be good clients than take on many more would-be bad ones.

On both sides of the discussion, each party is experiencing majority negative of the other. i.e. 9/10 clients are flakes, or 9/10 providers are scammers. All the more reason to rely on recommendations from others you trust.

I’m so glad company of men exists. It helps establish who’s good, who’s reliable, real, and worth your time and money. We focus on the negative so much, on what we have to lose by taking on a client or hiring a provider. If you’re concerned about hiring someone new, seek out providers with a good reputation, either through forums here, or elsewhere online or IRL. Find the good ones and hire them. When you have a positive experience, keep hiring them. It’s win-win. Some of my best clients are regulars. With mutual trust and respect, both parties are very happy.

Variety is nice, I get it. Sometimes reliability and trust is a much more fulfilling route. Treat one another well. 

 

7 hours ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Men4Rentnow I believe was where it began.

Though I never understood Men4sex now? Was it supposed to be a free hookup app? 

That said: I noticed a situation not long ago where it seemed like 2 clients met each other on one of the sites. Not trying to say it’s the worst thing but: can anyone attest to “clients” having inadvertently finding and hooking up with each other instead of booking a provider? lol.

Here is an old post discussing Men4RentNow. I’ve never heard of it. 

 

3 hours ago, mds1 said:

@Simon Suraci, do you have any thoughts on how much these providers who do ask for a deposit should or would be asking? Would most feel like a small amount would be adequate to prove seriousness, or do they feel like at least half or more is better for a deposit? 

It varies per provider and type of service. I’m a massage therapist, so most situations would never require a deposit. On occasion, I require a deposit for particularly long appointments, travel outside my normal range, or if the appointment requires coordination with other providers like a 4-hand massage, or other specific/unusual requests. The more I have to lose if the client flakes, the more inclined I am to ask for a deposit.

If you are hiring an escort, or a massage provider for escort services, the stakes and costs are higher, so I would expect more escorts to require some sort of deposit. I can’t speak for every provider, but I would never pay more than half up front. I think 20% is perfectly reasonable. Even $50 is fine. It’s a gesture to motivate you to follow through and to demonstrate (through action, not just words) that you are serious and worth the provider’s time.

As always, use your best judgement. I acknowledge that scams are very much a real thing and you have to watch for warning signs. If something doesn’t feel right, it probably isn’t. We’re on the side of caution. However, I would not be afraid to send a nominal deposit for a reputable provider. That usually means they are popular, which means they have more reason to charge a deposit.

If you’re asking for something that takes a lot of time, travel, preparation, or coordination, I would expect your provider is more likely to require a deposit.

The flakers motivate providers to require deposits, or otherwise be guarded with their time or vet who they book. Deposits are one way (not the only way) to filter up the serious clients. We need some way to identify the serious people, otherwise we waste a lot more of our time and don’t earn a living.

To make a living, we have to keep busy, so it behooves us to fill our time with serious, trustworthy clients. When you are a popular provider, you have the luxury of choosing the more serious client over the less serious client.

You may be a great client. Fine. Demonstrating in one way or another that you are a good client is another story entirely. Something as simple as booking your second preference for a time slot versus your first preference is a free and easy way to demonstrate you are serious and a good client.

When a provider is busy and suggests booking another day or time, do so. Don’t just throw in the towel (and a tantrum) because a provider wasn’t available the moment you texted for an immediate appointment, or for the specific time you requested. This happens to me all the time, and I make an effort to work with their schedule.

The client frequently makes no effort to work with mine. The message I get from clients is that they expect me to be dedicated, on-call, only available to them, at a moments notice, and that they will not hire me if I am not. That’s not true of course, but that’s how bad clients treat me. I say good riddance because I have lots of good quality clients filling my time.

Men on this forum generally aren’t the ones flaking. It’s the other 9/10 clients that are not on the forum behaving disrespectfully, and that gives us legitimate reason to do things like require a deposit or vet a client through a verification app. I avoid requiring deposits, but for some, it’s one of the few ways to meaningfully weed through a sea of flaky, disrespectful people.

It’s more efficient for the client to contact the providers he’s interested in hiring. Ask about the specifics you want and let the provider confirm yes or no.

Posting as a client to something like doublelist yields a bunch of providers who you may or may not be interested in, and who may or may not actually be the best fit for your needs. It would also bring in interest from quite a few people who are not professionals, just people who want a free mutual interest hookup. It’s a lot of wasted time for all those people to read and respond, and for you to read and respond (or ignore). It’s also rife for scams, as if we don’t have enough of that on the proper platforms.

 I recommend going directly to the source, using purpose built platforms and messaging directly to inquire about your needs. You weed through a lot of nonsense that way, for you, and for the provider.

MF has the worst reviews process. It’s basically set up to be a barrier for clients to leave reviews.

You can email the masseur a review to their personal email and we can post on your behalf. I block the site based email function. It’s too much of a hassle for the client and for me.

I direct my clients to my booking website (Booksy) because it has the greatest number of reviews and clients review me directly on the platform, unsolicited.

Get creative. For example, add a Valentine’s Day couples special, a referral discount, finals week special for students, spring break special, free add on services with a massage like hot stone or body scrub, two for one when you book x days ahead, cash discount, discount if you book online, $XX off before noon, specify “x” discount for NEW clients, $30 of for 30 somethings, emergency worker discount, teacher appreciation, other professions, etc. Creativity is key.

You don’t need to add a special every single week of the year, and it need not be broadly applicable to everyone every single week like 20% off (for every Tom Dick and Harry). If you have half the weeks of the year covered or more, you’re doing pretty good. I would have to raise prices if I consistently offered 20% off to every client over the whole year. Weekly specials are one of many ranking boost items to consider. If you have specials at all, and they are different over the course of a year, that’s what matters to the algorithm.

Be strategic. You wouldn’t want to offer a special when you know you have limited availability, or going on a trip, or whatever. If traveling to a different city, clients will book you regardless. I like to save my specials for when I can attract the most new clients that I otherwise wouldn’t, and have the availability to actually fulfill lots of new appointment requests.

It doesn’t really matter. One or two masseurs stay at the top for six months or so at a time by changing their photos every five seconds, maintaining every single new weekly special, re-writing their ad every month, logging in and flagging availability constantly, and so on. It’s exhausting. I don’t have time for all that, at least not for every single action every single week of the year. I’m busy working, so I’m not that the very top. Even when I actively try to get better rankings for a stretch of time, it only bumps me slightly.

I still get plenty of business. I find that the guys doing all the things to stay on the very top of the list don’t last long. They generally aren’t very good in my experience. That’s why they stay that the top for six months or so and then drop off completely. You have to be good to be successful, no matter your ad placement.

If you can update your ad and photos every six months or less, schedule a few creative weekly specials from time to time, and log in whenever possible, you’ll be fine. You won’t be at the very top, but you don’t have to be to get business. Most clients scroll and click your ad based on your looks, If they like your ad content, they reach out.

New and good photos are the #1 way to boost your ranking. Spread them out over a period to fit the algorithm preference for fresh photos. They can even be from the same photo session if they fit the strict criteria. Professional photos are expensive. It can cost $500-$1k every time I hire my photographer for a session and pay for shots I like and will use. I aim to do this every six months. Worth every penny because we thrive on good, current photos.

For RentMasseur, most providers offer more than massage, but some do not. That may be what the provider is communicating when they post only a massage table to the private gallery. In that case, respect that not everyone offers exactly what you want. Don’t get upset, just move on. If the goodies aren’t for sale, that might be why they aren’t on display. If in doubt, you can always ask.

Also, RentMasseur doesn’t let you post a room pic or table pic on its own. They only let you post pics of yourself, so if you want to show off your space and you haven’t had a friend or photographer snap a shot of you in the room, you’re out of luck. I highly recommend hiring a professional photographer for all shots, including those with a table, room, etc.

Clients like to see the massage space. Or for escorts, possibly their apartment, house interior, or other locations. That’s why we post pics like that. So many clients have bad things to say about a provider having a dirty, unkempt, small, or otherwise inappropriate space. Space pics help put these legitimate concerns to rest.

When basic members request to view my private gallery, I attach them to my reply message. There is no way for me to manually unlock the private gallery for basic members, only to attach. I share freely when someone asks.

I disagree with the point about providers  being “unprofessional” when they reach out to a client after the client views their private gallery. Others on this site have commented they liked that a provider made the first contact and that it made the provider feel more approachable.

I reach out with a very brief friendly message, kind of like browsing in a store and a sales person greets you and says “let me know if I can help you with anything”. That’s not unprofessional. However, I don’t recommend being the pushy salesperson, so I keep it very light and brief.

RentMasseur suggests providers reach out when someone views your gallery. That’s how the site is designed to work. I wouldn’t knock a provider for using the ad website the way it’s designed.

I get a lot of business from making the first contact. Not everyone likes that, and that’s fine. You can choose to ignore the message, you don’t have to reply. It’s just the provider giving potential clients the sense that they are here and available, checking their messages, and want your business. That’s not a bad thing! 

I have no interest in feet, either the client’s feet or attention to mine. However, I get many requests for pictures of my feet, shoe size, and the like. Foot fetishes are pretty common.

More than once I’ve considered posting feet pics in my private gallery, even though that’s not the focus of my services, if only to reduce the number of odd photo requests. I suspect that’s why you’re seeing so many feet pics in profiles. Especially for escorts.

If a client needs to see my feet for me to give them a massage, I have concerns. At the same time, if my feet gets them in the door, they receive an excellent massage and return again and again for my massage skills even if feet weren’t part of the session at all. In that sense, I consider feet photos strategic marketing. 

The same thing happens all the time with sexier photos in general. People like my look and hire me based on that, but then discover I actually have great massage skills and like me as a person and then come back regularly for excellent service.

Btw, I ask if clients want their feet massaged during a two hour session. I never do feet for a one hour session (not enough time), and very infrequently for a 90 minute session. Primarily because feet take a lot of effort and take a greater toll on my hands. Secondarily because feet take time away from other parts of the body that some may appreciate the work on more.

Not everyone appreciates the work on their feet because they are neutral or don’t like them massaged at all. The few people that particularly enjoy having their feet massaged are ecstatic about my work, so I save my hands and energy for their appreciation.

Hiring a straight guy is part of the fantasy for some clients. I suppose it doesn’t matter if the providers actually are straight (by whatever definition you want to apply). The point is you’re indulging a fantasy, and that’s about you - not them. If they can fulfill that fantasy for you, does anything else really matter?

It’s like watching a movie, or even porn. Suspend your disbelief for the sake of enjoying the content. I don’t believe Meryl Streep is the devil in heels in real life when she goes home. Nor do I believe those guys in porn are actually stepbrothers.

Getting the most out of hiring a self-identified (read: self-marketed) “straight” man is your responsibility, not theirs. If your provider can be what you want them to be for the time you’re hiring them, it shouldn’t really matter how they identify inside their head apart from work.

You’re paying for fantasy, their time, body, and services. You’re NOT paying them to live their life in a certain way, or think certain thoughts, or feel certain emotions directed at certain people, or to agree with your definitions of human sexuality. 

In my humble opinion, the only person limiting their own enjoyment of a straight provider is the client.

I only require deposits for certain situations. For example, a client requested I coordinate two other providers for a multi hour session. We all had to travel over half an hour, and I had to bring a table. I was in daily communication with the client for about a week. I had the other providers lined up, got everything ready, even purchased a specialty item that the client requested for his session. Then the day of, he ghosts. Not a peep. Just disappeared.

By this point, I’ve invested hours. That’s when I decided I’m only doing complicated setups, long sessions, long travel, multiple provider coordination, etc with a deposit. The more I have to lose in terms of prep time, loss of credibility with my collaborators, schedule blocking out other would-be clients, and so on, the more inclined I am to require a deposit.

For a normal uncomplicated session, especially incall, I never require deposits. Even for the complicated sessions, I don’t require deposits after the first successful session. Once I know a client is real and follows through, I trust them and don’t need a deposit.

Deposits are an insurance policy. They need not be huge amounts, but should be something a client will think twice about before flaking. The deposit covers my time, often a hour or more worth when they do choose to flake. Even with a considerable deposit, they still do flake from time to time. 

If you’re asking for a lot, I would not be shocked if a provider requests a nominal deposit. We waste sooo much time on flaky clients. Maybe you personally don’t flake. Great. That doesn’t change the fact that a LOT of others do. That’s why many providers require deposits. Especially for the first meeting. 

The IRS requires you to report holdings in cryptocurrencies. You can lie about your crypto holdings, but the government can easily find out what you hold once you are being audited, or if law enforcement has a warrant. They may not get you this tax year, or even next, but they will eventually. If you’re flagged for any reason, the IRS can track it down and penalize you for not reporting or paying taxes.

The block chain is only quasi anonymous at best, when nobody is investigating you. When you are a person of interest, your transactions are as public as a street sign, and your actions are recorded longer and clearer than any traffic cam. Those transactions can be linked back to you. A street sign you can destroy, deface, or steal. You can’t erase or obscure the digital ledger.

Cash is king.

I agree with most responses. I don’t particularly value a 4-hand massage for myself. It’s not worth the money. It can be distracting or less relaxing at best. I have a hard enough time not criticizing in my head during a 2-hand massage, much less a 4-hand.

My clients, on the other hand, love it. Some say they enjoy an asymmetrical approach because they like not knowing what is going to happen next, and enjoy the feeling of simultaneous differing sensations and muscle manipulation along different parts of the body. You get twice the work done.

To each their own. Every client is different. I recommend masseurs work together with people they know and trust for 4-hand sessions. Does not have to be a partner or lover. Even better when your styles are similar and you talk about how to coordinate the work beforehand. Styles can be different and still successful as long as you coordinate who does what when and make sure it makes sense.

If kissing is important to you, be sure to ask your provider if kissing is ok, ideally beforehand or otherwise in the session. When the answer is no, please respect that and try not take it personally. It’s always a bit awkward to the provider for a client to initiate a kiss on the table and not have consented to it. Some providers kiss, some do not. Some providers do for a higher fee, perhaps with other offerings. The last time you want to discuss fees is in the middle of the session when you’re trying to relax and enjoy your time.

On 12/30/2022 at 9:02 PM, superben said:

I would take this post seriously if escorts actually provided their clients with a receipt or an invoice for monetary transactions at the end of each session and paid taxes on their income like everyone else does. 99% of escorts don't even disclose their real names LOL. So what kind of freakin' income are we talking about here?! To me the "income" that you are referring to is nothing but extra cash that an escort can make through a private, confidential and verbal agreement with another consenting adult, and it is an agreement that often requires a certain flexibility because it is not regulated by anything, it is exclusively based on some sort of honor system. If an escort feels insulted by a client's request for a discount or a different rate, then they should apply for a regular job at a Spa, a hotel or a massage center, where they don't have to worry about negotiating prices and all they have to do is massage their clients for $30 an hour plus taxes without even having to take off their shorts. How does that sound for a reality check? You can't expect to make between $200 and $300 an hour in cash with a job exclusively based on the honor system, not pay a single penny in taxes and think that you're not going to deal with situations during which you have to negotiate with your clients.

Many escorts that I had the pleasure to meet have always been very honest and actually humble enough to realize that. The ones that act as if their shit doesn't stink have always been a big no for me. Especially the ones that ramble about how professional they are or how valuable their time is, in my personal experience they have always proven to be the most unprofessional and awful providers.

I can’t speak for others, but I pay taxes on my income, even cash. It behooves me to prove income for credit reasons. Buying a house, etc. For digital payments, I should note, there is no way of getting around reporting.

On 2/23/2023 at 11:56 AM, CuriousByNature said:

I'm surprised by these figures - I would have expected it to be significantly more for some and much less for MasseurFinder.

I agree. MasseurFinder is waaay overpriced, and RentMasseur basic without the upgraded services is quite affordable.

Some of my best clients find me through MasseurFinder, but they are relatively few. I keep it for the quality over quantity consideration.

I get a lot more traffic on RentMasseur, and more total clients that way, but it’s a mixed bag. Some good, some excellent, and some of them are not the greatest types of clients. And by that I mean flaky, disrespectful, rude, pushy, don’t read the ad, don’t tip, try to “bargain” for a low rate, arrive unclean, etc.

Rent Men is a little different for me. Since I offer massage and spa services instead of traditional escort services like overnights and whatnot, I’m pretty sure I get a lot less traffic and bookings than I otherwise would. However, Rent Men is set up to advertise masseurs too, and I do get clients interested in my services, enough to justify an additional relatively low monthly platform cost. 

Here’s what I pay:

RentMen: $30/mo 

RentMasseur: $40/mo 

MasseurFinder: $105/mo 

Booksy (my own site): $33/mo

I tap out at ~$200/mo. 

MintBoys: free, no upgrade. They accept bitcoin payments exclusively, which I don’t have and am not willing to use. If they accepted credit cards I would try it out.

Others I might try a month trial to see if it’s worth it.

Any suggestions or preferences for what clients like to use more?

It’s a business, not a dating service. I never reject a client based on age, weight, or looks. If they’re paying, they’re welcome. If I only hired under 40 clients, I would never be able to support myself. Providers with lots of client qualification hangups do not last long in the biz. They are not worth your $. Hire respectful providers. When they aren’t respectful toward you, move on.

Tip for anyone, really. Never explain the reason for rejecting someone online whether for work or personal. There is no positive outcome for them or for you to do so.

Don’t play games on hookup apps. It’s one thing to have communication on Rent Men, Rent Masseur, etc. Outside of those purpose built platforms, it just wastes your time and theirs to go fish. Don’t spoil it. Get what you want. Just hire.

I send such messages from time to time to clients who hire me regularly. For instance to couples ahead of Valentine’s Day telling them about a special offer. I’m not a great marketer in the traditional sense, but I do a bit of this type of communication. I’m selective and keep it minimal so as not to overwhelm or annoy.

Absolutely. I hire other massage therapists for a couple reasons: therapeutic massage and market research.

I like to know who is providing what so I can invest in my own development and stay competitive. I can’t and won’t give exactly the same massage as someone else, but it really helps to understand my competitors’ work and helps me give informed recommendations for those who may fit better with another provider. Sometimes it’s nice to offer an alternate for when I’m unavailable during the time a client requests.

In addition to my chiropractor appointments, I need regular therapeutic work since my job is so physically demanding. I also just really enjoy massages. The percentage of providers I will see for regular massages is very, very small. There’s a lot of nonsense in the business. Even among some of the good people, I am quite picky about massages. It’s expensive as you all know, so I want to spend my $ where it counts.

Some massage therapists hire me regularly because they recognize and appreciate - better than anyone - a high quality experience for a good value. I also collaborate with other therapists on 4-hand massages for clients that request it. For 4-hand, I have to know if the other provider and I work well together, if they’re reliable, what quality they deliver, etc.

Trading massage is a gamble. You never know how good it’s going to be with a new provider or if they are the right provider for you. It saves money, to be sure, but costs time (and availability, which = potential $). The best case scenario is to trade when each person is less busy, or less likely to be booked. I prefer to hire. If the therapist is a good fit for my needs and likes my work too, that’s the best case scenario for a trade.

I don’t hire for escort service (no interest or need), but I completely understand the reliability factor of being able to hire. My clients share horror stories of how much time they spend (and waste) on unreliable and/or bad connections on apps and websites. If you have to spend half your week doing that and it’s still bad, economically it makes sense to spend a few hundred dollars to get exactly what you want with who you want, when you want. It works no differently for providers.

We’re people too, with human needs and time limitations, no matter our level of conventional attractiveness. Sure some of us have more “options” as it were, but not all of them are options we actually want. We also value safety, quality of experience, compatibility, and reliability.

A new provider was added to the Provider database.

Name: Simon Suraci
Profile URL: https://rentmasseur.com/simonsuraci
Age: 30's
Orientation: Gay
Ethnicity: Caucasian

Physical Information:
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 180 lbs
Build: Unknown
Eyes: Green
Hair: Blond
Facial Hair: Beard
Body Hair: Light

View full provider