Simon Suraci

I agree. I chatted with him in PS last month. He and his client were staying a couple doors down. He’s sexy! 😉

Very good. You’re sending a photo and/or stats for the right reasons, then.

I had an overnight recently for a trusted longtime client. He flew in around 9:30pm and I picked him up at the airport. I arranged for a third to join us for about an hour to start. We got the third off to the client’s satisfaction and he left. Then the client and I f*cked like rabbits into the wee hours, taking a break for some massage time between sessions, and had a long, hot (in every sense) shower together. We finally went to sleep at 3am and we had to get up at 5am so I could drop him back off at the airport for his early morning flight. It was a cuddly 2-hr nap, really. I woke him up by giving him oral to completion and served him a continental breakfast, including organic duck eggs from my farm. He was happy. The crazy travel schedule was his idea, by the way, to squeeze between his other life and work obligations. I took the day off to recover. I slept from late morning into the mid afternoon and went to bed at my normal bedtime later that night. I turned down clients. That cost me money, but it was necessary for me to make the overnight happen. I also couldn’t in good conscience offer a massage to a client when I knew I wouldn’t be able to give my best. Therefore the compensation at least partially offsets my opportunity costs for the day after. I charged my client $1,500 and he tipped $100. My calculus is thus: roughly (5+) hours of service/action (outside the 2-hr “nap”) which I would normally charge up to $1k for, depending on how you dice it. Then there’s the extra couple hours of action/service in the morning I again might have charged between $300-$500 for if it wasn’t an overnight. Plus the courtesy of coordinating the other guy joining. Then there’s the missed work the rest of the day, the hassle of interrupting my sleeping patterns and my general dislike/irritation of sleeping with anyone. Plus the stamina I had to bring and maintain for a long period, and deliver the goods over and over. BUT factor in it was slightly less time than a standard (12) hr overnight +/-. AND I really like and trust this client. We have a good history. We have a good time together. I want him to visit again. Normally I would have charged $2k for a standard overnight for someone I know less or don’t know at all. Some people can be torturous, and not in a fun way. For him, for this set of circumstances, I charged $1,500. That was the sweet spot for both parties to be happy. He plans to visit again for another session like this soon. A client might clutch his wallet at amounts from $1.5k-2k (or more) for an “overnight” lasting around 8hrs-12hrs ish, but the way I think through all the components, I believe the range I quote is a pretty reasonable ask. You get a lot of value for the cost. Money aside, overnights aren’t everybody’s cup of tea. For those with the ability and desire, however, it’s really worth the price of admission - particularly with a provider you really like, trust, and get along with. God knows what this costs to hire a woman for something similar. Count your blessings, boys.

I don’t think so. Clients hire us for privacy, relative anonymity, and for us to not care what the client looks like but to service him anyway. That’s part of the inherent value of hiring; not having to appeal to another person’s tastes and preferences, particularly with regard to the way you look. This dynamic may be weird in other contexts but totally normal for this one. We providers are used to it. Imperfect as the comparison may be, I might hire a therapist in some small part based on the way they look in their photos. Are they inviting, compassionate, and open, or closed, judgmental, and creepy? They have never seen me before but I hire their services and show up sight unseen, and their job is to help me with some rather personal, emotional, and intimate aspects of my life. In that limited way, hiring a therapist is somewhat adjacent to hiring a provider. I can’t imagine feeling compelled to send my therapist a photo of myself before our first meeting. Sending a photo is a nice courtesy, and I welcome it, mostly just to help me remember the client better and to add to their contact as a quick reference along with my notes. More often than not a client expects us to offer some commentary or react to the way they look. He wants validation, but there is no good way for us to give it to him. No matter what we say, we can’t win: 1) We say something positive. You assume we’re not genuine. 2) We say something positive. You believe we are genuine. You might conclude we lack professionalism because we’re meeting with you for the wrong reasons. 3) We say something vague, neutral, or even negative about the way you look. You assume the worst about us and how the meeting will go. Perhaps you cancel because of it. So…that leaves only one reasonable option: say nothing about the way the client looks. Consider this when you send a photo. Expect your provider to say nothing. When he says nothing, would you still want to send it? If yes, you’re sending for the right reason. Conversely, are you feeling disappointed that your provider does not comment on your looks? Then you’re sending photos for the wrong reasons. Our work is very different from other businesses in many respects, and the client is hiring us based on many factors, including in large part based on the way we look, both above and below the neck. This business has unique norms and expectations on both sides of hiring, but it’s a business nonetheless. I don’t find seeing clients sight unseen to be at all weird given the specific context. This topic brings to mind hookups and how different they are to hiring. Yet even there, context matters. Looks are very important for most hookup situations, or even a date. You need mutual interest and attraction for both parties to agree to meet. Not always though. I suppose it depends on what you want. “I’m ass up, face down, in a dark/dim room and I want your anonymous load. Come in through my unlocked door at: [insert location and other details here].” Sometimes what the other person looks like is immaterial. Meeting sight unseen is not weird in a context like this one.

Fair enough. Take what you can get!

I’m one of the InnDulge whores… Nicely run, well kept. Not cheap, but less than Hacienda, and Hacienda is quite nice and you pay for it. As always, clothing is optional, meaning you don’t have to be nude all the time for it to be enjoyable. It’s quite a social atmosphere and easy to get into friendly conversations with other guests, both naked and clothed alike.

No, I have no expectations, other than the client is of legal age, consents, and pays me for my time. That goes for incalls or outcalls, and 95% of the time I have no idea what the client looks like before our first meeting. My youngest is 19 and my oldest is 91. All different races, body types, personalities, and abilities. They have different preferences and different needs. It really could be anyone. That said, client age falls on what I like to think of as a bell curve. I describe it in this thread:

Or…invest in hiring a masseur who provides a real, purpose built, high quality, full size massage table for you - a sign he takes his job seriously.

I agree. I charge my regular rates when I travel and do just fine. I rent reasonably priced AirBnBs, perhaps costing in the range of one massage session per day, sometimes less. The high volume I do when I travel makes up for the extra costs like renting a house or hotel. Not sure why this would be any different, unless he’s only seeing one or two clients a day.

I saw Alec once for an outcall at my place and we used my table. He gives a decent therapeutic massage, not much into sensual territory which is fine. I just wanted therapeutic. We discussed RentMasseur and he did not want to use it for that reason. I ran into he and his husband/bf socially some time after and they were enjoyable company.

I agree 💯

@Hot4latin Haha, we did not video the session for content or anything like that. We barely took one bad photo as an afterthought. Linking these masseur ads for you below. You will find some chatter on them here on CoM, which you can continue if you wish in the Spas and Masseurs threads that mention them. Didn’t mean to distract that much from the topic here. Peter is on the road, traveling frequently, so you will see him in different cities. He mentioned moving back to New York at the end of a months long tour. MasseurFinder banned Peter because he started a competitor site called Gay Wellness. The other guys are in San Diego. I’ve mentioned Tal Sharone before and his competitor site, Allformen, which is similar to Gay Wellness. Anyone interested in these guys feel free to PM me. André: https://www.masseurfinder.com/massage-therapists/39190/ Brant: https://www.masseurfinder.com/massage-therapists/41104/ Peter: Peter | Wellness | Phoenix GAYWELLNESS.COM Learn about Peter , Massage in Phoenix, Arizona. Find Peter reviews and more on Gay Wellness. Newell: MuscleGingerXL on RentMasseur RENTMASSEUR.COM View my profile on RentMasseur.com I expect to do more group massage trades in the future with other guys, probably a larger group next time. Newell offered to host so we can set up 6-8 tables. We all enjoyed learning from one another.

My relationship with money is a committed one. I haven’t hired very much in a while, maybe two legit massages over the past several months. I would really like to do more but have been saving. To economize, I’ve been doing massage trades from time to time, 1:1 with local guys, usually 90 mins each. A few weeks ago I hosted four other masseurs for a group massage exchange. We shared tips and techniques and enjoyed switching off on one another for 25 mins at a time, rotating out who is getting a massage and who is giving, 1:1 and 2:1 since we had an odd number (5) and space for two tables. All nude of course - purely for practical and efficiency reasons, I assure you 😆. It was a lot of fun. Good guys. From left to right: André, Brant, Yours Truly, Peter, and Newell (not pictured) Newell had to run to his next client before we thought to take this group pic. Sorry for the low quality selfie. Better than nothing, I guess. We all showered together afterwards in my large dual head shower and scrubbed each other down. Yes, we all fit together, even hulking Newell, with space to spare. Truly a big shower! One of these days I’ll have a whole rugby team in there #goals.

I think a masseur should post a baseline 60 min incall rate on his RentMasseur ad, perhaps his lowest rate should he offer multiple. A few only offer outcalls. In that case, his base hourly rate should include some nominal amount for travel, and he should make this clear in the ad copy. Masseurs can specify in the ad that he offers different styles, hot stones, 4-hand, or whatever else and tell the client there that rates vary on factors like travel, modality, etc and prompt the client to ask more about his services for a quote. He need not be completely explicit about anything sexual to get the message across that “we need to talk about what you want” before quoting. The baseline rate signals to the client the minimum he should expect to be paying for an hour of the masseur’s time. That saves time on both sides. That’s just me. Some clients are more comfortable asking. Many are put off by having to ask. I know I am put off when I see “Ask Me” in a masseur ad. I skip those guys entirely when I am hiring. I like someone straightforward, honest, and fair. “Ask Me” is the first clue that they aren’t what I am looking for. A baseline rate is essential for giving the client some sense of whether he should even bother spending his time engaging the masseur with questions. Also, if you have “Ask Me” and no other rate info in your ad, you can’t complain about “time wasters” asking too many questions about your rates and your services. You either be upfront in your ad, or be prepared to patiently answer all of your prospective clients’ many questions in a prompt, professional manner.

1) Providers who want to present their rates clearly up front on RentMasseur will do so. The “Ask Me” guys intentionally choose not to do this, so any confusion around the rate paid with/without tip is on them! 2) Verify rates directly with the provider before you schedule, especially if he lists “Ask Me”, and clarify any up-sells to those rates, if he offers them. Ask your provider his rate and be sure when you ask to be clear about the services you want him to quote. Generic “What is your rate?” is unhelpful because many of us including myself have different rates for services going beyond massage. Some of your guys may have different rates for sensual or erotic, with their own respective definitions applying to each. 3) There is no standard for including the tip or not on the rate paid field. If I had my druthers, I would have clients post the quoted rate for the service you booked since it is the most objective way to compare. It gets murky with upsells for extra services accounted for in a tip format. Tips even without upsells can get confusing too. That’s why I quote distinct rates for massage vs full service massage vs escort services.

For just massage, I agree. That’s crazy, no matter how skilled or amazing he is at massage. From the comments here so far, it sounds like the massage skill level leaves something to be desired. For full service massage, escort service, or combo massage/escort service, $300 for an hour is not unreasonable at all. That’s what I charge and my clients pay it without hesitation. Of course I charge half that for my regular massage services. Reading @Ocposterboy‘s and @tennisjock’s comments give me doubts that anything to the level of escort service is on offer. Ghosting upon arrival is not ok. @DiscreetInSoCal and @aeikaryokothanks for posting a warning of such unprofessional behavior for others to steer clear. Remember guys, think with your big head. It’s all too easy to get carried away with an image online of a hot guy and lose yourself in the fantasy, only to be disappointed with the reality in person. Good looks only go so far.

^This!!! Here is my two cents in typical long form fashion. Firstly, thank you @SouthOfTheBorder for posting this topic. Clients don’t want to talk or think about these things. So many people are immature when it comes to discussing sexual health. Our culture stigmatizes people for wanting - and having - sex. Our culture looks down on sex workers and treats us as scapegoats. We’re the “dirty” ones, the irresponsible, the depraved. But that’s just not true. If anything, professional sex workers are much more responsible and informed than the average person with regard to managing risks, maintaining good sexual health, communicating with their partners, and guarding their personal safety. For every sketchy provider story I hear about on here, there are half a dozen experienced working men doing the right things and handling business professionally, not doing drugs or extorting people or behaving recklessly. The negative stories stick out more so we tend to focus on those. In between the horror stories are many good guys doing good work. I’ll share the following because I know that many of you respect honesty and straight talk. A lot of providers don’t want to share this type of stuff openly because many clients are uneducated and carry around unfair biases and misinformation around sex and sexual health and use it to demonize us. The concern is clients will hold such information against us thinking “So-and-so had such and such last year. Ohhh better not hire him because I might catch the same thing”. It’s not fair because your average msm bareback hookup is going to be a much higher risk to you than hiring a professional. Hiring an experienced pro with a head on his shoulders is going to be relatively much safer for you than random sex in the wild. Clients on this platform are more educated than average on such matters, so perhaps I am preaching to the choir - still stigma persists no matter what we share or keep silent on. That’s why we don’t talk about this stuff very often. Also, it’s not sexy. But it’s important just the same. Non-provider men similar to me have WAAAY more unprotected casual sex than I do, and they only get checked every three months (at best!). Most of them are on PreP and bareback exclusively. Doctors in the US require quarterly testing for patients receiving a PreP regimen, so that’s normal. Some of my peers are not on PreP and don’t know their HIV status, much less whether they are spreading STIs around because they are not testing on any regular basis - perhaps only if/when they experience symptoms (and not everyone experiences symptoms). Many straight-curious and bi men fall into this category, but any type can. If they test, it might be only once or twice a year. Your best case scenario outside of hiring is a conscientious gay guy getting tested every three months. I test every month because of my work. Not because I have more sex than others, but because I care a great deal about my clients, my own health, and my ability to work. Monthly testing only leaves a small window for anything to happen and me not know about it. Keep in mind when you test, you are not clear as of that date you test. You are clear as of 10-14 days or so prior to the date you test, perhaps less. Incubation periods take time for the infection to show up on a test and to be communicable to others. Verify this info with your healthcare provider, as I am not your doctor. I merely bring up the point to clarify testing is not an up-to-the-minute snapshot of what is in your body - rather a snapshot of what has developed in your body (or not) over a period of time since your last exposure up to the time you test. For example, I had a session last year for a client with multiple providers in which I had unprotected sex (bottom) with one of the providers. I topped the client and another provider in that session. As it so happened, I tested on my monthly schedule the following day. A couple days later I got the test results and all was negative. Little did I know one provider I was exposed to during that encounter passed an STI on to me. Given my activities in the weeks surrounding the encounter, I was able to confirm by process of elimination who it was and when. I topped clients, as I typically do, in the following weeks without knowing any of this, and thankfully did not expose any of them to an infection since the infection was rectal only. On my next test, I caught the issue and immediately alerted a few people who may have been exposed based on the activities with which we had recently engaged. It was only a two week or so window that I potentially passed it on and was yet unaware I had an infection. Since I have much fewer clients engaging me for bottom and/or bottom-adjacent activities, it was pretty easy to identify the few that may have been exposed in that short window. Since I test so frequently, I fortunately had the opportunity to give them all quick notice to get tested and/or treated before an infection had enough time to develop, express symptoms, and/or be passed on to anyone else. Here is a client response: I love my regular clients. Most them are really good people. Aside - the provider I got the infection from is married to another provider. Given they have frequent unprotected sex with one another and with all of their respective clients, the risks for them are necessarily higher than your average working guy. Keep this in mind when hiring a provider couple, or one of a pair of providers. Not to stigmatize, but to measure your risk. I have a fraction of the sex of men similar to me, and it’s generally with people who a) are more conscious about the risks they are taking, b) have much less sex on average, and c) practice safer sex -maybe 10-20%. Every provider is different. Some have more recreational sex, some have less. Some have riskier sex, some safer sex, perhaps some mix of both. I’d say that providers tend to have much less recreational sex than their peers, if not by intentional choice, than by the mere practical realities of being in this business. That’s me. One cannot be blowing loads recreationally right and left and expect to have any sexual energy left for his clients to enjoy. Sex carries some risk no matter how much or little sex you have, be it protected or unprotected. Having sex exposes you to the possibility of contracting sexually transmitted infections, full stop. How much risk you are willing to tolerate is up to you. We have many other threads in the forums on how to mitigate risks, like oral vs anal, top vs bottom play, using condoms, vetting your guys, etc, so I won’t get into all those here. My point is you have to be responsible for your own health and assess your own personal level of risk tolerance. For the married/attached guys out there regularly having sex with their significant other, it’s best to keep open communication with your partner/spouse about your hiring. I know many of you don’t share for various reasons, so you risk inadvertently passing an STI on to your partner, and that is a much more difficult conversation to have than discussing the boundaries of your relationship beforehand. I suppose, if you’re not having sex with your partner, you can manage your own sexual health without your partner needing to know anything about your hiring or hooking up habits. Assess and manage your personal level risk, and get tested regularly in proportion to that risk and treat infections promptly if/when they manifest. Simple as that. Better yet, if you’re able, get on PreP and follow the required testing regimen. I know many won’t for shared health record privacy concerns. Talk to your significant other. Sooner or later things will surface. One of my clients likes to bareback flip fuck and he regularly has sex with his wife. I am upfront with him about all of my sexual health and relative risks. He wants the sex anyway. Hey, to each his own. This is our livelihood. It behooves us to stay healthy, obviously for our own sake, but also for the sake of our business. We can’t make money when we are recovering from a sexually transmitted infection. For masseurs like myself, I can’t offer escort service, but I can still massage, sans the extras I otherwise might offer during my recovery, nor can I offer combo massage / sex work service. It puts a damper on what I can earn in that 1-2 week period. For the full time escorts out there, they can’t earn a dime unless they are knowingly putting their clients at risk, which is not only problematic from an ethical and moral perspective, but also just doesn’t make business sense to do. We have too much to lose by damaging our reputations in this way. So…in a sense, seeing a responsible, professional provider may actually carry, in many ways, less risk than having casual recreational sex with the average man who has sex with men. I don’t mean zero risk. Less risk. I agree with much of the other posters on mitigating risk with visual checks, mouthwash, peeing after sex, washing, etc. Never a bad idea, but all of these are marginal at best in helping reduce your risk. If you have the sex at all, you already took on the risk. Very little in the form of after care will prevent you from getting STIs. We sex workers take on this personal level of risk and manage that risk as best we can. That’s part of what you’re paying us for. Think like how much you pay an oil rigger vs a controlled environment factory line worker. One job is inherently more risky, so you compensate it more to account for that level of risk and damage control. When your providers inform you that you may have been exposed to an STI, they are being responsible and doing the right thing. Please do not stigmatize them or punish them for doing their job or for taking on reasonable levels of risk that this job requires. Honor them and show them respect. Keep hiring us when we are well, because we are responsible and professional, and we care.

Thanks for the mention, @BuffaloKyle. Yup, sorry west coast here. I’ll make it to NY state on the road again, possibly NYC. I have a growing interest list for NYC. Anyone here with an interest, PM me to get on that list, if you have not already. Yes, I offer body scrub services. It takes about 25-30 mins and I am very thorough. No part of you goes untouched. I reach around your back like a big firm hug to scrub and wash your torso. My clients really enjoy the full body-to-body contact. More close and intimate than your typical Turkish, Thai, or Korean scrubs. It depends on the client and what they seem comfortable with, but sometimes I will kiss his neck or nuzzle his shoulders. I can’t imagine someone like@pubic_assistance being into that, but to each his own. Maybe no body to body touch at all. I read your body language and go from there. Mutual touch and play is very much welcome, although it’s not the focus of a body scrub. Remember I am using an exfoliant, so you don’t want that getting directly in or around your sensitive bits with any friction. There’s plenty of opportunity for touch before the scrubbing and after the rinse and body wash cycles. Many a client member becomes erect, perhaps again after climaxing during the massage. Some do not at all and that’s fine. It’s great for your skin and very relaxing - well worth the cost apart from anything erotic or sensual going on. Most clients are so zenned out and extremely relaxed at this point after a massage that it’s not really the vibe to make a hardcore shower play session happen. Keep in mind you’re not paying an appropriate fee for that either, unless you work something out ahead of time. Typically it’s more sensual and relaxing. It’s comforting having a naked man with no inhibitions take care of you from head to toe. You don’t even need to towel yourself off. All you do is stand there in total bliss. @Wolfer@soloyo215There is space in my shower in San Diego for a body length teak table to give Vichy showers. I am considering offering those in the future. I vacillate between the perks of either a) greater contact standing up, or b) a more relaxing horizontal position for the client. I suppose I could offer both. @streetfan14 I’ve been wanting to try Marc Dylan for a while now. Even more reason to see him! Sounds great. @KensingtonHomo your experience is more realistic. There usually isn’t enough time to have a long (free) shower session with a client after a massage. A 5 min or so shower to lather up and rinse off with a short bit of (optional) sensual touching is sufficient. I do this upon request. If a mutual shower is important to anyone here, be sure to request it but please don’t outstay your welcome. Your masseur may have someone booked after you and he can’t spend 30 mins in the shower with you when he really needs to spend that time changing the linens for the next client, responding to inquiries, grabbing a quick bite, or what have you. Unfortunately clients try to extract more time without paying, basically trying to get the scrub for free, and/or some sex for free. @TravelingLibra has a reasonable attitude by booking the time to include the shower. Not everyone explicitly offers the shower service like I do, but I am sure many would be willing. A few clients hire me just for the scrub! Best to communicate your desires and expectations so your masseur can meet your needs. @Thelatin good for you if you’re paying for a massage and getting shower sex for free. Maybe that’s not what you meant, but I just want to bring up the point anyhow. It’s a different story when you’re paying for escort service. I often shower with my clients after sexual play, or as part of the main event. I at least offer a shower. We can continue play in the shower or simply have a relaxing unrushed time together getting cleaned up and continuing our touch, conversation, and connection. I like these. It’s generally built into the time the client is hiring, but not always. If I have time to go over, I do. I offer combo spa/escort sessions as well, so our time together can be more fluid, and go with the flow between all the activities.

I’ve heard good things about Reyn from a couple of my clients. He’s on my list to try. What does his membership service entail? Cost, frequency, services?

It was a delight meeting @IronMaus in PS a few weeks ago. I can’t say I am one to hire for anything more than therapeutic massages from time to time. If I did, Maus would be right up there on my list. He’s a gem.

Fair enough. I know many here feel the same way. I don’t knock anyone for hiring many guys, having a stable rotation, or even a continuous string of one-and-done experiences. To each their own. There is no correct way to hire. You might fit someone’s definition of a regular, or you might not, depending on how often you hire and/or what kinds of experiences you prefer to have. Sometimes you don’t want to get that close to, or too comfortable with, one person. Hiring is a way to meet your needs on your own terms. When you can text a provider and they know exactly who you are and what you need, and the only thing you have to confirm is the time…I personally would consider that a regular.

Let the games begin!

100% agree

I LOVE rimming. It’s among my best sexual talents, and one of my specialties. I enjoy doing this for my clients, and sometimes they book me just for a rimming session. It’s not infrequent I make men cum this way. Great if a client enjoys rimming me too, but I’m truly a giver. I wrote a guide. Linking below: