Raise The Rate 2018 Proposal Letter

[MiamiLooker]

Most clients don't know. Compromising rates based on need rather than some formula or principle (like reductions for longer hiring periods) looks unprofessional. It also leads to questions about who exactly is getting breaks and who isn't. Is there a premium paid by uglier/older/less attractive clients? That tends to break the trust that's necessary.

 

Also it's different when an escort decides to give a specific client a discount or other break than when an escort accepts a low-ball offer in order to pay the rent. The latter looks more like hustling than escorting.

Do you know what Mocha's rate is today? Or, his rate yesterday or last week? If I contacted him to hire him, I figure whatever rate he tells me is his rate. I would have no idea what he charged his previous customer or what he might charge his next customer.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I love how you get into a super serious discussion when it was clearly intended to be a joke :D:D

 

You are known as the poster child for thoughtful entrepreneur. And I am known as super serious. Is there any surprise here?

 

I took your question as a joke. But it is still an excellent serious question.

 

But on a really serious note, it just pisses me off to no end that I don't get the word "hung" in my name. So don't push it.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Do you know what Mocha's rate is today? Or, his rate yesterday or last week? If I contacted him to hire him, I figure whatever rate he tells me is his rate. I would have no idea what he charged his previous customer or what he might charge his next customer.

 

She's moved on. She's clearly going for a Tony. Which is an award. Think that through.

 

Last time you and I got into a bitch session about somebody trying to get an award, your instincts ended up being right. I think we're both pretty smart, so this time you ought to be considering it's my turn.

 

So I just wouldn't fuck with Mocha if she's going for her Tony. There's nothing in FOSTA that says it's illegal. So just let her have it.

[coriolis888]

 

If you're hiring an escort from his Rentmen ad, how would you know if his rate has changed since rates aren't published? If you contacted an escort you'd hired before, and he told you his rate was $50 less than before, why would that make a difference to you (assuming you were contacting him to hire at the previous rate) as long as he provides the agreed upon service?

 

 

The question was "Do you think most clients care if an escort varies his rate - - "

 

My response was answering the "varies" question. If a repeat escort "varies" his rate upward from what it previously was, it could matter as for principle.

[+ stevenkesslar]

The question was "Do you think most clients care if an escort varies his rate - - "

 

Okay, I took my medication. So no more bad jokes. I'm back to being boring and serious.

 

That's the other thing about FOSTA that gives escorts the huge upper hand - no pun intended. At the margin, at least, it empowers an entreprenuerial escort with a cell phone. Again, read the DOJ letter. At the margin, it disempowers national or international websites, even ones that are mostly about consensual sex (See Craigslist).

 

The key questions about escorts are pretty simple: 1) What do they actually do? 2) What do they charge for what they do?

 

We're at the point where I think Gay sex is okay now, even if most Straight people don't want to hear about it. So I can say I am going to get together with some Gay guy and suck his cock, and as long as I don't mention anything about whether there was a rate for that, I think that's just protected freedom of speech. I think I could post a picture of his cock, and it would be protected freedom of speech. Even though Google Drive might say it violates their TOS.

 

My point is that the simple and most obvious thing to do is just get rid of any discussion or written information that has anything to do with rates, period. If I were a local escort trying to steer clear of FOSTA, that's what I would do, and that's what I'd expect websites to do. If you aren't charging for it, it's not illegal.

 

How this all sorts itself out remains to be seen. But I doubt that the Brave New World is going to be one where no website can be used for two Gay men to hook up online, including for the purpose of having consensual sex. So my guess is that as the dust settles, websites - which are the clear targets of FOSTA - may determine that as long as you're not talking about charging for what you do, it's good.

 

As an escort, I don't see that as a problem. I could argue it's an opportunity. As a consumer, it's a whole different matter.

[+ quoththeraven]

Do you know what Mocha's rate is today? Or, his rate yesterday or last week? If I contacted him to hire him, I figure whatever rate he tells me is his rate. I would have no idea what he charged his previous customer or what he might charge his next customer.

I made that point. It's not relevant to what his revelations on the forum tell us about how he conducts his business, which in actuality seems to result in whatever random rate a client can get him to agree to.

 

I will also speak about the elephant in the room: his race is a factor in all this. He is going to be pressured to negotiate rates, won't be offered the same opportunities for travel and overnights as others, and will be stereotyped and fetishized (per his complaints about being asked if he can be aggressive). That's a huge burden to deal with and requires more than the usual amount of business savvy and a thick skin to put up with. The only Black escort I can think of to successfully negotiate this path is Sean Xavier, and at least part of the reason why is his porn career.

[coriolis888]

I made that point. It's not relevant to what his revelations on the forum tell us about how he conducts his business, which in actuality seems to result in whatever random rate a client can get him to agree to.

 

I will also speak about the elephant in the room: his race is a factor in all this.

 

 

Normally, I agree with most of what you write.

 

However, in your quoted post, I must say that I don't think his race has much to do with the issue.

 

Many clients prefer escorts of his race.

 

It is his negative attitude (writing style) that often shines through which might cause him problems in scoring clients.

 

Just my opinion, right or wrong.

Edited April 11, 2018 by coriolis888

[+ José Soplanucas]

Normally, I agree with most of what you write.

 

However, in your quoted post, I must say that I don't think his race has much to do with the issue.

 

Many clients prefer escorts of his race.

 

It is his negative attitude (writing style) that often shines through which might cause him problems in scoring clients.

 

Just my opinion, right or wrong.

 

My friend, beyond disagreements with any particular escorts, do not underestimate race. I do not think @quoththeraven is saying that race is the issue that explains everything, she just says it is a factor. I think you do know she is right. Bringing her example here, why do you think Alam Wernik, unknown one year ago, can price himself at 600 the hour but Sean only at half of that, after years of being a top porn star and escort?

Demand for white guys is just higher. The review that broke all the hits records in my blog was about a White escort. Even when the followers of my blog know my preferences, and you would expect share them, my traffic rocketed with this White guy, waaaaay above everyone else, and he is not even a porn star or very popular.

Edited April 11, 2018 by latbear4blk

[instudiocity]

I spend time in India because I’m Indian. If mocking me for being currently in India doesn’t amount to racism in your opinion, then you don’t understand how racism operates. Unsurprising

I'm in India because I'm Indian means that people are racist because your in India or because you are Indian???

 

You are making a circular argument. I'm in India because I am Indian so everyone who judges me is judging me based on my race. I know there are also many caucasians in India from English Colonization, and I wouldn't be surprised to find individuals of every race on the planet in India.

 

I didn't know you were Indian until you posted this nonsense.

 

(FYI, I'm richer than you and my income is much higher than yours.)

[instudiocity]

To tie a nice bow on this whole thread,

 

People been fucking for thousands of years and nothing any government does is going to stop people from fucking.

 

Things change, but preventing guys from fucking each other will never work/last/happen.

[coriolis888]

My friend, beyond disagreements with any particular escorts, do not underestimate race. I do not think @quoththeraven is saying that race is the issue that explains everything, she just say it is a factor. I think you do know she is right. Bringing her example here, why do you think Alam Wernik, unknown one year ago, can price himself at 600 the hour but Sean only at half of that, after years of being a top porn star and escort?

Demand for white guys is just higher. The review that broke all the hits records in my blog was about a White escort. Even when the followers of my blog know my preferences, and you would expect share them, my traffic rocketed with this White guy, waaaaay above everyone else, and he is not even a porn star or very popular.

 

 

Well, that tells how much I am not aware of all things. To me, race does not matter. Selfishly, I erroneous thought everyone agreed with the way I feel.

I should have known better

[coriolis888]

I'm in India because I'm Indian means that'll people are racist because your in India or because you are Indian???

 

You are making a circular argument. I'm in India because I am Indian so everyone who judges me is judging me based on my race.

 

I didn't know you were Indian until you posted this nonsense.

 

If you read the countess long posts that were made by the poster, it is obvious the person has a lot of issues.

[Mocha]

I don't normally talk to women this way, but bewitched, I'm about to let you have it:

 

When business being slow is all one ever starts discussions about, it's not unreasonable for commenters to wonder why and think OP doesn't have a grasp on the business and is in the wrong line of work or is a complainer generally who can't roll with the punches or both.

 

Admitting that you vary rates based on monetary need suggests you are in this for survival rather than as a career, and it shows in your posts. All of that means your posting here to vent tends to hurt rather than help your marketing, but if you want to use the forum to vent rather than advance your business, so be it.

 

I admire your honesty and courage in continuing to post despite negative feedback, but I'm also of the opinion that you're in the wrong line of work.

 

Well you sound real ignorant, because if you knew any better...you'd know I have clients in over 40 states, all of whom are happy to see me when I come. Don't lie and say being slow is ALL I ever talk about. I've not stated that but once this year AFTER, AFTER I had posted that escorting had become so great again. Sometimes I've been so busy...oftentimes too busy to entertain shit talkers like yourself. When I've talked about other things, where were you? So sit down.

 

Most clients don't know. Compromising rates based on need rather than some formula or principle (like reductions for longer hiring periods) looks unprofessional. It also leads to questions about who exactly is getting breaks and who isn't. Is there a premium paid by uglier/older/less attractive clients? That tends to break the trust that's necessary.

 

Also it's different when an escort decides to give a specific client a discount or other break than when an escort accepts a low-ball offer in order to pay the rent. The latter looks more like hustling than escorting.

 

You missed the whole point, genius. That just goes to show, your thinking is narrow and shallow, and you're beneath the level of professionalism and experience to comprehend basic principles. You making assumptions about me charging more based on looks is ignorant AF. You sound insecure and fake for even saying some shit like that. As if that's the ONLY thing involved. I'm not surprised, because you're not doing what eacorts do, so I wouldn't expect you to know better. Nor do I need to feel obligated to explain anything to you.

 

That's a huge burden to deal with and requires more than the usual amount of business savvy and a thick skin to put up with. The only Black escort I can think of to successfully negotiate this path is Sean Xavier, and at least part of the reason why is his porn career.

 

Oh please, the same Sean Xavier who's retired a handful of different times and came back? You have to be faking dumb right now. I could name plenty. There's a plethora of Black escorts who have navigated the path you speak of, porn or no porn. I'm one of them. If you don't believe me, that's yo problem.

 

Please don't do that. That's lame. Don't name drop another escort, and pull him into an argument, because that's going to be a disservice to him and it's going to make you look like a shit stirrer. It's also going to make me have to say things, I don't want to say. I'm going to call you out, and say how I feel if it doesn't sound right.

Edited April 11, 2018 by Mocha

[Mocha]

Normally, I agree with most of what you write.

 

However, in your quoted post, I must say that I don't think his race has much to do with the issue.

 

Many clients prefer escorts of his race.

 

It is his negative attitude (writing style) that often shines through which might cause him problems in scoring clients.

 

Just my opinion, right or wrong.

 

Very wrong. You're talking out of your ass, and don't even have anything to back up what you're saying. "Many clients prefer escorts of his race". What's my race? What race are you referring to? You can't even say it, nor can you even say "prefers black escorts", because that would make you look ignorant considering the stats on this forum and many of the websites.

 

Any interruptions in business aren't always due to me, because I appeal to a diverse audience. But as we have seen, there's a lot of limitations in our government/advertising platforms that affect the business every couple of years. With men4rent, backpage, and CL gone...there's one main website right now and just a couple upcoming ones. I'm going back to making my own. Escorts have a lot to navigate, so now is not the time to be making bitchy comments about how busy someone may or may not be.

 

And problems scoring clients according to whom? Believe me, there's no problems here. Sometimes I want to be busier, but don't fool yourself into believing I'm not scoring. I do have a problem with you throwing around wildly erroneous statements, and when another poster corrects you, you act all fake and blonde girl like you didn't know better. Get the f**k out of here, CLOWN.

[marylander1940]

It is truly hard to find adequate justification to finance this "revolution" based on a copy-and-paste statement posted by an escort who is virtually unknown in this community. I also find it somewhat ironic and disturbing that the legislation is meant to curb sex-trafficking, while the other escort has bragged repeatedly about "training" new escorts. I am quite satisfied with maintaining my periodic relations with my previous hires, not one of whom has suggested a rate increase is in the near future. I believe the best form of resistance is to continue with business as usual, which is also simply good business.

 

Training ain't trafficking and they will all be at least 18.

[+ peterhung85]

You are known as the poster child for thoughtful entrepreneur. And I am known as super serious. Is there any surprise here?

 

I took your question as a joke. But it is still an excellent serious question.

 

But on a really serious note, it just pisses me off to no end that I don't get the word "hung" in my name. So don't push it.

Don't know who you have been talking to but they are.... RIGHT!

 

Anyway... we may not need a union leader but we can certainly form a board of director of Escorts where we pick one household name from every big metropolitan city and decide on these intriguing topics :D:D:D

[Mocha]

My point is that the simple and most obvious thing to do is just get rid of any discussion or written information that has anything to do with rates, period. If I were a local escort trying to steer clear of FOSTA, that's what I would do, and that's what I'd expect websites to do. If you aren't charging for it, it's not illegal.

 

Yeah but, we can't keep ducking and hiding. At some point we need to stand up for our rights and freedoms. Why do we need to fake like we're not charging, do we not have enough of instances where people are confused on our rates or even what we do? Why confuse it even more, by getting rid of all references to payment. When do we bring payment up then, drop a bomb in person?

 

The online gay escort biz has been around since the turn of the millennium. The best years of online escorting were probably in that 2002-2007 range. Since then, there's been changes after changes, after changes. Why all of a sudden in 2018, we're backing down and just letting them push us around and fuck with us?

 

[+ quoththeraven]

Normally, I agree with most of what you write.

 

However, in your quoted post, I must say that I don't think his race has much to do with the issue.

 

Many clients prefer escorts of his race.

 

It is his negative attitude (writing style) that often shines through which might cause him problems in scoring clients.

 

Just my opinion, right or wrong.

Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

 

If you legit think that the playing field is level, I don't know what to say.

 

Also, "a factor" means one factor, not the only factor.

Edited April 12, 2018 by quoththeraven

[+ quoththeraven]

I don't normally talk to women this way, but bewitched, I'm about to let you have it:

 

 

 

Well you sound real ignorant, because if you knew any better...you'd know I have clients in over 40 states, all of whom are happy to see me when I come. Don't lie and say being slow is ALL I ever talk about. I've not stated that but once this year AFTER, AFTER I had posted that escorting had become so great again. Sometimes I've been so busy...oftentimes too busy to entertain shit talkers like yourself. When I've talked about other things, where were you? So sit down.

 

 

 

You missed the whole point, genius. That just goes to show, your thinking is narrow and shallow, and you're beneath the level of professionalism and experience to comprehend basic principles. You making assumptions about me charging more based on looks is ignorant AF. You sound insecure and fake for even saying some shit like that. As if that's the ONLY thing involved. I'm not surprised, because you're not doing what eacorts do, so I wouldn't expect you to know better. Nor do I need to feel obligated to explain anything to you.

 

 

 

Oh please, the same Sean Xavier who's retired a handful of different times and came back? You have to be faking dumb right now. I could name plenty. There's a plethora of Black escorts who have navigated the path you speak of, porn or no porn. I'm one of them. If you don't believe me, that's yo problem.

 

Please don't do that. That's lame. Don't name drop another escort, and pull him into an argument, because that's going to be a disservice to him and it's going to make you look like a shit stirrer. It's also going to make me have to say things, I don't want to say. I'm going to call you out, and say how I feel if it doesn't sound right.

Fair enough, but where in any of your posts do we get a sense for the positive side of your business as described in the first paragraph? We don't have ESP. We only know what you tell us.

 

And I concede that bringing up another escort might not have been wise. I wasn't trying to stir a competitive pot.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Yeah but, we can't keep ducking and hiding. At some point we need to stand up for our rights and freedoms.

 

Seriously, what's the difference?

 

You might want to bone up on Saul Alinsky or Lao Tzu. And, no, "bone up" is not a sexual euphemism. It is an intellectual challenge.

 

"Keep your enemy on his heels. Play the game in such a way that you are completely unpredictable, and it will drive your enemy crazy trying to figure out what you will do next. Never allow him to relax. When he tries to relax, that is when you hit him hard. When he is strong and ready, sit back, be patient, and relax while he is stress, pumped up, and ready to go. Attack your enemy’s mind, and many times, he will defeat himself."

 

https://thewisdomwarrior.com/2015/05/23/devious-strategies-to-defeat-your-enemies/

 

Our industry ain't going away. Yeah, maybe the web version has been around since 2000. But as an industry, it's been around a little longer than that.

 

Right now, the moral warriors are strong and ready to roll. So one step to think about right now is this: let's stay out of their way. It's a good time to let them exhaust themselves. And by that I don't mean let's not talk to Congress about how ridiculous this law is. I mean let's not make it easy for them to go after us.

 

It's inevitable that they are going to trip all over themselves and create a backlash. What we don't know is how quickly, and how much backlash.

 

http://sesta-fosta.com/

 

How many "legitimate" people get pissed off by this new Prohibition remains to be seen. But at least one filtering service is suggesting that used car ads and ads for floral shops can be sex trafficking in disguise. So words relating to that should now apparently be filtered. It sounds like an absurd extreme. But if it gets to the point that you can't buy flowers or used cars online anymore, that will build indignation and undermine this law. The essential job of the government under FOSTA is supposed to be to fight sex traffickers, not make it hard to buy flowers or used cars online.

 

So I'm not suggesting we shouldn't stand up for our rights and freedoms. We should. We should fight back. Ducking and hiding and driving the sumbitches absolutely fucking crazy is one perfectly fine way to fight back, I think.

[Mocha]

Fair enough, but where in any of your posts do we get a sense for the positive side of your business as described in the first paragraph? We don't have ESP. We only know what you tell us.

 

And I concede that bringing up another escort might not have been wise. I wasn't trying to stir a competitive pot.

 

Well, ya did stir the pot. Big time. Don't go there, because I don't want to go there. That's the issue with the game, just like I said the other week. Whenever Black escorts do get recognition, it's always made out to be just ONE. That becomes misleading, because then you give the erroneous impression that only ONE black escort can do well. That's patronizing, and you won't get by on saying that around me.

 

You want to get a positive side of the business? Don't you see the picture on my profile? I'm on a villa in St. Petersburg beach, after having left a client's place. While the rest of America is still trying to dig out of winter, it's been hitting 80 everyday in Florida since the start of April. I don't have to go to Palm Springs, I'm surrounded by Palm trees right now.

 

But atleast you admitted that was shady, so...I'll let it rest (unless someone else brings it up).

[+ tassojunior]

wow...omnibus thread

 

1. FOSTA won't cause rates to go higher. Just the opposite. Already from the MassuerFinder shirt rule I'm getting messages from friends that their income is halved. (And that's even though a lot of other masseurs have dropped off MF). They will take what they can get now.

 

2. The "high price" guys are pretentious in person too and it ruins the sex. They're just cutting their own throats financially by having too high a rate. Seldom lasts. Those that do last have their own peculiar reasons to want few clients. My BelAmi friends tell me they make more money at $350 than at $500 by far.

 

3. Even if FOSTA does lead to most porn disappearing, most voters won't mind. Family types usually hate porn. Now if teenage boys were a sizeable portion of the electorate we might have outrage. But porn, much less escorting, is a very tiny sliver of the electorate. Now if FOSTA were to take down Wikipedia or Reddit or Instagram or Twitter there would be some backlash.

[Mocha]

3. Even if FOSTA does lead to most porn disappearing, most voters won't mind. Family types usually hate porn. But porn, much less escorting, is a very tiny sliver of the electorate.

 

Are you referring to the married family guys who make up a large portion of our clientele?

[+ tassojunior]

Are you referring to the married family guys who make up a large portion of our clientele?

 

Not the closet gays with families; the actual heterosexual family guys. There's a lot of those even though from an escort's perspective that may seem hard to believe.

[Mocha]

Not the closet gays with families; the actual heterosexual family guys. There's a lot of those even though from an escort's perspective that may seem hard to believe.

 

No the heck it's not hard to believe. Believe that. I lived in suburban White Denver. I know how intensely boring and conservative things can be. But I also know there's guys you would never think or believe, but they are open to try.

 

And what is an actual heterosexual family guy anyway? Could you pick one out? I bet you'd not be able to tell the difference between that and a closet gay. The same guy could be with his wife and kids at Disney world, looking perfectly straight; but be sucking dick by midnight later that night.

 

That's why we don't need to hide, we need to fight. Just like people camp out for the latest iPhone, we need to (figuratively) camp out in front of the White House or Capitol until something gets changed.