A Dark, Dark time in our business... re ...CL and now M.4.R.N.

[Michael Wayne]

None of us were real fans of men 4 rent now but when I tried to login to my page and the site was no longer available after 10.5 years of advertising there I did have some sadness. Does anyone know if they just shut down on their own after the bill passed or were they shut down as was Rentboy? This loss, when coupled with the demise of Craigslist personals is a massive blow to the biz. I found that CL was a great way to drive people to my rentmen profile. Lots of closeted married men who want to be discreet clients dwell there. These are the guys who either wont go directly to rentmen or don't know about the site. A sad , sad day!

Anyway I haven't posted in a while. I've been doing my own thing and minding my own business mostly. I hope everyone is doing well these days. Mikey in DC @ www.rentmen.com/magicmikeydc

[LaffingBear]

100% speculation:

 

I assume the M4RN was a combo of factors. In the one year I paid attention, I watched M4RN advertisements dwindle. For the SFBay Area, which is probably a bigger market.

 

While there were 3 pages of ads (mobile, tablet) a year ago, there was only one page last week.

 

And so, I assume with business-failure likely anyway, they chose not to fight the coming battles. Even minimal legal expenses to respond to government inquiry wouldn't have been worth it. Or the effort to save a failing biz.

 

I repeat, however, I don't know, just assume.....

[Mocha]

As I told a client earlier, men4rent was on its way out the door anyway. My profile was removed couple weeks ago, and they were unresponsive to correpdence.

 

Craigslist...well that was just a crock of crap waiting to go too. I made my bank from it over the years, but only in very select markets. Using a discount auto parts/job/housing to advertise free or paid sex seems a bit dated. To me, that too died back in 2010 when they took the erotic section down: which was in itself wasn’t that great, charging $5 a day for a single picture ad that would randomly get denied.

 

If anything, let’s wait things out before declaring doom. As we seen, the closing of rentboy eventually improved the business. A shitty site fell off, and made way for a better designed, CHEAPER website.

 

If anything, those from Craigslist will seek out other sites (like RM), and we will see an increase in business like never before.

 

I know I get pegged for negativity, but we can look at the devastation or we can look for ways this could open doors to improvements.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

Chicken Little... The sky has not yet fallen

[DaddyVoyeurWanted]

New and better sites came instead

Jock2go

Rentboy.pro

Mintboys

[rustyrex]

Wow that was quick. I hardly looked at m4rn, it just got so silly with the non advertisement ads. Now that it's gone..... well it makes me wonder who's next? I'm debating whether or not to save web pages like crazy to preserve who I want to see in the future. It's a matter of time....the throw away sites get targeted first, then the gays will get targeted next, then the mistresses and madams to the powerful and elite (those secrets will cost the elite dearly). I'm not sure there is a solution to this....driving it underground makes things worse. There is Nevada or offshore for a server but who knows....this is a first. Will porn be wiped away too? Who has time to enforce such laws? Law enforcement is stretched thin as it is. They took affordable internet away, my bill jumped to $95 for internet only, then they took my favorite pastime, and next who knows? Anonymity?

[DaddyVoyeurWanted]

They will not B able 2close the sites which R based in Europe. Only if they will build "the great Chinese golden shield" for the US after building the great Mex wall:mad: M I right?

[+ Keith30309]

They will not B able 2close the sites which R based in Europe. Only if they will build "the great Chinese golden shield" for the US after building the great Mex wall:mad: M I right?

 

To play devil's advocate, if you are standing inside of the US sending messages related to escorting services (be it emails, texts, blogs, whatever) then some US-based service owns the wired or wireless infrastructure across which the offending data crosses to get to that European host (unless you are using a personally-owned satellite service). That wired/wireless service could conceivably be found to be complicit in aiding and abetting trafficking under the new law.

 

I believe that is the logical extreme and unenforceable across the board simply due to scale... but not in a few select cases in order to make an example out of someone.

 

Therefore, an ATT. for example, could conceivable believe it necessary to filter all traffic at the egress points of their undersea cables. (I doubt this is technically feasible but it illustrates the point that simply placing a host outside the US doesn't mean that access to it cannot be stopped from within the US. If you VPN elsewhere first then it becomes an even more difficult chore.)

 

Just a guess.

[Mocha]

Wow that was quick. I hardly looked at m4rn, it just got so silly with the non advertisement ads. Now that it's gone..... well it makes me wonder who's next? I'm debating whether or not to save web pages like crazy to preserve who I want to see in the future. It's a matter of time....the throw away sites get targeted first, then the gays will get targeted next, then the mistresses and madams to the powerful and elite (those secrets will cost the elite dearly). I'm not sure there is a solution to this....driving it underground makes things worse. There is Nevada or offshore for a server but who knows....this is a first. Will porn be wiped away too? Who has time to enforce such laws? Law enforcement is stretched thin as it is. They took affordable internet away, my bill jumped to $95 for internet only, then they took my favorite pastime, and next who knows? Anonymity?

 

Websites come and go. I don't think we necessarily need limitless options for sex. Maybe we need to have things a little bit more "niche", and direct people to quality websites. Why in 2018 was there the need to rely on craigslist for hookups, when there's sites like rentmen and Adam that do a little better job allowing users to get an idea of each other before meeting?

 

Of course I'm not happy about what has happened, but trust...we will rise above it. What I don't Like, is websites going into panic mode like after the rentboy scare, and unnecessarily moderating ads to excess. Like Adam4adam has already cropped my pics to not show dick or underwear on first page.

 

They're a dating/porn advertising site that makes money from porn or paid advertisers. Hopefully they don't come with the bullshit again like they did couple years ago.

[bostonman]

Websites come and go. I don't think we necessarily need limitless options for sex. Maybe we need to have things a little bit more "niche", and direct people to quality websites. Why in 2018 was there the need to rely on craigslist for hookups, when there's sites like rentmen and Adam that do a little better job allowing users to get an idea of each other before meeting?

 

Of course I'm not happy about what has happened, but trust...we will rise above it. What I don't Like, is websites going into panic mode like after the rentboy scare, and unnecessarily moderating ads to excess. Like Adam4adam has already cropped my pics to not show dick or underwear on first page.

 

They're a dating/porn advertising site that makes money from porn or paid advertisers. Hopefully they don't come with the bullshit again like they did couple years ago.

 

Agreed.

 

I think the huge unknown at this point is what the ISP's will do. If they deem it prudent to block a bunch of sites, that's that. What exactly will their criteria be?

 

I tend to agree with those who feel that the trafficking issues they're after are ultimately more in the hetero world - I don't think that there's necessarily a "gay agenda" here, and we may be lucky enough to find that they'll leave the gay sites alone for the most part. Don't forget that sites like Craigslist (and Backpage before it) cater to all sexuality - this wasn't a specifically gay-related shutdown. So it may indeed be that the only things that will affect us will be the sites that cater to all sexualities.

 

At least I have my fingers crossed for that.

[Nvr2Thick]

Why in 2018 was there the need to rely on craigslist for hookups, when there's sites like rentmen and Adam that do a little better job allowing users to get an idea of each other before meeting?

 

Craigslist was much more immediate, and free. A provider could spin up an ad in five minutes, and take it down immediately. It's a little bit like comparing a restaurant to a food truck. There was, however, plenty of opportunity to get to know each other depending on how much communication was permitted by the provider.

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but providers advertising through Craigslist personals had the advantage of posting alongside guys who were just looking to hook up -- kind of like A4A. A client looking on Rentmen has made up his mind to look for an escort. Craigslist providers had the potential to capture the interest of guys who had been surfing for a hookup ad for hours, and who stumbled across an ad looking for "generous only" and might consider it.

 

Back when Craigslist had their "Erotic Services" section I met quite a few great escorts who weren't trying to market a persona or build a career out of it. Often the guys were more humble and down to earth, and just oversexed guys. It felt to me more like if I had gotten real lucky on a hookup than if I was paying for a guy who was otherwise out of my league. Once the Erotic Services section closed the appearance of provider ads in the personals felt like an intrusion to me.

[Samfoslom]

New and better sites came instead

Jock2go

Rentboy.pro

Mintboys

i just tried to dial up mintboys.com and it didn't load. i cant find it through google. is it gone?

[bostonman]

i just tried to dial up mintboys.com and it didn't load. i cant find it through google. is it gone?

 

I just tried it - it's still there. And I found it on google as well. Maybe your browser is having issues? (I'm on chrome if it matters.) Don't panic, lol.

[Samfoslom]

I just tried it - it's still there. And I found it on google as well. Maybe your browser is having issues? (I'm on chrome if it matters.) Don't panic, lol.

yes, it turned out to be an issue on my end.

[MikeBiDude]

i just tried to dial up mintboys.com and it didn't load

You know these don’t work anymore, right?

[gallahadesquire]

You know these don’t work anymore, right?

Since I don't have on, I'm not entirely sure, but I had a friend who had a dial phone in 2004 that still worked. If they're going to charge for Touch Tone , then they have to have a no-charge alternative, and my Tibetan throat singing isn't that good.

[+ GregM]

 

Of course I'm not happy about what has happened, but trust...we will rise above it. What I don't Like, is websites going into panic mode like after the rentboy scare, and unnecessarily moderating ads to excess. Like Adam4adam has already cropped my pics to not show dick or underwear on first page.

 

They're a dating/porn advertising site that makes money from porn or paid advertisers. Hopefully they don't come with the bullshit again like they did couple years ago.

 

Are you allowed to have the naughty pics as locked pics or does the site still crop them?

 

Hugs,

Greg

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

You know these don’t work anymore, right?

 

 

Have YOU ever tried texting on a rotary phone?

 

It's a real bitch.

[Mocha]

Craigslist was much more immediate, and free. A provider could spin up an ad in five minutes, and take it down immediately. It's a little bit like comparing a restaurant to a food truck. There was, however, plenty of opportunity to get to know each other depending on how much communication was permitted by the provider.

 

I'm not saying this is a good thing, but providers advertising through Craigslist personals had the advantage of posting alongside guys who were just looking to hook up -- kind of like A4A. A client looking on Rentmen has made up his mind to look for an escort. Craigslist providers had the potential to capture the interest of guys who had been surfing for a hookup ad for hours, and who stumbled across an ad looking for "generous only" and might consider it.

 

Back when Craigslist had their "Erotic Services" section I met quite a few great escorts who weren't trying to market a persona or build a career out of it. Often the guys were more humble and down to earth, and just oversexed guys. It felt to me more like if I had gotten real lucky on a hookup than if I was paying for a guy who was otherwise out of my league. Once the Erotic Services section closed the appearance of provider ads in the personals felt like an intrusion to me.

 

Oh absolutely. I wish they would have kept erotic services. I'm not negating the benefits craigslist has (or had...or maybe one day will have again ) I couldn't tell you how much I made off of there. I was using it since 2010, when an amateur escort in San Antonio told me about it. I mean, when the erotic section was there, I was pulling guys left and right. It was the way to pull straight, seasonally gay curious guys. Even up until last year, craigslist was good for spur of the moment arrangements.

 

However, I found the latest version of Craigslist to be a majority medium market west coast thing. As far as I know, only a few select areas were still profitable to use it in. Phoenix being one of them. Florida, no.

 

It's just that there's more resources out there now. Let's get off the newspaper ads, and onto something else. No need to hide behind closet doors. But what are we going to do, to rise above this? We can't let all these apps take our clients. Those sites are so full of games as it is, and there's blocks on those that also need to be removed too.

 

All I can say is, fight. Fight. Fight. Fight. Shutdown D.C. for a week. Plaster signs saying NO SESTA on every building. Shut it DOWN. America doesn't deserve its freedom title, if it's going to be known again for oppression. If you can't even fucking be who you are in the privacy of your home on the Internet, what's next?

 

At the same time, maybe we don't need to panic. Maybe what needs to happen, is await clarification. It's not law yet, just a bill. Sex trafficking and escorting are 2 different things. And it needs to be clear that the average escort is not being forced against their will.

 

That would be like saying everyone on Grindr is participating in rape, and the site be liable for criminal charges for rape....due to there being anal sex going on. Bull fucking shit. So they can't say escorts advertising online are trafficking people against their will, just because it's money involved.

 

Are you allowed to have the naughty pics as locked pics or does the site still crop them?

 

Hugs,

Greg

 

Apparently it's just the main profile pic, according to chat with customer service. But this literally just started the other day.

[+ tassojunior]

Reddit has also deleted all subReddits on escorts, etc. now.

 

And of course MassuerFinder deleted all providers' shirtless photos 2 days ago. This has really hurt business for my friends who work off MF.

[BasketBaller]

I probably was naïve, but I didn't realize the craigslist personals involved escorting. I hooked up a few times some years ago, and it was always travelling businessmen in hotels, probably many of them married. I guess closeted guys don't get much chance to hone their skills, because most of them were disappointing experiences, which led me to stick to escorts after that. I didn't realize I could have found them there. (Yes, I noticed ads looking for generou$ guys but didn't think of them as pros.)

[bostonman]

I probably was naïve, but I didn't realize the craigslist personals involved escorting. I hooked up a few times some years ago, and it was always travelling businessmen in hotels, probably many of them married. I guess closeted guys don't get much chance to hone their skills, because most of them were disappointing experiences, which led me to stick to escorts after that. I didn't realize I could have found them there. (Yes, I noticed ads looking for generou$ guys but didn't think of them as pros.)

 

In my experience, it was only the "generou$" ads, but that counts, of course. I don't know of any professional male/male escorts who were blatantly using the site for advertising. There could have been more aggressive use of that in the straight ads, I don't know.

 

I tend to think that CL relied on its users as self-moderators, rather than anyone from the site being in charge of ad content. One could flag an ad as inappropriate - for many reasons, but certainly any nod to "$" could result in a flag. I suppose that CL felt it was easier to shut down the entire personals category rather than to take a more aggressive approach towards policing the site.

 

In my experience, in about 2 years of using CL for hookups, I would say that I got more responses asking me if I was generous than I saw ads that hinted at pay for play, though I certainly did see some of those too. Perhaps CL shut down the ads for that reason - that they knew readers were soliciting more than the posters were.

 

In any case, my own experience is that the "$" ads/responses were not a HUGE part of things, proportionally - but it was certainly there. And if this is going to be a zero tolerance law once it is signed, I guess CL felt the only was to fix potential legal issues was just to throw out the baby with the bathwater.

[Dave]

gosh - what a strange feeling I have.

 

I went to pay for my m4rn ad today - something I've actually grappled with doing more than a few times over the years. and realized - it's gone. I kind of feel like the house fell on the wicked witch of the west. man, those people running it were really difficult to deal with! as an escort, dealing with them ranged from poor communication, to heaps of attitude, to their refusing to publish ads - as well as refusing to tell us why (that was shit they pulled 6 and 8 years ago). their advertising prices were too high, and they refused to let us share parts about ourselves that would make it easy for the end user (people interested in hiring) to make decisions. at various times over the years, we couldn't list our rates, our interests (I mean even words like "vanilla" were banned), our naked photos, our contact details, and of course, our websites. to add to all that, if an escort ceased advertising with them, they would not remove his ad. instead, the guy's ad stayed up... people would reach out to contact him with the "contact me" button, but m4rn held the messages, until that escort paid up again! result was that good people who reached out to an escort (many no doubt already having a high emotional challenge in doing so, for various reasons) got no reply from said escort. it would have seemed that the escort was blowing the potential client off!

this fukkin' killed me. obviously not all clients are so fragile in their shopping, but I've had a fair number of men and women with low self esteem. when they contacted me, they were ready for me to tell them I didn't want to see them. I'm proud to say I never actually felt like that at the outset, with anyone... but I know this shit can be hard for some. my point is that what men4rentnow did was a true disservice to the industry.

 

now, how does an escort advertise himself, when there's only a few platforms that are truly well known? y'all can see where I'm going with this... to me, advertising on m4rn didn't really seem like a choice. we chose to suck it up (no pun there) and deal with a bunch of dickheads who (rumor had it) were straight, and judging frrom their behavior, excessively money-focused.

 

ultimately, I'm glad they're gone. I'm not glad about how another golden age of freer sexual pursuits seems to be historically marked - much like the demise of 42nd street... or the closing chapter on gay cruising in the 1970s... or the end of a certain kind of porn lifestyle in the 1980s. or the key parties of the 1950s... wait, did those things ever really exist?

 

anyway. Mocha, I like your take on this... it's rather evolutionary, which isn't really an angle I'd have pegged you for in the past. well, one thing is true - all things do change.

 

short term, I'm challenged a bit, because I was planning on using the wicked witch to advertise my upcoming USA tour. I doubt it'll hurt me much, but I feel for my brothers who relied on m4rn for a signifcant portion of their income. god, when will this industry get decriminalized??? it would help workers and hirers alike in so many ways... and financially, it would help the nation, too. but there's just too much "morality" still in play.

 

as I write this, the sun's going down over the rice field, and I'm tapping this out on my laptop on my hanging bamboo-and-glass table. many of you know I travel all over the world for clients... but did you know you can also come see me here in bali? let's spend some time together, and let me show you this amazing island... and some other things, too

 

 

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Edited April 3, 2018 by Dave

[+ sync]

god, when will this industry get decriminalized??? it would help workers and hirers alike in so many ways... and financially, it would help the nation, too. but there's just too much "morality" still in play.

 

And there it is. Contractual intimacy between consenting adults is intolerable, so let's put a self-proclaimed sex offender into the Oval Office to represent our country's "morality" to the rest of the world.