Goodbye Matt Lauer....

[Kenny]

Cynic that I have become, I am waiting for the royal tweet about "failing NBC News" and Lauer's demise. I can't imagine that the moron who can throw out a "pocohontas" slur during an honor ceremony for American Indians and retweet anti-Muslim videos will be able to resist.

He already has. They’re quoted in this thread, above.

[TruthBTold]

I think that these very public cases are just the beginning and the media is informing the public about the those cases that are the most apparent. This is a very good thing because it will both show who caused the damage but more importantly force us to set up a process to deal with allegations. Not every allegation is true. However, we as a society have to make sure that the "accusers" can air their grievances and feel safe about the things that surround those grievances, e.g. physical and job safety. At the same time we must begin to set up processes to protect those who are accused. While we have given it a start (a very, very small start) it is so pervasive that it is going to take decades to make small inroads into breaking down the barriers. A good start would be more women in the upper echelons of power in both government and business. And much of the problem exists in our American culture writ large. Girls and women are treated differently and open to much less opportunity. All that has to change. Having a self-professed sexual assaulter as the country's president does not help but finally airing a bit of the dirty laundry in Hollywood, business, and government does. All hands on deck.

[LaffingBear]

Your post actually made me feel good, in the sense that this is how change works. There is no easy or simple or clean way to do change.

I am more skeptical about the potential for genuine attitudinal and value change. I acknowledge that behavioral change is a start.

 

I suppose its a good thing if guys dont harass women, or guys, because they'll get reported. Because they'll get in trouble. But I doubt any of what's playing out will change attitudes. In fact, I suspect it'll become another point of musing about political correctness.

 

While the situations are not at all similar, I cant help noting some similarities to the challenges of racism in America. We removed the Confederate flag from most public spaces. We're engaged in, or even distracted by, a debate about confederate statues. Cops wear body-cams so that they are aware they can get caught and/or disciplined if caught in inappropriate actions. People in poorer communities have learned to use phones to record everything, because the prospect of "gotcha" works.... but it also perpetuates distrust.

 

But we really arent doing anything to level the playing field, to ensure equal access to opportunity, for all people. We arent even able to have a serious, unemotional societal conversation about bigotry.

[LaffingBear]

Cynic that I have become, I am waiting for the royal tweet about "failing NBC News" and Lauer's demise. I can't imagine that the moron who can throw out a "pocohontas" slur during an honor ceremony for American Indians and retweet anti-Muslim videos will be able to resist.

I suspect even the A-hole In Chief knows to stay away... because of the allegations against him. Hes said nothing about Hollywood moguls or Democrat Congressmen.

 

Furthermore, this issue doesnt pander to his base

 

EDIT: WOW, I GOT THAT WRONG! Even my cynicism is no match for the behaviors of POTUS (Petulant Obnoxious Threatening Ultra-Scumbag)

Edited November 29, 2017 by LaffingBear

[+ stevenkesslar]

In fact, I suspect it'll become another point of musing about political correctness.

 

Good points.

 

The other word that needs to be thrown in is this..................."generational."

 

This is a little bit like the revenge of the women. Remember when Madeline Albright tried to shame women into voting for Hillary? Well a lot of women said, "Nope." My guess is that women of a certain age - like Gloria Steinem's era - may see things one way. Younger women may see it very differently. Put in the terms you used, for a lot of older people there is this debate about "political correctness." And the phrase itself sort of suggests, "I know I'm supposed to feel this way because it's the correct way to think, but I don't really feel that way." Because I'm older, and know mostly older people, I agree with you that there is a tremendous gap in real life conversations between what is "politically correct" and how many older Americans actually feel. The fact that Trump is President is a great indicator of the size of the huge gap between what is PC, and what people really think. Trump won the Presidency by essentially bellowing. "Fuck y'all with this PC bullshit!"

 

Among younger Americans - who loved Sanders and voted overwhelmingly against Trump - things may look very different. I tend to think, in part based on reading mountains of polls, that they don't see these things as "politically correct." They just see them as "correct." What many older people mouth as "PC bullshit" is what younger people actually believe. Probably this idea about safe workplaces and zero tolerance for sexual harassment is a good example of a generation gap, if not a generation abyss.

 

Of course, not all Millennials voted for Clinton. So maybe there are a lot of younger guys who are also viewing this whole thing as enforced and unfair PC bullshit. I don't know any of that cohort. And even if they feel that way my guess is that they are going to learn slowly but surely that they better keep their mouths shut and their hands to themselves.

[john1973]

Oh, Matt, you should have just asked me if you needed some loving. I would have dropped everything to help a bud in need, including you. If you need a shoulder to cry on, please call me.

[Kenny]

Oh, Matt, you should have just asked me if you needed some loving. I would have dropped everything to help a bud in need, including you. If you need a shoulder to cry on, please call me.

Apparently we will never learn that sexual gratification is not the goal or the point of this abuse.

[+ stevenkesslar]

This poll was done in the UK, but it's the cleanest example I could find quickly of what poll after poll after poll says about global Millennial culture, and the huge generation gap between younger and older people.

 

It's a stretch to say that older men who are more "completely masculine" feel that "locker room talk" is fine, and, hey, why not just grab that pussy if you want to? But my guess is the attitudes go, shall we say, hand in hand.

 

It also may be that "completely feminine" women of a certain age just learned to keep their mouths shut and take it, whereas "less feminine" younger women are turning out to be a little bit more aggressive in fighting back.

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/05/13/low-young-masculinity-britain/

Edited November 29, 2017 by stevenkesslar

[Kenny]

This poll was done in the UK, but it's the cleanest example I could find quickly of what poll after poll after poll says about global Millennial culture, and the huge generation gap between younger and older people.

 

It's a stretch to say that older men who are more "completely masculine" feel that "locker room talk" is fine, and, hey, why not just grab that pussy if you want to? But my guess is the attitudes go, shall we say, hand in hand.

 

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/05/13/low-young-masculinity-britain/

 

“Dear Friends in these days of modern time,

when you can’t tell the AC’s from the DC’s,

well aren’t we all yearning for someone who can turn on a little stopping power? ”

Firesign Theater, 1970

[Kenny]

“So now that Matt Lauer is gone when will the Fake News practitioners at NBC be terminating the contract of Phil Griffin? And will they terminate low ratings Joe Scarborough based on the “unsolved mystery” that took place in Florida years ago? Investigate!”

This Trump tweet is now gone. I wonder whether Gen. Kelly also flushed Trump’s phone down the toilet? Exploiting the tragic death of a young woman is sort of un-presidential. Unless you’re Bozo, jacking off to your stock portfolio.

[EZEtoGRU]

Well I guess Mrs. Lauer is soon to have a big payday. Good for her.

[+ FreshFluff]

It's also possible that the 18-30 group feel that it's not socially acceptable to themselves as "completely feminine."

[+ azdr0710]

well, I'll just throw in that I never-ever thought Lauer was a hard-hitting, serious journalist......always seemed very light and airy to me from the beginning.....even when he had the occasional interviews with big names, it all seemed highly staged and scripted.....sorta like a college frat boy trying to look all serious, but very obviously would rather be somewhere else......

 

always wondered whether he was just another example of getting by only on his looks....

 

http://www.broadcastpioneers.com/bp1/live2.jpg

[+ stevenkesslar]

And then for an opposing point of view:

 

'Toxic masculinity'? Dude, now America's universities are turning men into women

 

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/01/17/toxic-masculinity-dude-now-americas-universities-are-turning-men-into-women.html

 

"Brown University has a program titled, “Masculinity 101” – for “students who identify as men,” Campus Reform reports.

 

Get a load of the course description titled, “Unlearning Toxic Masculinity:”

 

A few years ago I conducted an unscientific poll to determine what the average American woman looks for in a man.

 

The poll results were not all that surprising. Ladies want a man who loves God and loves his family. They also want a man who, in no particular order:

 

1. Has a job;

 

2. Drives a pickup truck;

 

3. Uses the bathroom standing up;

 

4. Eats meat;

 

5. And is willing to carry them out of a burning building.

 

In other words -- they want the kind of man made in God's image -- not the image of some effeminate intellectual stuffed in skinny jeans sipping chai tea with his pinky finger extended."

 

Can you imagine a better description of the Fox News take on the war on masculinity? Is it just a coincidence that Fox is the place that spawned Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly? And smart conservative women like Gretchen Carlson and Megyn Kelly eventually got fed up and said, "Fuck y'all. I'm outta here!"

 

Here's a confession about my inner bitch, that I let come out at certain times.

 

This speaks to decades of my experience as an escort and a landlord, relating to the idea that you just have to let some people's fucked up attitudes gradually lead them to failure. It's not so much wishing people harm, it's more that you just let their fucked up attitudes lead where they inevitably lead, which is failure. For example, as an escort, there were certain clients that were their own worst enemies. Like they just sucked at communicating what they wanted. So I knew what was happening, as it was happening, and just let them flail around and walk away disappointed.

 

Right now I have a Black tenant who is both a nice person and a good tenant. But Section 8 (government assisted housing) changed the amount of rent she has to pay from $350 a month to $700 a month. So she can't figure that one out, and is moving out of a house that rents for $1350 a month, which for years she actually only paid $350 of. In other words, the actual amount of rent she has to pay - even at $700 - is something any other tenant I have would kill for. And she just can't figure it out. She and her two daughters are going to live with her mother. I tried to talk her into the concept that she might want to actually go do something to be able to pay $700 a month in rent - $700 a month is pretty cheap rent for a nice 3 bedroom house worth $300,000. But she's committed to her own path, in my view. And it is about attitude. So she'll move out and I'll rent the house to someone else and get about $1550 a month in rent. I'll come out smelling like a rose, and she'll be the loser, as will her kids, perhaps.

 

My point is that it is sad to look at people who seem to be their own worst enemies, because they have really fucked up attitudes. I factor in that maybe I'm arrogant and maybe I don't know it all. But it just seems like some people make really fucked up choices that they don' have to make.

 

So this is playing out on an epic scale with these young White men who love Trump and hate college because they think it is where you go to learn how to grow a vagina or something. Because the reality is that it is where you go to get skills and jobs. All the data show overwhelmingly that if you want to succeed in today's economy, it isn't really about the idea that you carry women out of burning buildings. Then after saving women from fires you go to the gym and get buff and brag in the locker room about how that woman you saved begged you to grab her pussy, or something like that. In reality, though, it's about the idea of dragging your ass to class, and then across a stage to get a college diploma.

 

There seem to be many, many, many men who seem to be in utter denial of that reality. They are behaving like my Black female tenant, or worse, and they don't even have racism or sexism to blame for their problems. They are White men, damn it! And I'm going to spend the rest of my life looking a lit bit down on them, and the miseries and addictions they brought on themselves. If they vote for Trump and complain about all this PC bullshit, good for them. That won't get them a good job or a satisfied life, though. At the heart of "Make America Great Again" is a cesspool of male unhappiness.

 

There. Now you've all seen my inner bitch. I consider it part of my feminine side.

Edited November 29, 2017 by stevenkesslar

[samhexum]

Are we all forgetting that Lauer was also a victim of sexual harassment? Don't you remember Grace Adler touched his ass at Karen Walker's (broadcast-live) party?

[+ stevenkesslar]

Exactly...

 

Although it is not in this video clip, Stephanie Ruhle ended her show this morning tearing up over Matt Lauer. Like Weinstein, he apparently was a known predator, using his power to control the women he abused.

 

I don't disagree, but I'd be a little more empathetic to the women involved.

 

For the ones who are the victims of the harassment, there is this self-blaming game that has been perpetuated culturally. It was really interesting to watch Leeann Tweeden. On balance, I quickly grew to have a lot of respect for her. And part of the reason why is nuance and transparency. She comes off as a strong woman with strong values and a great family, but you could also feel her pain as she spoke out. And she wasn't on a rampage to just destroy Franken in particular or men in general.

 

For the ones who are not the victims, it's got to be even more nuanced. Denial is a powerful thing. Nobody who works with somebody for years wants to see them as an abuser or an asshole.

 

I don't think we should assume it's only men who are learning from this. I got the sense from watching Leeann Tweeden that she in particular and women in general are learning something from this, too. I think the tears and confusion and vulnerability and transparency are real.

[bostonman]

Indeed. This is tough for everyone - those involved, those who are close to the victims and the perpetrators, and those of us who are seeing household name celebs and others in a new and horrible light.

 

Garrison Keillor has also just been accused and fired.

[Jakeenct]

Given the history of sexual antics dear leader Trump has engaged in, I wonder when the finger pointing at him will resume!

[+ stevenkesslar]

Given the history of sexual antics dear leader Trump has engaged in, I wonder when the finger pointing at him will resume!

 

This will sound like psychobabble, but I think every one of these men fell because of Trump. Corporate Shill keeps saying, and he's right, that a lot of this shit happened before Trump. Millions of people lost homes. Wages didn't increase. Factory jobs went away under W. and stayed away under Obama. Millions of people got addicted to opioids. And meanwhile there was all this sexual harassment stuff that was going on everywhere, and even more hidden.

 

The good thing about Trump is that somehow his Presidency seems to be about exposing everything that is ugly about America. In a weird way, he is holding a mirror to the nation, and tens of millions of people don't like what they see.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I think that these very public cases are just the beginning and the media is informing the public about the those cases that are the most apparent. This is a very good thing because it will both show who caused the damage but more importantly force us to set up a process to deal with allegations. Not every allegation is true. However, we as a society have to make sure that the "accusers" can air their grievances and feel safe about the things that surround those grievances, e.g. physical and job safety. At the same time we must begin to set up processes to protect those who are accused. While we have given it a start (a very, very small start) it is so pervasive that it is going to take decades to make small inroads into breaking down the barriers. A good start would be more women in the upper echelons of power in both government and business. And much of the problem exists in our American culture writ large. Girls and women are treated differently and open to much less opportunity. All that has to change. Having a self-professed sexual assaulter as the country's president does not help but finally airing a bit of the dirty laundry in Hollywood, business, and government does. All hands on deck.

 

And another thing that needs to be sorted out, that will take decades......................."legacy."

 

I'm mixing in this article on Conyers to make a point:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/11/28/politics/john-conyers-push-to-resign/index.html

 

Several black caucus members in talks with Conyers to get him to resign

"A staffer to a member of the Congressional Black Caucus told CNN that "there is a feeling among some of our members that we need to protect his legacy," noting that Conyers is a founding member of the group and was a leading figure in the civil rights movement."

 

I think it's way too early in the game to sort out what impact this will have on the legacy of men like Bill Clinton and John Conyers.

 

With Bill Cosby, who I was never a huge fan of, I for one don't think of him as a ground-breaking Black comedian anymore. I just think of him as a disgusting, evil human being.

 

I get the fact that many Millennials who weren't around for 1992 see Bill Clinton as a predator. Period. And Hillary as the wife who enabled him. Period. But as an older liberal Democrat, I don't want to view Clinton and Conyers as just being assholes.

 

I think part of the reason it would be good for the Clintons and Conyers to just go away now is so that history can redeem the parts of their legacy that are good. Arguably, that happened with Bill Clinton already. Whether you ask historians or just regular people in polls, he stands out as one of the better Presidents when it comes to the economy. But overall, he is ranked in the middle, because his sex scandals dragged him down.

[TruthBTold]

And then for an opposing point of view: . . . .

 

3. Uses the bathroom standing up;

 

. . . . .

 

There. Now you've all seen my inner bitch. I consider it part of my feminine side.

 

Are there actually still men that use the bathroom standing up? As my grandma used to say, "Why stand when you can sit?"

[+ WilliamM]

Given that Lauer’s long-term philandering was a poorly kept secret, and given that lots of reporters at other news outlets (NYT, HuffPo, etc.) had been working on the story for many months, how is it that Savannah, Koda and the others boo-hooing on the TV about the ousting of their dear friend Matt are so shocked and surprised?

 

If a person in a senior position is sexually involved with someone whom he/she knows at work, usually most people there have some knowledge. Multiple times = everyone knows.

[+ HornyRetiree]

If I was Al Franken etc etc etc... my only response would be....I will go in front of an Ethics Committee (or resign) when Trump does.

 

ABSOLUTELY -- The Pussy Grabber does NOT get a free pass!

[+ HornyRetiree]

Oh, Matt, you should have just asked me if you needed some loving. I would have dropped everything to help a bud in need, including you. If you need a shoulder to cry on, please call me.

it has been rumored for years that he enjoysM2M

[john1973]

it has been rumored for years that he enjoysM2M

 

He will surely enjoy my enthusiastic minstrations! ;-)