Getting Ripped Off By A Client

[Mocha]

I think @OliverSaks gets it right @Mocha

 

 

And also I'm not Buddhist, but if you wanna get religious, I can post quotes and verses all night:

 

 

http://www.warrencampdesign.com/heartyBoys/corinthians/letter1a/images/1Corinthians.7.23_lg.jpg

Edited February 28, 2017 by Mocha

[coriolis888]

[uSER=7071]

 

Junior, you are entitled to feel violated if you wish, but comparing your situation to rape does not sit well with me. You were fine providing your service to this client for x$ before the situation and during the situation, but then after because the money was x-60$ it became rape? I don't think that is really how it works. I don't intend to tell you how to feel, because again, I'm sorry you were shorted and I know that sucks, but I think giving the situation that much weight isn't going to be helpful to you.

 

Tell your story to a survivor of sexual assault or a violent crime (I am at least one of those) and be prepared for such a big eye roll or jaw drop that the person's anatomy might be irrevocably damaged.

 

[/uSER]

[uSER=7071]

 

+ 1[/user]

[Mocha]

[uSER=7071]

 

+ 1[/user]

 

-1= Zero.

 

I have to add also that Ooollliver BALLsacks (hey, I just made a good catch phrase for him if he chooses to use it) comparison of a survivor of sexual assault/violent crime is kinda condescending as well.

 

People always want to throw in a big fish in a little pond, to make it look like there's more water than there actually is, once said big fish is being looked at in hindsight. Bullcrap. Or bullCarp since we're talking about fish.

 

Why he feels like a rape or assault victim would be pompously offended is beyond me. Everyone has their different views and opinions. I've been in all sorts of situations, but if someone is getting fucked in every which way from Sunday (not to say that's what happened with the O.P.) with the expectation of an agreed amount and doesn't receive it, that's at the very least a ripoff.

 

If Comcast, Verizon, or any other business swiped $60 off a customer for no reason....They'd be running to post their first review on Consumer Affairs with something along the lines of, "RAPED". And I doubt it involved a role play scene of the Big Black cable man coming into the unlocked door of the little white twinky dad. And that same customer who hired the OP probably uses one of those companies or their competitor.

[Despardo]

-1= Zero.

 

I have to add also that Ooollliver BALLsacks (hey, I just made a good catch phrase for him if he chooses to use it) comparison of a survivor of sexual assault/violent crime is kinda condescending as well.

 

People always want to throw in a big fish in a little pond, to make it look like there's more water than there actually is, once said big fish is being looked at in hindsight. Bullcrap. Or bullCarp since we're talking about fish.

 

Why he feels like a rape or assault victim would be pompously offended is beyond me. Everyone has their different views and opinions. I've been in all sorts of situations, but if someone is getting fucked in every which way from Sunday (not to say that's what happened with the O.P.) with the expectation of an agreed amount and doesn't receive it, that's at the very least a ripoff.

 

If Comcast, Verizon, or any other business swiped $60 off a customer for no reason....They'd be running to post their first review on Consumer Affairs with something along the lines of, "RAPED". And I doubt it involved a role play scene of the Big Black cable man coming into the unlocked door of the little white twinky dad. And that same customer who hired the OP probably uses one of those companies or their competitor.

 

Nope, no anger here.

[LookingAround]

If you're still feeling violated, @Mocha isn't off the mark.

 

Oh yes he is.

[LookingAround]

What are you talking about? Where does this holding onto anger piece come in at? Did I say anything about holding onto anger?

 

Ummm...you didn't have to. It's obvious to everyone but you.

[Mocha]

Ummm...you didn't have to. It's obvious to everyone but you.

 

Whats obvious is you wasting your time addressing me. With a question mark for an avatar, I wont waste mine addressing you. So go on and keep looking around, but not for trouble because you don't want it here with me.

 

Nope, no anger here.

 

Actually that WAS meant to be construed as such.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Mocha

[MikeBiDude]

Whats obvious is you wasting your time addressing me. With a question mark for an avatar, I wont waste mine addressing you. So go on and keep looking around, but not for trouble because you don't want it here with me.

 

 

 

Actually that WAS meant to be construed as such.

Ticking clock until @Mocha once again announces his departure from these forum!

[Mocha]

Ticking clock until @Mocha once again announces his departure from these forum!

 

Itch please. No one is running me off anywhere. If i do decide to depart it'll be a personal decision out of my own accord.

 

Why can't you just stick to the topic, instead of all over my balls like Oliver "all over ball" Saks? And for those "liking" such posts, grow a pair and stop playing cheerleader with your lil pom pom. If you have nothing to say, keep it moving.

[escortrod]

Why can't you just stick to the topic, instead of all over my balls like Oliver "all over ball" Saks? And for those "liking" such posts, grow a pair and stop playing cheerleader with your lil pom pom. If you have nothing to say, keep it moving or speak like a man.

Given that I'm the only person to have liked the quoted post, I assume that was directed at me.

 

I dislike your unrelenting negativity and rudeness. I'm at liberty to 'like' any post that I wish.

[Mocha]

Given that I'm the only person to have liked the quoted post, I assume that was directed at me.

 

I dislike your unrelenting negativity and rudeness. I'm at liberty to 'like' any post that I wish.

 

That's a personal issue, specifically yours. You aren't disliking my negativity, you're disliking the fact that I call out on the negativity. You don't know me at all to even address me.

 

The whole nucleus and core of this thread is negative and wasn't created by me. But bet your ass if it was, y'all hoes would have some ish to say.

 

Everything isn't la la land and made for Oscar's moment. What I'm tired of is you and everybody else's unrelenting labeling of me. Fix that first. Don't try to fix me. Get the dick out your eye before calling out the speck in mine.

[YoungAD]

That's a personal issue, specifically yours. You aren't disliking my negativity, you're disliking the fact that I call out on the negativity. You don't know me at all to even address me.

 

The whole nucleus and core of this thread is negative and wasn't created by me. But bet your ass if it was, y'all hoes would have some ish to say.

 

Everything isn't la la land and made for Oscar's moment. What I'm tired of is you and everybody else's unrelenting labeling of me. Fix that first. Don't try to fix me. Get the dick out your eye before calling out the speck in mine.

 

If I am not mistaken, you retired from the Forum because of all the negativity. Perhaps you should take another, longer break.

[MikeBiDude]

Itch please. No one is running me off anywhere. If i do decide to depart it'll be a personal decision out of my own accord.

 

Why can't you just stick to the topic, instead of all over my balls like Oliver "all over ball" Saks? And for those "liking" such posts, grow a pair and stop playing cheerleader with your lil pom pom. If you have nothing to say, keep it moving.

[bigvalboy]

Is anybody counting the "Likes"

[Mocha]

If I am not mistaken, you retired from the Forum because of all the negativity. Perhaps you should take another, longer break.

 

Exactly. Thankyou for rephrasing that. It's not my negativity. It's the forum's negativity and over insensitivity.

 

Again, if I do leave it'll be because I'm tired of defending myself everytime someone has a quibble about something I have to say. I'm turning 30 this year, I'm getting too old for this shit. And y'all old farts are too old for that shit. Here I am offering the O.P. an mutual experience and how to deal and remedy it (minus the busted Windows part, which if we all be real...gays can be pretty vindictive. I've heard of worse things but I always try to take the high road and live and let live and also have improved greatly on not allowing myself to fall prey to such situations), and now this whole thread has turned into a bitch hunt about me being the center of the issue. I could have just continued on with my vacation instead of offering my assistance.

Edited March 2, 2017 by Mocha

[YoungAD]

if I do leave

 

But you have left. Repeatedly.

[Mount N Do]

I understand what you're saying and wasn't trying to negate his loss, but getting paid something is far less painful than being stiffed 100%. I too hope that no one experiences such a thing.

 

A word of caution to anyone that visits and works in SF. There's a younger Asian guy here that has stiffed MANY guys with bad checks.

I have to believe that anyone who uses a check as a form of payment for escort services is suspect.

[BabyBoomer]

Another new name?

 

www.rentmen.com/Jarrod_Brandon

 

~Boomer ~

[YoungAD]

Exactly. Thankyou for rephrasing that. It's not my negativity. It's the forum's negativity and over insensitivity.

 

Again, if I do leave it'll be because I'm tired of defending myself everytime someone has a quibble about something I have to say. I'm turning 30 this year, I'm getting too old for this shit. And y'all old farts are too old for that shit. Here I am offering the O.P. an mutual experience and how to deal and remedy it (minus the busted Windows part, which if we all be real...gays can be pretty vindictive. I've heard of worse things but I always try to take the high road and live and let live and also have improved greatly on not allowing myself to fall prey to such situations), and now this whole thread has turned into a bitch hunt about me being the center of the issue. I could have just continued on with my vacation instead of offering my assistance.

 

Your negativity belongs to you and you alone.

[RussJohnson]

[uSER=12155]@Dominiking[/uSER] It's never happened to me so I have no idea what I would do. I imagine most people wouldn't be bold enough to just say they aren't going to pay to your face. They are more likely to use tricks to get out of it (bad checks, stacks filled with ones, empty envelope, etc.), or run off (smoke break, going to the ATM, going to the bathroom, etc.) At that point there is not really much you can do and people like that generally aren't worth dealing with any longer than you have to, I would just leave. Violence or revenge will probably just come back to hurt you too in the end.

[AndreFuture]

Aword of caution to anyone that visits and works in SF. There's a younger Asian guy here that has stiffed MANY guys with bad checks.

 

That's like 20% of the population in SF, a rather large swath of people to be cautious of, don't you think?

 

Essentiallyif you argue that one has been raped because full payment was not rendered, you are also arguing that consent can he bought, which has all sorts of troubling consequences.

 

I think the argument is one has been raped because consent was given through negotiation, under specific circumstances, and those circumstances were intentionally violated (E.g., agree to a sexual encounter if it's only oral and instead got penetrated; agreed to a sexual encounter if it's compensated and instead there's no payment). I won't hijack this thread, but I would be interested in hearing more about these alleged troubling consequences, perhaps in another thread.

[escortrod]

I think the argument is one has been raped because consent was given through negotiation, under specific circumstances, and those circumstances were intentionally violated (E.g., agree to a sexual encounter if it's only oral and instead got penetrated; agreed to a sexual encounter if it's compensated and instead there's no payment). I won't hijack this thread, but I would be interested in hearing more about these alleged troubling consequences, perhaps in another thread.

I don't think that the equivalence you imply between forced vaginal or anal penetration and lack of payment is reasonable. In the first instance the nature of the act has not been consented to, where as it has in the latter instance. I.e. the victim in the first instance did not consent to be vaginally or anally penetrated at all. In the latter case the victim did consent to the sexual act(s), but the perpetrator failed to fulfil the terms of their bargain. The legal position in the UK is that in the latter situation the victim's consent was valid because (s)he understood the nature of, and assented to, the act(s) in question. That's not to say that a wrong was not perpetrated, but it doesn't qualify as rape.

 

The consequences of categorising the latter situation as rape are fairly obvious, I think. If it is accepted that consent can be vitiated by a failure of the other party to fulfil obligations, whether express or implied, then it is difficult to know where the line should be drawn. Should it only apply where there is a contract? If so, why, and what qualifies as a contract (e.g. would the terms of a marriage be relevant?) If non-contractual obligations were to be taken into account, the range of situations where somebody could legitimately claim they were raped are almost endless. Say that my boss strongly implied that I would be promoted if I slept with him. I might have a reasonable expectation of a promotion, but in the event that it was not forthcoming, a claim of rape seems inappropriate. Sexual harassment is more fitting.

[+ Lance_Navarro]

That's like 20% of the population in SF, a rather large swath of people to be cautious of, don't you think?

 

You are correct that there is a large Asian population in SF, for the sake of discussion, let's say 20%. I think most of us would agree that clients under 35 account for no more than 20% of our business. 20% of 20% is 4%. How many amongst that 4% do you think are going to write a check?

 

I don't think anyone took what I said to mean "Don't schedule with an Asian client while in SF". All I'm saying is that if you have a young Asian client, most likely either in SoMa or Dogpatch area, who tries to quickly sign and hand over a check as he rushes you out the door, DON'T TAKE IT! Oh, and tie him down and call me so I can get the other 4 people I know that he's cheated, to come over and get what's due to us.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Lance_Navarro

[Mocha]

Your negativity belongs to you and you alone.

 

I didn't intend for it to be negative. It was funny to me. I had a good, long laugh about it.

 

You made it negative, in your own mind in which you construed it, thus...the negativity belongs to you. Only you, the whole you, and nothing but you.

[Mocha]

So guys how would you react and feel if client stiffed you 100 percent like Lance said? Lets say you finish the session and the client says he doesn't have any money on him or he's not going to pay (and gives any excuse in the book) to avoid paying.. What would you do? Would you make a scene, beg and convince him, or just leave peacefully without getting your payment?

 

I know someone here claimed to do the opposite of everything I say, but if I'm still alive and well almost 10 years in the game, I think I have a little bit of street smarts and common sense. Just a little bit. Probably more than the MoFo who said it.

 

I've always had a belief in: I'd rather be (insert minor/major inconvenience) than dead or in jail. The recent passing of an old friend reminds me even more. Its not worth killing or crashing or going to jail over a temporary inconvenience. I also believe in doing unto others as...etc, etc.

 

Now, there's a story in which a person tried to do that to me years ago when I was kinda young. Tried to kick me out without paying. Too bad he didn't realize his Benzo keys were still in my pocket. After all, he wanted me to Chauffeur him to the ATM because he was too inebriated to do so on his own. Don't get it wrong, I've had guys give me their car keys and they weren't inebriated. But, I wasn't gonna steal his car...again, referring to the above paragraph. Though I'm sure he had a hard time finding it again.

 

The best measure is prevention. It's been a long, long time since someone has pulled that one...as in the 100% not wanting to pay. Now, I don't know if you're referring to being at your place or the client's place. That makes a difference. If it's your place, options are limited.

 

I can't say what I'd do in every situation, but if you're at their place and they try not to pay a large sum...dial 911. Because you just got robbed. As long as you didn't hit or assault anyone, the first person to dial 911 is the side the police is going to take first. The police don't care if you're an escort, because since you dialed 911, you're now the victim. That's how it works.

 

Don't say anything about the guy didn't pay you, only mention $200/$300 etc, etc. cash is missing/stolen while you were in the clients residence, and you need help finding it. You may not get the money (unless he actually has it, and police can be good at compelling people to do the right thing) but he'll think twice before he tries it again.

 

**Disclaimer** I would highly advise against the above if an escort is originally trying to scam the client in any way...such as not providing service, extreme unknown up charges, etc. You are more likely to lose the initial case with the officers. And that measure should never need to be deployed more than once or twice in a 5-10 year career span!

 

And be careful, unscrupulous men will try to pull the "I'm calling the police" tactic too. They may even try to do it first, thus making them the victim. In that case, it's important to maintain you were invited to the home by the client...

Edited March 12, 2017 by Mocha