Jump to content

When will we drop the phrase "first openly gay....."?


glennnn
This topic is 3360 days old and is no longer open for new replies.  Replies are automatically disabled after two years of inactivity.  Please create a new topic instead of posting here.  

Recommended Posts

Posted

I'm tired of hearing the phrase "first openly gay" whatever (pro hockey player, US Congressperson, Secretary of the Army, etc) whenever a gay or lesbian person achieves some signal honor, job or opportunity. It reminds me of the decades of "First African American" whatever. (First black, pro baseball player, first black opera star, first black congresswoman, etc) Why can't we just drop both descriptors, or a least drop "first and openly and just say "gay" or "black" if we must. I think it is demeaning, as if the person under discussion has had something to hide and being "open" is amazing and unusual. He is gay. She is lesbian. They are black. It's a fact, jack. Get over it!

  • Replies 35
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Posted

Unless one is describing a person who committed a crime and I need to be on the look out for a specfic person I could care less about gender, race, sexuality, hair color whateves.

 

Hugs,

Greg

Posted
...as if the person under discussion has had something to hide and being "open" is amazing and unusual. He is gay. She is lesbian. They are black. It's a fact, jack. Get over it!

 

A couple of things:

  1. Until very recently, a gay person would have to hide their sexual orientation while serving in the military. It is very unlikely that an out gay man or woman would be appointed and confirmed Secretary of the Army.
  2. It is a way to emphasize that a barrier has been broken.
  3. It is not that being open is amazing and unusual nor is it that they have to hide. Rather, it is recognizing that never before has an out gay person been appointed to a position or won a particular award.

Posted

It also suggests that the honor or job awarded was influenced by the candidate's skin color, or sexual identity rather than their qualifications or lack thereof. Perhaps, it's meant to show how far we've come.(Yay! We've put a minority in charge of something important!!) Or how far we've fallen, ("Shit, we've put a queer in charge of our young MEN), but either way it becomes a political statement that someone's using, instead of a simple fact.

Posted

Rwnsd@

 

I understand the reasons for the references, I just long for the day when it is no longer necessary. I am rarely referred to as the child of a Dutch immigrant, because no one cares. I long for the day when, gender, sexual I D, skin color, gender no longer HAS to be part of a personal description.

Posted

Rwnsd@

 

I don't disagree with you, but at 72, I am sick of the bullshit. Shirley Chisholm is still known as "the first black, woman in congress ,. Won't it be great when we elect the thirtieth or the hundredth bkack woman n congress and no one even notices, and Ms Chisholm becomes just a former member of Congress judged on her performance in office. I know I am disingenuous, but in my old age I still believe in the basic goodness of human beings.

Posted
I'm tired of hearing the phrase "first openly gay" whatever (pro hockey player, US Congressperson, Secretary of the Army, etc) whenever a gay or lesbian person achieves some signal honor, job or opportunity. It reminds me of the decades of "First African American" whatever. (First black, pro baseball player, first black opera star, first black congresswoman, etc) Why can't we just drop both descriptors, or a least drop "first and openly and just say "gay" or "black" if we must. I think it is demeaning, as if the person under discussion has had something to hide and being "open" is amazing and unusual. He is gay. She is lesbian. They are black. It's a fact, jack. Get over it!

 

When the only gay Republicans come out of the Log Cabin I'll drop that phrase.

Posted
I don't disagree with you, but at 72, I am sick of the bullshit. Shirley Chisholm is still known as "the first black, woman in congress ,. Won't it be great when we elect the thirtieth or the hundredth bkack woman n congress and no one even notices

 

Since the late 1940s, Maine has elected three moderate Republican women to the Senate: Smith, Snowe and Collins. Collins is still in the Senate and very old news to anyone who grew up in New England.

Posted
When the only gay Republicans come out of the Log Cabin I'll drop that phrase.

 

Lol. It's a deal! I don't mean to belittle the great strides we are making in accepting people for themselves. I just wish we could move faster. I hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near, and I want acceptance for us all before I exit!

Posted
Lol. It's a deal! I don't mean to belittle the great strides we are making in accepting people for themselves. I just wish we could move faster. I hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near, and I want acceptance for us all before I exit!

Which begs the question: are you "out?"

Posted
Which begs the question: are you "out?"

 

I am out to family and close friends, and would not deny it to any one who asked. Have I published it in the local Gazzette? No. Does that qualify as being out?

 

You know, I admire you, because you aren't afraid to ask the difficult questions that make me think. Thank you, bro.

Posted

Being out is an individual choice. I too an tired of hearing about the first gay this or the first black that or the first female other thing. I suppose it means something to someone but not to be. We have had a gay president, a black President and hopefully, the first female president. Her first initiative should be stopping the use of the "the first" and I will be the first white, Catholic, bi, male to support her.

Posted
Being out is an individual choice. I too an tired of hearing about the first gay this or the first black that or the first female other thing. I suppose it means something to someone but not to be. We have had a gay president, a black President and hopefully, the first female president. Her first initiative should be stopping the use of the "the first" and I will be the first white, Catholic, bi, male to support her.

I apologize for my deep ignorance of American history. Who was the gay president?

Posted
Coming out is a gradual process for many LGBTs.Not an all or none issue.

 

While the evidence on the Internet leans fairly strong toward James Buchanan as gay or asexual, help me out MsGuy. Is there any evidence beyond question that he was gay?

Posted

I would like to see an end to the gender divide, "this is what men do and this is what women do," in my lifetime (I'm 60, btw), but I don't expect it.

 

"The first" will start becoming passe when the first ones have many successors, but to drop it entirely ignores the struggle and courage it takes to be the first and the way it demonstrates that being out doesn't go hand in hand with terrible consequences. As it is, a college athlete coming out doesn't attract as much attention as occurred a few years ago. In fact, the case can be made that more strides have been made with respect to acceptance of gays and lesbians in the last 50 years than of racial, ethnic or gender differences.

 

I also suspect Rep. Chisholm, whom I once had the honor of hearing give a speech, would not want her accomplishments forgotten. She was proud to be the first black woman elected to Congress.

 

I, for one, do not want us to forget lest we backslide.

Posted
Is there any evidence beyond question that he was gay?

 

Not sure what might count as "evidence beyond question" of gayness, past or present. (As we on this forum have seen time and time again, such definitions can be quite -- um -- fluid.) And historians will likely continue to argue the meaning of Buchanan's life choices and the rumors that attended them. It is what historians do. That said, this bit from McSweeney's gives an apt rundown of what evidence there is and what it might (or might not) mean.

http://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/so-uh-james-buchanan-part-ii

Posted
I am out to family and close friends, and would not deny it to any one who asked. Have I published it in the local Gazzette? No. Does that qualify as being out?...

 

Most people will not ask. The question is, were you to be asked what you did on a weekend when you went out with your gay friends to the LGBT Film Festival would you say "I went to a movie" or say "I went to the LGBT Film Festival with friends."

 

My point in asking this is we will not be able to

 

...move faster. ...

 

until we are comfortable with our sexuality and actually live out.

 

Coming out is a gradual process for many LGBTs.Not an all or none issue.

 

Quite true. Note the OP wants us to

 

...move faster. ...

 

Hopefully, as a result of this thread, he will realize the folly of making that request. It will happen in due time.

Posted
I'm tired of hearing the phrase "first openly gay" whatever (pro hockey player, US Congressperson, Secretary of the Army, etc) whenever a gay or lesbian person achieves some signal honor, job or opportunity. It reminds me of the decades of "First African American" whatever. (First black, pro baseball player, first black opera star, first black congresswoman, etc) Why can't we just drop both descriptors, or a least drop "first and openly and just say "gay" or "black" if we must.

 

As long as the the media continues attempts to create scandalous headlines by outing celebrities, we need the positive reinforcement of individuals who can demonstrate success while being open about their LGBT identity.

 

As long as LGBT teenagers are committing suicide, we need the positive reinforcement of individuals who can demonstrate success while being open about their LGBT identity.

 

As long as legislatures are passing religious freedom or bathroom laws, we need the positive reinforcement of individuals who can demonstrate success while being open about their LGBT identity.

 

I'm sure America will get there, but now is not the time to quit recognizing these "first openly" LGBT individuals.

Posted

I agree and understand. Advancements and accomplishments by members of suppressed minority populations must be heralded to encourage others and to show them to be a part of our normal, accepted reality. I must also agree that they are worth celebrating, especially now when progress is being made. I just wish it were unnecessary.

Posted
I also suspect Rep. Chisholm, whom I once had the honor of hearing give a speech, would not want her accomplishments forgotten. She was proud to be the first black woman elected to Congress.

 

Sen.. Smith of Maine was defeated for a fifth term in the Senate in 1972 because of her support for Johnson in Vietnam. In her early 70s, she was more frail now. But Smith left for Maine upon receiving a telegram from demonstrators in Maine:"Return home and address yourself to the people whom you represent." Smith later called it "the most unpleasant experience in her entire political career." She lived for over 20 years longer and made peace with Maine voters.

 

QTR: Before women are fully accepted in Congress, there have to be more incident like Smith's. And Pelosi's in a leadership position.

Posted
My thread was foolish. Wanting something that can't be. Just have to wait.

I don't think your thread was foolish. What I think is folly is expecting progress to hurry up. Progress takes as long as it takes.

 

If it is meant to be, you will see it within your lifetime. In fact, in many places (such as the US Army) you already have. If memory serves, the Republican-controlled legislature just confirmed an "out" gay man to be Secretary of the Army. His sexual orientation apparently means very little to them.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...