Why do gay men these days play so many games? From escorting to just general getting to know people

[Mocha]

I've taken some time off to work on other things in my life, but I am just so tired of living the American gay life right now. As much as I don't believe people should have power over your happiness, it's hard to want to have any faith in anything dealing with gay men. This may extend to straight men or just people in general, but I'm specifically talking about gay men because those are the ones who tend to look at my escort ads and text me ad naseum.

 

I recently did a trip to Southern California, and I can now understand why other states flinch when a movement of Californians migrate to their state and the whole East/Weast coast battle. I had 20 people contact about appointments on 3 different sites. Only 1 was genuine. A4A was the #1 culprit, but the other sites fared just as bad. Californians are way, way too fake and non commital as all fuck and try to flaunt a lavish lifestyle, yet you never see the cash money. Ok, maybe that's about any of American cities. But lately it's just been out of control. I'm somewhere in between suicide and leaving the gay community and/or leaving America. Or less dramatic...blocking texts on my cellphone. Texts, are magnifying this issue. People are so goddamn hard-headed that when you ask them to call, to fucking hear their voice and make sure they have proper grammar, a man's voice, and aren't a 14 year old kid, they're too pussy and pigheaded to pick up the phone and have a Normal conversation. Nobody listens to directions, they just play these stupid little games, and no matter what you say or how you say things in your ad, they just don't get it.

 

I just can't deal with this. I grew up back in the gay.com and Aol and talking on the phone days. This text stuff is also bypassing my screening/security measures because I'm being contacted by people I would know within 5 seconds are nut jobs on the phone, but I'm finding out much later by texts. I talked about this a couple years ago, it's only gotten worse.

 

I could leave the business tomorrow...which I wouldn't mind doing as long as I have a few thousand or millions in the bank, but it wouldn't end there. It's the same thing outside of the business. Whether meeting in person or online, some of these guys have to be treated like clients because they act like clients looking for Prostitutes. Coming out with sex talk right off the bat, then Meeting by text, dating by texts, and breaking up by texts. If you're not about having sex, they'll be right back on (insert app).

 

I just can't remember a time when things were ever this complicated in the business and just in general with communication in the gay community. I know also, the White majority will never fully understand what the ethnic minorities experience. But, I think what exasperates the issue, especially in a place as racist as California (yeah I said it and ain't taking it back), some of these issues may exist in pockets. A Middle Eastern friend of mine spoke of how in San Diego, there's 5 Asian guys available for every 1 White guy. I told him, you think that's bad...see what it's like to have your own race only be into White guys, and not get a single client of your own ethnicity in a city that has your majority ethnicity...like DC and Atlanta. So obviously one can't expect the majority to fully relate to the unique troubles of a minority. We also spoke about how it seems no one is really in the mood to date or have sex, but just contact others for pure entertainment value. Sex isn't the goal it seems, talking about sex is the goal.

 

My last opinion on this bullshit, is I feel at some point down the line, no time specifically, there could be another major communicable disease/pathogen that'll trump the AIDS epidemic. Although I respect the works of bareback porn stars out there, I feel the combination of hookup apps, rampant drug use AND bareback in the real world is going to lead to serious shit. In addition, you have guys out here soliciting other gay men like they're prostitutes with no money involved. And then, trying to sneak it in bareback, Saying getting sex is as easy as ordering a pizza. Umm no...you didn't order that pizza, you got it for free. And it's pretty sad that is how gay men see their sexual partners...lower on the totem pole than a piece of dough topped with dead plant and animal remains. Why would a gay man pay an escort when there's a steady supply of volunteer prostitutes out there?

 

This is just not the kind of life I want to live. I'd almost rather be not living to live thru this. I see straight people with their girlfriends and kids and sometimes wish I was wired to be that way instead of constantly struggling in this lifestyle. I hope a change comes soon.

[wisconsinguy]

Mocha, OMG you bring up so many topics to expound on. From your personal thoughts, to what you say implies to the general population. I like lists, so I'll pick a few of your topics:

1) Communication in general... texting versus other forms of discourse. I come from an era of no computers. No mobile phones. My education, even through college, was based on the written word. I know, my parents were dinosaurs! I still had to go through an operator to place a call, and these lines were shared with four households. I believe todays technology is great, but it has done little to enhance or even develop basic "talking" skills. The endless texting you talk about has been broached here by escorts. I simply can't imagine what that would be like. Only thing I guess I would do is after the second or third text, and it's going nowhere, block the call if you can.

2) Minorities... your right. I know very little about the nitty-gritty, day to day, basic living challenges minorities have to deal with. I grew up, and spent most of my adult life a part of the white majority. About the only black individuals in my community were exchange students, or members of the staff at the university. However, because I'm the person I am, and I believe many that participate here on the forums have qualities that are positive. I believe there is an abundance of people on the forum and gay people in general, that are accepting, compassionate, empathetic, and willing to do what the can for each other. I also believe they try to understand what escorts might go through. Because my career has taken me on many great paths. One of which was working in an ER in a large metro city. Co-working, and caring for almost a diverse collection of minorities. It was the day of red framed glasses, and I had mine. At the start of a rotation, the charge nurse for the evening was assigning what she did. I was the only white staff member out of a dozen or so. She got to me, forgot my name, and said, "You white boy, with the red glasses." It brought the house down. I got more than a taste of diversity working there. It was a great experience, and I certainly gained so much working with some of the greatest group of diverse cultures.

3) Barebacking ...no reason for it, risky. I have a little more than a passing introduction to virology/bacteriology. There is of course always a possibility of a new super bug. The reasons are still multiple. The one that comes up first is the overuse of antibiotics. I t takes front row great for the evolution of the MRSA bug. The prescribing of such is on the decline. The AIDS virus has shown itself to mutate into other "form." So yes there is always a possibility of a super AIDS virus.

 

I wish I had more suggestion to help. But from my POV, the service escorts provide is priceless. You provide not only sexy "play" time, but life changing moments as well. I really hope you can have a great summer and find some peace and contentment. Good thoughts to you through the airwaves. WG2

[+ bigjoey]

Sorry to read your post but it is reflective of more than the gay culture. It is today's world generally. Some thoughts:

 

While The Wall Street Journal over twenty years ago described California as "Flash, Trash and Cash," that culture is world wide in both the straight and gay communities; think: Kardashians. Unfortunately, it is the culture in which we all live. Communication today is by text message because a call is too much trouble. I was in the company lunch room a while back and a person at my table was texting another person about 50 feet away; when I asked why don't they just walk over to them, the person replied "I don't want to talk with them."

 

Yes, Grinder, Scruff and other apps made it easy to get sex. Why pay for it when you can just whip out your phone and within a few minutes have a sex partner. I had a friend come visit me and every afternoon, he was off with a different partner; it was "Whiz, bang, thank you" with no unnecessary chit chat, just sex.

 

Being "ethnic" has its advantages, too. I had a friend (recently died) who was white but only liked black men; from when he was young, that was his fantasy and when he hired an escort, that was all he wanted. I imagine there are others with his preference. You just need to find them and build up a client base. The escorts I know that are very successful, like any business, have built up repeat customers; once that base is established, it give you a steady flow of income.

 

Barebacking has many threads here. You may be right that something else besides AIDS may come from from it.

 

I am 70 and still working part time and my work experience goes back over a half century. I think the consumer today is worse than I have ever seen over the years. The internet has changed much. The world of business is much harder than I recall. Glad to be leaving the new world of commerce.

 

Finally, the straight world is no bed of roses either. It is not a nice house with a rose covered picket fence out front. From the company lunchroom conversations, there are plenty of relationship problems there. too. Not only is there much divorce but today, there is often no marriage and just living together until the urge comes to move 0n to something better. Watch a couple of episodes of "Judge Judy" to see "real people, real cases" of straight couples' problems (she has gay couples on too).

 

I have just finished reading "Nine Essential Things I've Learned About Life" by Harold Kushner who is 80 (he wrote "Why Bad Things Happen To Good People" decades ago when his young son died). I suggest that book to you from the description of your feelings. It might give you some direction.

 

Good luck.

[dcguy20]

Mocha, unfortunately the games have always been there. Having coming out in NYC in the late 80s (pre-internet), what you describe, minus the texting, still existed. Imagine having to rely on just a landline phone!

 

Regarding other people's relationships - things aren't always what they appear to be.

 

I'm sorry you're feeling low at this point. You know how to reach me if you need to.

[+ Gar1eth]

And it's not just gay guys. A couple of years ago, I had a straight woman friend (we had a falling out). She was stepping out into the dating pool using POF. I remember several of her planned meet-ups never even showed up.

 

Gman

[whipped guy]

3) Barebacking ...no reason for it, risky. I have a little more than a passing introduction to virology/bacteriology. There is of course always a possibility of a new super bug. The reasons are still multiple. The one that comes up first is the overuse of antibiotics. I t takes front row great for the evolution of the MRSA bug. The prescribing of such is on the decline. The AIDS virus has shown itself to mutate into other "form." So yes there is always a possibility of a super AIDS virus... WG2

 

Well said WG2...

[+ sync]

Mocha, the vibe I get from your post is that you may have been pushing yourself too hard recently and should just unplug and truly chillax for a few days. If possible, getting away from all the everyday negatives that surround us for a few days can be wonderfully refreshing, mentally and physically. Hope you are feeling upbeat soon.

[ChrisWydeman]

Your job as an escort is to be perceptive. When a client walks in the door you look at how they carry themselves, what they are wearing, listen what they say and how they articulate their thoughts. These behavioral analysis skills are invaluable, they don't just apply to your escort work but to all interactions you have. When you implement those skills to your every day interactions you will find that it weeds out a lot of the bad apples. Drama will only come into your life if you invite it

[Mocha]

Thanks guys, all advice and suggestions taken....especially the book. I've been working on classes for college and not had anytime to read my thinking books...I think I'm overdue for a good book, but not sure where to find one that deals specifically with these issues.

 

Outside of the business, the games are just as rampant. Even just trying to casually and non-seriously date often ends up with heartache. Lately I've timed out from dating because my money is looking mad funny, and I don't even feel I have nothing to bring to the table of dating right now. Nor does anyone else.

 

Back to the business end of things, the other things that are pushing me over the edge right now include rates, and the fact that everybody wants me to host. Is anyone else getting that? Everybody wants me to host nowadays, when I'm traveling. How can I do that when people don't show up. Hotels are expensive. And they don't give you a full 24 hours. That's the other annoying thing about being in the business. Constantly having to battle hotels. Just today I had to rush a client out because the hotel would only give me til 12 to checkout at the latest.

 

I know it's pretty standard to expect an escort to host...but most of them don't show up. They want me to host because they aren't really planning to show anyway, unlike having an address where I show up. What happened to the guy in the hotel who wants some company? I don't even get those anymore. It's always, "can you host? Can you host, can you host, host? Host? Host? Host? Where you staying, where you staying, where you staying, which hotel,? Do you know where you staying?

 

NO, I DONT KNOW WHERE IM STAYING. I just put the ad up 10 minutes ago for 10 days in advance. SHUT THE FUCK UP! Is what I want to tell them Lol

 

And this $100 business is really grating my nerves. I think it's almost become a challenge game for guys, to see if they can talk an escort into doing everything under the sun for $100. I started telling guys, "would you trust your health, safety and money to a $100 hooker?"

 

The reason why that's annoying is because it's almost like they're sending me a message that I am not business saavy or smart enough to calculate my rates for what I need to do. For them, $100 is suppose to be a cure all. And I'm not liking this whole clients calling me thinking they can call the shots and dictate what I deserve. That's not right, and it's never been this bad before. People are saying they can't even afford $150 anymore. Let alone $200-300.

[marylander1940]

I've taken some time off to work on other things in my life, but I am just so tired of living the American gay life right now. As much as I don't believe people should have power over your happiness, it's hard to want to have any faith in anything dealing with gay men. This may extend to straight men or just people in general, but I'm specifically talking about gay men because those are the ones who tend to look at my escort ads and text me ad naseum..

 

Imagine straight women dealing with straight guys in this Peter Pan world where 12 is the new 15, and 40 is the new 30.

 

I recently did a trip to Southern California, and I can now understand why other states flinch when a movement of Californians migrate to their state and the whole East/Weast coast battle. I had 20 people contact about appointments on 3 different sites. Only 1 was genuine. A4A was the #1 culprit, but the other sites fared just as bad. Californians are way, way too fake and non commital as all fuck and try to flaunt a lavish lifestyle, yet you never see the cash money. Ok, maybe that's about any of American cities. But lately it's just been out of control. I'm somewhere in between suicide and leaving the gay community and/or leaving America. Or less dramatic...blocking texts on my cellphone. Texts, are magnifying this issue. People are so goddamn hard-headed that when you ask them to call, to fucking hear their voice and make sure they have proper grammar, a man's voice, and aren't a 14 year old kid, they're too pussy and pigheaded to pick up the phone and have a Normal conversation. Nobody listens to directions, they just play these stupid little games, and no matter what you say or how you say things in your ad, they just don't get it..

 

I know a local DC escorts who travels to Kansas City, a place without many choices, he only goes there twice per year for 4 days and has 170 email contacts in his KC list... 170 homosexuals who live in Kansas City and contacted him because they liked his pictures... he considers it a good trip if 6 guys hire him, some of them are traveling business men.

 

The fact that they contact you doesn't mean they'll have the free time, money, or the will to hire you, they just inquire about you, maybe they were just shopping around, at least they liked your pictures and emailed you about it.

 

I just can't deal with this. I grew up back in the gay.com and Aol and talking on the phone days. This text stuff is also bypassing my screening/security measures because I'm being contacted by people I would know within 5 seconds are nut jobs on the phone, but I'm finding out much later by texts. I talked about this a couple years ago, it's only gotten worse..

 

Nothing substitutes a phone call for 2 mins to make sure there's connection, I guess we're both "thick and slow"...

 

I could leave the business tomorrow...which I wouldn't mind doing as long as I have a few thousand or millions in the bank, but it wouldn't end there. It's the same thing outside of the business. Whether meeting in person or online, some of these guys have to be treated like clients because they act like clients looking for Prostitutes. Coming out with sex talk right off the bat, then Meeting by text, dating by texts, and breaking up by texts. If you're not about having sex, they'll be right back on (insert app)..

 

It's a hook up culture, now right in your phone... unless you're old like me.

 

I just can't remember a time when things were ever this complicated in the business and just in general with communication in the gay community. I know also, the White majority will never fully understand what the ethnic minorities experience. But, I think what exasperates the issue, especially in a place as racist as California (yeah I said it and ain't taking it back), some of these issues may exist in pockets. A Middle Eastern friend of mine spoke of how in San Diego, there's 5 Asian guys available for every 1 White guy. I told him, you think that's bad...see what it's like to have your own race only be into White guys, and not get a single client of your own ethnicity in a city that has your majority ethnicity...like DC and Atlanta. So obviously one can't expect the majority to fully relate to the unique troubles of a minority. We also spoke about how it seems no one is really in the mood to date or have sex, but just contact others for pure entertainment value. Sex isn't the goal it seems, talking about sex is the goal..

 

Porno is also very bias when it comes to ethnicity, to many "White is beautiful", unless you're a hot Asian girl who's loyal, tight, won't cheap and cooks at home. Back to serious talk... I've started a few threads quoting guys who said in their manhunt profiles "no blacks" or "no Asians", they belonged to those ethnic groups.... I got pack attacked right away but many saying things like "who am I to judge", "if he doesn't like black/Asian guys like him (all members of his family are ugly to him) is up to him", etc.

 

Where are yinz now?

 

Some escorts even say in their profiles: "no blacks". If I was an escort I would rather being hired by an in shape black man of any age instead of an overweight white man.

 

My last opinion on this bullshit, is I feel at some point down the line, no time specifically, there could be another major communicable disease/pathogen that'll trump the AIDS epidemic. Although I respect the works of bareback porn stars out there, I feel the combination of hookup apps, rampant drug use AND bareback in the real world is going to lead to serious shit. In addition, you have guys out here soliciting other gay men like they're prostitutes with no money involved. And then, trying to sneak it in bareback, Saying getting sex is as easy as ordering a pizza. Umm no...you didn't order that pizza, you got it for free. And it's pretty sad that is how gay men see their sexual partners...lower on the totem pole than a piece of dough topped with dead plant and animal remains. Why would a gay man pay an escort when there's a steady supply of volunteer prostitutes out there?.

 

PrEP doen't protect agains Zika and others, let's cross our fingers.

 

This is just not the kind of life I want to live. I'd almost rather be not living to live thru this. I see straight people with their girlfriends and kids and sometimes wish I was wired to be that way instead of constantly struggling in this lifestyle. I hope a change comes soon.

 

Now you're starting to sound like some of the "goodbye" threads on this site...

 

Dog that barks doesn't bite.

[Mocha]

I should say...when I mentioned the straight picket fence lifestyle...that was more of an allegory, than what I actually want. I don't want child support, crying kids when I'm traveling across the country, or scribbled up walls lol. But I do get tired of seeing it though as if that's considered "normal". However, I wish it became more normalized in the gay culture. Unfortunently, you can be on a date with someone today, and never seen them again, then rotate. Again, maybe that's not gay specific but it's definitely the dominating theme it seems.

 

Don't get me started on Kansas City lol. That used to sometimes be a good town to pass thru in the better days, but time and again has proven Kansas City is rarely worth stopping in for me. I can't stand that place. I mean, it has it's nice points and I've met some wonderful clients from there...but it's been dead, dead, dead the last 2-4 years. The Midwest isn't much better, and I think California is the way it is because a lot of people from the Midwest have taken residence there. They move there, flake it out, and go back to wherever or remain and procreate. With California, you can't tell where the bullshit is stinking from because everyone is from somewhere else.

 

No one from the Midwest be offended, just my observations.

[Mocha]

I'll include another random example of the games Gay men play and why grindr facilitates that.

 

Two weeks ago or so In Dallas walking into my hotel after a night out, I see a guy wearing a fluorescent blue tank cut low. He was looking at me as i waited for the elevator. So being bold, i went and said hello and Asked if he was at the Roundup. I didn't see him there, i just wanted to find out if he was gay. He said yes he was. Bingo.

 

However, although he declined my invitation to come up to my room for a drink (it as a light "let's chat more upstairs") and we didn't exchange numbers, he then hits me up on GRINDR and starts talking about how he's horny and asking what room i was in. Mother chucker was full of ish.

 

My Arab friend was right. These guys don't want to fuck, they just like to entertain the thought of fucking by fucking around on their iPhone And grindr. These guys are the same guys harassing escorts.

 

On the other hand, i cant rule out predjudice either. I know people hate when i pull the race card, but it's like...if i was the same person as another ethnicity, would this extracurricular bullshit be taking place?

[dcguy20]

Mocha, I have noticed that people have become so accustomed and acclimated to communicating on their devices, that the art of communicating face-to-face has been lost. I'll give you a perfect example. One of my co-workers recently left, so on his last day three of us took him out to lunch. One of my co-workers at this lunch (female, 27 yo) spent the entire time at lunch texting on her phone instead of engaging in conversation at the table. I know I will NEVER go out to lunch with her in the future. Unfortunately it is the way some people are.

[MikeBannacheck]

It's easier to be an asshole when you're hiding behind a screen. My advice.. Instant gratification never fills the void it only expands it. Yeah romantic love and sex are great, but there are indeed greater things!

 

Also, if you get stood up (happens to me all the time) don't take it personally. The guy probably shot his jizz and shut off his phone.

 

If you do happen to connect with someone, always insist to talk over the phone before meeting. A person's voice is just as important in sexual attraction as how they look.

 

Lastly, always make the No AA pledge (no awkwardness or animosity) beforehand. If the plug and outlet are a mismatch no need to become enemies.

[+ bigjoey]

Mocha, I have noticed that people have become so accustomed and acclimated to communicating on their devices, that the art of communicating face-to-face has been lost. I'll give you a perfect example. One of my co-workers recently left, so on his last day three of us took him out to lunch. One of my co-workers at this lunch (female, 27 yo) spent the entire time at lunch texting on her phone instead of engaging in conversation at the table. I know I will NEVER go out to lunch with her in the future. Unfortunately it is the way some people are.

 

Recently, I was at a restaurant and there was a near-by table with eight teenage girls. ALL of them were texting on their phones and there was no conversation at the table!! I was amazed but relieved not to have a table of loud, teenage girls next to me.

[+ WilliamM]

Mocha, unfortunately the games have always been there. Having coming out in NYC in the late 80s (pre-internet), what you describe, minus the texting, still existed. Imagine having to rely on just a landline phone!

 

My thoughts exactly. The games have always been there. Texting has just made it worse.

 

You will meet someone in your personal life with an immediate connection. And it may happen when you least expect it.

 

Mocha, Glad you posted and hope writing about it helps a little..

[+ stevenkesslar]

LOL. This gave me a good morning laugh.

 

When I saw the banner for this post the first WTF???!!! thought was why would anybody include the words "these days" in the sentence "Why do Gay men play so many games?"

 

And why do bears shit in the woods?

 

I came into being openly Gay from being an openly straight married man and there is simply no comparison in the way the game is played, although it is a game either way. I'll spend my life wondering what the answer is and it may be the fairest thing is to just take the word "Gay" out of the sentence and simply ask, Why do so many men play games? And maybe the answer is they just like to fuck around, literally.

[+ Truereview]

For me, in romantic and sexual relations - regardless of orientation - the best way to play the game of relations is to be unapologetically oneself. Imagine what fun you will have when partners approach you to play bc of who you are, not bc of what society has conditioned you to be?

[klifhangar]

This is one of the reasons why, though I have strong curiosities and attractions, I am often convinced that I should stay in a straight lifestyle. I have noticed that gay men are the chief game players in relationships and interactions. I'm sure that it has something to do with having to hide, explain, feel shame, suffer bigotry all their lives? I don't know. But, while the dream of having one lover, kids etc. can be had with a woman, I think the chances that I or anyone else could find a dude that we love to spend our lives with that isn't a head case and a cheater... nearly zero. That's my perception anyway. Maybe @Mocha and I need to just get married

[josh282282]

I came into being openly Gay from being an openly straight married man and there is simply no comparison in the way the game is played, although it is a game either way.

 

Steven,

Please tell me more. The reality is most of us have never had a lengthy "straight" experience, especially me. But what was it like to be straight and dating woman back then compared to now dating (gay) men? What are the differences? The similarities? What did you see in the straight world that you wish you now saw in the gay world? How were you treated differently as a straight man as compared to other gay men you knew back then, presuming you knew any gay men back then? How are you treated now as a gay man? Tell us about the "games", from all sides and perspectives. Many gay men lament the superficiality of the "gay scene", but have nothing to compare it to. Give us your comparison. It could be quite illuminating.

 

If you are willing, and this isn't crossing boundaries please tell us more. I love to learn other people's experiences.

 

Warmest regards

[klifhangar]

I would be interested in Steven's reply, as well @josh282282 but I can share some similar experiences, although my sexual life is private right now as I try to figure it out myself first.

 

While women are very emotional and up and down, most seem to crave monogamy and most are over the moon excited to find a man who takes care of himself, communicates well and has some creative/romantic side. I have little doubt that I could find another woman (I was married 24 years), settle down and be reasonably happily married to the same woman for the rest of my life.

 

I have been close to gay men in and out of their own relationships my entire adult life and they seem FAR more fickle and apt to cheat and to break up over seemingly minor issues. I'm sorry if that's offensive - this is just my observation. My experience has been that gay men say they're interested in a real relationship, they flirt, they will act like they've found the man of their dreams then move on suddenly with no explanation or reason. I do think that most gay men have been affected by living with shame, having to hide and probably deal with cruelty, which has impacted their ability to connect and to commit.

 

I also think that religious and cultural norms keep male/female relationships committed to one another. Even during hard times, my wife and I (at the time) never saw divorce as an option so we HAD to work things out and we always came back to a place where we were glad that we stayed together. We also had the positive peer pressure of church, family and other committed couples. I think that gay men who are just living together can drop that partner and move on and are less bound by a perceived "morality" to remain together. I think some think of it as gay men are already breaking "morality" by being in a gay relationship so breaking up is no big deal. Hope that makes sense. ANY couple is going to run into truly hard times so couples that don't have some external/internal drive to stay together are going to part.

 

 

Ok, I spoke for Kesslar with true Kesslar verbosity

[+ stevenkesslar]

Ok, I spoke for Kesslar with true Kesslar verbosity

 

Oh, sweetie. You don't know shit. I was on the phone with somebody for almost 3 hours today talking about politics, this website and fundraising to support it, and God knows what else. There is almost no limit on my ability to open my mouth and .................

 

There are so many questions asked above I'm not even going to try to answer any, partly because I'm not into writing a biography now and also I feel like I actually don't know shit, other than that life is full of irony. It is still probably the case that the human being I was most head over heels in love with, at least in a lusty, emotional crush sort of way, was a woman - my wife. I find that funny, thinking about it from the perspective of a Gay man who has a great reputation as an escort and supposedly knows something about "Gay" whatever. I actually think the fact that I'm an escort probably means that at some point along the way I decided, okay, I like 1) polyamory, or 2) just playing around, or 3) both. I spent a couple years volunteer organizing in CA for LGBT marriage even though by the time I did it I had figured out it was unlikely I'd ever get married myself, partly because I like my independence. So this is all a way of saying: to each his own. There's so many variables, who knows? And it is certainly within my experience that a lot of guys, Gay and Straight, view marriage and marriage-like relationships the way klifhangar describes: failure is not an option, and you HAVE to work things out. I don't know that that kind of temperament and patience and endurance has anything to do with gender or sexual orientation, really. I think it's more that some people are just more mature than others, and they know better how to make relationships work.

 

My divorce was based more than on anything on immaturity, meaning both me and my ex-wife. We were young and in love and in the words of a therapist I hired at the time, we "grew up together" but also "never completely individuated." Boy did the therapist get that right. For me at least. Like I never came to grips with the fact that, um, I'm Gay. My wife and I were going through a sort of 7 year itch, mostly based on career pressure, and the marriage just caved. I started the split up, mostly as a threat, and she trumped me and ended it, to my utter shock. I will always have this "woulda coulda shoulda" wondering about what would have happened if we'd had kids and stayed married. It worked out well for both of us: she got remarried and has a husband and a kid, and I got to scratch every itch I even thought I might have. I have to think that had we stayed married I eventually would have been one of those guys like many clients who have hired me, who love their wives but like having sex with guys.

 

The verdict is very much still out on this whole "Gay men just like to play games" thing. There is no shortage of Gay couples including many active on this site who have had successful and enduring and loving relationships for decades, long before it was socially acceptable. One obvious challenge for Gay men who want a marriage is that, until recently, it wasn't condoned or allowed. So the guys that did it decades ago had to be really committed to it. When I got divorced and then came out, I thought it would only be a brief period until I went from being settled with a woman to being settled with a man. I sure got that wrong. Some part of it is the guys I met (hello! in bars and sex clubs more often than not) mostly wanted to play, and some part of it is I (hello!) mostly wanted to play. But it was not all just fun and games. I actually transitioned from going to dinners and on weekend hikes with a group of straight couples with my wife to going to dinners and on weekend hikes with the same straights, only with my boyfriend. So at least in my social circles, it wasn't like acceptance was really an issue. I had good friends, and they accepted me whether I was Gay or Straight, just like my family did. Fortunately for me. Mostly if I blame anyone for the fact that I didn't move quickly from a LTR with a woman into a permanent LTR with a man, I blame myself. And mostly I think it was some combination of being young and naive, and being young and just wanting to play. So I'm not against the idea of men who like to play. I just laughed at the idea that it had anything to do with "these days."

 

Now that LGBT marriage is condoned and legally sanctioned, I'll be very interested to see in a few decades, after there is a long period of time to look at, whether Gay men do better, worse, or the same as Straight men. Anyone wanna take a guess?

[Mocha]

My experience has been that gay men say they're interested in a real relationship, they flirt, they will act like they've found the man of their dreams then move on suddenly with no explanation or reason.

 

Exactly, 100%. That's exactly what I'm talking about. I've done so many things to improve myself inside and out, and though things have gotten a little better, it hasn't gotten much better over the last 10-15 years. Guys will still play that ghost game and disappear off the radar faster than an EgyptAir plane over the Mediterranean Sea (my condolences, but best analogy I could think of ATM).

 

Right now I'm "getting to know" two guys where I been living for the past 4-5 months. Now, I'm not being a player. One knows I'm an escort. The other we've been chatting For 2 months but only met once (after we met he went on a cruise and I've been on tour for 3 weeks).

 

I'm going into it hoping it continues going well, but I've played these games before. I was recently in San Diego, supposedly the 3rd gay Capitol of Southern California. A friend and I went to a couple clubs, but overall I was not motivated to really meet anyone. I've had more disappointing long distance attempts these past 12 months than ever. Met guys from 4-5 different cities, and upon returning to rekindle, they've suddenly fell into a new relationship while I was away.

 

Back to the business end of things, it's dead all over the West. I've literally been breaking even everywhere for the last 3 weeks. In the past, things would suck for a week or 2. This has been going on for months. Doing little tweaks here and there and verifying photos on rentmen.com, but just overall just dead. Where is everybody?

[Mocha]

The verdict is very much still out on this whole "Gay men just like to play games" thing. There is no shortage of Gay couples including many active on this site who have had successful and enduring and loving relationships for decades, long before it was socially acceptable. I just laughed at the idea that it had anything to do with "these days."

 

Now that LGBT marriage is condoned and legally sanctioned, I'll be very interested to see in a few decades, after there is a long period of time to look at, whether Gay men do better, worse, or the same as Straight men. Anyone wanna take a guess?

 

I'm well aware of the many gay "couples" out there. Most of the clients I meet are in fact coupled. But at the same time, I can't help but notice that most of the gay couples who've been together for decades are usually White or White/Hispanic. Why is that? Once in awhile you'll hear about an interracial couple that's been together for awhile. But more often than not, finding a gay couple who isn't White who've been together for years, is akin to playing the lottery: you hear about it, read about it...but those odds can't be ignored. What you don't hear are the guys who spend most of their life either in lonliness or going from one short-lived relationship to the next. They never make press. Just doesn't make for an interesting success story.

 

It's those observations that make me question everything about being gay. I'm not saying that a gay man HAS to be in a relationship to be happy. It's not for everyone. Some people have family, careers, and miscellaneous relationships to where they don't require a relationship to thrive. Not the case for everyone though.

 

But back to what I was saying...the gay lifestyle and many relationship privilege seem to come easier for White guys more so than all other races. Now, some people may get all bent out of shape over that...but it's just a passing observation of the matter, atleast in my experience of America. White guys usually tend to have the privilege of being able to easily partner up for long time with either their own or any other race.

 

I have a friend right now that, in a perfect scenario....we would be in a relationship. We've known each other for 3 years and I recently met him and his mother across the country. But, he's only into "White tops". And he's not even White. That's one example out of many I can't even name. And the lies from gay couples, "We'll invite you to dinner some night". Yeah right. But I call and they either don't answer or quickly get off the phone. Or always act like they've go something better to do when reaching out thru text. But now, if I was some White guy, they wouldn't hesitate in the least.

 

If you don't believe me, go to a non-themed gay bar. On a busy night. Who are the people usually alone, versus the ones who are either in groups or partnered up? I very rarely ever see the average White guy alone. Yet, I've been asked more than once, in gay social functions, "are you gay?".

 

And people wonder why some men turn Into drag queens. You have to pretend you're Beyoncé just to get some recognition out here. If you're not White, being yourself doesn't get you into the group.

[josh282282]

I have been close to gay men in and out of their own relationships my entire adult life and they seem FAR more fickle and apt to cheat and to break up over seemingly minor issues.

 

Now that LGBT marriage is condoned and legally sanctioned, I'll be very interested to see in a few decades, after there is a long period of time to look at, whether Gay men do better, worse, or the same as Straight men. Anyone wanna take a guess?

 

As a man of science, I hate guessing. Give me hard-core data if available.

And lo, and behold, there is some. Below I have listed 2 research articles where not only the the studies demonstrate that men in gay marriages file for divorce LESS than their heterosexual counterparts, but gay marriages (males) filled for divorce less than lesbian marriages. Yes, it might seem to some counterintuitive, but the data is the data.

 

Study 1:

"The second analysis found that, on average, 1.1% of same-sex couples dissolve their legal relationships each year. This rate is lower than the annual divorce rate for married different-sex couples (2%) "

 

http://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/research/census-lgbt-demographics-studies/relationship-data-2014/

 

Study 2:

"The most recent evidence from the UK Office of National Statistics finds that homosexual couples that joined in 2005 were significantly less likely to have filed for dissolution four years later than heterosexual couples were to have filed for divorce: 2.5% compared to 5.5%. As Hattersley points out, however, male couples were much less likely to dissolve their relationship than were female couples: By the end of 2010, 1.6 % of male civil partnerships had ended in dissolution compared to 3.3 % of female partnerships."

 

http://dish.andrewsullivan.com/2012/04/06/why-do-lesbians-divorce-more-than-gay-men/