The Data Is What The Data...

[+ Phactor]

As a newb to the site, it's this kind of topic that makes me happy to be part of the community... conversing, learning, and helping each other.

 

After lurking for a couple of months, I took the plunge and hired for the first time last week. My companion was the right guy at the right time. I needed a break, to do something for myself, and to feel special. My companion surpassed all expectations. The next day, I felt like was ready to tackle the world again. It's because of the tips, advice, and opinion I read on the forum that I felt prepared to take action.

 

To help with immediate needs, a check is in the mail. Regarding the strategy and tactics for long-term sustainability, a few thoughts from the discussion thus far ...

 

Do not hesitate to conspicuously and consistently promote that the site's operational costs are supported by community donations.

 

As for the technical/user experience aspect for donations, it must be simple and flexible (one-time or recurring).

 

I agree that requiring membership fees will result with the loss of membership in today's environment. However, a monthly recurring revenue model (aka subscriptions) will eventually be needed. I've participated in several forums over the years, and most are gone because of revenue generation issues. One strategy to address the need is to offer features in future releases available to only premium subscribers. Removal of any features available today at no cost will create a backlash and loss of membership. Value-added features in future releases for premium access offers the best of both worlds ... access to today's world at no cost with donation solicitations and access to tomorrow's world with premium membership.

 

Recognition levels for those who donate and those who actively participate will generate interest from others ... a little friendly competition will never hurt any one.

 

Hat tip to Steven for driving the conversation.

[+ stevenkesslar]

How about a Pay-by-Post Plan for us pikers who just use the Forums?

 

For $10 a month, you could read a hundred posts. For $25 a month, you could read fifty posts. And for $50 a month, you wouldn't have to read any posts at all!

 

The Premium Plan would double the rates and black out the Politics Forum. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

 

I talked to my boyfriend Kenny last night.

 

He loved your idea and said that he'll donate an extra $5 every time I call Paul Ryan an evil asshole and also he'll donate $5 every time I make a brief Twitter-length post that does not have a chart and graft.

[+ stevenkesslar]

I did some checking and let me see if any of you have reactions to this template for 3 ways to make donations to Daddy. To be clear I view these 3 not as either/or, but as 3 options that as a set should meet most people's needs.

 

1. Bank to bank electronic transfers.

 

My checking is with B of A and I already use that account to receive rent every month from tenants, pay handymen, etc. These payments can be set up either as one time or regular (e.g. "monthly") debits. It is very easy for me to do if it is B of A to B of A but I have also used it with other major banks, and there is no fee - so for example tenants to can use it to pay rent from a non- B of A account. That can take longer (several days rather than immediately) but it works fine and is free.

 

Speaking only for myself, this is the way I plan to donate $50 a month because it is easy, I can do it quickly from home, and it doesn't involve doing anything other than a one time set up. (It of course requires private bank account info that we won't talk about openly on the website).

 

2. Google Wallet

 

Daddy already stated he has a Google Wallet account set up. I did a quick check of the Google Wallet For Dummies set up guide and it seems pretty simple and Google/Android is obviously a popular platform. The only downside I can see is that transfers are free on both ends if you are using Google Wallet or a bank account (checking or savings) to pay from, but if you use a debit or credit card there is a 2.9 % per transaction fee. To me that means the simplest solution is #1 above, but for people who have Google Wallet set up or prefer to use it it seems like a good option on both the giving end and on Daddy's end. Another possible downside is I am pretty sure most big banks will let you set up monthly auto-pays, so I will set mine to send Daddy $50 a month automatically, whereas I'm not sure if Google Wallet has a similar feature.

 

3. Snail mail

 

The other part of the template that makes sense to me is the old fashioned way: snail mail. This will work for people who prefer more anonymity including those that simply want to send cash or a money order. For reasons stated above by several people it is by far the most cumbersome solution, but for some people it may be the only comfortable option.

 

With any of the three above BVB's suggestion is good, which you could pledge $5 a month, but for reasons of simplicity make one $60 payment either through a bank transfer, Google Wallet, or a check via snail mail.

 

To be clear, also, my view is that we should set an aggregate goal and a timeframe. What I mean by timeframe, for example, is I am thinking I will set up a monthly donation from my B of A account for one year, from May 2016 to May 2017. Several people have made excellent suggestions about looking at this long-term, from the revenue side. I strongly agree with this idea, but I also agree that with Daddy's consent it make sense to step back, take a breath, think it through carefully, and do it in a way that adds value rather than takes away "free" stuff that will cause a negative reaction. For example the idea of "premium services" could make sense with some type of payment platform. I don't see any reason to rush to do anything like that, but I really appreciate Daddy's openness to letting us participate in a discreet process to help make a great website even better.

 

I'm putting all this out there as trial balloons for a general platform for ways to help. Reactions? Has anyone used Google Wallet?

[+ Keith30309]

I did some checking and let me see if any of you have reactions to this template for 3 ways to make donations to Daddy. To be clear I view these 3 not as either/or, but as 3 options that as a set should meet most people's needs.

 

1. Bank to bank electronic transfers.

 

My checking is with B of A and I already use that account to receive rent every month from tenants, pay handymen, etc. These payments can be set up either as one time or regular (e.g. "monthly") debits. It is very easy for me to do if it is B of A to B of A but I have also used it with other major banks, and there is no fee - so for example tenants to can use it to pay rent from a non- B of A account. That can take longer (several days rather than immediately) but it works fine and is free.

 

Speaking only for myself, this is the way I plan to donate $50 a month because it is easy, I can do it quickly from home, and it doesn't involve doing anything other than a one time set up. (It of course requires private bank account info that we won't talk about openly on the website).

 

2. Google Wallet

 

Daddy already stated he has a Google Wallet account set up. I did a quick check of the Google Wallet For Dummies set up guide and it seems pretty simple and Google/Android is obviously a popular platform. The only downside I can see is that transfers are free on both ends if you are using Google Wallet or a bank account (checking or savings) to pay from, but if you use a debit or credit card there is a 2.9 % per transaction fee. To me that means the simplest solution is #1 above, but for people who have Google Wallet set up or prefer to use it it seems like a good option on both the giving end and on Daddy's end. Another possible downside is I am pretty sure most big banks will let you set up monthly auto-pays, so I will set mine to send Daddy $50 a month automatically, whereas I'm not sure if Google Wallet has a similar feature.

 

3. Snail mail

 

The other part of the template that makes sense to me is the old fashioned way: snail mail. This will work for people who prefer more anonymity including those that simply want to send cash or a money order. For reasons stated above by several people it is by far the most cumbersome solution, but for some people it may be the only comfortable option.

 

With any of the three above BVB's suggestion is good, which you could pledge $5 a month, but for reasons of simplicity make one $60 payment either through a bank transfer, Google Wallet, or a check via snail mail.

 

To be clear, also, my view is that we should set an aggregate goal and a timeframe. What I mean by timeframe, for example, is I am thinking I will set up a monthly donation from my B of A account for one year, from May 2016 to May 2017. Several people have made excellent suggestions about looking at this long-term, from the revenue side. I strongly agree with this idea, but I also agree that with Daddy's consent it make sense to step back, take a breath, think it through carefully, and do it in a way that adds value rather than takes away "free" stuff that will cause a negative reaction. For example the idea of "premium services" could make sense with some type of payment platform. I don't see any reason to rush to do anything like that, but I really appreciate Daddy's openness to letting us participate in a discreet process to help make a great website even better.

 

I'm putting all this out there as trial balloons for a general platform for ways to help. Reactions? Has anyone used Google Wallet?

 

Thank you very, very much for pulling this together! I think these are all great ideas.

 

Something to consider: I've not used Google Wallet but I see in the online help " ...credit and prepaid cards can't be used to send money...".

When I need to make a discrete electronic payment I use cash to purchase a prepaid VISA(s) from Walmart, CVS, etc., because there is no personally identifiable easy link to the payment (when made from a VPN and taking other more subtle steps). In addition, I perceive Google to be a voracious collector and aggregator of usage data of all its products. If one is concerned about privacy this would be something to consider.

 

This still leaves the old-fashioned snail mail money order solution.

[+ Phactor]

I did some checking and let me see if any of you have reactions to this template for 3 ways to make donations to Daddy. To be clear I view these 3 not as either/or, but as 3 options that as a set should meet most people's needs.

 

... not sure if Google Wallet has a similar feature.

 

I'm putting all this out there as trial balloons for a general platform for ways to help. Reactions? Has anyone used Google Wallet?

 

Steven, these options should cover the vast majority of members who wish to contribute. Effective 5/1/16, Google Wallet removed the recurring payment feature. I have mine tied to a "special" online savings account used for "special" purposes because credit and pre-paid cards cannot be used to send money.

 

I can appreciate those with concerns with electronic payments. Unfortunately, snail mail will be the only way to go.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Speaking only for myself, I am paranoid about Google getting my data, which is partly why I would personally prefer bank to bank. Thanks for answering the question about the recurring payment feature - that is another minor downside with Google Wallet, since I think most big banks can do recurring auto pays.

 

I think in addition to cash or money orders the prepaid gift/Visa cards are a good solution when tied to snail mail. Again with them you pay a fee but for some people who want discretion the small fee would be worth it

[oceansunshine]

About 75K

wow, if 50% of 75K gave $10 a year, problem would be easily solved (over optimistic on participation I suspect).

[+ stevenkesslar]

Recognition levels for those who donate and those who actively participate will generate interest from others ... a little friendly competition will never hurt any one.

 

wow, if 50% of 75K gave $10 a year, problem would be easily solved (over optimistic on participation I suspect).

 

+1. Before a locked contribution-based model, perhaps it might make sense to try making both the need to donate and how to donate more prominent on the home pages and promote it in relatively painless ways, maybe with a pinned post on the home page asking those who use and enjoy the site to show the love...I wonder whether a membership model might hurt traffic more than it might help, as well as raise other concerns discussed above either in reality or in the minds of potential participants.

 

Let me run a mash up of some of these ideas up the flagpole.

 

First, what NOT to do. I think several people have mentioned good reasons NOT to rush toward any kind of paid membership model, even if it is a limited number of people who chose to pay to obtain "premium services." There may be some great ideas there, but I think it makes sense to take time to explore and test them.

 

While 75,000 unique visitors sounds impressive, I'm pretty sure it would be a lot less if there was a mandatory fee to view this website. More important, it is overkill, literally, in terms of what's needed to keep the website healthy.

 

Now what TO DO:

 

First, I'd suggest we - meaning a fairly small group of people - move forward in a matter of days to set up monthly pledges or one-time donations based on the payment platforms discussed above. So far it sounds like the reaction is that those 3 platforms - electronic bank transfers, Google Wallet, and snail mail - would cover most everybody's needs. Based on the reaction I've gotten so far I think a number of people would be willing to consider pledges in the range of $25 to $100 a month. I personally don't care whether we set this up so there are public recognition levels, or public recognition at all, or whether this is all confidential. The main pragmatic need is that we do need to set an aggregate goal that meets the bottom line and we need to get enough donors pledged to meet that goal. Then we'll need to do the set up work involving each donor's individual bank electronic transfer systems or the Google Wallet system. I'd like to be part of this group and in terms of my involvement I'd be happy to organize the details - it's a short term project involving a small group of good hearted people and I think we could get it done and put out the fire in a few weeks at most.

 

Second, once that is done, I like the idea of putting up a permanent sticky note encouraging individuals to pay a voluntary $5 a month membership fee, either on a month to month basis or as a one time annual donation, sort of like BVB suggested, using any of the three payment platforms I suggested above. In my mind in addition to raising more money, it would be a good tool to test various "revenue model" ideas. For example if Daddy and some as yet unidentified technical helpers decide it makes sense to phase in premium services, that platform could be used to test it. If you think of this as a donation model, a 1 % response rate is a home run. I think the 75,000 website hits are people that look at the review site, and not the forum, which has a lot fewer eyeballs. It would be interesting to see whether several hundred forum members would give $5 a month to keep the forum going. That alone might solve the long term financial problem. But instead of requiring it, I'd suggest we put it out there on a good will basis and simply see what happens. That will be a good market test of how motivated people are to give a small amount to preserve and/or enhance this website. For the reasons BVB already stated, I think the method that makes the most sense for a relatively small number of monthly pledges makes less sense for this idea. Just the administration of setting up a whole bunch of $5 monthly debits could be time consuming. In the long run it could make a lot of sense, and add up to a lot of money, but I personally think the best approach would be to let this model grow organically.

 

Third, I think people interested in working with Daddy on the longer term technical, legal, and revenue issues raised should identify themselves (several of you already have), and they should privately and discreetly figure out what longer term ideas make sense over a period of months. As I already said above I'd say right now we focus on pledges for ONE year which gives Daddy and a small working group plenty of time to figure out what other longer term ideas, if any, make sense. It also lets those of us making monthly pledges know that it ends after one year, unless we decide to permanently continue it. It's clear we all share an interest in first doing what we need to do to help the website survive, and second figure out ways to enhance it while avoiding the potential negative downsides.

 

Reactions?

[Guy Fawkes]

Several Financial Institutions allow you to send cash to a email address. The Institution then contacts that email address for routing details. The email [email protected] would reach Daddy.

 

BTW: It was I who deleted the off-topic remarks. It's important that we stay on topic because notes are being taken for design purposes.

 

FYI: It would appear that I can put static pages up in the Message Forum. As the ideas coalesce, I'll build a page.

[+ Keith30309]

All good ideas.

As the plan evolves and solutions are put into place I'd not lose sight of the privacy element and making a potential donor comfortable in dropping a few dollars into the bucket. Some of us here are quite comfortable in a lifestyle including publishing our real names and inviting others into our homes and swimming pools but I suspect that is the exception. I would wager that most of those 75,000 pairs of eyes would prefer to be behind a pair of opaque sunglasses and remain unknown.

 

I'm not talking about dark market, Silk Road stuff, but something similar to the porn model of 3rd party billers like ProBiller or Epoch (which I believe Seancody uses). As has been mentioned there are fees associated with these upwards of 15% but including these sorts of options, as well as cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin, in a long-term, strategic plan might be wise so the solution can evolve with the web marketplace. I'd guess in a few years there will be fewer forum members like me who shuffle to the mailbox in bedroom slippers with a piece of paper in an envelope.

 

To get a sense of how significant this might be one might pull the numbers apart a little more: how many of the 75k visitors register with a real verified email address? How many of those registered users go to the next level of info-sharing and submit a review (which requires a phone number)? How many registered users persist with visits spanning more than one month and more than 3 months - i.e., how 'sticky' is the site? Visitors who disappear after a month can still be a valuable source of many small donations.

 

(Regarding the suggestions of tiered services... Consider rentment's premier, paid client service wherein members can see private photos that non-members cannot see. Had it not been for the rentboy activity I'd guess that their next step would have been to take the text of reviews and hide it behind a paywall, leaving only the star-ratings available to non-members. I'm not sure that fits with the virtual culture that is unique to Daddy's but taking parts of that type of tiering strategy and leaving it as an option for the future might be prudent. It doesn't have to happen anytime soon but a long-term plan that could include it if needed might be a good idea.)

 

 

Make it easy to give anonymously and casually.

[+ Charlie]

Since I don't hire any longer, my only interest in this site is in preservation of the Message Board fora. I would be happy to pay a reasonable annual fee to participate here.

[mike carey]

Sorry for not chiming in earlier, which may have been a surprise given my prolix reputation, and my tendency to comment too quickly and too often. I pay of the order of $100 a year on three other sites, and this one of greater value to me than them. I would hesitate to recommend a mandatory subscription or standard and premium levels mainly because I suspect it may be costly to develop and maintain, but also because it's not (so far) the sort of site this is and I'd be wary of changing its nature. I would prefer to see voluntary contributions, even if that entailed an occasional PBS-type shout out or fund raiser. From the initial graphs that 'the parliament bomber' posted, it wouldn't take many of the regulars to offer $25 or even less each month to cover the shortfall. But whatever works for Daddy.

 

I agree with the suggestions for payment methods, there needs to be more than one to suit all potential contributors. For me, a solution that allows the use of a credit card is the best if I am to use an electronic method. My bank in Australia charges a flat $AU22 fee (plus whatever the receiving bank charges) for an electronic account to account transfer, so clearly I wouldn't be making a $5 monthly contribution. I don't have a US bank account* so I can't send a cheque [i could send an AUD one, but fees, delays and exchange rates at the US end would have an impact], but cash in the mail would work, and that's probably what I will do.

 

Thanks for pushing this issue, Steven. All seems to be progressing well. I applaud Kurtis for offering to help examine the hosting charges Daddy pays to see if there are savings to be had there, or elsewhere on the technical side. *End of prolixity.*

 

*In years gone by, opening one to use on trips there might have been worthwhile. I did have one when I worked there, long since closed, but with all the credit card arrangements there are far fewer occasions when a US account is needed over a credit card.

[bigvalboy]

Since I don't hire any longer, my only interest in this site is in preservation of the Message Board fora. I would be happy to pay a reasonable annual fee to participate here.

 

FWIW... this is where I'm at also.

[+ Rickee]

Make it easy to give anonymously and casually.

An important consideration to remember, in my opinion.

[+ Rickee]

I did some checking and let me see if any of you have reactions to this template for 3 ways to make donations to Daddy. To be clear I view these 3 not as either/or, but as 3 options that as a set should meet most people's needs.

 

1. Bank to bank electronic transfers.

 

My checking is with B of A and I already use that account to receive rent every month from tenants, pay handymen, etc. These payments can be set up either as one time or regular (e.g. "monthly") debits. It is very easy for me to do if it is B of A to B of A but I have also used it with other major banks, and there is no fee - so for example tenants to can use it to pay rent from a non- B of A account. That can take longer (several days rather than immediately) but it works fine and is free.

 

Speaking only for myself, this is the way I plan to donate $50 a month because it is easy, I can do it quickly from home, and it doesn't involve doing anything other than a one time set up. (It of course requires private bank account info that we won't talk about openly on the website).

 

2. Google Wallet

 

Daddy already stated he has a Google Wallet account set up. I did a quick check of the Google Wallet For Dummies set up guide and it seems pretty simple and Google/Android is obviously a popular platform. The only downside I can see is that transfers are free on both ends if you are using Google Wallet or a bank account (checking or savings) to pay from, but if you use a debit or credit card there is a 2.9 % per transaction fee. To me that means the simplest solution is #1 above, but for people who have Google Wallet set up or prefer to use it it seems like a good option on both the giving end and on Daddy's end. Another possible downside is I am pretty sure most big banks will let you set up monthly auto-pays, so I will set mine to send Daddy $50 a month automatically, whereas I'm not sure if Google Wallet has a similar feature.

 

3. Snail mail

 

The other part of the template that makes sense to me is the old fashioned way: snail mail. This will work for people who prefer more anonymity including those that simply want to send cash or a money order. For reasons stated above by several people it is by far the most cumbersome solution, but for some people it may be the only comfortable option.

 

With any of the three above BVB's suggestion is good, which you could pledge $5 a month, but for reasons of simplicity make one $60 payment either through a bank transfer, Google Wallet, or a check via snail mail.

 

To be clear, also, my view is that we should set an aggregate goal and a timeframe. What I mean by timeframe, for example, is I am thinking I will set up a monthly donation from my B of A account for one year, from May 2016 to May 2017. Several people have made excellent suggestions about looking at this long-term, from the revenue side. I strongly agree with this idea, but I also agree that with Daddy's consent it make sense to step back, take a breath, think it through carefully, and do it in a way that adds value rather than takes away "free" stuff that will cause a negative reaction. For example the idea of "premium services" could make sense with some type of payment platform. I don't see any reason to rush to do anything like that, but I really appreciate Daddy's openness to letting us participate in a discreet process to help make a great website even better.

 

I'm putting all this out there as trial balloons for a general platform for ways to help. Reactions? Has anyone used Google Wallet?

All three of these options are useful for different users.

 

For me, I wouldn't use Option 1 -- I avoid "automatic" deductions for just about everything (I still do most transactions electronically with all my payment information saved, but I still maintain control by having to press the "pay bill" button each month).

 

I probably wouldn't use Option 2 either -- primarily becuz I just don't trust any more what Google does with my information. Call me paranoid.

 

I'd use (and just did use) Option 3 snail mail. But it's a bit inconvenient, and my guess is that some (many?) donations will be lost becuz while the donor fully intended to send it along, it simply got forgotten in the malaise of daily life.

 

I'd like to advocate an Option 4 -- the credit card payment option. Sure there are fees to contend with that will hurt the bottom line, but I'd venture that the quantity of donations (particularly the SPONTANEOUS ones I mentioned previously) could more than offset the fees charged. I'd defer to others as to the most economical (and DISCREET) way to process credit card transactions, but let's face it -- it's how money flows these days. And I'll double-emphasize my earlier points that it's EASY, and it facilitates SPONTANEOUS gestures of good will.

 

Regardless of the option(s) offered, I think it's absolutely tactful to mention rather prominently via a headline banner (or whatever) that the Forum and Reviews essentially are the work of volunteers -- but there are additional "hard" costs that cannot be denied. A thoughtful, humble, and well-worded appeal for modest support from the users would serve Daddy well I think. But it's all in the presentation.

[+ José Soplanucas]

All three of these options are useful for different users.

 

For me, I wouldn't use Option 1 -- I avoid "automatic" deductions for just about everything (I still do most transactions electronically with all my payment information saved, but I still maintain control by having to press the "pay bill" button each month).

 

I probably wouldn't use Option 2 either -- primarily becuz I just don't trust any more what Google does with my information. Call me paranoid.

 

I'd use (and just did use) Option 3 snail mail. But it's a bit inconvenient, and my guess is that some (many?) donations will be lost becuz while the donor fully intended to send it along, it simply got forgotten in the malaise of daily life.

 

I'd like to advocate an Option 4 -- the credit card payment option. Sure there are fees to contend with that will hurt the bottom line, but I'd venture that the quantity of donations (particularly the SPONTANEOUS ones I mentioned previously) could more than offset the fees charged. I'd defer to others as to the most economical (and DISCREET) way to process credit card transactions, but let's face it -- it's how money flows these days. And I'll double-emphasize my earlier points that it's EASY, and it facilitates SPONTANEOUS gestures of good will.

 

Regardless of the option(s) offered, I think it's absolutely tactful to mention rather prominently via a headline banner (or whatever) that the Forum and Reviews essentially are the work of volunteers -- but there are additional "hard" costs that cannot be denied. A thoughtful, humble, and well-worded appeal for modest support from the users would serve Daddy well I think. But it's all in the presentation.

 

Option 4 is also my favorite. In the meanwhile, this lazy fat lady is moving her big ass and dropping an envelope in the mailbox with her first donation this weekend.

[+ quoththeraven]

I volunteer to do the legal backstopping of any longer-term revenue model, although we also need someone familiar with banking and financial laws and regs (not necessarily a lawyer), which I'm not. We are talking here about the MF, not the review site. (Or at least I think we are.)

 

It is probably more helpful to everyone for access to the reviews to remain free, but that may also necessitate greater separation between the two sites. (I say "sites" because they use different URLs.)

[+ stevenkesslar]

This is just a technical update relating to B of A's website and a question regarding other major banks' models.

 

As far as I can tell, the B of A platform allows at least 2 "good" giving models.

 

The one I plan to use and that I personally like best is a "recurring payment" or "bill pay" model. So, for example, I will make an annual pledge and then have a monthly $50 automatically paid out. I have used this feature before unrelated to this issue and what I believe it means is that my bank will cut a check monthly and mail it. The info they need is all the stuff Daddy has already provided - a name (WinkWinkNodNodLLC), an address (Daddy's PO Box), a phone number.

 

Another even simpler model is I can use an email address and make a ONE TIME donation. However, using this model I can not set up recurring payments.

 

It is already clear that some of us are willing to do an annual pledge for the next year, and some would prefer to do a one time donation. So both of these provide options for B of A.

 

My question is this: could others check on their bank websites and see if the same two options are available for the other major banks; e.g. Wells Fargo, Chase, Citibank, etc. I think most large banks have a recurring payment or bill pay model that you can set up for any business or individual you want.

 

Again snail mail is clearly an option some people like and that can be done completely anonymously but the info I'm trying to draw out here is what options the main banks provide electronically that are simple and easy.

 

Thanks.

[+ stevenkesslar]

Since I don't hire any longer, my only interest in this site is in preservation of the Message Board fora. I would be happy to pay a reasonable annual fee to participate here.

 

FWIW... this is where I'm at also.

 

This is a broad follow up question to Charlie, BVB, and others who think the idea of an "annual fee" or "membership fee" makes sense as a long term solution. The intent is simply to draw out ideas at this point. The general question is can you say more about what IS and IS NOT within your comfort level?

 

I've already weighed in that I think any kind of mandatory membership fee could throw the baby out with the bathwater so it should be considered very carefully. So here's some targeted questions: 1) Does something like $5 a month/$60 a year seem reasonable? 2) Would you need to actually pay it monthly through some kind of autopay, to make it more affordable, or could you live with setting it up as a one time fee, which I think would eliminate a lot of administrative hassle? 3) Do you think it should be mandatory, or voluntary? 4) If voluntary, what would you want to "get" in return for it - recognition, some type of premium services, or just that good feeling in your groin?

[bigvalboy]

This is a broad follow up question to Charlie, BVB, and others who think the idea of an "annual fee" or "membership fee" makes sense as a long term solution. The intent is simply to draw out ideas at this point. The general question is can you say more about what IS and IS NOT within your comfort level?

 

I've already weighed in that I think any kind of mandatory membership fee could throw the baby out with the bathwater so it should be considered very carefully. So here's some targeted questions: 1) Does something like $5 a month/$60 a year seem reasonable? 2) Would you need to actually pay it monthly through some kind of autopay, to make it more affordable, or could you live with setting it up as a one time fee, which I think would eliminate a lot of administrative hassle? 3) Do you think it should be mandatory, or voluntary? 4) If voluntary, what would you want to "get" in return for it - recognition, some type of premium services, or just that good feeling in your groin?

 

As I mentioned before, a $5 dollar fee would be something that I would be agreeable to and something that I don't believe would be financially burdensome, for myself and many others here. I would not be opposed to someone debiting my card annually to cover the membership fee. I would want it paid annually only, and it should not be mandatory...IMO. A mandatory fee might discourage membership. There are few things more frustrating than going to a website to log on, only to have a drop box appear saying that it cost $5.95 to join.

 

I also would definitely not want any sort of recognition. Nothing public. That would almost be like shaming people into contributing, or pointing fingers at those who hadn't. The forum should be, in my opinion, the same for everyone. If the goal here is to keep the website financially sound and operating, then I think that there are many here who financially could absorb $60, and would be willing to share the wealth as it were, but don't underestimate those that can't. So whatever is done, it should be done discreetly and with sensitivity to those who are financially burdened and unable to help.

 

*If I am to contribute, I would however, require a nude autographed picture of my Kessie by the pool...

[+ stevenkesslar]

I would wager that most of those 75,000 pairs of eyes would prefer to be behind a pair of opaque sunglasses and remain unknown. I'm not talking about dark market, Silk Road stuff, but something similar to the porn model of 3rd party billers like ProBiller or Epoch (which I believe Seancody uses). As has been mentioned there are fees associated with these upwards of 15% but including these sorts of options,

 

I probably wouldn't use Option 2 either -- primarily becuz I just don't trust any more what Google does with my information. Call me paranoid.

 

I'd like to advocate an Option 4 -- the credit card payment option. Sure there are fees to contend with that will hurt the bottom line, but I'd venture that the quantity of donations (particularly the SPONTANEOUS ones I mentioned previously) could more than offset the fees charged.

 

Again, I'm just trying to come up with clarifying or "take it one step further" type questions.

 

Rickee, what is the difference in your mind between Options 2 and 4? Google Wallet does include a credit or debit card option, but that involves I believe a 2.9 % fee. It may also involve some extra hoops to set up if you are not set up for Google Wallet already. But as Keith pointed out, I think most credit card processing platforms charge much higher percentages. Also, I don't think any of these options allow complete anonymity, since you have to give them your credit card info.

 

One of the platforms that was mentioned was cc.bill so here is a brief summary of some of their features:

 

https://www.cardpaymentoptions.com/credit-card-processors/ccbill/

 

The immediate downside to me is it sounds like there is anywhere from $500 to $1500 in set up or annual fees, plus whatever the per transaction fees are. In the long run, that could be well worth it. In the short term, it just digs the hole a little deeper and take a significant amount of time to set up. I'm thinking that as an immediate or transitional tool if we feel a credit/debit card option is needed, Google Wallet makes sense, since its cheapest and we're talking about a low volume of transactions I think. I put it on the list because it is a tool that allows use of credit cards as opposed to checking or savings accounts or checks/cash/money orders.

 

This is exactly why I think it makes sense to view this as a two step process where we set something up for the next year to put out any immediate fires and then a small group of people privately explore longer-term solutions. If we move toward a voluntary or annual membership fee with a monthly pay option using credit cards something like ccbill or any of the other 3rd party billers mentioned might make sense, but that really needs to be researched and thought through.

[+ stevenkesslar]

If I am to contribute, I would however, require a nude autographed picture of my Kessie by the pool...

 

Before or after that blow job we talked about?

[mike carey]

Steve, to follow up on my previous comment for other potential Australian contributors, and probably for other non-US forum members.

• Cheques are used far less here than it appears they are in the US. Credit unions and building societies used to provide counter cheques for members to pay bills but almost everything is either electronic or cash now. In any case cheques were only issued in AUD.
  
• Banks will issue bank cheques (cashiers checks?) in USD but fees are not small.
  
• Bank fees for electronic transfers to the US are high (and flat fees rather than %), but such transfers are possible (I am unfamiliar with the sort of account details that are needed to complete a transaction, they differ from the relatively simple domestic ones here).
  
• Credit or debit cards are the simplest and cheapest option, but I recognise that accepting them has its issues in the US, including the cost of many of them.
   
  
• Cash through the mail remains a reasonable option, even if there are risks. [i'm happy to send this sort of payment by mail, if it were lost in transit I wouldn't re-send that payment, but I would send the next one. I would not use the post to make a cash payment that had to get through.]
  

[+ José Soplanucas]

As I mentioned before, a $ 5 dollar fee would be something that I would be agreeable to and something that I don't believe would be financially burdensome, for myself and many others here. I would want it paid annually only, and it should not be mandatory...IMO. A mandatory fee might discourage membership, I also would definitely not want any sort of recognition. Nothing public. That would almost be like shaming people into contributing, or pointing fingers at those who hadn't. The forum should be, in my opinion, the same for everyone. If the goal here is to keep the website financially sound and operating, then I think that there are many here who financially could absorb $60, and would be willing to share the wealth as it were, but don't underestimate those that can't. So whatever is done, it should be done discreetly and with sensitivity to those who are financially burdened and unable to help.

 

If I am to contribute, I would however, require a nude autographed picture of my Kessie by the pool...

That is a great idea, seriously. Our escorts could donate exclusive autographed pictures to Daddy, who then would submit them in return as a thank you gift to the client donors. Tailored to your favorite boy.

[+ Keith30309]

 

This is exactly why I think it makes sense to view this as a two step process where we set something up for the next year to put out any immediate fires and then a small group of people privately explore longer-term solutions. If we move toward a voluntary or annual membership fee with a monthly pay option using credit cards something like ccbill or any of the other 3rd party billers mentioned might make sense, but that really needs to be researched and thought through.

 

Precisely - the whole problem doesn't have to be solved at once.

An agile approach of implementing small, incremental improvements as the strategic vision is solidified will work wonderfully.

Mike's (?) suggestion of a simple reminder banner can be implemented today... in 2 weeks a Venmo-based payment option could be live... in 4 weeks more will be understood about direct payment options and the web content developed and enabled... 4 weeks after that the credit card/Paypal option vetted and supporting web structure rolled out... 4 weeks later an understanding of strategy for other payment options (such as block-chain options) (though I suspect this is a high-initial-cost/low-payback option in today's environment).

 

 

At the same time, a separate parallel discussion around content access & presentation and membership... is it a good idea to have tiers... is it a good idea to restrict any review content... is it even a good idea to publicly designate contributors... how to identify the necessary legal structure to keep Daddy and everyone prudently protected.

[For what it's worth, I agree with BVB - there should be no linkage between access and dollars, for the forum or reviews. The drama that already occurs would multiply multi-fold if some feel they have a greater right to express their opinion than others because they have given money. That's a content-suppressing third-rail that should be rigorously avoided.]