Lady players: Serena Williams unloads on tournament director for sexist comments.

[marylander1940]

This is 2016, yes? Just making sure. Because Raymond Moore, the director of this weekend's BNP Paribas Open tournament at Indian Wells, apparently set his watch back about four decades prior to a media Q&A Sunday. Moore answered a question about the Women's Tennis Association by basically chopping female tennis players off at the knees.

 

"In my next life when I come back I want to be someone in the WTA," Moore said, "because they ride on the coattails of the men. They don't make any decisions and they are lucky. They are very very lucky. If I was a lady player, I'd go down every night on my knees and thank God that Roger Federer and Rafa Nadal were born, because they have carried this sport. They really have."

 

Yep. You hear that, "lady players"? Stop complaining about equivalent purses and start thanking the men like good women should!

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/blogs/tennis-busted-racquet/serena-williams-unloads-on-tournament-director-for-sexist-comments-003433818.html

[+ WilliamM]

• http://a.espncdn.com/combiner/i?img=/i/columnists/espn_generic_m.jpg&w=80&h=80&scale=crop
  

 

• Novak Djokovic Questions Whether Women Deserve Equal Pay in Tennis
  

World No.1 Novak Djokovic has questioned equal prize money in tennis, suggesting men deserve to be paid more than women.

 

Djokovic was speaking after he claimed victory in the BNP Paribas Open at Indian Wells and defended the use of statistics to determine the purse at joint events.

 

Earlier on Sunday, the event's CEO Raymond Wells had claimed the WTA rode"on the coattails of the men".

 

Serb Djokovic described those comments as "not politically correct", however, while he praised the women's game for its efforts on equal pay he said that men "should fight for more".

 

"Obviously it's a very delicate situation," he said. "Women deserve respect and admiration for what they are doing. You know, equal prize money was the main subject of the tennis world in the last seven, eight years.

 

"I have been through that process as well so I understand how much power and energy WTA and all the advocates for equal prize money have invested in order to reach that..."

[+ WilliamM]

Again from ESPN. The battle now includes Martina Navratilova against Novak Djokovic. Moore is the tournament director at Indian Well, a tournament completed on Sunday. It's a strange move by Djokovic who is easily #1 (with almost double the tournament point as #2) because fans still adore Federer and Nadal, not Novak Djokovic.

 

"Moore has since apologised for his remarks, which drew criticism from world No.1 Serena Williams following her final defeat to Victoria Azarenka.

 

Navratilova was also disappointed by comments from men's world No.1 Novak Djokovic, who questioned equal prize money in tennis, suggesting men deserve to be paid more than women.

 

"Novak Djokovic, as much as I love him, clearly doesn't understand why, when women and men play in combined tournaments, they must be paid equally," added Navratilova. "I thought we settled that issue years ago."

 

Speaking after he claimed a record fifth Indian Wells title with victory overMilos Raonic , the Serb said men should fight for more prize money.

 

"Obviously it's a very delicate situation," said Djokovic. "Women deserve respect and admiration for what they are doing. You know, equal prize money was the main subject of the tennis world in the last seven, eight years.

 

"On the other hand I think that our men's tennis world, ATP world, should fight for more because the stats are showing that we have much more spectators on the men's tennis matches."

[mike carey]

I firmly believe in equal pay for equal work.

Men's tennis best of 5 sets.

Ladies tennis best of 3 sets.

I think I'm correct in saying that only four tournaments (five in leap years) have five-set games for men. [The four grand-slam tournaments and the Olympics.] Davis Cup is also five-set but it's a men only competition and there's no prize money.

[+ WilliamM]

I think I'm correct in saying that only four tournaments (five in leap years) have five-set games for men. [The four grand-slam tournaments and the Olympics.] Davis Cup is also five-set but it's a men only competition and there's no prize money

 

The four grand-slam tournaments are by far the most important events in tennis. Yes, winning Master 1000 tournaments and being ranked #1 are also important, but greatness in tennis is based on grand slam wins. A grand slam tournament is a major challenge for the men. To win a grand slam, the men have to win seven matches (best of five sets) over two weeks.

 

This is the golden age of mens' tennis because three players, all still playing, have won more than ten grand slams (Federer: 17; Nadal: 14, Djokovic: 11).

[+ Charlie]

Ray Moore resigned as CEO of Indian Wells last night. I have some sympathy for him, because those were offhand remarks he made in response to a question at a breakfast meeting on Sunday morning, and he obviously didn't consider them ahead of time. He is an old guy (well, younger than I) who has done a great job at Indian Wells over many years, and is being crucified for a thoughtless remark in an ebullient mood at the end of one of his most successful tournaments. Incidentally, he was one of those who pushed for equal pay for women at his tournament.

[zeyfur]

There are ways and means of expressing your opinion. To suggest that men should be paid more than women when they play five sets and women three sets is legitimate and can be argued.

 

But to say women players should go down on their knees and thank God for male players is deeply offensive and not a reasonable or rational argument.

[+ WilliamM]

Better game for all

 

NOVAK DJOKOVIC·TUESDAY, MARCH 22, 2016

Dear all,

I typically use this page to share my excitement with you, especially after big wins.

But this time I had to take a few deep breaths before addressing you. As you may have seen, I was asked to comment on a controversy that wasn’t of my making. Euphoria and adrenalin after the win on Sunday got the best of me and I’ve made some comments that are not the best articulation of my view, and I would like to clarify them.

As you all know, I care deeply about the future of the game and all of the players. Tennis helped me so much in my life and being where I am today, I felt the need to speak about the fairer and better distribution of funds across the board - this was meant for both men and women. We all have to fight for what we deserve. This was never meant to be made into a fight between genders and differences in pay, but in the way all players are rewarded for their play and effort.

Tennis is a sport that I love and that gave me the opportunity to help others who still have a long way to go to achieve their dreams. This was my view all along and I want to apologize to anyone who has taken this the wrong way

[+ purplekow]

There have been periods of time when the male players were the draws and there were times when women players were the draws. The real money in Tennis is in the endorsements. The top tennis players could live off endorsements without ever taking in a purse (and some have). The top players also have appearance contracts, so that lesser tournaments can advertise the presence of name players. The gracious thing to do would be to admit that the best players are overpaid and the lower level players are getting by whether they are men or women.

Perhaps we should contact the Russian gambling cartels to ask whose matches are more expensive to fix.

Shouldn't we have a sports forum to discuss this kind of thing?

[Kenny]

Djoko: "I want to apologize to anyone who has taken this the wrong way."

 

A classic non-apology apology. "I did nothing bad, you took it the wrong way." Uh, what? That's an apology? He's apologizing for them not understanding??

 

Maybe it's a Serbian thing.

[+ Charlie]

I understand what is politically correct in this issue (Novak does, too, which is why he is quickly backing off the argument he tried to make, that men need to fight for what they think they deserve, even if it means claiming they deserve more than women for whatever reason). Ray Moore chose his language and images badly, but I understand his feeling that the women players have profited from the excitement generated by the men's game more than vice versa. As with most professional sports, the men's game brings in more money in sponsorships and attendance than the women's does. Serena pointed out that at the past US Open, the women's final sold out earlier than the men's. What she neglected to say was that the reason was because of all the hype in the media--and not just the sports media--about the fact that she might win the calendar year Grand Slam, which hadn't been done by anyone in 27 years, and hadn't been done by a male player since 1969. When she was upset in the semi-final by Roberta Vinci, and it turned out that the final would instead be played by two good but unheralded Italian women in their 30s, television viewership of the final dropped off considerably from what had been anticipated, and there were noticeable empty seats in the stadium. Roger Federer, Rafa Nadal and Novak Djokovic, three of the greatest players of all time, have ginned up excitement for the tournaments which include both men and women, which do better than the tournaments that are only for women. When fans watch someone like Serena play, they realize how good the women can be, but except for the Williams sisters and Maria Sharapova, the women don't have the kind of celebrity players that can sell the game the way the men do. In fact, the only woman player who can regularly sell tickets these days is Serena, since Venus has been a shadow of her former greatness for several years, and Maria is better known for her beauty and her style than for the quality of her tennis now. Moore was telling something that is well known in the business, but presented it in a tactless way that the women rightfully perceived as insulting.

[+ WilliamM]

 

Djoko: "I want to apologize to anyone who has taken this the wrong way."

 

A classic non-apology apology. "I did nothing bad, you took it the wrong way." Uh, what? That's an apology? He's apologizing for them not understanding??

 

Maybe it's a Serbian thing.

 

I totally agree. And I would have written the same thing if I did not like Novak's take offs so much on the other players, women and men.

[Kenny]

There have been periods of time when the male players were the draws and there were times when women players were the draws. The real money in Tennis is in the endorsements. The top tennis players could live off endorsements without ever taking in a purse (and some have). The top players also have appearance contracts, so that lesser tournaments can advertise the presence of name players. The gracious thing to do would be to admit that the best players are overpaid and the lower

level players are getting by whether they are men or women.

Perhaps we should contact the Russian gambling cartels to ask whose matches are more expensive to fix.

Shouldn't we have a sports forum to discuss this kind of thing?

 

"The top tennis players could live off endorsements without ever taking in a purse (and some have)."

 

If it's called a purse, the women really should be paid more....!

[+ Charlie]

Iago: "He who steals my purse steals trash."

[+ WilliamM]

The top tennis players could live off endorsements without ever taking in a purse (and some have)

.

 

Gay or Straight, Gregor Dimitrov must have magical sexy dude powers. We know he has been a long-time boyfriend of Maria Sharapova and Serena Williams (not at the same time). And I got through this entire post without the p word.

[BSR]

I understand what is politically correct in this issue (Novak does, too, which is why he is quickly backing off the argument he tried to make, that men need to fight for what they think they deserve, even if it means claiming they deserve more than women for whatever reason). Ray Moore chose his language and images badly, but I understand his feeling that the women players have profited from the excitement generated by the men's game more than vice versa. As with most professional sports, the men's game brings in more money in sponsorships and attendance than the women's does. Serena pointed out that at the past US Open, the women's final sold out earlier than the men's. What she neglected to say was that the reason was because of all the hype in the media--and not just the sports media--about the fact that she might win the calendar year Grand Slam, which hadn't been done by anyone in 27 years, and hadn't been done by a male player since 1969. When she was upset in the semi-final by Roberta Vinci, and it turned out that the final would instead be played by two good but unheralded Italian women in their 30s, television viewership of the final dropped off considerably from what had been anticipated, and there were noticeable empty seats in the stadium. Roger Federer, Rafa Nadal and Novak Djokovic, three of the greatest players of all time, have ginned up excitement for the tournaments which include both men and women, which do better than the tournaments that are only for women. When fans watch someone like Serena play, they realize how good the women can be, but except for the Williams sisters and Maria Sharapova, the women don't have the kind of celebrity players that can sell the game the way the men do. In fact, the only woman player who can regularly sell tickets these days is Serena, since Venus has been a shadow of her former greatness for several years, and Maria is better known for her beauty and her style than for the quality of her tennis now. Moore was telling something that is well known in the business, but presented it in a tactless way that the women rightfully perceived as insulting.

Well looky here, Charlie and I actually agree on something.

 

I have always been a bit troubled by equal prize money in tennis. If you look at the biggest tournaments outside the Slams, there is a huge disparity in separate men's and women's tournaments. The Italian Open for men has more than 50% more prize money than their WTA counterpart. Lest you accuse the Italians of sexism, there's a similar prize disparity between the two Canadian Opens. And at the tournament in question, before the tournament organizers started branding it as a co-ed "Grand Slam" style event, the Indian Wells men's side paid out 50+% more than the women's side.

 

Across the board, there is far more prize money at ATP tournaments than at WTA tourneys at every level, all the way from the big Masters 1000s down to the Challengers. Why? Because men's tennis gets more ticket sales, more lucrative TV contracts, and more corporate sponsors than women's tennis. If the men have more drawing power, then why shouldn't they get more money?

 

Before some maven of political correctness starts screeching about sexism, let's take a look at doubles players, who make but a fraction of what singles players make, and the discrepancy is far greater than it is between men and women. But again, market forces are at work. Doubles finals at the Slams are played to near-empty stadiums, and they register almost a zero in TV ratings. Nobody has a problem with the big gap in doubles vs. singles pay due to market forces, so why get all bent out of shape when someone points out market differences in men's prize money vs. women's? If one argues for women to get equal prize money, regardless of market forces, then why do we never hear that same person arguing for equal pay in doubles. If you're going to disregard some market numbers, then you should throw out all market numbers.

 

By the way, the top male players like Novak aren't worried about their bottom line. Novak's already made $3.6+ million so far in 2016, and it's not even the end of March! The top male players recently advocated for a very disproportionate increase in tournament prize money for the early rounds and even qualifying. The top guys are multizillionaires, but outside of the top 50, some guys aren't even breaking even (travel expenses in tennis are staggering). Novak spoke out because he knows nobody will listen to the likes of his friend & countryman Filip Krajinovic, ranked #103, who probably hasn't earned enough this year to cover his expenses. The ones most bothered by equal pay for women are the rank & file, the journeymen of the men's game, who believe that the equal prize money for women means the men get shorted.

 

PS: There are only two women who sell tickets - Serena Williams and Maria Sharapova. Maria just got busted for a banned performance-enhancing drug. She will likely be suspended from the game for at least a year.

[mike carey]

The men may draw more ticket sales than the women, but I can only comment on how it works at the Australian Open. Tickets are sold for the afternoon and evening sessions in the outer courts in the early phases and for the show courts all through the tournament. A ticket covers the whole session, either afternoon or evening and there will be women's and men's games in both. Top notch men's and women's games will both fill the stadium.

[BSR]

The men may draw more ticket sales than the women, but I can only comment on how it works at the Australian Open. Tickets are sold for the afternoon and evening sessions in the outer courts in the early phases and for the show courts all through the tournament. A ticket covers the whole session, either afternoon or evening and there will be women's and men's games in both. Top notch men's and women's games will both fill the stadium.

First of all, Mike, I'm guessing you're a casual tennis fan at best, because they're referred to as "matches," not "games." Yes, both top men's matches and women's matches can fill a stadium, but how many top matches are there in each half? On the men's side, a top match is any match featuring Novak, Andy, Rafa, Roger, and Stan. On the women's side, there's Serena. Period. As I pointed out, Maria, the only other draw, will be out of the game for at least a year.

 

The next tier of men still have more than decent drawing power: Slam champions Marin Cilic and Juan-Martín Del Potro, Kei Nishikori (the highest ranked Japanese player in history), Milos Raonic (highest ranked Canuck in history), JW Tsonga, Tomas Berdych, Grigor Dimitrov (granted, probably more for his scorching sex appeal, but hey, he fills the seats). The next tier of women? Not so much.

 

But don't just take my word for it. Take a look at the prize money for men's tournaments vs. the women's tour the past few years. The prize money at men's tournaments has been rising like crazy while WTA prize money has been fairly stagnant. The only increases on the women's side happen when tournaments like Indian Wells and Madrid switch to a "Grand Slam" (that is, co-ed) format and are pressured into equal prize money.

[mike carey]

First of all, Mike, I'm guessing you're a casual tennis fan at best, because they're referred to as "matches," not "games."

Thank you for patronising me. Some people are concerned with precise words others are not. You seem to be happy to disparage others for not conforming to your prescriptions of how the world works. Whether it's a tennis game or match is hardly a big deal. Except for it to be an avenue for your condescension. You have railed against Bill Clinton being a rapist and Hillary being a rape enabler. This is no more than a conservative trope to condemn someone you don't like. You don't like Clinton so his alleged sexual impropriety is rape, and his wife's failure to accuse him of rape is 'rape enabling'. Rape is a crime that requires proof in a court of law not a casual accusation. You and conservative politicians can say whatever you like, fevered accusations against the Clintons do not prove anything. 'Proof' may emerge later but it hasn't yet.

[BSR]

Thank you for patronising me. Some people are concerned with precise words others are not. You seem to be happy to disparage others for not conforming to your prescriptions of how the world works. Whether it's a tennis game or match is hardly a big deal. Except for it to be an avenue for your condescension. You have railed against Bill Clinton being a rapist and Hillary being a rape enabler. This is no more than a conservative trope to condemn someone you don't like. You don't like Clinton so his alleged sexual impropriety is rape, and his wife's failure to accuse him of rape is 'rape enabling'. Rape is a crime that requires proof in a court of law not a casual accusation. You and conservative politicians can say whatever you like, fevered accusations against the Clintons do not prove anything. 'Proof' may emerge later but it hasn't yet.

My my, looky who just put on his crankypants! I just love it when I get liberals' panties in a twist *snort*

 

You will note that I bring up Bill Clinton (or the Fast & the Furious, or Ted Kennedy, or Robert Byrd, or Charlie Rangel, or Hillary Clinton ... or ... or ... or ... ) only when liberals start making nasty attacks on conservatives or Republicans. As I've said before, I don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Everyone was quite civil in this thread, so I was civil. Well, everyone except you just now.

 

The point I was making is don't act like you know something about tennis when you obviously don't know much about the sport. Sorry, but saying men's and women's "games" instead of "matches" is a dead giveaway. My guess is some of the spite in your response stems from the embarrassment of being exposed.

[mike carey]

Your condescension know no bounds.

[BSR]

Your condescension know no bounds.

Despite being born & raised Catholic, despite Catholic schooling K through 12, and despite more years as an altar boy than I can count, the one teaching of Christ I have never grasped is "turn the other cheek." My motto is more "payback's a bitch."

 

When I exposed your relative ignorance about the sport of tennis, instead of showing a speck of humility, you play the victim and accuse me of condescension. And then out of the wide blue yonder you start ranting about Bill Clinton and the legal definition of rape ... huh wha??

 

Hey, plenty of times in my life I have pretended to know more than I did. I think just about everybody does on occasion. But in the event I'm busted, I don't get all nasty toward the person who exposed me. I do the gracious thing & shut my yap. But you and I are obviously very different people.

 

Now then, somebody please explain why women should get equal prize money but not doubles and mixed doubles players.

[mike carey]

But you and I are obviously very different people.

We are indeed.

[Kenny]

Thank you for patronising me.

Watch out, Mike. BSR will go after your spelling of patronizing as "foreign." It's in the conservative troll handbook.

[BSR]

We are indeed.

Does that mean that the next time I expose you and you get embarrassed, maybe just maybe you won't get all nasty & spiteful? Please oh please ...