Closeted Escorts and Gaydar

[+ purplekow]

I recently had an encounter with a very handsome and sexy escort. We had a great time and as he was leaving he asked if I wanted to go out to dinner sometime. He then went on to say that he was gay but in the closet and he likes to socialize with other men who do not set off gaydar and most of his clients do.

I have spoken to several clients who have as a requirement that the escort be "masculine" and not appear to be gay.

Sexual turn-ons aside, is this a common consideration? I do prefer my escorts on the muscularly built side but

I have not hesitated to go out socially with escorts or clients and I have never given the gaydar aspect much consideration.

Comments.

[+ honcho]

I would find this disheartening. I'm not going to trash the escort, but I thought we had gotten to the point

in a number of major cities that whether or not one is gay or femme or masculine was irrelevant and I find

the guilt-by-association implication regrettable.

 

Only a couple of people in the forum have met me in real life, I don't go out of my way to starch my wrists,

but I come across much more as died-in-the-wool-nerd and a peter-pan-perenial-inner-adolescent.

 

When I was a math graduate student spending a year in paris living in a dorm there (Cite Universitaire)

I heard somebody putting down gay people, and took the opportunity to publicly out myself and confront the

speaker, as a great opportunity for consciousnous raising.

 

People were surprised that I was, but supported the action.

[geminibear]

I'm going to reluctantly way in here.

 

Like Honcho only a couple of people on this forum have met me in real life.

 

I come off as hyper masculine in my life. It's not an act, it's just who I am. Probably a lot to do with me being raised in rural mountains by a pretty rugged dad. Who knows? Nature or nurture right?

 

Nobody's gaydar has ever been triggered by my presence. And while I truly enjoy the company of masculine men, even prefer it, I feel that this has been a hindrance for me socially. I also am a bit of a nerd. I suffer from social awkwardness. Not much in the looks department, and as middle age has approached I truly fall into the "bear" category. So I am not the masculine stud that fellow masculine guys seem to be looking for.

 

Back to my social hindrance by being under the gaydar as masculine, I find it extremely difficult to meet gay men, who have similar interests with me. To develop friendships or relationships.

 

I am not in the closet. If somebody would ask I would tell them I am gay just nobody ever asks.

 

I often feel that I have missed out on all the "gay" fun. Like an observer watching from a distance.

 

So there is my 2 cents.

[corndog]

Within the gay community, I think that the word "masculine" is loaded with self-hate. It's right up there with "straight acting," and especially prevalent on hookup apps like grindr. I'd really like to see a guy describe himself as "straight acting" while he's taking it up the butt. There is nothing whatsoever "straight acting" about hooking up and having sex with other guys.

 

I have nothing against guys, like geminibear, who are naturally masculine, but to focus on this characteristic is to inherently judge any other behavior as inferior. From time to time, I've wondered whether others perceive me to be gay, but I try not to think much about it. We should each accept our own natural demeanor.

[+ Truereview]

Great post and question, I'm also in awe of such thoughtful and authentic responses...so far . Geminibear....wow, baby!

 

I'm reaching that age when everyone around me is younger...sigh..,which makes me wonder if life experience has anything to do with this. I know some very wise young gents who would totally agree with corndog's wisdom above...I do detect self-hate and fear in the statement, BUT we have all being ignorant about something at some point in our lives, right? I wouldn't judge this closeted guy too quickly bc he probably just lacks experience. I would not pass up a dinner opportunity to find out more and see if his arc in life is broader or just as limited as his view on masculinity.

 

PS - also, how the heck does one define masculinity?

[marylander1940]

I recently had an encounter with a very handsome and sexy escort. We had a great time and as he was leaving he asked if I wanted to go out to dinner sometime. He then went on to say that he was gay but in the closet and he likes to socialize with other men who do not set off gaydar and most of his clients do.

I have spoken to several clients who have as a requirement that the escort be "masculine" and not appear to be gay.

Sexual turn-ons aside, is this a common consideration? I do prefer my escorts on the muscularly built side but

I have not hesitated to go out socially with escorts or clients and I have never given the gaydar aspect much consideration.

Comments.

 

"...gay but in the closet and he likes to socialize with other men (NOT YOU) who do not set off gaydar and most of his clients do..."

 

Did just say/insinuated you're flamboyant?

 

I'm not Rambo, but I wonder if I would pass his gaydar test.

 

One more thing, I like escorts who behave in a masculine way, of course except when it comes to kissing guys, giving/receiving head from a guy, fucking and getting fucked and other certainly NOT masculine behavior. LOL

 

I guess he would do a 3some with this couple for the right amount of money, but would never accept going out to dinner with them.

 

http://media.senscritique.com/media/000004673686/source_big/La_Cage_aux_folles.jpg

[Jock123]

I recently had an encounter with a very handsome and sexy escort. We had a great time and as he was leaving he asked if I wanted to go out to dinner sometime. He then went on to say that he was gay but in the closet and he likes to socialize with other men who do not set off gaydar and most of his clients do.

I have spoken to several clients who have as a requirement that the escort be "masculine" and not appear to be gay.

Sexual turn-ons aside, is this a common consideration? I do prefer my escorts on the muscularly built side but

I have not hesitated to go out socially with escorts or clients and I have never given the gaydar aspect much consideration.

Comments.

 

 

Great Topic Purplecow.

 

As an Escort I think what matters to ME the most Is being Considerate. Everyone pays the same but Its nice when I meet those who dont treat me as if I'm being Paid, and they are Present(In the moment). I've seen this from both Feminine and Masculine men. It doesnt matter to me if they come off as masculine or feminine. Funny You mentioned the Escort said most people he met were Feminine. I've had quite the oppisite experience. Id say about 95% of the Clients I have met were Masculine or didnt "Wear their sexuality on their sleeve" And I think this goes for what Geminibear said about his Upbringing. Its not until the past few years or so it's become "Acceptable" to be gay. Hence who so many men from other generations surpressed their feelings and put on a front of being a "man". And as Truereview said.."What even defines Masculinity". However I'm one of those people who are a little turned off If its "Obvious" at least sexually In my real Day to Day life.

[+ azdr0710]

a perennial topic around here.....

 

where is Rick Munroe when a thread needs him?....

[Rudynate]

Now that gays have entered the mainstream and straight guys have become a little more androgynous, it can be difficult to tell who's gay and who's not. I was talking yesterday with an enchanting young neighbor of mine, a Crossfit instructor, covered with tattoos, bulging with muscles and darkly handsome, and I really couldn't tell. I just thought maybe yes, maybe no.

 

He has two roommates and isn't happy where he is now and is interested in my rental unit. They're all Crossfit instructors so I imagine they are all built like he is.

[bigvalboy]

where is Rick Munroe when a thread needs him?....

 

http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjExMjI3MjU1Ml5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwNjUwODkzMTE@._V1_SX214_AL_.jpg

[Wolfer]

I'm one of those people who are a little turned off If its "Obvious" at least sexually In my real Day to Day life.

I seem to be a rare exception to this... I actually get turned on by "obvious" gays. It's even come to the point that I find the word "masculine" quite the turn-off, because it does imply inherent judgement about me and my flamboyancy. For me there's something really sexy in the inherent deviancy and courage of a guy being openly and unapologetically himself. I'm quite the ham myself.

 

I actually feel more at ease if an escort has a bit of pezazz in him. Whether this comes through as flamboyancy, silliness or being whacky, I don't care. But it does make me feel more at ease, because I am all of these things myself, and having had to hide that part for years out of fear of being bullied by masculine straight guys, does not make me feel comfortable or at ease when I'm with a masculine guy, because these fears of being judged or bullied probably get triggered somehow.

 

I'm also a bit prejudiced in that I think when other gay people are annoyed by other "obvious" gays, I always wonder whether this stems from internalized homophobia or self-hatred. When I was just coming out of the closet, I was such a bitch about guys who were "obvious" and didn't want anything to do with them. Until I accepted my inner diva and now I love my cackle of gays.

 

http://ct.weirdnutdaily.com/ol/wn/sw/i37/2/5/29/wnd_8af005fe58f1f82321bb0150ae3bd6de.jpg

[+ glennnn]

"...gay but in the closet and he likes to socialize with other men (NOT YOU) who do not set off gaydar and most of his clients do..."

 

Did just say/insinuated you're flamboyant?

 

I'm not Rambo, but I wonder if I would pass his gaydar test.

 

One more thing, I like escorts who behave in a masculine way, of course except when it comes to kissing guys, giving/receiving head from a guy, fucking and getting fucked and other certainly NOT masculine behavior. LOL

 

I guess he would do a 3some with this couple for the right amount of money, but would never accept going out to dinner with them.

 

http://media.senscritique.com/media/000004673686/source_big/La_Cage_aux_folles.jpg

[+ glennnn]

I've been artistic, mouthy, silly, witty, daring, dramatic (plus any other "gay" adjectives you want to add) my whole life, and I mean from infancy, long before I had any concept of gay or straight. My way to handle the avalanche of abuse society sent my way was to deny being a homosexual and to avoid any and all sexual situations, while continuing to be one of the girls. I actually gloried in doing "gay" things (art, theater, fashion design, cheerleading, ballet, Etc), just to watch the homophobes go nuts over it. I made sure that I was very excellent and successful at all of my sissy pursuits. At the same time, I dated girls, kept my eyes down in the locker room, and avoided the other "obvious faggots" in town, so no one could prove the rumors about me. I lived a completely celibate life, rather than chance being outed.

 

Why? Because nobody could tell ME how to live my life, and fuck those who tried. The irony is they did control how I lived. Their animosity did control what I did and the direction of my life. By being defiant, I lost decades of love and sex that I needed, but wouldn't ask for.

 

My point is embrace who you are. Stop worrying about the condemnation or approbation of others. Stop with the labels.. . Top, bottom, Butch, femne, masculine, Dom, sub, queen, whatever. For God's sake, be yourself and seek out those that make you happy. Life is so short and our sexual life is even shorter. FUCK SOME ONE TODAY.

[rvwnsd]

I recently had an encounter with a very handsome and sexy escort. We had a great time and as he was leaving he asked if I wanted to go out to dinner sometime. He then went on to say that he was gay but in the closet and he likes to socialize with other men who do not set off gaydar and most of his clients do.

I have spoken to several clients who have as a requirement that the escort be "masculine" and not appear to be gay.

Sexual turn-ons aside, is this a common consideration? I do prefer my escorts on the muscularly built side but

I have not hesitated to go out socially with escorts or clients and I have never given the gaydar aspect much consideration.

Comments.

 

As someone else mentioned, men (both straight and gay) these days do not have the same kind of speech patterns that in the past were associated with masculinity. Moreover, people in general are not required to behave in a certain way as they were in the past. Nonetheless, people have preferences. As long as someone who wishes to associate only with men who conform to a stereotype from a bygone day understands that they are limiting their prospects, then more power to them! However, I don't want to hear them bitch and moan because so many guys don't conform to that stereotype.

 

In terms of "masculine" or "straight-acting," I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Yes, I've heard the old saw about a "straight-acting" guy taking it up the butt. I guess that's where the "acting" part comes in. Perhaps we should say "I prefer guys who are not effeminate." Would that be better?

 

Here's an idea: let's worry less about the adjectives people use to describe themselves and more time minding ourselves.

 

PS: To answer PK's question, I see nothing wrong in what this guy is saying. I disagree with him and suspect this statement comes from some self-hatred (which might also be keeping him in the closet) but as he works through his coming out process he might change his stance.

[+ WilliamM]

PS: To answer PK's question, I see nothing wrong in what this guy is saying. I disagree with him and suspect this statement comes from some self-hatred (which might also be keeping him in the closet) but as he works through his coming out process he might change his stance

 

I recently had an encounter with a very handsome and sexy escort. We had a great time and as he was leaving he asked if I wanted to go out to dinner sometime. He then went on to say that he was gay but in the closet and he likes to socialize with other men who do not set off gaydar and most of his clients do.

 

I tend to agree with rvwnsd. However, there's a major problem if the only thing he likes about PK is that he is not obviously gay. A new friend is a good thing, although this 'friendship' has had a difficult beginning. It's really up to purplekow whether or not to accept the dinner suggestion. PK: You know the escort a little. Do you agree with rvwnsd?

[marylander1940]

...

 

My point is embrace who you are. Stop worrying about the condemnation or approbation of others. Stop with the labels.. . Top, bottom, Butch, femne, masculine, Dom, sub, queen, whatever. For God's sake, be yourself and seek out those that make you happy. Life is so short and our sexual life is even shorter. FUCK SOME ONE TODAY.

 

 

Hopefully one day that gay closeted escort will come out of the closet, if he wishes to do so...

[samandtham]

New research has come up recently that seems to dispute the existence of a gaydar. That one is just stereotyping someone when they say a person they met is "setting off their gaydar."

 

In a way, what Rudynate said about the melding of homosexual, bisexual, and heterosexual mens' attitudes and behavior in today's society lends more credence to what researchers have found. You can see someone who you'd consider to be an in-the-closet man, but turn out to be otherwise; and vice versa.

 

http://www.sciencealert.com/study-finds-there-is-no-such-thing-as-gaydar

[+ purplekow]

I tend to agree with rvwnsd. However, there's a major problem if the only thing he likes about PK is that he is not obviously gay. A new friend is a good thing, although this 'friendship' has had a difficult beginning. It's really up to purplekow whether or not to accept the dinner suggestion. PK: You know the escort a little. Do you agree with rvwnsd?

He seems like a nice enough guy. He does present a traditional heterosexual male aura. On the other hand, within a minute in private, his clothes were off and his ass was in the air. In fact, it was a little too quick for me as I usually like the illusion of seducing my partner, even if my partner is an escort. i decided to have lunch with him this weekend without hiring him and he was good with that. I do not see it becoming a regular thing.

[Rudynate]

New research has come up recently that seems to dispute the existence of a gaydar.

 

I've never thought that gaydar was anything intuitive. It's sort of a reflexive reading of subtle behavioral cues and attitudes. Stereotyping? Yes, I guess it would be, but it's a very fine-grained stereotyping done by "experts." And it isn't completely reliable. I know an utterly charming straight guy - leading-man handsome, mustache, touches other men freely, doesn't go for sports, generally has attitudes more typical of a gay man, except that he isn't. I like to say of him that it's an accident of nature that he turned out straight.

 

The other day I was stereotyping in the opposite way. In my BNI group, people do presentations about themselves and their businesses. A guy did one the other day, a straight guy, which revealed him to be a total straight-guy cliche - pictures of himself w/ baseball cap on backwards, owns a pit bull, 49ers fan, likes microbrew places, etc. etc. During his presentation, I had to keep reminding myself that I like him. And I had to bite my tongue not to share with others what I thought. As soon as the meeting was over, I left without speaking to anyone, so that I wouldn't say anything that I would be sorry for later.

[geminibear]

The other day I was stereotyping in the opposite way. In my BNI group, people do presentations about themselves and their businesses. A guy did one the other day, a straight guy, which revealed him to be a total straight-guy cliche - pictures of himself w/ baseball cap on backwards, owns a pit bull, 49ers fan, likes microbrew places, etc. etc. During his presentation, I had to keep reminding myself that I like him. And I had to bite my tongue not to share with others what I thought. As soon as the meeting was over, I left without speaking to anyone, so that I wouldn't say anything that I would be sorry for later.

 

Rudynate you hit on my original comment on this thread, that I am often the straight-guy-cliche, I almost always wear a baseball cap although never backwards(to everyone's surprise I do have a full head of dark hair underneath); I don't have pit bulls but do have rescue mutts which are pretty big and sometimes scary to others until they lick you; definitely not a 49ers fan but a fanatical Broncos fan; I thoroughly enjoy microbrew pubs; most likely I apply to all the other stereotypes etc etc also

 

Many of these traits have left me feeling ostracized from the community.

 

I am one of the clients that truly hires escorts for companionship because of this. I truly enjoy having a buddy willing to go to a brew pub to watch a game, or actually go to the game and enjoy the game, not just to look at hot straight men. If I could find an escort that would go camping with me or 4wheeling, I probably would be in bliss. Don't be fooled I enjoy the other elements of escort time also but the companionship is probably a higher element for me.

 

Sorry for the rant. Glad you truly like the guy and didn't say anything that you would be sorry for later.

 

Gem~

[Rudynate]

Rudynate you hit on my original comment on this thread, that I am often the straight-guy-cliche, I almost always wear a baseball cap although never backwards(to everyone's surprise I do have a full head of dark hair underneath); I don't have pit bulls but do have rescue mutts which are pretty big and sometimes scary to others until they lick you; definitely not a 49ers fan but a fanatical Broncos fan; I thoroughly enjoy microbrew pubs; most likely I apply to all the other stereotypes etc etc also

 

Many of these traits have left me feeling ostracized from the community.

 

I am one of the clients that truly hires escorts for companionship because of this. I truly enjoy having a buddy willing to go to a brew pub to watch a game, or actually go to the game and enjoy the game, not just to look at hot straight men. If I could find an escort that would go camping with me or 4wheeling, I probably would be in bliss. Don't be fooled I enjoy the other elements of escort time also but the companionship is probably a higher element for me.

 

Sorry for the rant. Glad you truly like the guy and didn't say anything that you would be sorry for later.

 

Gem~

 

That's what's so strange about stereotyping. What's cliche in a straight guy becomes interesting in a gay man - he's a standout. I knew a gay couple years ago when I lived in Denver. Both of them were studly good-looking men, both OTR truck drivers, they had lousy taste, they lived in Commerce City, they liked sports, etc., etc. - completely not-gay, except that they were. I really enjoyed them, partly because they were both so hot and friendly, but also such atypical gay men.

[+ glennnn]

Karma is a bitch when you catch yourself prejudging people in ways you HATE to be prejudiced. Due to consistently humiliating and degrading experiences in P E in school, I tend to prepare to dislike any man I meet who fits the "I am first and foremost a jock" stereotype before they can even speak. Fortunately, my job forced me to work with them and I became close friends with several of them. One admitted that he was as surprised as I was at the depth of our friendship. Go figure! Judge not lest ye be judged.

[Guest]

I too find this very disheartening.... It's pretty simple, this person you speak of is not quite there yet, can't blame or punish him, just hope he reaches and evolves to the point of not caring about the perception of others, stands tall with or without validation from others, it's his own internalized emotions that keep him from enjoying wonderful people outside the bedroom. He passed up an opportunity to eat a pickle and drink coffee with you, and that's a pity! Big big hug to you PK!

[rvwnsd]

I too find this very disheartening.... It's pretty simple, this person you speak of is not quite there yet, can't blame or punish him, just hope he reaches and evolves to the point of not caring about the perception of others, stands tall with or without validation from others, it's his own internalized emotions that keep him from enjoying wonderful people outside the bedroom. He passed up an opportunity to eat a pickle and drink coffee with you, and that's a pity! Big big hug to you PK!

Maybe I misread someplace, but I think the guy in question is having lunch with PK this weekend.

[Guest]

Maybe I misread someplace, but I think the guy in question is having lunch with PK this weekend.

Ahhhh I hope so I may have misread and or didn't read the too many of the other posts beyond PK's original post. PK is about as sweet and kind as they get, makes for a lovely dining experience, pickles, coffee, or sushi