When is it friendship and when is it taking advantage?

[actor61]

I'm 63 years old and have a 26 year old, straight friend who seems very attached to me. He made it clear that he was straight when we first met and so any fantasies I might have had were quickly forgotten. I am not one of those foolish, older gay men who thinks he can change somebody! I just thought, "What a nice kid" and got on with things but HE pursued the friendship with phone calls and waiting for me in the parking lot where we both attended classes, and I ended up growing very fond of him. At the time we met, he was a poor student and I was happy to cook dinner for us at my place a couple of times a month, pay for movies once in a while, and let him crash on my couch when he asked. This went on for about 3 years. Then, I moved to another city (I'm retired), and he got a lucrative job on a cruise ship. Last week, he came for a visit and it was disastrous. I recognize the huge age difference, and the difference in our sexual proclivities and accepted and adjusted to them but I was not prepared for the selfishness and the cell phone/computer addiction he displayed when he was here. I was so happy to see his ass go through the security line at the airport yesterday morning after 7 days of playing games all night, sleeping all day, and texting on his cell phone during every meal and conversation that I took myself out for a huge, celebratory breakfast on the way home!

 

Here are my questions.

 

(1) In the entire time he was here, he never even bought me a cup of coffee. I paid for all meals, entertainment and even got a roll of quarters so he could do laundry. If he'd bought me a cheap bouquet of flowers at Trader Joe's or a pint of ice cream to thank me for my hospitality, all would have been forgiven but he didn't make the slightest gesture. We were at a Starbucks one afternoon and he paid for his iced coffee and scone, then left me to pay for my lemonade. When I gently confronted him about this, his response was, "Did you WANT me to pay? You should have said something?" Really????? Was it my responsibility to say "You pay". Is this a generational thing? Am I old fashioned in thinking that paying for your host's cup of coffee once is the polite thing to do?

 

(2) He came out of the shower one evening with a towel wrapped around his waist and I said, "You look great. You're really in good shape now." And his reply was, "And I have a fantastic penis, which you will never see." I had no response. I was shocked, hurt, offended, angry and outraged. I stayed really calm and pleasant though when I told him I thought that was an unnecessary remark to have made. I have NEVER put a move on this boy and in fact, he has said to me a few times how comfortable and safe he feels with me. Am I a doddering old fool too easily hurt? I just really thought it was an offensive statement to make on a lot of levels. Was I over thinking it?

 

On the day before he left, I gently explained my feelings to him and then laughingly told him, 'You're a rotten guest." He just looked at me as though I was from Mars. He honestly didn't get it. He has to return to my city next month for a job interview; I told him he'd have to stay somewhere else. In fact, my exact words were, "You need to be with straight people your own age, not with a 63 year old, gay man." And he said that made him very sad. Holy shit! I just don't know what to think. I've decided to let the friendship atrophy. I don't want a confrontation and at my age, I don't feel like I need to explain things over and over to someone so young and obtuse.

 

My friends say that it's a situation of a young, goodlooking, straight man taking advantage of a generous, 63 year old gay man - a story as old as time. God, I hope I haven't been that naive.

 

I'd love any input. And let me finish by saying - this is basically a good kid. We have serious, intelligent conversations when his nose isn't buried in his cell phone or computer, and he often asks for my opinion on things and says he respects me. Am I right in thinking it's just a gay/straight/generational difference or are my friends right in thinking it's a young hunk working the angles the best he can?

[+ dutchmuch]

I He has to return to my city next month for a job interview; I told him he'd have to stay somewhere else. In fact, my exact words were, "You need to be with straight people your own age, not with a 63 year old, gay man." And he said that made him very sad. Holy shit! I just don't know what to think. I've decided to let the friendship atrophy. I don't want a confrontation and at my age, I don't feel like I need to explain things over and over to someone so young and obtuse.

 

Actor61, good for you. You've got some balls, show more of them!

 

His constant attention to computer and cellular, well that is something he could not do on the cruise ship. He was catching-up?? Still no excuse to essentially shun you.

Me thinks he's leaching off you. In your above writing I never heard him simply say 'thank you'. (I would have shown him the door after the Starbuck experience)

[m.yi]

Was he all gracious and polite while he was still a student but suddenly became a different person when he got his job? He got too comfortable, complacent and has taken advantage of your kindness. You don't need people like those.

[+ Keith30309]

Your friends are right - he found an easy way to get by without expending any effort - in other words, a parasite. I'd ask myself if the friendship and interest he showed was truly genuine or what he felt he needed to do to sustain your support. Maybe he is a good person at heart and doesn't even realize what he's doing, but minimally you were being royally being taken advantage of. Best to take the money and contribute it to a good charity.

[mmk123]

I do think it is a generational thing. I remember being that age but and even though I did not have a lot of money to spend if I was out with a friend he got one round of drinks and I bought the next one, etc. If we were going out to dinner as a group we all paid our own meals and all gave cash for the tip (now we just divide it up 3 or 4 ways since half of it is liquor-lol).

 

I do think a lot of people that age grew up with parents who instilled in them a sense of "self entitlement" to where it is "me first". Many adults of that age (26) are still growing up and have not matured yet so maybe he still needs some more life experiences. In men, I feel from 26 to 30 that there is a lot of growing and maturity that takes place (at least it did with me back then). When he hits 31 or 32 and if he is still like that then there is no hope for him. He will always be self centered and have the "me first" attitude. Hopefully some things you said will make him think.

[leeper]

I agree, your friends are probably right. Alternatively, he may have viewed you like a parent, which also sort of explains the behavior of taking without an expectation of reciprocation.

[Rudynate]

I do think it is a generational thing. I remember being that age but and even though I did not have a lot of money to spend if I was out with a friend he got one round of drinks and I bought the next one, etc. If we were going out to dinner as a group we all paid our own meals and all gave cash for the tip (now we just divide it up 3 or 4 ways since half of it is liquor-lol).

 

I do think a lot of people that age grew up with parents who instilled in them a sense of "self entitlement" to where it is "me first". Many adults of that age (26) are still growing up and have not matured yet so maybe he still needs some more life experiences. In men, I feel from 26 to 30 that there is a lot of growing and maturity that takes place (at least it did with me back then). When he hits 31 or 32 and if he is still like that then there is no hope for him. He will always be self centered and have the "me first" attitude. Hopefully some things you said will make him think.

 

 

+1

[+ stevenkesslar]

On the day before he left, I gently explained my feelings to him and then laughingly told him, 'You're a rotten guest." I've decided to let the friendship atrophy.

 

Sounds like a wise decision. Or, stated differently, in youth and beauty, wisdom is rare.

 

You sound aware of it, but you set this up through years of kind and giving actions which you summarized. And it seems reasonable for him to have grown to expect that his role was to take, and not give. I'm not defending it, just saying that I'd guess he figured things just worked that way, and didn't bother to think about it much.

 

There's nothing gentle about saying "You're a rotten guest." So for you to feel that way and be willing to say it says you probably made a decision that enough is enough, and now you want reinforcement. You got my vote.

 

Assuming you are correct, and it does atrophy, I wouldn't feel bad about anything, especially anything you did. It was a fine affair, and now it's over. You helped a young kid get from having nothing to having something. Kudos to you.

[jawjateck]

You described a young man with many facets, but friend does not describe him. He is definitely lacking in manners. That would not go well for him in my neck of the woods.

[+ WilliamM]

I have a similar relationship with a straight twenty-four years old journalist who is now living in eastern Ukraine and Brussels (lived there for two years). We have split expenses when doing things together, and I have gotten to know his parents on his gentle insistence.

 

However, I would likely feel the same way if journalist guy stayed with me for a week. In Brussels, he lives in cheap housing ("squat"). In Ukraine he lives with the military he is embeded with at the moment, or in a youth hostel.

 

I agree that it is generational thing. Twenty-six years old is younger for a middle-class guy than it used to be. He heard your rightfully strong comments. It's up to him to change a bit if he still wants a relationship with you. But, you know the relationship better than your friends. It is not a group decision. You know him much better than they do, same with the people in this forum. Take a while to make a decision The most important thing: did he really hear you and will he make an effort to change.

[+ not2rowdy]

Maybe he sees you as his father figure.

As such he is looking for a free lunch.

And a place he can stay where he feels safe.

And a place he can just chill out.

And a mentor he can discuss life issues with.

 

Cruise ship work (also merchant marine and navy) can be very stressful. Crew and staff often see very little personal time off during the cruise duration. A safe haven in port is a precious commodity.

 

Have another chat with him (email since he’s gone?). A heart to heart conversation about mutual expectations.

 

Write down your expectations. Ponder over them for at least a day before your send them to him.

 

Remind him that you are from very different generations. Tell him that you miss the closeness your friendship had in the past. Tell him you were hurt by what you perceive to be his selfishness. Not so much as a gesture of appreciation towards you. His focus on gaming and texting.

 

Let him know that you are willing to continue your platonic friendship but there needs to be more effort on his part to fulfill his side of the relationship.

 

Put the ball in his court. If he doesn’t respond acceptably then move on.

[Guest]

I'm wondering exactly how lucrative that job on the cruise ship is. Is he a dancer? I don't think they pay that much. In any case, very handsome people of both sexes in their mid 20's are often accustomed to others doing anything just for the privilege of being in their presence. My ex had a friend who was extremely handsome, although somewhat of a numbskull and a dolt. Everywhere he went, wealthy men were offering him jobs to do stupid things, and he would screw things up.

I don't think that he probably saw you as some he could take advantage of. More likely, he saw you as an older mentor and friend, and thought you enjoyed paying for the privilege of being with him and helping him out. You didn't mention whether you verbalized any objections to his use of the cell phone at the table. If you told him "I would prefer that you not use your cell phone during meal times" and he did it anyway, that's a lot worse than if you just assumed (even if correctly) that he should have known better. It would have been better to verbalize your feelings earlier on than to just say "You're a rotten guest" at the end of the visit.

Given your age difference, this wasn't a traditional friendship, but it could well be that he valued you more than just for what you could provide him. It's difficult to say without observing. The penis comment was, indeed, crass. However, he may have felt threatened if he believed he was being propositioned an older gay man, and just came up with a poorly-worded (albeit perhaps in his mind humorous) way of letting you know that anything physical was off the table.

My opinion is that he may have seen you as more than just a meal ticket, and genuinely appreciated other aspects of your relationship. You may have wanted to let your feelings known earlier, in a non-angry manner, rather than respond in an angry tone at the end of the visit. Unless you said something, he may just have thought that things would continue as they had when he was a starving student. How was his relationship with his parents? Did they teach him manners? What was his background? Maybe no one ever taught him how to behave at the table, or that it's polite to show some sort of appreciation for one's host. Handsome young men may just assume it's normal for everyone around them to treat them like it's a privilege to be with them (which, I suppose, it is to a great extent--escorts get paid for this). His behavior was rude, but probably not maliciously so.

[Nebost]

Sometimes we give to someone, especially someone younger and cuter, and don't ask for much in return. His attractiveness is worth our effort, indeed it makes us happy to give. But by doing we so, we've established a normalcy in the relationship that is quite one sided. He took you for granted because you were always the provider and giver in the relationship, he wasn't being intentionally mean so much as this is what he perceives to be normal in his relationship with you. I think if he just gave a small crumb of acknowledgment, you would have been quite happy. But despite your hinting, he gave nothing at all (I do think your guy is quite obtuse, but not evil or manipulative). The decision for you is if you are still so enamored with him to put some more effort in the hope that he will at some point reciprocate, or just cut your losses. I've been there before, and I have given even though there was little hope for reciprocity, knowing I was a fool for doing so. But I wanted someone like that that I could be kind to, so I did it anyway. In retrospect, I might have better invested my affection, effort and money in a cat:)

[actor61]

I'm wondering exactly how lucrative that job on the cruise ship is. Is he a dancer? I don't think they pay that much. In any case, very handsome people of both sexes in their mid 20's are often accustomed to others doing anything just for the privilege of being in their presence. My ex had a friend who was extremely handsome, although somewhat of a numbskull and a dolt. Everywhere he went, wealthy men were offering him jobs to do stupid things, and he would screw things up.

I don't think that he probably saw you as some he could take advantage of. More likely, he saw you as an older mentor and friend, and thought you enjoyed paying for the privilege of being with him and helping him out. You didn't mention whether you verbalized any objections to his use of the cell phone at the table. If you told him "I would prefer that you not use your cell phone during meal times" and he did it anyway, that's a lot worse than if you just assumed (even if correctly) that he should have known better. It would have been better to verbalize your feelings earlier on than to just say "You're a rotten guest" at the end of the visit.

Given your age difference, this wasn't a traditional friendship, but it could well be that he valued you more than just for what you could provide him. It's difficult to say without observing. The penis comment was, indeed, crass. However, he may have felt threatened if he believed he was being propositioned an older gay man, and just came up with a poorly-worded (albeit perhaps in his mind humorous) way of letting you know that anything physical was off the table.

My opinion is that he may have seen you as more than just a meal ticket, and genuinely appreciated other aspects of your relationship. You may have wanted to let your feelings known earlier, in a non-angry manner, rather than respond in an angry tone at the end of the visit. Unless you said something, he may just have thought that things would continue as they had when he was a starving student. How was his relationship with his parents? Did they teach him manners? What was his background? Maybe no one ever taught him how to behave at the table, or that it's polite to show some sort of appreciation for one's host. Handsome young men may just assume it's normal for everyone around them to treat them like it's a privilege to be with them (which, I suppose, it is to a great extent--escorts get paid for this). His behavior was rude, but probably not maliciously so.

I did voice my objections to his obsessive cell phone use and I was pretty diplomatic about it. It didn't change a thing, and that's when I got angry. The incident at the end of his visit was not the first time I had told him that his behavior was really bugging me but it was the most forceful discussion we had because I was at the end of my rope as the saying goes. What pushed me over the edge is that I had bought concert tickets for us that afternoon and couldn't get him out off the couch. So, I went by myself and when I got home, I sat him down and voiced my displeasure. I stated the conversation by asking him if he was physically ill or depressed because I really worried about how he stayed up all night and slept all day and was so uncommunicative. He said he was fine, so that's when I told him he was a "rotten guest".

 

According to him, he DOES value our relationship but his way of showing that appreciation is non existent. He has a lousy relationship with his parents and in fact came to see me rather than going to see them. That says a lot. As for his "lucrative" cruise ship job, yes he was a dancer. In 7 months, he saved up $13,000 and proudly showed me his bank statement. And he STILL couldn't buy me a cup of coffee. LOL.

[Epigonos]

I think the over indulged child syndrome is an excellent explanation. My nephew’s daughter is married and has two small children. Both she and her husband have high paying jobs with google yet whenever they go out to dinner with my nephew and his wife they ALWAYS slide the check to him to pay which he does. They pulled the same routine with her grandparents, my sister and my brother-in-law, one evening. Now to say the least my sister is a ballsy lady. She slid the check right back to them and smiling informed them that grandma and grandpa had paid the last time and this time it was their turn. The look on their faces was priceless but they paid. Now whenever they come for a visit and if my sister doesn’t cook dinner and they go out they ask for separate checks – it cracks me up.

 

A former student of mine, who comes from a totally dysfunctional family, used to stop by my place five or six times a year for a visit. I became something of an anchor of stability for him. I would either cook dinner or take him out. He worked two jobs and went to school full time. It took him seven year to get his B.A. and M.A. but he got them. After receiving his M.A. he got an excellent paying job in the San Francisco Bay Area. He is now married but we still get together five or six times a year when he comes down here to visit his crazy family. At his insistence we always go out to dinner. If I even look like I’m about to reach for the check he goes ballistic. His standard comment is that for seven year the only really nice meals he had were with me and that it’s now his turn.

[Guest]

I did voice my objections to his obsessive cell phone use and I was pretty diplomatic about it. It didn't change a thing, and that's when I got angry. The incident at the end of his visit was not the first time I had told him that his behavior was really bugging me but it was the most forceful discussion we had because I was at the end of my rope as the saying goes. What pushed me over the edge is that I had bought concert tickets for us that afternoon and couldn't get him out off the couch. So, I went by myself and when I got home, I sat him down and voiced my displeasure. I stated the conversation by asking him if he was physically ill or depressed because I really worried about how he stayed up all night and slept all day and was so uncommunicative. He said he was fine, so that's when I told him he was a "rotten guest".

 

According to him, he DOES value our relationship but his way of showing that appreciation is non existent. He has a lousy relationship with his parents and in fact came to see me rather than going to see them. That says a lot. As for his "lucrative" cruise ship job, yes he was a dancer. In 7 months, he saved up $13,000 and proudly showed me his bank statement. And he STILL couldn't buy me a cup of coffee. LOL.

Well, this additional information makes a huge difference. If you told him that a behavior was bugging you, and he did it anyways, then he really was being rude, and intentionally so. And not going to a concert to which you had purchased tickets would have really set me off (especially if he had known you had purchased the tickets). I wouldn't classify $13,000 in 7 months as "lucrative," especially if he needs to save up for education or housing. Dancers often have narcissistic personalities, however, and this seems to be the case here. From what you're saying here, this sounds like a fairly abusive relationship. I don't mind being generous, but it sounds as if his behavior was intentionally offensive, almost to the point of sociopathy. I would drop this "friendship" unless you enjoy being abused for the privilege of occasionally seeing his semi-naked body coming out of the shower. He's not even a clever sociopath. With men this handsome, however, it seems that no matter how many bridges they burn, someone else will build a bridge for them.

 

On the subject of cruises, I remember an introductory speech given by the cruise director at the start of a 14-day cruise. He said "If there's something you don't like, please go to Guest Relations as soon as possible. Don't just keep your displeasure within you, then make negative comments on your comment form at the end of the cruise. If we don't fix the problem for you, then it would be appropriate to leave the negative comments." Your dancer not only acted offensively, but he knew that what he was doing was offensive. There doesn't seem to be much hope of fixing the situation in this case.

[actor61]

I think the over indulged child syndrome is an excellent explanation. My nephew’s daughter is married and has two small children. Both she and her husband have high paying jobs with google yet whenever they go out to dinner with my nephew and his wife they ALWAYS slide the check to him to pay which he does. They pulled the same routine with her grandparents, my sister and my brother-in-law, one evening. Now to say the least my sister is ballsy lady. She slid the check right back to them and smiling informed them that grandma and grandpa had paid the last time and this time it was their turn. The look on their faces was priceless but they paid. Now whenever they come for a visit and if my sister doesn’t cook dinner and they go out they ask for separate checks – it cracks me up.

 

A former student of mine, who comes from a totally dysfunctional family, used to stop by my place five or six times a year for a visit. I became something of an anchor of stability for him. I would either cook dinner or take him out. He worked two jobs and went to school full time. It took him seven year to get his B.A. and M.A. but he got them. After receiving his M.A. he got an excellent paying job in the San Francisco Bay Area. He is now married but we still get together five or six times a year when he comes down here to visit his crazy family. At his insistence we always go out to dinner. If I even look like I’m about to reach for the check he goes ballistic. His standard comment is that for seven year the only really nice meals he had were with me and that it’s now his turn.

Oh lord, how I'd love for this friendship to take the turn yours has but I really, honestly doubt that my friend will ever say, "You took care of me for 5 years, now it's my turn." It's just not in his DNA.

 

I really appreciate all the comments and support on here. Your opinions have been so well expressed, lucid and helpful. I only have myself to blame for the pickle I'm in and will resolve it the best way I know how once I've made a decision.

[Lookin]

I was shocked, hurt, offended, angry and outraged. I stayed really calm and pleasant though when I told him I thought that was an unnecessary remark to have made.

 

It sounds like you stifled your real thoughts throughout his stay. If there's a next time, perhaps you could share your feelings early on. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

 

[+ WilliamM]

actor61,

 

Do not be so hard on yourself. For example, you made a mistake by saying how good he looked after his shower. The problem may be the relatively brief friendship. Friends of long standing would see these issues as minor.

 

I hope you will not mind the following: I have been reading your comments here for a long time. They are always interesting, with an excellent sense of humor. But, on occasion you seem to overthink. I realize I am taking a chance in saying this, and I absolutely would not write it, if I thought it would hurt you.

 

William

[Guest]

I did voice my objections to his obsessive cell phone use and I was pretty diplomatic about it. It didn't change a thing, and that's when I got angry.

 

Have I shared this video before? When I was a little boy, I had a great-aunt living in central France, whose phone number was simply "1".

[+ sync]

Actor 61,

 

Biting the bullet is almost never easy.

 

The behavior you described would be tolerable from a 16-year old, definitely not from a 26-year old.

 

You didn’t mention the employment title of the lucrative cruise ship position this young man holds, however, the cruise ship industry is a hospitality industry within which employees are expected to be courteous, respectful, and professional, none of which traveled into the experience you have shared here.

 

We all have individual thresholds for tolerance. In light of the support, respect and monetary considerations shown to this man in the past, my threshold would have been breached by the tasteless, and I'm guessing, intentionally disrespectful penis comment. My very next words would have been an invitation to the curb.

[rvwnsd]

Have I shared this video before? When I was a little boy, I had a great-aunt living in central France, whose phone number was simply "1".

 

You have (or someone else has) and it is just as funny this time as it was then.

 

I'm 63 years old and have a 26 year old, straight friend who seems very attached to me....

 

Here are my questions.

(1) ...Is this a generational thing? Am I old fashioned in thinking that paying for your host's cup of coffee once is the polite thing to do? ...

 

I do not believe this to be a generational thing nor do I think you are old fashioned. I think this is an inexperienced person who, for whatever reason, does not know it is polite to give one's host a token of appreciation for his hospitality.

 

...

(2) He came out of the shower one evening with a towel wrapped around his waist and I said, "You look great. You're really in good shape now." And his reply was, "And I have a fantastic penis, which you will never see."...

 

This was obviously (well, to me, anyway) an attempt at humor on his part.

 

...I had no response. I was shocked, hurt, offended, angry and outraged. I stayed really calm and pleasant though when I told him I thought that was an unnecessary remark to have made. I have NEVER put a move on this boy and in fact, he has said to me a few times how comfortable and safe he feels with me. Am I a doddering old fool too easily hurt? I just really thought it was an offensive statement to make on a lot of levels. Was I over thinking it?

...

 

I see nothing offensive in his statement. He thought your relationship was such that he could make a joking comment in reply to his compliment and you took it in a different way. Are you a doddering old fool? I don't know. I haven't seen you walk or talk. Are you overreacting? I believe so.

 

...On the day before he left, I gently explained my feelings to him and then laughingly told him, 'You're a rotten guest." He just looked at me as though I was from Mars. He honestly didn't get it. He has to return to my city next month for a job interview; I told him he'd have to stay somewhere else. In fact, my exact words were, "You need to be with straight people your own age, not with a 63 year old, gay man." ...

 

The joke "you're a rotten guest" is perfectly fine IMO. However, I find absolutely nothing gentle with the statement "You need to be with straight people...". This was a good opportunity for you to take the high road, but you chose instead to get angry with him.

 

...And he said that made him very sad. Holy shit! I just don't know what to think. I've decided to let the friendship atrophy. I don't want a confrontation and at my age, ...

 

How would you feel if you had invited him back and he said "Look, I need to to be with straight people my own age, not with a 63 year old, gay man."?

 

...

I don't feel like I need to explain things over and over to someone so young and obtuse.

...

 

Perhaps I missed something, but I don't see where you explained anything to him at all, let alone "over and over."

 

...

My friends say that it's a situation of a young, goodlooking, straight man taking advantage of a generous, 63 year old gay man - a story as old as time. God, I hope I haven't been that naive.

...

 

I do not believe this to be the case. I believe you have been generous to him and have provided a safe atmosphere for him to hang out in. However, I'm not seeing any evidence of you having seized an opportunity to mentor and coach your guy regarding the way one handles oneself when staying with gracious hosts. Here are a couple of suggestions for next courses of action:

 

1. Apologize for hurting his feelings. What you said is mean and is borne of your own anger, which I think is unfounded.
   
2. Seize the opportunity to teach him something about being a polite member of society: Something to the effect of "Did I show you the vase my friend [insert name of out of town guest here} gave me when he stayed. It was so thoughtful of him to select such a pretty vase to put the flowers in." It doesn't matter whether you received something as a host gift or not or if you were taken to a meal or received a supermarket gift card. Make some shit up! Just introduce the idea that house guests usually do something nice for their hosts.
   
3. Recognize that we all have different ways of hanging out and relaxing: I'm not a fan of his texting while eating meals with you. You mentioned that he slept all day. If he has a job on a cruise ship it is possible that he is tired. What is wrong with that?
   
4. Recognize that all of us, including you, make mistakes and can be obtuse at times: Your friend behaved rudely and you became angry. Are you a bad person for getting angry? Is he a bad person for behaving rudely?
   

 

... And let me finish by saying - this is basically a good kid. We have serious, intelligent conversations when his nose isn't buried in his cell phone or computer, and he often asks for my opinion on things and says he respects me. Am I right in thinking it's just a gay/straight/generational difference or are my friends right in thinking it's a young hunk working the angles the best he can?

 

Let's turn this paragraph around for a moment:

 

And let me finish by saying - this is basically a good man. We have serious, intelligent conversations when he isn't fuming that I use my cell phone or computer, and he often provides useful feedback when I ask for his opinion on things. I've told him I respect him, but I don't think he believes it. Am I right in thinking it's just a gay/straight/generational difference or are my friends right in thinking it's an old man set in his ways who can't see beyond the fact that different people operate in different ways?

 

Does this sound like an accurate characterization?

[+ dutchmuch]

Your opinions have been so well expressed, lucid and helpful. I only have myself to blame for the pickle I'm in and will resolve it the best way I know how once I've made a decision.

 

We've all been in self-created pickles, you aren't alone!

[nate_sf]

Given that you mention he is basically a good guy, and he's from a lousy family background, I'd chalk most of this up to poor social skills on his part. I think it's good you called him out on it, as lots of other people would have suffered and fumed in silence. He can reflect on what happened, and either it sinks in or it doesn't. It might not sink in until several years from now.

 

I'd guess his shower comment was meant to be humorous. I hear guys that age at the gym talk to each other like that all the time, and I wouldn't be surprised if he had that kind of banter as a dancer on the cruise ship. He may have even used that exact same line with some of the gay dancers. And the immersion in technology is a phenomenon that unfortunately seems to be way too widespread and lots of people think nothing of until someone calls them out on it. We hear about children complaining about their parents being immersed on the phone rather than paying attention to them, it's an addiction.

 

IF (and that's an if) you decide you want to keep in touch with this guy, I think taking on a mentor relationship would be beneficial to both of you. Beneficial to him, as he clearly needs a better understanding of basic social protocols, and beneficial to you as you would hopefully not feel taken advantage of and disrespected. Given that he's going on job interviews and starting a career, it's time to learn this stuff. It can be friendly advice, with an emphasis on the kinds of things that future coworkers might appreciate or find irritating.

 

But you have to decide if it's worth your trouble. I recently had a similar kind of experience with a friend we'd brought along on a road trip (only difference was they were old enough to know better), and after the weekend was so over it I just let the relationship go on ice and have barely talked to them since. You may be similarly over it with this guy, or perhaps you just see him for a meal.

[Rudynate]

 

And let me finish by saying - this is basically a good man. We have serious, intelligent conversations when he isn't fuming that I use my cell phone or computer, and he often provides useful feedback when I ask for his opinion on things. I've told him I respect him, but I don't think he believes it. Am I right in thinking it's just a gay/straight/generational difference or are my friends right in thinking it's an old man set in his ways who can't see beyond the fact that different people operate in different ways?

 

Does this sound like an accurate characterization?

 

 

A little touch of Byron Katie?