VIP escorts

[+ quoththeraven]

Me too, and usually right around closing time. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

 

And after how many drinks? Or is that a given?

[Lankypeters]

But did he came back for a swim and a towling down?

[+ VeryHappyCustomer]

I would say that [being unable to proposition cater waiters] is one of the very few disadvantages of being respectful and polite, not of being an introvert.

 

I agree that it's wrong to proposition someone whose job (or tip) requires him to keep on smiling. It's coercive. The only exception I can think of would be strippers. Eliciting and responding appropriately (whatever that means at the time) to sexual advances is part of their job. So long as you're polite, your interest is a form of praise.

[gallahadesquire]

I made a fascinating discovery a couple of decades ago. It came after a couple years of 5 days a week on the couch but anyway: Introversion is chosen, not ordained from on high. A lifelong introvert, I tried acting like an extrovert for a change. And wonder of wonders, it works. And then the rewards are self-reinforcing.

 

Addiction recovery programs have their own version of this wisdom: It's usually very difficult to think our way into new modes of acting, but surprisingly easy to act our way into new modes of thinking.

 

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61in21sLQnL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

Resistance is futile:

 

[devonhunter]

you could always go the donald burns/david geffen route... you know, since you want guys "better" than us who actually, i dunno, advertise.

[mike carey]

you could always go the donald burns/david geffen route... you know, since you want guys "better" than us who actually, i dunno, advertise.

I don't know, it seems like the allure of the unknown or the perceived-to-be unattainable. A perception that the grass is greener on the other side of some partly defined boundary, and a bit of 'I want, I want'. I think it's more the "new" than the "better than". I'm not denegrating anyone for seeking someone new and exciting. For me, however, there is more than enough allure in the guys who chat in here.

[Rudynate]

I made a fascinating discovery a couple of decades ago. It came after a couple years of 5 days a week on the couch but anyway: Introversion is chosen, not ordained from on high. A lifelong introvert, I tried acting like an extrovert for a change. And wonder of wonders, it works. And then the rewards are self-reinforcing.

 

Addiction recovery programs have their own version of this wisdom: It's usually very difficult to think our way into new modes of acting, but surprisingly easy to act our way into new modes of thinking.

 

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61in21sLQnL._SX258_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

 

Fake it till you make it, as they say.

 

 

It doesn't take long either. I was one of those shy people who don't appear outwardly shy. I began networking as a way to build my business. It was painful at first, but in less than a year, I had developed brass balls - able to strike up conversations with anybody anywhere and deliver presentations to largish groups of people. My latest triumph was being the keynote at a meetup with an audience of nearly 100. I talked nearly non-stop for ninety minutes, and loved every minute of it.

[Rudynate]

I agree that one can learn to talk to strangers. It's the next step that is very difficult for me (and apparently you. Gman).

 

Why? Because then it becomes clear that you started the conversation under somewhat false circumstances.

 

Did I hear the word "overthinking?"

 

I'll add one more thing.

 

Everybody has a few sayings or quotes by which they live. One of mine, which, I am slightly embarrassed to say, comes from "Jonathan Livingston Seagull" is "Argue in favor of your limitations and, sure enough, they are yours."

[+ purplekow]

Fake it till you make it, as they say.

 

 

It doesn't take long either. I was one of those shy people who don't appear outwardly shy. I began networking as a way to build my business. It was painful at first, but in less than a year, I had developed brass balls - able to strike up conversations with anybody anywhere and deliver presentations to largish groups of people. My latest triumph was being the keynote at a meetup with an audience of nearly 100. I talked nearly non-stop for ninety minutes, and loved every minute of it.

How many were still in the audience at the end? IF that number is somewhere near 100 than you have made a successful transition, if it was closer to 30 you have created a successful delusion.

[+ WilliamM]

It doesn't take long either. I was one of those shy people who don't appear outwardly shy. I began networking as a way to build my business. It was painful at first, but in less than a year, I had developed brass balls - able to strike up conversations with anybody anywhere and deliver presentations to largish groups of people. My latest triumph was being the keynote at a meetup with an audience of nearly 100. I talked nearly non-stop for ninety minutes, and loved every minute of it.

 

Rudy: You mention two very different skills, striking up conversations & delivering a keynote speech to almost 100 people. I am amazed that you mastered both so quickly.

 

I did read your Jonathan Livington Seagall quote.

 

As people get older, they can usually differentiate berween limitations they can overcome and those they can not. It's the ones in between they are perhaps achievable/perhaps not achieveable that really count

[Rudynate]

How many were still in the audience at the end? IF that number is somewhere near 100 than you have made a successful transition, if it was closer to 30 you have created a successful delusion.

 

 

Few, if any, left. When you talk to entrepreneurs about intellectual property, they hang on your every word. Nonetheless, even if it were a "successful delusion" it is certainly progress in the right direction, wouldn't you agree?

[Rudynate]

Rudy: You mention two very different skills, striking up conversations & delivering a keynote speech to almost 100 people. I am amazed that you mastered both so quickly.

 

I did read your Jonathan Livington Seagall quote.

 

As people get older, they can usually differentiate berween limitations they can overcome and those they can not. It's the ones in between they are perhaps achievable/perhaps not achieveable that really count

 

 

I find them to be very similar skills - the foundation skill underlying both is being comfortable with discomfort. Also, in addressing a group, it helps if your subject matter is something you are very familiar with. The meetup was to educate entrepreneurs about intellectual property. Since I live and breath IP, it wasn't that hard.

 

I agree that there are limitations that have to be lived with. One cannot undo one's past. You are stuck with the facts of your past. You can however change the story you tell yourself about your past.

 

There are physical limitations that have to be lived with. But again, you can change the story you tell yourself about your physical limitations.

 

There is little else about human psyche and personality that is immutable.

[+ quoththeraven]

Fake it till you make it, as they say.

 

It doesn't take long either. I was one of those shy people who don't appear outwardly shy. I began networking as a way to build my business. It was painful at first, but in less than a year, I had developed brass balls - able to strike up conversations with anybody anywhere and deliver presentations to largish groups of people. My latest triumph was being the keynote at a meetup with an audience of nearly 100. I talked nearly non-stop for ninety minutes, and loved every minute of it.

 

Eh, I can see doing the latter on a subject I know well and am passionate about. But small talk? I am congenitally averse to making small talk. It just feels so presumptuous.

 

Small talk with a purpose is something else again, but I am also not entrepreneurial. As in I would be unable to start my own business unless I had another income stream coming in or a lot of seed money. I would spend too much time worrying about and obsessing over finances to be effective.

 

To the extent you're advocating the kind of changes that, say, CBT does (no, not that CBT; cognitive behavioral therapy), I have no problem; beyond that, you're tinkering with someone's personality. I am not so sure that a trait like introversion can or should be overcome in this manner. (Introversion meaning that being in a group of people exhausts you and you need time to yourself to recharge.) It comes close to saying "Extroverts/extroversion are more worthwhile than introverts/introversion." In addition to thinking "live and let live" is a better philosophy, we need everyone along the spectrum between extroversion and introversion, and we need to stop shaming people about where they are on that spectrum. I have read many angry (and persuasive!) Tumblr posts on this topic.

[+ DickyF]

Eh, I can see doing the latter on a subject I know well and am passionate about. But small talk? I am congenitally averse to making small talk. It just feels so presumptuous.

 

Small talk with a purpose is something else again, but I am also not entrepreneurial. As in I would be unable to start my own business unless I had another income stream coming in or a lot of seed money. I would spend too much time worrying about and obsessing over finances to be effective.

 

To the extent you're advocating the kind of changes that, say, CBT does (no, not that CBT; cognitive behavioral therapy), I have no problem; beyond that, you're tinkering with someone's personality. I am not so sure that a trait like introversion can or should be overcome in this manner. (Introversion meaning that being in a group of people exhausts you and you need time to yourself to recharge.) It comes close to saying "Extroverts/extroversion are more worthwhile than introverts/introversion." In addition to thinking "live and let live" is a better philosophy, we need everyone along the spectrum between extroversion and introversion, and we need to stop shaming people about where they are on that spectrum. I have read many angry (and persuasive!) Tumblr posts on this topic.

If someone is fine and happy being an introvert then by all means be that way! However if you are miserable and lonely then there is help. I'm not sure if shyness and introversion are exactly the same but regardless it can be crippling!

I had CBT for five years on this and it really helped. What I enjoyed the most was taking an improv class. You are compelled to be spontaneous and interactive, and stay in the moment, and not grouse and reflect on what you should have done or said. It was liberating, and fun! I'm not claiming to be totally cured but at least I can have spontaneous conversations and be more in the moment and have some confidence.

[Rudynate]

Eh, I can see doing the latter on a subject I know well and am passionate about. But small talk? I am congenitally averse to making small talk. It just feels so presumptuous.

 

Small talk with a purpose is something else again, but I am also not entrepreneurial. As in I would be unable to start my own business unless I had another income stream coming in or a lot of seed money. I would spend too much time worrying about and obsessing over finances to be effective.

 

To the extent you're advocating the kind of changes that, say, CBT does (no, not that CBT; cognitive behavioral therapy), I have no problem; beyond that, you're tinkering with someone's personality. I am not so sure that a trait like introversion can or should be overcome in this manner. (Introversion meaning that being in a group of people exhausts you and you need time to yourself to recharge.) It comes close to saying "Extroverts/extroversion are more worthwhile than introverts/introversion." In addition to thinking "live and let live" is a better philosophy, we need everyone along the spectrum between extroversion and introversion, and we need to stop shaming people about where they are on that spectrum. I have read many angry (and persuasive!) Tumblr posts on this topic.

 

 

It's all a function of what you want and how bad you want it. I knew a guy years ago who was spectacularly successful in sales. He told me that, when he first started out, making sales calls was so uncomfortable that he had diarrhea non-stop for months. an extreme example, yes, but that's desire.

 

If someone aspires to no more than the limitations imposed on them by their particular personality quirks, I agree, why bother? But that's usually not the case. And if it's not, there's no substitute for making yourself as uncomfortable as your particular constitution will handle. In doing so, I found I was a lot tougher than I had imagined. Also, I'm not talking about months and months of agonizing social anxiety. If you start going to networking events and force yourself to talk to people, you get over the sweaty palms very fast.

 

I have always been a natural in front of a room. When I was in graduate school, we worked in teams a lot. All my team members were so petrified by the idea of doing a five or ten-minute presentation, that I always made a deal with them, I'll present, you guys do the rest. When I wanted to get really good at speaking, I started speaking to Rotary Clubs. That's sort of an intermediate challenge - 20 minutes. The 20 minutes flies by. A third of the audience is over the age of 80 and they don't hear half of what you say because they've nodded off in their soup. Rotaries are really appreciative audiences, though. They buy you lunch, thank you for coming. Some chapters send you a nice thank you note.

[+ WilliamM]

It's all a function of what you want and how bad you want it

 

I have been able to accomplish things I was afraid of at work, school and in my personal life when things were really on the line. I am less willing to take those chances though at random.

 

I have always been a natural in front of a room. When I was in graduate school, we worked in teams a lot. All my team members were so petrified by the idea of doing a five or ten-minute presentation, that I always made a deal with them, I'll present, you guys do the rest. When I wanted to get really good at speaking, I started speaking to Rotary Clubs. That's sort of an intermediate challenge - 20 minutes. The 20 minutes flies by. A third of the audience is over the age of 80 and they don't hear half of what you say because they've nodded off in their soup. Rotaries are really appreciative audiences, though. They buy you lunch, thank you for coming. Some chapters send you a nice thank you note.

 

Rudynate, you are now writing about things that you some experience doing and liked. Most shy people are good at expanding strengths into new areas. I have a good memory for names. I am constantly trying to get even better -- just one example.

[Rudynate]

I have been able to accomplish things I was afraid of at work, school and in my personal life when things were really on the line. I am less willing to take those chances though at random.

 

 

 

Rudynate, you are now writing about things that you some experience doing and liked. Most shy people are good at expanding strengths into new areas. I have a good memory for names. I am constantly trying to get even better -- just one example.

 

Why would you force yourself to do things that aren't important to you? Obviously we all have to pay our bills and all those things that we would rather not do. But in the sphere of the strictly voluntary, why would you force yourself to do anything that isn't important to you? That's insanity. This whole riff started because you complained about not being able to strike up conversations with strangers and you supplied a somewhat spurious justification for not doing so. And now you're saying that it's just not important enough to you for you to make yourself do it. Which is it? If it isn't important to you, why worry about it? I'm sure your life is plenty rich already.

[+ WilliamM]

Why would you force yourself to do things that aren't important to you? Obviously we all have to pay our bills and all those things that we would rather not do. But in the sphere of the strictly voluntary, why would you force yourself to do anything that isn't important to you? That's insanity. This whole riff started because you complained about not being able to strike up conversations with strangers and you supplied a somewhat spurious justification for not doing so. And now you're saying that it's just not important enough to you for you to make yourself do it. Which is it? If it isn't important to you, why worry about it? I'm sure your life is plenty rich already.

 

Either I did not explain well enough, or you put too much emphasis on the word "random." There are things I would enjoy greatly doing better, when my job or a grade in school is not on the line.

 

As far as extending a quick conversation to something more, I have done it occasionally (especially when I was in the miliitary) when it was clear we had a strong connection. Just wish I was better with people where the connection is not so obvious.

[Rudynate]

Either I did not explain well enough, or you put too much emphasis on the word "random." There are things I would enjoy greatly doing better, when my job or a grade in school is not on the line.

 

As far as extending a quick conversation to something more, I have done it occasionally (especially when I was in the miliitary) when it was clear we had a strong connection. Just wish I was better with people where the connection is not so obvious.

 

I understand.

[+ Gar1eth]

Of course there are. The guys who advertise are a small minority. Discreet, mutually beneficial relationships are the norm, rather than the exception. But those guys are not "a cut above" the ones who advertise. The main distinction is that a much higher level of discretion is required to make it work. For example, writing a review would be unthinkable.

 

The way you treat people is much more important than the way you look. I agree with Barnaby Gil that word-of-mouth is important. If you're kind, clean, generous, and discreet the word will get around... and guys will come to you. But if you gossip or boast, word of that will also get around... and nobody will trust you.

 

I think you must live in a very large city and be in a totally different social strata from the one I used to be in. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but this scenario sounds to me like something played out in a world of country clubs and cocktail parties. If I've ever been to a cocktail party for the most part it was involved with some convention I was at and most likely outside my home city.

 

Gman

[+ VeryHappyCustomer]

I think you must live in a very large city and be in a totally different social strata from the one I used to be in. Not that there's anything wrong with it, but this scenario sounds to me like something played out in a world of country clubs and cocktail parties.

Gman

This thread is entitled "VIP escorts". I am certainly not a VIP. And while we're fortunate, I work 60 hours a week and fly commercial. I'm responding to the question about whether there are guys who don't advertise.

 

I live in a suburb of Phoenix. The local economy is dominated by seasonal tourism. <insert emoticon for heat exhaustion> Nearby there's a large university with quite a few older, part-time students and grad students. Include metro Phoenix and you've got a lot of open minded gay or bi men between 25 and 40 who appreciate a little extra income but aren't looking for full-time work. I don't know whether living in a city would make it easier. Maybe not. Everyone has more options in cities, including hiring guys who advertise. (There are just a few in Phoenix.) But I know it's not new. An elderly relative told me about the arrangement he had with a man in a small town in Canada in the 1950s.

 

Yes, there are country clubs, but I don't frequent them. Cocktail parties: guilty. But I never hit on the caterers. I worked such gigs myself in my 20s, and I remember how squirmy I felt when a guest would latch onto me. How trapped. I would never do that to anyone.

 

On a slightly different note: It's an open secret that certain tennis and golf pros, pilates instructors, and swim coaches provide extra services to some of my wife's (female) friends. She and my mother in law(!) have named names. They seem to regard it as normal. To the best of my knowledge, the (much older) husbands avert their eyes.

[+ Gar1eth]

Me too, and usually right around closing time. http://www.boytoy.com/forums/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

 

Outed!

 

And after how many drinks? Or is that a given?

 

With apologies to the ladies for the male chauvinism expressed. But in our case it goes for guys too.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc2ekrgM7Do

 

Gman