So I got an HIV test today...

[jon1265]

after being celibate for three months and it was negative. Good news. Of course the nurse told me it is six months to be non-sexual to be absolutely sure. I survived fucking around since the mid-80s. I am a top, and always fuck with a condom. I perform oral sex without a condom and like to swallow cum.

 

A part of me wants to wait another three months (celibate) and get tested, and another part of me is dying to just go out and get some dick. I am finding myself--not scared of having sex--but feeling that I have dodged the bullet and wonder if I should risk it as I approach fifty.

 

Anyone else ever reach a crossroads like this? I have no doubt I have been with HIV+ men, but guess I was just lucky. Should I continue to roll the die, or live as I have prior to this?

[Guy Fawkes]

Play Safe, Annual Test, and know that there is a light at the end of the tunnel. There are some amazing things on the way to human trials.

[+ purplekow]

It doesn't sound as though you are lucky, it sounds as though you have taken reasonable precautions for safer sex and it has worked for 30 years. You are much too young to give up sex altogether. Continue doing what you are doing and have fun. When you cross a street you look both ways even though you have never been hit by a car, You do not stop crossing the street. Well when you fuck, fuck wrapped and hopefully you will continue to do so for decades to come. So: "don't stop". I know I love it when a man says that to me, so I will say it to you.

[marylander1940]

after being celibate for three months and it was negative. Good news. Of course the nurse told me it is six months to be non-sexual to be absolutely sure. I survived fucking around since the mid-80s. I am a top, and always fuck with a condom. I perform oral sex without a condom and like to swallow cum.

 

A part of me wants to wait another three months (celibate) and get tested, and another part of me is dying to just go out and get some dick. I am finding myself--not scared of having sex--but feeling that I have dodged the bullet and wonder if I should risk it as I approach fifty.

 

Anyone else ever reach a crossroads like this? I have no doubt I have been with HIV+ men, but guess I was just lucky. Should I continue to roll the die, or live as I have prior to this?

 

Congratulations!

 

I survived the 80's too, we both had an angel next to us because at that time we didn't avoiding it was as easy as putting on a condom.

 

Just use a condom.

 

[rvwnsd]

Because you followed the practices you outlined, there were no bullets to be dodged: you simply took precautions and those precautions paid off. Don't remain celibate if you don't want to. Go out, have fun, and continue to exercise the safer sex practices you have become accustomed to exercising.

[+ Gar1eth]

Because you followed the practices you outlined, there were no bullets to be dodged: you simply took precautions and those precautions paid off.

 

I don't want to be argumentative. But that's not entirely true. The CDC reports there is some risk with oral sex-but they never really quantify it. Some oral conditions increase the risk such as herpes or gum disease (me). Here is the link for what the CDC says about oral sex and HIV.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/risk/behavior/oralsex.html

 

At three months negative and celibate-and the nurse telling you to be certain you need to wait another three months-then it sounds like you had a routine antibody test-which is a normal 1st screening test. However there are much more sensitive tests such as an RNA test which can detect virus particles at 10 to 14 days after infection. For your own piece of mind, why don't you look into getting one of these more sensitive tests. (If cost is an issue, there are often free- to lower priced testing available at city/county health public health clinics or specialized gay community health centers depending on where you live.)

 

Then for continued peace of mind-look into getting tested every 3 to 4 months. You could also look into taking Truvada prophylaxis once you know you are definitely negative. That doesn't mean Truvada allows you to go bareback-it's an added level of protection along with condoms.

 

Gman

[+ quoththeraven]

I agree with PK and rvwnsd: You aren't engaged in especially risky activities, therefore you're not lucky and haven't dodged a bullet. There's no need to remain celibate for another test unless you want to for other reasons. (I would if this were preparatory to going without condoms with a special man in your life, but it doesn't sound like that's the reason.) Gman makes a good point about what type of test you're taking, though. If a more accurate test is available for no or reasonable cost, get that instead.

 

Get tests done more frequently if that gives you peace of mind, but I'm not sure why a sexually active gay man who isn't having sex as frequently as escorts do (a wild assumption I'm going to make) and makes use of condoms during insertive and receptive anal sex needs to get tested more than once a year. While receptive oral sex without a condom isn't associated with zero risk, its riskiness is so minimal (and hard to estimate) that I personally wouldn't (and haven't) sweated it. BTW, from what I've read, once semen's in your mouth, you're better off swallowing than spitting anyway, as then stomach acids go to work on it and may neutralize or break down any viruses. If you swallow cum often and worry about it, that might be a reason to get tested more often than annually.

 

Here's a link to CDC estimates of transmission rates, which assume an uncut HIV+ partner, no prophylactics (no condoms or PrEP), and no aggravating factors (high viral load, other STDs):

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/policies/law/risk.html Even without condoms or PrEP, the risk of transmission for insertive anal intercourse and PIV sex (both ways) are pretty darned low (11, 8, and 4 out of 10,000 exposures) if no aggravating factors are present.

[+ Gar1eth]

BTW, from what I've read, once semen's in your mouth, you're better off swallowing than spitting anyway, as then stomach acids go to work on it and may neutralize or break down any viruses. If you swallow cum often and worry about it, that might be a reason to get tested more often than annually.

 

To interject a bit-I have some gum disease-so that always worries me. Plus condoms can break-not knowing whether your partner is HIV positive or not-it's nice getting checked every three to four months for peace of mind. Also another consideration about stomach acid-a lot of people are on medications like Prilosec which reduce stomach acidity.

 

Here's a link to CDC estimates of transmission rates, which assume an uncut HIV+ partner, no prophylactics (no condoms or PrEP), and no aggravating factors (high viral load, other STDs):

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/policies/law/risk.html Even without condoms or PrEP, the risk of transmission for insertive anal intercourse and PIV sex (both ways) are pretty darned low (11, 8, and 4 out of 10,000 exposures) if no aggravating factors are present.

 

What is PIV?

 

Finally I want to make a point about statistics-yeah they are great. We all use them every day both consciously and subconsciously to decide risks and benefits of our actions. However when you look at statistics for what is still when you get down to it an incurable disease that could have devastating life long consequences-you may need to look at statistics in a different light. Yes the odds QTR quotes from the CDC are low. And when you think-I am never going to have sex 10,000 times-my odds are even lower-and they are. The unfortunate thing about statistics in this case-is that they are describing what happens over large populations-it is always possible for you to be that 4 th exposure out of 10,000 anytime you have sex. Yes the risk is rare according to these statistics. But you can always be the one affected. And with an incurable disease (at this point) I'd do whatever I needed to do to make me feel as comfortable with the risk as I could. For me that includes testing every 3 to 6 months (although since I'm not really having relations at the moment I may stretch that out), not performing oral-or at least not often (I don't like the taste of cum anyway), always using condoms, and if I could afford it, I'd probably be on Truvada as a back up.

 

Gman

[+ quoththeraven]

Gman -- It's not the statistics that are the issue, it's the risk-assessment. Your risk assessment radar is different from mine. (As in you're more risk averse on this point.) Mine differs from others. (As in I'm more risk averse than they are. I consider myself a relatively risk-averse person.) I've actually had arguments with people over whether there is in fact any risk with oral. (There is, but it's really really low.)

 

To the OP: Figure out what level of risk you're comfortable with, but also be aware that life itself is a risk. Lightning strikes, getting in a car, crossing the road -- it could all end in tears at anytime. Don't let the risks freak you out to the point where you're not willing to do anything fun or pleasurable.

 

Oh, and I didn't see this at first: PIV is penis in vagina. I was trying to spare everyone yet another reference to vaginas from me.

[+ WmClarke]

Don't let the risks freak you out to the point where you're not willing to do anything fun or pleasurable.

 

Amen. I spent too many decades worrying.

 

But I'm not going to regret lost time and opportunities. I'm going to enjoy the now. And the future possibilities.

[rvwnsd]

There is also a risk of getting struck by a car when walking to the store, but most would not say "Wow, I really dodged a bullet by not getting run over by a car when I was walking down to Walgreens" nor would one walk down to the corner and stand there forever to avoid an accident.

[Rudynate]

after being celibate for three months and it was negative. Good news. Of course the nurse told me it is six months to be non-sexual to be absolutely sure. I survived fucking around since the mid-80s. I am a top, and always fuck with a condom. I perform oral sex without a condom and like to swallow cum.

 

A part of me wants to wait another three months (celibate) and get tested, and another part of me is dying to just go out and get some dick. I am finding myself--not scared of having sex--but feeling that I have dodged the bullet and wonder if I should risk it as I approach fifty.

 

Anyone else ever reach a crossroads like this? I have no doubt I have been with HIV+ men, but guess I was just lucky. Should I continue to roll the die, or live as I have prior to this?

 

I did dodge a bullet in the late 70's when I was out having unprotected sex with wild abandon while HIV was spreading in our community but hadn't announced itself yet. I've made it through since then by adopting safe sex practices that I can live with and remaining compliant. I love to give men oral and I'm perfectly comfortable with it. The associated risk is infinitesimal. "Back in the day," I used to always swallow - haven't done it in ~ 30 years and wouldn't be comfortable with it. I might be comfortable with it if the risk data on oral weren't so ambiguous. It is intuitive, at least to me, that the risk from oral/swallowing and the risk from oral/not swallowing should be different. But I have never seen any data on oral that differentiate between the two acts.

 

One think I have never understood is broken rubber incidents. I don't understand how they happen. I have had one broken rubber incident in 30+ years and it was way back, early on, when we were all unfamiliar with them.

[+ sam.fitzpatrick]

A part of me wants to wait another three months (celibate) and get tested, and another part of me is dying to just go out and get some dick. I am finding myself--not scared of having sex--but feeling that I have dodged the bullet and wonder if I should risk it as I approach fifty.

 

As someone who waited until I was 45 to have sex with another man primarily due to the fear of contacting HIV, I can confidently tell you have not been lucky - just educated about risks. Keep up your safer sex practices and enjoy life. By this time, the use of a condom should be second nature to you now, so no need to change your habits.

[Guy Fawkes]

"Doctors and researchers can't be sure how many people have been infected with HIV through oral sex. Some think hardly anybody has been infected with HIV from oral sex, but other people think that as many as 3% of infections are due to oral sex. In late 2008, researchers looked at all the available evidence and calculated that the risk of contracting HIV from oral sex was very low, but that it wasn't zero" -- http://www.aidsmap.com/Oral-sex/page/1044877/

 

"The associated risk is infinitesimal.

[Guest ChrisW]

I think its a safe assumption that if you survived the plague as you described it you know to properly put on a condom so your risk of contracting HIV that way is greatly diminished. As being celibate for 3 months to make sure your HIV negative that seems a little silly. If your sexually active, especially if your a man who has sex with men I would recommend going in every 3 months to get tested. I would request an RNA test rather than the typical western blot that tests for antibodies. Its certainly your choice to be celibate but if your safer sex practices have worked for you this long and you continue to implement them I don't think you have anything to worry about. It sounds like you survived the plague on one piece but it may have left some psychological scars which is very normal for men of that generation. Having worries about contracting STI's is normal every person experiences it myself included but the way to combat those feelings is by being well read and having all the information you need to make informed decisions for yourself.

 

http://www.sfaf.org/hiv-info/testing/hiv-test-window-periods.html