A potential turnoff for charitable donors?

[Guest]

I was signing on to a website for the charity "Feeding America" which works to end hunger in America, and I will have to confess that the family they showed in their introductory web page did not provide any extra motivation for making a donation. What are these guys thinking? (Or is it just me?)

https://secure.feedingamerica.org/site/Donation2;jsessionid=20FE84E069148FF6844ABEF713A98BCD.app220b?df_id=15200&15200.donation=form1&s_src=H1441BWDM&utm_source=cultivation_mail&utm_medium=mail&utm_campaign=foodshippingappeal&utm_content=test

[Bargara Leatherboy]

They may not be eating well, but they are certainly not hungry

[+ beethoven]

That is very surprising, and a very stupid way of marketing. Here in New York, I donate to City Harvest, which does an outstanding job of feeding the hungry.

[Newly]

Maybe they're counting on potential donors to realize one of the reasons why obesity is such a national problem. If your income is high you can afford to buy healthy food. If you're poor, you can't afford to buy a lot of healthy, calorie poor food or your kids would go hungry. Next time you're at the grocery store, take a look at the cost of reduced fat foods, vegetables, seafood, organic food and compare it to the cost of canned foods, sugary foods, and junk. No offense, but saying that people with limited incomes should buy healthy foods is somewhat like Marie Antoinette saying that the poor should eat cake.

[maninsoma]

Maybe they're counting on potential donors to realize one of the reasons why obesity is such a national problem. If your income is high you can afford to buy healthy food. If you're poor, you can't afford to buy a lot of healthy, calorie poor food or your kids would go hungry. Next time you're at the grocery store, take a look at the cost of reduced fat foods, vegetables, seafood, organic food and compare it to the cost of canned foods, sugary foods, and junk. No offense, but saying that people with limited incomes should buy healthy foods is somewhat like Marie Antoinette saying that the poor should eat cake.

 

While there is some truth to that argument, it certainly isn't entirely true. There are affordable options that are healthful, but they also generally require some effort to prepare.

[+ VeryHappyCustomer]

They look like America

[+ Funguy]

As a physician who deals with both obese kids and obese adults, there is a lot of truth to what "newtothis" says. These people need to be able to obtain healthy foods, not just any foods. Unfortunately, in order for them to do this, there is a lot of education which needs to take place. I have never had a successful intervention re: obesity when I have not been able to get the family to a nutritionist who, as part of the education process, takes the family to the market to show them how and which foods to buy.

 

I agree the marketing photo was a mistake but that is because the general population is woefully ignorant of the issues re: obesity and they should not have shown an obese family. Just because a person is obese doesn't mean they eat a lot and can afford what a lot of us take for granted. They are actually starving just like the prototypical scrawny people. Why do you think that 30+% of the population of this country is obese?

 

Let's help out everyone who really needs it, not just the ones who we think need it.

[rvwnsd]

I was signing on to a website for the charity "Feeding America" which works to end hunger in America, and I will have to confess that the family they showed in their introductory web page did not provide any extra motivation for making a donation. What are these guys thinking? (Or is it just me?)

https://secure.feedingamerica.org/site/Donation2;jsessionid=20FE84E069148FF6844ABEF713A98BCD.app220b?df_id=15200&15200.donation=form1&s_src=H1441BWDM&utm_source=cultivation_mail&utm_medium=mail&utm_campaign=foodshippingappeal&utm_content=test

 

A couple of things come to mind:

 

 

1. Until I volunteered at Feeding America San Diego, I would have agreed with you insofar as these people don't "look hungry." However, many people who can't afford fresh food rely on overly processed food or snacks to fill themselves up. Although their appetite might be satiated, they have not eaten a nutritious meal.
   
2. They are depicting people who comprise their clientele. I'm guessing not many buffed, fit, stunningly beautiful/handsome people are getting food from a food pantry.
   
3. Not everyone who can't afford healthy food looks like a street person from the bowels of Kolkata.
   
4. Why do we need an image of destitute to motivate us to give? Is the knowledge that we are helping another human being who needs that help not enough motivation to help?
   

[+ Funguy]

A couple of things come to mind:

 

 

1. Until I volunteered at Feeding America San Diego, I would have agreed with you insofar as these people don't "look hungry." However, many people who can't afford fresh food rely on overly processed food or snacks to fill themselves up. Although their appetite might be satiated, they have not eaten a nutritious meal.
   
2. They are depicting people who comprise their clientele. I'm guessing not many buffed, fit, stunningly beautiful/handsome people are getting food from a food pantry.
   
3. Not everyone who can't afford healthy food looks like a street person from the bowels of Kolkata.
   
4. Why do we need an image of destitute to motivate us to give? Is the knowledge that we are helping another human being who needs that help not enough motivation to help?
   

 

+1

As I also do a lot of volunteer work at community clinics as well as missions out of this country, most of us just don't realize when we are well off.

We see a lot of news stories on TV re: "starving America" and I daresay that in every one of those stories, the subjects are either obese or overly thin. Why do you think that is? The answer is above. Fat people can be starving as well.

 

Thank you, rvwnsd.

[Bargara Leatherboy]

Oh I totally get that organic and sugar free, fat free foods are more expensive. I have a number of health challenges and know that my grocery bill is much higher than it used to be.

 

My comment that they were not hungry but might not eating well, was not a criticism, but a statement.

[+ Funguy]

Oh I totally get that organic and sugar free, fat free foods are more expensive. I have a number of health challenges and know that my grocery bill is much higher than it used to be.

 

My comment that they were not hungry but might not eating well, was not a criticism, but a statement.

 

Simply as an aside: In this case, "organic" food is not better - it's simply out of reach (and should be) for the poor because it is better to concentrate on obtaining the best food types, groups, and not worry about a "pesticide-free" source.

[Newly]

Sorry I sounded a bit sharp, but if one really wants to get rid of obesity the only real way to do it will involve getting rid of poverty - take a look at the correlation in the US between income and obesity and it is very obvious. Yes, you can still eat better foods and not spend lots of money and it helps a lot to be taught what to eat, but imagine working two or three minimum wage jobs with no benefits. You come home and are completely wiped out; who has the time or energy to prepare healthy food? And they certainly don't have the money or time to get a gym membership or run 5 miles each day. Funguy, I agree that organic is probably a crock, although assuming the stuff really is organic I wonder if it's worthwhile just because organic meats aren't full of hormones. Looking at the problems we're having with resistant viruses I'm assuming some is from doctors who routinely over prescribe antibiotics, but I also wonder if the amount of antibiotics given to mass produced meat isn't creating a problem?

[+ FreshFluff]

As a physician who deals with both obese kids and obese adults, there is a lot of truth to what "newtothis" says. These people need to be able to obtain healthy foods, not just any foods. Unfortunately, in order for them to do this, there is a lot of education which needs to take place. I have never had a successful intervention re: obesity when I have not been able to get the family to a nutritionist who, as part of the education process, takes the family to the market to show them how and which foods to buy.

 

I agree the marketing photo was a mistake but that is because the general population is woefully ignorant of the issues re: obesity and they should not have shown an obese family. Just because a person is obese doesn't mean they eat a lot and can afford what a lot of us take for granted. They are actually starving just like the prototypical scrawny people. Why do you think that 30+% of the population of this country is obese?

 

Let's help out everyone who really needs it, not just the ones who we think need it.

 

Education is good, but if there's a genetic component that gives someone a slow metabolism and/or problems with their satiety signal, trying to get below their setpoint weight means constant obsession with food.

 

I'm curious about what you think of this idea: Maybe the FDA should bring back back phen-fen except with serious restrictions, like with Accutane. Obese people took it and "magically" lost lots of weight without working very hard. It got taken off the market because it caused heart attacks (or similar), and nothing similar ever came out.

 

Do you think that would be safer than bariatric surgery?

[+ Funguy]

1. Yes - over prescribing of antibiotics is a HUGE, HUGE problem. However, don't confuse viruses with bacteria - viruses are not treated with antibiotics and bacterial infections are. But also, herein lies the problem - some doctors (and patients with access) treat all infections with antibiotics, not bothering to really use their brains to sort out which is which, AND/OR bow to patient demand for treatment.

 

2. Back on track - do not think that "the only real way to do it [get rid of obesity] will involve getting rid of poverty." If you could only see the population I deal with (upper middle class+) and the amount of obesity - parents and children - and the excuses I get - it's the thyroid or big-boned or other bullshit. The problem of obesity crosses all socio-economic boundaries. Bottom line: fat kids have fat parents and vice versa! The cure involves motivation (not much when you have a lot of money) and education. Later teens, first girls then boys, begin to have motivation based solely on appearance but they get frustrated early by lack of weight loss because they don't have the education to maintain a good diet and exercise program and their parents are relatively useless when it comes to helping. The few cases when parents get behind the program have amazingly gratifying results because both kids and parents begin to lose weight and then reinforce each other. Kids DO NOT "grow out of their baby fat," it has to be pulled off of them! DIET AND EXERCISE AND EDUCATION!

 

FF: Genetic components of the problem certainly do exist but are as rare as hen's teeth!

Phen-Phen is a BAD BAD idea because of the side effects. However, there is a diet which has been around for years, called the Hcg Diet. It involves using 250 units of Hcg (human chorionic gonadotropin - a hormone) and a 500 cal diet. It used to be that Hcg had to be given as injection but now it can be made at a compounding pharmacy in an oral preparation (like a gummy bear). Lest you think 500 cal is impossible - the Hcg kills the appetite and mobilizes fat so that the first thing that is burned up is fat, not muscle. You lose an average of 1/2 - 1 pound per day and the diet is either for 23 or 40 days, then maintenance for 6 weeks. If another round is wanted/needed then follow the cycle again. The diet is safe and needs to be monitored by a physician. it is actually the easiest diet I've seen (I've tried it and lost 25 pounds without any problems.) The loss of fat comes mostly from the waist, hips and butt.

 

Re: bariatric surgery - when people overeat for psychological reasons, just about nothing will work except a physical intervention such as surgery. For many, the weight comes off and then is put right back on after a few years. These people need psychological intervention as well as the surgical intervention. Is the surgery safe - yes if done by the right hands; no if done by surgeons who are not adequately trained and who are doing it assembly line style to make $$$.

 

Sorry to ramble….

[Newly]

Now I'm going to sound cruel but I don't buy the genetic argument. I am absolutely sure that it may be harder for some people to loose weight than others, just as some people are more predisposed to alcoholism and other addictions, but that just means they have to work harder, not that it is impossible. Having lived in some third world countries while growing up where there was extreme poverty you never saw any overweight poor people. Apparently none of them had a genetic problem that made them obese. Same thing with concentration camp survivors, not a single one of them was fat. It's actually a pretty simple formula; figure out how much you're taking in, reduce it and the weight will come off (with some adjustments in intake along the way). I'm always amazed when I see old American movies and news reels from the 40s and 50s, same country, same genetic pool and yet you almost never see an overweight person. Now it has become so common that almost every department store and grocery store has electric carts which seem to be used mainly by the morbidly obese.

[+ deej]

Now I'm going to sound cruel but I don't buy the genetic argument.

 

Cruel isn't the word that jumps to mind.

 

Sorry I sounded a bit sharp, but if one really wants to get rid of obesity the only real way to do it will involve getting rid of poverty

 

There is much to this. Poverty leads down many roads. One of them leads to poor neighborhoods in cities where there simply isn't a healthy eating option. In poorer areas in, for example, Los Angeles there simply isn't anywhere to buy a head of lettuce without spending a day on the excursion. Grocers don't maintain stores in areas where they either can't make enough money to keep the doors open or there's a high crime rate (which goes hand in hand with local poverty).

 

That's one reason community gardens see such wild success in poorer areas. Heck, I make a six-figure income and still grow my own. In my case it's mostly a hobby, but I definitely spend less money on groceries during the summer. Of course I have a back yard so I have the space to grow a few tomato plants and some green beans. Someone living at or below the poverty level in a too-small apartment doesn't have that space.

 

The deck really is stacked against them in all ways, all across the board.

[Newly]

Funguy, I hadn't seen your last post before I posted. Really I am in about 99% agreement with you, but honestly don't discount the income tie too much. Anecdotally I live near a county that is about the sixth richest in the nation. Thirty miles to the west is one of the poorest in the country. When you go from one to the other the increase in obese persons is striking. It didn't make much sense to me so I started researching it a bit. As a simple example the states with the most obesity are Mississippi, Alabama, West Virginia, Georgia. There's so much correlation that it couldn't be a statistical fluke.

[Steven_Draker]

3 reasons why low-income people can't eat healthy

 

Junk Food is Cheap

Everything’s getting more expensive, but the price of whole foods is skyrocketing. This means nutritious meals are becoming out of reach for the poor. When families with tiny budgets are forced to make tough choices, it’s easy to see why blockbuster fast-food deals are attractive.

 

Food Deserts Are Real

Maybe even more upsetting than the price of good food is its availability. Food deserts, or neighborhoods where fresh produce and other whole foods aren’t available, are big problems in urban areas. People that want to make the right food choices have a much harder time doing it if the nearest quality grocery store is far away. In places where getting to the grocery store means having a car, families who can’t afford cars are forced to go to convenience stores that offer packaged and over-processed foods.

 

Less Money Can Mean Less Leisure Time

Cooking takes time. Obvious enough, but low-income families are often run by parents who work really long hours. After long days, feeding the family comes down to what’s quick and easy, and that’s usually not a homemade meal with fresh vegetables and whole grains.

 

source: http://frugivoremag.com/2012/01/3-reasons-why-the-poor-cant-eat-healthy/

[+ Funguy]

Funguy, I hadn't seen your last post before I posted. Really I am in about 99% agreement with you, but honestly don't discount the income tie too much. Anecdotally I live near a county that is about the sixth richest in the nation. Thirty miles to the west is one of the poorest in the country. When you go from one to the other the increase in obese persons is striking. It didn't make much sense to me so I started researching it a bit. As a simple example the states with the most obesity are Mississippi, Alabama, West Virginia, Georgia. There's so much correlation that it couldn't be a statistical fluke.

 

I don't discount the income issue at all - what I was saying is that rich people are obese, too.

[+ Funguy]

3 reasons why low-income people can't eat healthy

 

Junk Food is Cheap

Everything’s getting more expensive, but the price of whole foods is skyrocketing. This means nutritious meals are becoming out of reach for the poor. When families with tiny budgets are forced to make tough choices, it’s easy to see why blockbuster fast-food deals are attractive.

 

Food Deserts Are Real

Maybe even more upsetting than the price of good food is its availability. Food deserts, or neighborhoods where fresh produce and other whole foods aren’t available, are big problems in urban areas. People that want to make the right food choices have a much harder time doing it if the nearest quality grocery store is far away. In places where getting to the grocery store means having a car, families who can’t afford cars are forced to go to convenience stores that offer packaged and over-processed foods.

 

Less Money Can Mean Less Leisure Time

Cooking takes time. Obvious enough, but low-income families are often run by parents who work really long hours. After long days, feeding the family comes down to what’s quick and easy, and that’s usually not a homemade meal with fresh vegetables and whole grains.

 

source: http://frugivoremag.com/2012/01/3-reasons-why-the-poor-cant-eat-healthy/

 

Well-said, Steven

[rvwnsd]

Simply as an aside: In this case, "organic" food is not better - it's simply out of reach...for the poor because it is better to concentrate on obtaining the best food types, groups, and not worry about a "pesticide-free" source.

 

The NPR show Marketplace addressed this topic on Friday, May 9 in an interview with Mark Bittman, a New York Times food columnist. He argues that terms like "organic," "free-range," "non-GMO," "vegan," and so forth are over used. The fact of the matter is fresh foods are better than processed foods, so eat them and stop worrying about the adjective used to describe them.

 

 

Sorry I sounded a bit sharp, but if one really wants to get rid of obesity the only real way to do it will involve getting rid of poverty - take a look at the correlation in the US between income and obesity and it is very obvious. Yes, you can still eat better foods and not spend lots of money and it helps a lot to be taught what to eat, but imagine working two or three minimum wage jobs with no benefits. You come home and are completely wiped out; who has the time or energy to prepare healthy food? And they certainly don't have the money or time to get a gym membership or run 5 miles each day. Funguy, I agree that organic is probably a crock, although assuming the stuff really is organic I wonder if it's worthwhile just because organic meats aren't full of hormones. Looking at the problems we're having with resistant viruses I'm assuming some is from doctors who routinely over prescribe antibiotics, but I also wonder if the amount of antibiotics given to mass produced meat isn't creating a problem?

 

I agree with you, newtothis. Hell, I am not poor, but after working ten hours a day I don't usually have the energy to go to the gym. The term "organic" is way over-used. Fresh produce and minimally-processed meat is just fine. I eat fresh produce almost 100% of the time. I've used frozen vegetables on occasion (usually for cooking) and do eat canned corn and green beans from time to time (like twice a year) because I like them and think they are a completely separate food product than fresh corn and beans.

 

I think buying organic food has become a way for some people to make themselves feel superior to others. Luxury cars have become more accessible to more people through financing plans, air travel is also more accessible, and so are high-end and designer clothes, so organically- vs conventionally grown food is the latest way for some people to project their success, sense of merit, and moral/cultural superiority.

[Bargara Leatherboy]

The food we eat today, is lacking in vitamins and minerals. This is due to soil depletion thru overfarming etc. Then there is the issue with the amount of pesticides etc used in growing these foods.

 

So while something labelled organic may be just a rip off product labeled that way to charge more $$ for it, authentic organic coupled with the correct supplements will benefit everyone.

 

Poverty, social welfare, the minimum wage, etc are all seperate issues

[Guest]

Education is good, but if there's a genetic component that gives someone a slow metabolism and/or problems with their satiety signal, trying to get below their setpoint weight means constant obsession with food.

 

I'm curious about what you think of this idea: Maybe the FDA should bring back back phen-fen except with serious restrictions, like with Accutane. Obese people took it and "magically" lost lots of weight without working very hard. It got taken off the market because it caused heart attacks (or similar), and nothing similar ever came out.

 

Do you think that would be safer than bariatric surgery?

 

1. No it's not genetics. The prevalence of obesity has jumped many-fold over the last 40 years. The genes have not changed. Yes, the use of high-fructose corn syrup has sky-rocketed, as has a sedentary lifestyle. But does anyone really think that people with reasonable weight just stopped having children, and only the obese have been reproducing?

 

2. Phen-fen caused serious cardiac problems, and is not a cure for maladaptive behavior.

 

3. Bariatric surgery works for some people. But I've seen lots of patients eat their way through the surgery over the years, if they're not properly educated and motivated. And the surgery has a surprisingly high rate of mortality, too.

[+ purplekow]

1. No it's not genetics. The prevalence of obesity has jumped many-fold over the last 40 years. The genes have not changed. Yes, the use of high-fructose corn syrup has sky-rocketed, as has a sedentary lifestyle. But does anyone really think that people with reasonable weight just stopped having children, and only the obese have been reproducing?

.

 

That is certainly a specious argument. Whether or not many forms of obesity are genetic is unclear to most, however, it is clear that you do not have to exhibit a trait to pass it on genetically. So if there is a genetic predisposition to obesity, it may well be true that two thin or average weight individuals could produce a child with obese tendencies on a genetic basis.

 

I do agree with you that Phen fen and in fact almost all weight loss products are not a good idea for most people. Exceptions are few. Dangers are great. Results are spotty and commonly, since dietary intake and/or lifestyle changes have not been altered, weight lost is often regained.

 

Bariatric surgery techniques have improved, but it is still a risky procedure with lots of side effects and bad outcomes and as you mentioned, lots of people who regain the weight by ignoring the other hallmarks of reputable bariatric programs, which always include post operative diet changes and exercise programs.

 

Eat less, exercise more. The answer to the question "what can I do to lose weight? I will do anything." Unfortunately the response to eat less, exercise more is usually, what else do you got?

[Guest boiworship08]

I've heard that people who have had bariatric surgery sometimes start drinking heavily. I've seen it in several associates. Any truth to that?