Is Being Gay Just A State of Mind?

[RexAll]

Ok while I don't know the specifics of the Kinsey Scale, I know there is supposed to be a continuum. What brought this to mind was the Friday 1/18 Review on Mike. This last reviewer, #3, says he is mostly straight. I believe the first reviewer called him straight and # 2 said mostly gay.

 

http://www.rentboy.com/Listing.aspx?lid=324492&scid=85664123&sp=1&pos=0&locid=375&iid=168154

 

In his Rentboy ad, he calls himself bisexual. So is he just a straight guy who likes to have his prostate stimulated?

 

Thinking about Mike's ad put me in mind of the protagonist Edward Zanni in gay author Marc Acito's novels 'How I Paid For College' and 'Attack of the Theater People'. In the 1st book Edward is in high school and considers himself bisexual. In the next book he is at Julliard. He has decided he's gay, but is not very comfortable with it. It's the mid 1980's, he's in NYC, and on top of his not being jiggy with being gay- AIDs is all around. So at one point-(Note- I'm not trying to offend anyone here. It's in the book). He meets a costumer- who he says is so 'gay'/effeminate acting it makes his ass hurt ( although at the end of the book he is much more accepting and he and the costumer have become

f-ckbuddies). But at an early stage of the book- he says he thinks of being gay as more of something like a verb- something you do rather than something you are- adjective.

 

On top of all of that- I started thinking about all the real gay- for - pay stars out there who bottom- I know there must be some who really are straight-- and I have to think that at least for some of them bottoming can't be pure agony for them each time they do it. Some of them must enjoy it.

 

And to add to this- I've been with an escort- calls himself bisexual- formerly married- who when he was married used to have his wife strap on a dildo to top him.

 

And finally as a gay man myself- I've never really felt any sexual attraction to women. I can recognize female beauty- but it does nothing for me.

 

So is it possible to be gay if you feel emotionally drawn to men, but don't like gay sex? If you like to bottom but feel no emotional attachment for men- are you gay?

 

Obviously some straight guys- whether they need the help of Viagra or porn- are able to top any hole they find. And just as obvious some gays can top women without feeling deep emotional attachment to them.

 

So I probably didnt state this well. But it's obviously a complicated subject.

 

Rex

[Diverdan]

Hey, Rex... I think you stated it very well. There is an almost endless continum of sexuality in both men and women. Some of it we know is genetic, some of it learned, some of it cultural, but there is no only one way to define it. I know of many men who are/were happily married and had a satisfying sex life with their wives, but also had very satisfying sex with male partners on the side. Sometimes the wife knew and other times she did not. I also know a lot of guys who had male friends who as time went on realized that part of the friendship was a sexual attraction, even though there was no sexual activity. In other cases, that friendship did begin expressing itself in sexual activity, sometimes satisfying and sometimes not. We are sexual creatures, and most if not all will find a way to satisfy our sexual needs. One only needs to look at the problems that priests and nuns have when they try to surpress those natural, god given instincts and desires.

 

You are right, it is a very complicated subject, and best just to enjoy all the permutations that exist, IMHO. All of the questions you raise will be answered differently by different folks, and many will not want to discuss their particular behaviours or desires.

 

This is an interesting topic, and glad you raised it here. There are not very many good psychological, medical or sociological studies that deal with this topic, as it is very difficult to get funding for such topics, especially in the USA.

DD

[+ azdr0710]

But it's obviously a complicated subject.

 

yes, it is a very complicated topic....going to ramble here a bit....

 

the few here on the board who I've met in person know all the hangups I have about being bi/gay (some internalized homophobia, for one)...since trying to face it starting about 13 years ago at age 37, I've realized there are so many levels of gay-ness, bi-ness, straight-ness....I used to think it was black and white....obviously, there are many married guys who enjoy messing around with a man...and many who don't....also, I think a dude can have a physical attraction to a guy and no emotional one, and vice versa...tolerance, how you were raised, who you hung out with while younger, what your parent(s) instilled in you, various experiences, many things can affect your beliefs....

 

I've met with a few bi escorts who prefer straight porn and like nothing more than to take it up the butt....took me a while to figure that out....so many shades of gray....I do believe gay-for-pay is possible, despite many militant gays who dispute it.....as long as you're tolerant, open-minded, not homophobic, I think it can exist.....these guys probably have no interest in a loving relationship with a dude, but don't mind messing around for a paycheck....they obviously are very confident in their sexuality, I presume.....

 

a counselor once told me if you jack off to images of dudes when alone, you're probably gay....I don't mind looking at a great-looking chick and will imagine her undressed, but I check out dudes, too....yeah, it's usually dude(s) I look at when alone at the computer....

 

lots to discuss....yup, very complicated

[RexAll]

For me- assuming it's accurate- I must be pretty far down on the homosexuality end of the Kinsey Scale. I don't remember ever feeling any sort of sexual attraction towards a woman. But like Azdr- I am not totally comfortable with being gay.

 

Rex

[oceansunshine]

Rexall, Thanks for your well written post with the thoughts well presented.

 

This is my post on this board. I've been a lurker for years reading posts in this forum and have grown to accept my sexually. I do wish I was "brave" enough to come out in my teen or 20's. Instead, I focused on "work" and while very "successful" within my profession and well respected by my peers, my personal side always had a gap. The Anita Bryant movement and words I heard from my parents scared me that I was flawed and would never be accepted by others/family/friends if they "knew".

 

This board has been one important component in educating myself to learn to accept my real sexuality and not be afraid to let family/friends know (many knew I now think before I came out to myself).

 

So a big thanks from me to the many thoughtful posters in this Lounge who have taken the time to post from the heart over these last number of years. I sense many of you, via your posts have helped me (and I bet other "lurkers").

 

I hope to meet some of you in person in the future.

 

Thanks again.

 

Doug

 

PS:

In addition to this forum (Thanks Daddy), Others that have helped me in accepting myself/coming out and realizing that "I'm normal too" include(among others):

1) the ongoing DoD changes thanks in part IMHO by what Joe Biden did on a Sunday Talk show during the last election cycle to force additional discussion.

2) Tyler Clementi story

3) The family behind an emotional movie for me that I learned about here then watched online: Prayers for Bobby (I felt I could relate to Bobby)

4) And finally media exposure showing positive roles I could relate to via 2 reinforcing series: Queer eye for the Straight guy and QAF.

[oceansunshine]

David Radcliffe with Dan Dehann, along with many from his generation are helping tear down homophobic walls and showing sexually is a "state of mind" with the new film, Kill your Darlings , being shown at Sundance:

http://www.eonline.com/news/380252/daniel-radcliffe-talks-steamy-gay-sex-scene-in-sundance-movie-it-was-something-new

and

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/kill-your-darlings-sundance-review-413913

 

I like this quote:

 

"It was something new," Radcliffe laughed at the Kill party at the Grey Goose Blue Door lounge. "But you know what, we shot that whole scene in maybe an hour and a half so it was incredibly fast-paced. I didn't really have time to stop to think and worry about it."

 

He added with a laugh, "John was very helpful in furnishing me with a lot of graphic detail of what I would be experiencing at the various stages."

[Rick Munroe]

4) And finally media exposure showing positive roles I could relate to via 2 reinforcing series: Queer eye for the Straight guy

 

I'm curious what you felt was positive about the stereotypes shown on Queer Eye (gay men naturally have style and flair?).

[Guest]

You may count me among those who doesn't believe in bisexuality. In the animal kingdom, it's almost unknown. Professor Roger Gorski used to conduct experiments in which he would manipulate fetuses and produce either homosexual or heterosexual offspring, but he never reported bisexual offspring. Another professor whose name I can't remember right now found real anatomical differences between the hypothalamuses of gay and straight men. Unfortunately, I must admit, he never did any autopsies on men who claimed to be bisexual. I wish someone would, in order to settle this issue once and for all. I, for one, feel a very strong biological response when I see shirtless pictures of men generally considered to be handsome (for example, those listed in the recent string of movie stars we'd like to fuck, or men typically seen in the Gallery section of these forums). Seeing a naked picture of a woman generally considered to be attractive does not elicit this response. I can't imagine jacking off to the picture of a woman.

Every person I've ever met who called himself bisexual would be a person I thought of as a flake. While I have met quite a few guys who have confessed to me that they used to call themselves bisexual, even though they knew they were gay, I've never met someone who used to call himself gay but now thinks of himself as bisexual. In all of my many years, I've known hundreds of gay and straight people, none of whom feels attracted to the other sex. For example, I have gay and straight relatives, but no bisexual ones.

Of course, this is nothing I can prove. No one knows to what pictures a person jacks off in the privacy of his own home (or wherever he jacks off). But I would love to see autopsy studies on the hypothalamuses of purportedly bisexual guys.

[RexAll]

You may count me among those who doesn't believe in bisexuality. In the animal kingdom, it's almost unknown. Professor Roger Gorski used to conduct experiments in which he would manipulate fetuses and produce either homosexual or heterosexual offspring, but he never reported bisexual offspring. Another professor whose name I can't remember right now found real anatomical differences between the hypothalamuses of gay and straight men. Unfortunately, I must admit, he never did any autopsies on men who claimed to be bisexual. I wish someone would, in order to settle this issue once and for all. I, for one, feel a very strong biological response when I see shirtless pictures of men generally considered to be handsome (for example, those listed in the recent string of movie stars we'd like to fuck, or men typically seen in the Gallery section of these forums). Seeing a naked picture of a woman generally considered to be attractive does not elicit this response. I can't imagine jacking off to the picture of a woman.

Every person I've ever met who called himself bisexual would be a person I thought of as a flake. While I have met quite a few guys who have confessed to me that they used to call themselves bisexual, even though they knew they were gay, I've never met someone who used to call himself gay but now thinks of himself as bisexual. In all of my many years, I've known hundreds of gay and straight people, none of whom feels attracted to the other sex. For example, I have gay and straight relatives, but no bisexual ones.

Of course, this is nothing I can prove. No one knows to what pictures a person jacks off in the privacy of his own home (or wherever he jacks off). But I would love to see autopsy studies on the hypothalamuses of purportedly bisexual guys.

 

Two replies to this--

#1. I have an older friend who just turned 70. He's married--3 children with several grandchildren. He is an upstanding citizen. He calls himself bisexual--or at least has bisexual tendencies. He's mainly gay and will admit it. But he also admits to sometimes being attracted to women--or there being something about a woman's body that turns him on. Now is he fooling himself--possibly--but possibly not. He was able to have 'relations' with his wife at least 3 times (3 children) when I as a gay male have never been sure I could achieve an erection with a female even as teenager with surging hormones.

 

#2. In Psychology when I was in college in the 80's, I remember the professor mentioning a study. I apologize for the vagueness of this--but it was long ago. The subjects were administered something--probably some hormone. The straight males had one biological response. Women had another. And self identified gay males had a response in between the other two.

 

Rex

[operalover21]

I honestly don't think there is any such think as a "bisexual" unless what you're referring to is just who you have sex with. I suppose if that's the basis for the orientation then there is such a thing. But if you're talking about "sexual orientation" -- meaning who you are attracted to both emotionally and sexually -- then I don't think there is any such thing as a "bisexual" or let's just say very few. I think you have those feelings towards one sex or the other, not both. That doesn't you don't enjoy the occasional romp but I don't think that makes you bisexual. And it's been my experience that most people who claim to be "bisexual" are actually gay and just don't want to use that word, for whatever reason.

 

There was an interesting Spanish movie last year called THE SEX OF THE ANGELS that sort of looked into this topic with two guys and one girl. Check it out. Most won't like the resolution but it was a modernist take on how to resolve the question.

[tyro]

Wow...once again, I'm the odd girl out. (Well, not surprising since I AM a girl and a touch odd as well, but anyway...) I think everyone's bisexual. I also wonder about the ages of people who believe in the idea of bisexuality; I have a hunch that younger people buy into the idea a lot more. I have a 14-year-old female student who proudly proclaims her bisexuality.

 

Frankly, I think most men are trisexual: willing to try anything three times to prove the first two weren't just flukes.

T

[+ Charlie]

It seems to me there are two kinds of sexual continua that are related but not perfectly congruent. One concerns what people do sexually, and the other concerns what they feel. It is quite possible, though not terribly common, for someone to be sexually attracted only to men (homosexual identification) but have sexual relations only with women, or to be sexually attracted only to women (heterosexual identification) but have sex only with men. I think most human beings are somewhere in between, though leaning towards the same end on both scales. The number of people who are in the middle on both scales is probably very small. I think that, especially in today's open society, many young people are not altogether sure where they are are on the continuum, and are more likely to experiment to find out. Even so, they may come to the wrong conclusion; one also should never underestimate the ability of people to fool themselves. One also should not underestimate the persuasive power of external circumstances to convince people to believe something about themselves or to do something that is not really natural to themselves.

[bigvalboy]

It seems to me there are two kinds of sexual continua that are related but not perfectly congruent. One concerns what people do sexually, and the other concerns what they feel. It is quite possible, though not terribly common, for someone to be sexually attracted only to men (homosexual identification) but have sexual relations only with women, or to be sexually attracted only to women (heterosexual identification) but have sex only with men. I think most human beings are somewhere in between, though leaning towards the same end on both scales. The number of people who are in the middle on both scales is probably very small. I think that, especially in today's open society, many young people are not altogether sure where they are are on the continuum, and are more likely to experiment to find out. Even so, they may come to the wrong conclusion; one also should never underestimate the ability of people to fool themselves. One also should not underestimate the persuasive power of external circumstances to convince people to believe something about themselves or to do something that is not really natural to themselves.

 

Very interesting points that you make Charlie. I had not really considered these ideas before, but find myself in agreement with you.

[seeker630]

It seems to me there are two kinds of sexual continua that are related but not perfectly congruent. One concerns what people do sexually, and the other concerns what they feel. It is quite possible, though not terribly common, for someone to be sexually attracted only to men (homosexual identification) but have sexual relations only with women, or to be sexually attracted only to women (heterosexual identification) but have sex only with men. I think most human beings are somewhere in between, though leaning towards the same end on both scales. The number of people who are in the middle on both scales is probably very small. I think that, especially in today's open society, many young people are not altogether sure where they are are on the continuum, and are more likely to experiment to find out. Even so, they may come to the wrong conclusion; one also should never underestimate the ability of people to fool themselves. One also should not underestimate the persuasive power of external circumstances to convince people to believe something about themselves or to do something that is not really natural to themselves.

 

I agree with your last comment but I also think: One also should not underestimate the persuasive power of internal circumstances to convince people to believe something about others.

 

I find it interesting when gay men are convinced they can deliver a sexual satisfaction to a straight man but that a woman couldn't do the same to a gay man.

[+ WilliamM]

I honestly don't think there is any such think as a "bisexual" unless what you're referring to is just who you have sex with. I suppose if that's the basis for the orientation then there is such a thing. But if you're talking about "sexual orientation" -- meaning who you are attracted to both emotionally and sexually -- then I don't think there is any such thing as a "bisexual" or let's just say very few. I think you have those feelings towards one sex or the other, not both. That doesn't you don't enjoy the occasional romp but I don't think that makes you bisexual. And it's been my experience that most people who claim to be "bisexual" are actually gay and just don't want to use that word, for whatever reason.

 

So you conclude that nearly every person who calls himself bisexual is a liar. I prefer to classify myself, and let everyone do the same about their own sexuality.

[RexAll]

Very interesting points that you make Charlie. I had not really considered these ideas before, but find myself in agreement with you.

 

However if you convince yourself and are truly happy, does it matter how you really started?

 

Rex

[Walker1]

I think it has a lot to do with external culture. In the Roman times, it was perfectly fine to marry and have a family and as you grow older take on those fine young athletic men as your paramours. That didn't get you labelled as "gay" or even abnormal. It was what it was. Even today , homosexuality was practiced in cultures such as the Sambia and then they grew up and married and had families.

 

It is just something you do-does it matter who gives you a blow job as long as you get a good one??

[Racketjock]

I believe each of are unique and special human beings capable and blessed to love. That love comes in many forms and is shared with many others in varying ways, be that with pets, women, and/ or men. I was happily married to a woman once for almost 10 years with an active an enjoyable sex life and happily partnered thereafter with a handsome man with home I shared the same. I am attracted to whom I am attracted and enjoy sharing love. I appreciate that many feel more comfortable with a label that allows them to understand others. Others get to choose that label if it helps them. I get to choose it for myself, along with what makes me happy, with whom that happiness is shared, and all the fun and rambunctious sex that happens between two consenting adults.

[Nvr2Thick]

I honestly don't think there is any such think as a "bisexual" unless what you're referring to is just who you have sex with. I suppose if that's the basis for the orientation then there is such a thing. But if you're talking about "sexual orientation" -- meaning who you are attracted to both emotionally and sexually -- then I don't think there is any such thing as a "bisexual" or let's just say very few. I think you have those feelings towards one sex or the other, not both. That doesn't you don't enjoy the occasional romp but I don't think that makes you bisexual. And it's been my experience that most people who claim to be "bisexual" are actually gay and just don't want to use that word, for whatever reason.

 

I used to think along those lines. As I grew older I realized that, for me, it was just wishful thinking. I was ashamed to be gay, and I wanted to think that bisexual men were just gay guys who were able to get it up with women and pass as straight or bi -- with varying degrees of self-awareness.

 

These days any time I try to reconcile or disprove bisexuality I only get so far before I realize that I'm defining it from my own point of view, which is irrelevant.

 

I've met a fair number of men who identified as bi or refused to be categorized and who later came to accept that they were just on a long journey toward accepting their homosexuality. There's no way for me to know whether the ones that never make that journey don't because they can't break down all the barriers in their minds, or don't because they're just not gay.

 

One of the most interesting for me was a straight guy in his 30's who had been letting guys suck his huge dick since he was in college, but only for cash. He maintained a presence on early web forums showing off his dick with and for women. For a while there were dozens of Internet pictures of him fucking different women -- very explicit amateur stuff with hot girls, but all focused on his cock. His first divorce was caused because he was openly fucking around with other women. His second and third marriages ended because even though they were supposedly open marriages each wife could not deal with the extent of the exhibitionist sex with other women. This man kept his m4m interactions very low key, advertising in local bar rags occasionally and just long enough to pick up a regular client or two. The scenes were all about men sucking his very big dick. He said that he had never been in a three-way with another guy, and that letting guys suck his dick was a side of his life he kept closely guarded. Wives, girlfriends, buddies, coworkers, and even his son knew about his amateur porn and screwing around with fuck-buddy girlfriends, but no one knew about the guys who paid to suck him.

 

I met this guy on the west coast and became his regular for my five-day vacation, hiring him every day for these extended suck sessions. We developed a strange almost-friendship during this time. He had never allowed any pictures of guys sucking his cock, but I convinced him it would be fun. We set up my automatic digital to take pictures every fifteen seconds once he was sure his face was not in view. He got a big kick out of taking point-of-view shots of me working on his cock. His motivation aside from the high rates he charged honestly seemed to be about exhibitionist pride in his dick. He admitted to me that he had jacked off with his father quite a few times when he was in his teens, and that his father always reinforced that their dicks were very special and something to be proud of -- something that set them apart from most men. He would tell me stories about getting the upper hand in the workplace by doing things like running his semi-hard dick conspicuously down his thigh, visible through his dress slack material, and how that would put him in a position of dominance over some of his bosses and peers. One of his favorite stories was of when he was performing in some amateur porn, being still rock hard when his female partner pulled off, and when the camera guy moved in for a close-up of his cock the guy couldn't help but grab it and say, "Man, if I could only borrow this for a day." He told the story like it was one of the best days of his life.

 

When I asked him about fucking guys he seemed genuinely uninterested. He didn't understand how a guy could take it and why they would like it, even though he had done anal with many women. I took him at his word that he was an oversexed straight guy who got a kick out of showing off his dick for guys, and even low key masculine gay guys.

 

Anyway, I kept touch with him through e-mail. He went underground with the straight porn and backed off the m4m cock service ads over time. I visited twice for repeats, and each time he said it had been months since the last time a guy blew him. Then ten years after I had first met him I touched base and he said we had a lot of catching up to do. We traded e-mail until he decided it was easier to call me on the phone. The story he told was one I would have never expected. About six months earlier he had decided he wanted some fun and some cash so he put up his first Craigslist ad in a long while, and met a pretty cool masculine gay man (pics looked like a less hairy, better built Jason Beghe), a reasonably well-off executive/jock type. The guy became a regular cocksucker, and he found himself calling the guy and asking him to come back for more sex for pay blowjobs. When the the guy became less interested in paying all the time he started inviting him over just for the cocksucking. This guy asked the usual questions about whether he ever fucked guys with that monster, and eventually he got curious. Questions led to plans, he told me. He had developed a real bond with this suck buddy, one of very few men who had sucked his dick without paying, and he decided that he wanted to fuck him. I could spend another couple paragraphs describing that first time as he had told it to me, but one point sums it all up. He said that the moment he breached this guy's ass he knew that he was a gay man, and that it had never even entered his mind fleetingly until that day. That all of his sexual activity with girlfriends, wives, and the countless casual female partners from his teens to his forties had been overcompensation for desires he had never allowed to surface. He told me that he fucked this man with more emotion and passion that he had ever felt in his life. He found he had to turn his partner over and fuck him face to face so that he could kiss him, and that without reservation he sucked the guy's cock and swallowed his cum. Having never spent more than an hour or two with any man and just for dick service sessions, he and this guy stayed at his house together for four days, both calling in sick at work so they could play in bed and bond.

 

When he told me the story he was six months into an exclusive relationship with this same man. He said that he quickly broke up with the girlfriend he had previously thought would become his fourth wife. A month later he came out to her and eventually to his son and his friends. That was about four years ago. He and I have lost touch, but his Facebook page shows him as openly gay and in a committed relationship with the same guy.

 

It's a fun story to tell, and I'm not sure what it means. For me, years ago I would have thought that this guy wasn't even necessarily bi -- just oversexed and straight, and able to enjoy sex with men just for the feeling. He might have been my justification that there really are legitimate variations between straight, bi, "bi-acting and fooling himself", and anything in between. I don't think I've disproved any of this. I'm just perpetually impressed by this guy for whom, after decades, his own homosexuality was unlocked and instantly revealed during a sexual act with the right man.

[Guest]

Wow...once again, I'm the odd girl out. (Well, not surprising since I AM a girl and a touch odd as well, but anyway...) I think everyone's bisexual. I also wonder about the ages of people who believe in the idea of bisexuality; I have a hunch that younger people buy into the idea a lot more. I have a 14-year-old female student who proudly proclaims her bisexuality.

 

Frankly, I think most men are trisexual: willing to try anything three times to prove the first two weren't just flukes.

T

 

I remember once a long time ago a comedian who did a routine (it might even have been George Carlin) who said "I'm quadrisexual. I'll do anything for a quarter!". Of course, there are guys who will make a living letting gay guys have their way with their body, and some might indeed be straight. I avoid escorts who identify themselves as straight because they tend to be lousy in the sack. I imagine I'd be lousy if a woman paid me to have sex. Of course, I don't think anyone could place too much significance in a 14 year-old's sexual identification, because they're just starting to explore their sexuality. It's especially difficulty for women, since their sexual feelings aren't as intense as men's (or boys'). When I was 14, I didn't know whether I was gay or not. I knew that I had extremely strong physical reactions to the sight of muscular guys, but I didn't know if it was "just a phase" or not. Taking showers at the gym in junior high school and high school was a horrid ordeal for me, because I could not look at a jock's body without getting an enormous, raging hard-on. I had to stare at the floor and then turn on the cold water... I didn't know it meant I was gay, but there was certainly not a drop of doubt in my mind about whether or not I was physically stimulated by the sight of muscular guys.

[Rick Munroe]

So you conclude that nearly every person who calls himself bisexual is a liar. I prefer to classify myself, and let everyone do the same about their own sexuality.

 

The comments in this thread declaring that there are no bisexuals remind me of when homophobes say we choose to be gay (or when Stevie Wonder says we're just "confused"). It's all the same bigotry.

[RexAll]

I used to think along those lines. As I grew older I realized that, for me, it was just wishful thinking. I was ashamed to be gay, and I wanted to think that bisexual men were just gay guys who were able to get it up with women and pass as straight or bi -- with varying degrees of self-awareness.

 

These days any time I try to reconcile or disprove bisexuality I only get so far before I realize that I'm defining it from my own point of view, which is irrelevant.

 

I've met a fair number of men who identified as bi or refused to be categorized and who later came to accept that they were just on a long journey toward accepting their homosexuality. There's no way for me to know whether the ones that never make that journey don't because they can't break down all the barriers in their minds, or don't because they're just not gay.

 

One of the most interesting for me was a straight guy in his 30's who had been letting guys suck his huge dick since he was in college, but only for cash. He maintained a presence on early web forums showing off his dick with and for women. For a while there were dozens of Internet pictures of him fucking different women -- very explicit amateur stuff with hot girls, but all focused on his cock. His first divorce was caused because he was openly fucking around with other women. His second and third marriages ended because even though they were supposedly open marriages each wife could not deal with the extent of the exhibitionist sex with other women. This man kept his m4m interactions very low key, advertising in local bar rags occasionally and just long enough to pick up a regular client or two. The scenes were all about men sucking his very big dick. He said that he had never been in a three-way with another guy, and that letting guys suck his dick was a side of his life he kept closely guarded. Wives, girlfriends, buddies, coworkers, and even his son knew about his amateur porn and screwing around with fuck-buddy girlfriends, but no one knew about the guys who paid to suck him.

 

I met this guy on the west coast and became his regular for my five-day vacation, hiring him every day for these extended suck sessions. We developed a strange almost-friendship during this time. He had never allowed any pictures of guys sucking his cock, but I convinced him it would be fun. We set up my automatic digital to take pictures every fifteen seconds once he was sure his face was not in view. He got a big kick out of taking point-of-view shots of me working on his cock. His motivation aside from the high rates he charged honestly seemed to be about exhibitionist pride in his dick. He admitted to me that he had jacked off with his father quite a few times when he was in his teens, and that his father always reinforced that their dicks were very special and something to be proud of -- something that set them apart from most men. He would tell me stories about getting the upper hand in the workplace by doing things like running his semi-hard dick conspicuously down his thigh, visible through his dress slack material, and how that would put him in a position of dominance over some of his bosses and peers. One of his favorite stories was of when he was performing in some amateur porn, being still rock hard when his female partner pulled off, and when the camera guy moved in for a close-up of his cock the guy couldn't help but grab it and say, "Man, if I could only borrow this for a day." He told the story like it was one of the best days of his life.

 

When I asked him about fucking guys he seemed genuinely uninterested. He didn't understand how a guy could take it and why they would like it, even though he had done anal with many women. I took him at his word that he was an oversexed straight guy who got a kick out of showing off his dick for guys, and even low key masculine gay guys.

 

Anyway, I kept touch with him through e-mail. He went underground with the straight porn and backed off the m4m cock service ads over time. I visited twice for repeats, and each time he said it had been months since the last time a guy blew him. Then ten years after I had first met him I touched base and he said we had a lot of catching up to do. We traded e-mail until he decided it was easier to call me on the phone. The story he told was one I would have never expected. About six months earlier he had decided he wanted some fun and some cash so he put up his first Craigslist ad in a long while, and met a pretty cool masculine gay man (pics looked like a less hairy, better built Jason Beghe), a reasonably well-off executive/jock type. The guy became a regular cocksucker, and he found himself calling the guy and asking him to come back for more sex for pay blowjobs. When the the guy became less interested in paying all the time he started inviting him over just for the cocksucking. This guy asked the usual questions about whether he ever fucked guys with that monster, and eventually he got curious. Questions led to plans, he told me. He had developed a real bond with this suck buddy, one of very few men who had sucked his dick without paying, and he decided that he wanted to fuck him. I could spend another couple paragraphs describing that first time as he had told it to me, but one point sums it all up. He said that the moment he breached this guy's ass he knew that he was a gay man, and that it had never even entered his mind fleetingly until that day. That all of his sexual activity with girlfriends, wives, and the countless casual female partners from his teens to his forties had been overcompensation for desires he had never allowed to surface. He told me that he fucked this man with more emotion and passion that he had ever felt in his life. He found he had to turn his partner over and fuck him face to face so that he could kiss him, and that without reservation he sucked the guy's cock and swallowed his cum. Having never spent more than an hour or two with any man and just for dick service sessions, he and this guy stayed at his house together for four days, both calling in sick at work so they could play in bed and bond.

 

When he told me the story he was six months into an exclusive relationship with this same man. He said that he quickly broke up with the girlfriend he had previously thought would become his fourth wife. A month later he came out to her and eventually to his son and his friends. That was about four years ago. He and I have lost touch, but his Facebook page shows him as openly gay and in a committed relationship with the same guy.

 

It's a fun story to tell, and I'm not sure what it means. For me, years ago I would have thought that this guy wasn't even necessarily bi -- just oversexed and straight, and able to enjoy sex with men just for the feeling. He might have been my justification that there really are legitimate variations between straight, bi, "bi-acting and fooling himself", and anything in between. I don't think I've disproved any of this. I'm just perpetually impressed by this guy for whom, after decades, his own homosexuality was unlocked and instantly revealed during a sexual act with the right man.

 

On the counter side, there was an article possibly in The Advocate--maybe 3 or 4 years ago about a guy in probably SF who I think had fooled around a lot when he was younger with both sexes-then settled down with boyfriends--then per the article as I remember, woke up one day and realized he wasn't gay. Others may remember the article better.

 

rex

[+ purplekow]

If my wife had outlived me, I doubt i would have ever had sex with a man, apart from a episode of experimentation in college, I found a very specific looking man handsome but I did not envision having sex with them. I was very happy with sex with women and particularly with my wife.

 

After her passing, women became less and less interesting and on my 50th birthday I decided to hire a man to see if i could stir the cooling embers of my sexual fire. Hiring a woman had not done the trick nor had not for pay heterosexual contact. I hired a male escort and had a great time. So great a time, I hired him again two days later.

 

My interest in sex with both sexes flared. Those episodes were like gasoline on those cooling embers. I have hired less lately but I have enjoyed sex with men many times since that initial hiring. i have less frequently had sex with women and at this point, I am less enthusiastic about it.

 

In my mind, having sex with women is like cheating on my late wife while sex with men presents no such conflict.

 

I have never been asked, but if I were to be asked to label my sexuality, I would say I was MALEable.

[leigh.bess.toad]

In my mind, having sex with women is like cheating on my late wife while sex with men presents no such conflict.

 

Interesting point PK. And sort of my situation, except my wife is very much living. Although it was hard for her to deal with, she knew me being gay wasn't a choice and really explained a lot about our lives. It didn't seem nearly as bad as if I was cheating on her with another woman. In fact, last week, I was kvetching about a female acquaintance who was driving me nuts on Facebook with so many damned shares. When she thought I was becoming involved with a woman, she reacted much more harshly than she did finding out I was gay and now have a partner.

 

For me being gay is a state of mind. To me, it is who I really connect with at the visceral level. In my case it is men. Looking at naked women does nothing for me, although I can certainly admire a woman's beauty and attributes. But is with men that I get that sense. And it is with a man that I will spend the rest of my life. There certainly are, to my mind, true bisexuals. I know because one of my best guys, and the guy I've voted for the last 2 years in the EOY contest, the Legendary Dave, is indeed a true bisexual. He has relations, emotional as well as physical, with both men and women. He has clients who are both men and women. So I know that bisexuality is indeed a reality. To me, it is indeed a spectrum of sexuality from purebred gay to purebred straight, and everything in between.

[operalover21]

It seems to me there are two kinds of sexual continua that are related but not perfectly congruent. One concerns what people do sexually, and the other concerns what they feel. It is quite possible, though not terribly common, for someone to be sexually attracted only to men (homosexual identification) but have sexual relations only with women, or to be sexually attracted only to women (heterosexual identification) but have sex only with men. I think most human beings are somewhere in between, though leaning towards the same end on both scales. The number of people who are in the middle on both scales is probably very small. I think that, especially in today's open society, many young people are not altogether sure where they are are on the continuum, and are more likely to experiment to find out. Even so, they may come to the wrong conclusion; one also should never underestimate the ability of people to fool themselves. One also should not underestimate the persuasive power of external circumstances to convince people to believe something about themselves or to do something that is not really natural to themselves.

 

You said, far more eloquently, what I attempted to say earlier. Exactly.