Can I Keep Flying?

[+ Lucky]

Airports are more crowded than ever, and empty middle seats fast becoming extinct. My flight from Palm Springs to New York stopped in Denver so I could stretch my legs, but that's where things started getting bad. My regional jet to Denver was actually more comfortable than the big United plane. As we left Denver, the recorded video bragged about how this plane was the future of flying, as it is so much lighter and consumes less fuel. It's also much more cramped.

 

So, I decided that on the return, I had to fly Economy Plus and get the extra legroom. We were flying nonstop to LAX out of JFK, and the plane actually left the gate 5 minutes early. We then spent almost an hour waiting to take off. It was miserable, and the jerk in front of me slammed his seat into my face while we were still on the ground. I politely asked him to put it back up, but he is from LA, and we know how rude those people are. So I put it up for him. The flight was exceptionally uncomfortable. I didn't need to upgrade to Economy Plus because the entire coach section already was Economy Plus! We did have a couple of inches more legroom, but the seat was narrower than ever. The girl in the middle seat was on the large side, so I had to sit to the left of my tight seat. Imagine, United making the whole coach section Economy Plus must be an admission on how tight the seating is for a long flight.

 

Things got worse in LA though. The regional jet to Palm Springs was one half hour late, to which they kept adding ten minutes until it was an hour late. We were tired by then. It turned out that the regional jet to Denver was much more comfortable than this one. My seat had been changed, and I found myself in the very last row of the tiniest seats ever, and absolutely no leg room. Every claustrophobic bone in my body screamed that I was not getting trapped in the back of the plane with no way out, so I headed up to the front, not even able to stand straight as the ceiling was so low. Anyway, I got moved to an aisle seat, but there was no place for my legs, really! I had to put them in the aisle. I am 6'1, which isn't the tallest those flights probably see. Why do they make the seating area so small?

 

Coincidentally, my Denver flight qualified me for Premier status, so I thought I might fly United some more, but that's not a happy thought after these flights. My American flight from Chicago was bigger, and I actually had an empty middle seat, so maybe Premier status is wasted on me.

[+ Charlie]

I was amazed that on my roundtrip flights between Phoenix and Salt Lake City last week, on a US Airways Airbus 319, I had an empty seat next to me on both flights. In fact, the young man (maybe late 20s) sitting in the window seat, taking photos out the window, excitedly told me it was his first flight EVER; I told him not to expect things to be quite so satisfying (flights were also on time) on every future flight.

 

On my regional jet from Phoenix to Palm Springs, I also had the claustrophobic last seat (13A, naturally) on a full flight, and it was awful.

[+ Lucky]

Flying Virgin would require me to drive to LAX from Palm Springs, which is also not an attractive option, although I have done it for international trips.

Charlie, did you know that Delta flies non-stop to Salt Lake? I find that the stop in Denver is good as I get to stretch my legs. By leaving at 6 am from PSP, I can still get to New York in time for an evening play. Of course, 6 am here is 9 am there...

[citylaw1]

I either fly Jet Blue Extra Leg Room, business, first, or stay home. I flew to Rome in coach and I thought I was going to jump out of the plane. 2 years ago I flew the red eye from LAX to NYC and I swore it off. I have literally stopped going to Europe based on the $6500 round trip airfare to Rome in business class. It just isn't worth it anymore.

[+ Oliver]

To and from Zurich, Switzerland in September on United - Swiss (all coach), from Columbus (no direct flights anywhere!) through Chicago. Tolerated trip over (after all I'm anticipating a fun trip, which it was). But coming home - yuck! By the time I got on the regional flight to Columbus (only an hour) from Chicago I was so antsy I could not keep my legs from moving. If it had been any longer I might have been screaming. I would like to see New Zealand and Australia, but there's no way I could last through those flights, either to or from:(.

[+ Charlie]

Flying Virgin would require me to drive to LAX from Palm Springs, which is also not an attractive option, although I have done it for international trips.

Charlie, did you know that Delta flies non-stop to Salt Lake? I find that the stop in Denver is good as I get to stretch my legs. By leaving at 6 am from PSP, I can still get to New York in time for an evening play. Of course, 6 am here is 9 am there...

 

Lucky, you obviously don't keep up with local Palm Springs news: Virgin America flies from PSP to JFK via SFO, and they are preparing to start offering one flight per week non-stop from PSP to JFK! Of course, the flights are only available in Palm Springs' "season."

 

I checked the Delta flight to SLC, but it was more expensive than the US Air flight with change in PHX, and I didn't want to go that early in the morning.

[+ sf westcoaster]

Flying is no fun! I am at a stage in life where I will not suffer in Economy for anything over two hours - I either go business class or I don't go. Of course that means less travel since buisness class costs so much more. The only good thing about flying is that at 75 you do not have to remove your shoes.

[nate_sf]

Lucky, you obviously don't keep up with local Palm Springs news: Virgin America flies from PSP to JFK via SFO, and they are preparing to start offering one flight per week non-stop from PSP to JFK! Of course, the flights are only available in Palm Springs' "season."

 

I just flew Virgin SFO-PSP this past weekend and it was a good experience (and YES Oliver, they DID let me on the plane ). I went for Economy Plus or whatever they call it on the inbound trip and had an empty middle seat next to me. I went regular economy on the return and they said the flight was only about 30% full (Wed evening 6:55 PM). A handsome muscle boy sat in the middle seat next to me, so I did not bother to move (and neither did the guy in the aisle seat. Hmmmm). On-time both flights. Regular full-sized jets.

 

I expect the flights will get more full as service becomes more popular, but for this trip it was great. Probably a few less virgins on the return trip (cheap shot, but had to be said...).

[EZEtoGRU]

Flying economy these days is a pain in the a**. Literally. I maintain very high frequent flyer status on both AA and UA so my upgrade percentage when I don't purchase first class (on domestic flights) is nearly 100% for flights where first class is offered. I do everything I can to avoid regional jets and will go well out of my way to be able to fly only mainline aircraft. For the routes I tend to fly, AA has more mainline aircraft running than UA. For instance, AA still runs mainline from MIA and DFW to Montreal. UA seems to only fly regional jets to Montreal from its hubs. As far as longhaul international flights are concerned, I have not been in economy for years. I either buy discounted business class........or use miles (or premier status upgrade coupons) to upgrade to business class. As others have stated, at this point in my life, I simply won't fly economy any more on longhaul international trips. If I don't get business or first on those flights, I simply don't go. My three point suggestion for making commercial flying more tolerable is:

 

1. Focus on one airline to get the highest frequent flyer status possible. This gets you a higher liklihood of upgrades.

2. Join that airlines' lounge (United Club or Admirals club) so you can have a more relaxed time in the airport while waiting.

3. Joint the TSA pre-check program if you are able. This is a godsend and makes passing through security a heavenly experience in those airports where it is offered.

 

As far as Virgin America goes, they have a great reputation for on-board service, technology and the overall flying experience. Having said that, they have lost money since they started and I understand their investors are getting nervous and demanding positive returns. I don't feel their business model is viable long term. My call is that Virgin America won't exist within two years. Fly them in the interim for a great experience but don't expect them to be around for a long time. Just IMHO of course.......but I do follow the airline industry pretty closely and have mucho interest in it.

[+ Lucky]

I just flew Virgin SFO-PSP this past weekend and it was a good experience (and YES Oliver, they DID let me on the plane ). I went for Economy Plus or whatever they call it on the inbound trip and had an empty middle seat next to me. I went regular economy on the return and they said the flight was only about 30% full (Wed evening 6:55 PM). A handsome muscle boy sat in the middle seat next to me, so I did not bother to move (and neither did the guy in the aisle seat. Hmmmm). On-time both flights. Regular full-sized jets.

 

I expect the flights will get more full as service becomes more popular, but for this trip it was great. Probably a few less virgins on the return trip (cheap shot, but had to be said...).

 

Charlie, it's true that I am unaware that Virgins are now flying to Palm Springs. That certainly wasn't the case when we had the Palm Springs Weekend! And now Nate says Muscle Boys too! I can't wait to get to the airport! I'll just watch the incoming flights!

[justaguy]

This summer I routed my trip to Europe through Iceland, giving myself a long layover each way. I found I really appreciated the chance to get out and do something. From now on, that's how I'm going to arrange my trips to Europe.

[adriano46]

This summer I routed my trip to Europe through Iceland, giving myself a long layover each way. I found I really appreciated the chance to get out and do something. From now on, that's how I'm going to arrange my trips to Europe.

 

That's a great idea. I try to do the same but prefer in going to Europe to get to my destination and deplane ASAP. I may reconsider.

[azhiker]

Burned off some United miles earlier this month going from Phoenix to Charles De Gaulle through Newark. Sat in economy window out bound and seating was tight but one Ambien and slept all the way second flight. Return paid extra for Economy Plus and it was worth it, an extra 6 or 7” legroom. Took side trip to Barcelona and Air France is now packing them in like US Airways but there was decent food service, something I never take on US carriers. Trip back to Phoenix was exhausting, BCN, CDG, EWR, PHX and I asked myself afterward how long I can keep doing that kind of trip even with no flight issues.

[Lankypeters]

Just flew United to/from Europe. Did economy plus going over, which afforded some extra leg room. Otherwise, the experience was miserable. The plane was jammed and every time I got up, I had to climb over blankets, magazines and other junk. A heavyset man next to me took off his shoes and his feet smelled. Two passengers behind me struck up a conversation -- not loud, but certainly audible -- around midnight, waking me twice (I'd taken a valium). I finally asked if they could keep it down. They obliged, barely. The worst aspect of all was the food. I had some sort of chicken -- about four pieces and inch long, probably dark meat, in soggy white rice and thin sauce. I returned home in business class, which was considerably better. Best of all in this cabin is the flatbed seating. Four meals were offered, each comprising several courses -- appetizer, salad, main, cheese, ice cream. I had an omelette that came with crispy potatoes, an apple fritter, sausages and a vegetable garnish. Throughout the afternoon they served snacks and before landing we had sandwiches and fruit. Not bad, kids! I cashed in miles to do this and it was entirely worth it, especially since in addition to all the food and attention from the attendants, I slept for two hours. And, oh yes: while I was settling in to my seat, a handsome, uniformed man walked by in the aisle. I asked if I could check my coat. He said he wasn't checking coats. I said, "Are you flying the plane?" He said he was. I'd fly with him any time. Even in coach.

[edjames]

There is no joy or comfort in flying anymore. None. Finished. Done. Over. If you are able to afford business class or first, then you might have some expectation of comfort and service. But it will never be guaranteed.

United sucks! I flew them to LV last year and it was a disaster. Delayed flights, overcrowding, poor service, baggage problems, etc. Never again will I fly United. Quite simply I am boycotting them. I thought the plane was going to revolt when the flight attendent announced they would not sell alcohol or food because their credit card reader wasn't getting a signal! What happened to the "old way"? Didn't they ever use cash? Don't get me started. I sent them a follow-up email and I never received a reply.

Virgin America isn't any better. I flew them to LV the year before and the flight was oversold, completely full, and the bitchy little male flight attendent almost had a close encounter with my fist. AND, I, too, paid extra for an economy-plus seat and services.

I do not expect the airline industry to get any better any time soon, so beware and be prepared.

The fees will go up and taxes as well. I booked a mileage ticket from London and the taxes on the ticket were over $800!!!! Beware, the UK has the highest travel taxes in the world, although, I recently received a nice email from BA requesting my support in their efforts to reduce the tax situation. Nice that one airline has some sympathy for it's customers.

 

So, just remember, there are no more "Friendly skies" ....

 

ED

[jimboivyo]

I don't understand how there's shock left for people and commercial air travel. we've been down this path for awhile. it's not getting better.

 

Either fly private, pay for premium or deal with the back of the bus. You can also take a train, a greyhound or rent a car. there are options and it could be a lot worse. try flying some of the discounter euro airlines. you'll scramble back to UA in no time, thanking them for the (lack of) service you get.

[LurkerSpeaks]

Going back to Lucky's original question--"Can I keep flying?".. Everyone knows and agrees that air travel sucks unless you shell out the big bucks or get upgraded. I think the more pressing question for Lucky would be, "Are you ready to give up long distance traveling?" For shorter distances, there is the car or the train, but there is no other option for long distance traveling other than the cruise ship. So what choices does the "average Joe" have but endure the temporary hell to get to the destination. One of my favorite lines is "short term sacrifices for long term gains".. Sure, that 12 hours of flying might be hell, but think of the 7 days you will enjoy at your destination....

 

Guess this makes me a Pollyanna.. LOL

[+ Lucky]

No, you have a point. If I was going to go to Phoenix, I would drive the 4 hours rather than fly. Same to LA. But not SF. The shorter the flight, though, the easier to tolerate, unless you are in the back row of a shrink-wrapped regional jet. Flying to New York, I find that I like stopping in Denver, since I can stretch my legs. It also mean that if I have a bad seat on one flight, I might have a better seat on another.

 

For international trips, I have often upgraded, and have so many miles that I can do that some more. I've gotten over 200,000 miles just from opening up credit card accounts and checking accounts. So, if Brazil, Thailand, or London is still in my travel plans, I can do it comfortably. But I still would have to deal with the other unpleasantness of flying- the checking in, security, crowds, expensive food, expensive taxis, flight delays and cancellations. So maybe I won't go to all of those places!

[+ Charlie]

This summer I routed my trip to Europe through Iceland, giving myself a long layover each way. I found I really appreciated the chance to get out and do something. From now on, that's how I'm going to arrange my trips to Europe.

 

My first trip to Europe was on Icelandic Airlines, because I could buy a roundtrip ticket to Luxembourg that was good for 45 days, for $270. We had a stopover in Keflavik, and I decided to stay for a day on my way back. I enjoyed it so much that I did it for longer periods on two subsequent trips. One trip when I did not stay over, I was returning to the US on the day Richard Nixon resigned. I joined a group of Americans huddled around a transistor radio in the Keflavik boarding lounge to hear Gerald Ford sworn in as President.

 

The only problem with flying Icelandic (I think it's now called Icelandair) was that it didn't belong to IATA, so the only place it could fly to in Europe was Luxembourg, which meant one had to make a separate booking from there to wherever else one wanted to go in Europe, though they did include a private train between Luxembourg and Paris as part of the flight package if one wished.

[+ Lucky]

I hadn't realized that this article was in the LA Times on the 19th:

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/oct/19/business/la-fi-airline-seats-20121020

[LurkerSpeaks]

thanks Lucky.. That article talks about seats with extra legroom.. But what about us short fat guys? we need more width, not necessarily more leg room..Guess we are still stuck squeezing into that overly narrow seat, causing the armrest to inch its way up on its own..