HIV problem with dishonest partner

[Guest wisconguy]

Hi Everyone I've been a reader of this forum for a couple months now and I wasn't sure if I'd ever post or not but I need some advice and maybe to know if anyone's been through what I have.

 

I recently ended a relationship of several years with my partner. I found out after the break up that my partner was HIV positive and had been for several years before I even met him. He never disclosed this to me during the relationship and frequently allowed us to have unprotected sex saying that we were a commited couple and condoms weren't necessary. He actually made me feel guilty at one point early in our relationship for suggesting condom use. He said it was a sign that I wasn't fully "commited" to the relationship. I stupidly fell for this trick.

 

My first question-How could anyone do this to another person?

My second question-I've been told by the local District Attorney's office that even if I remain negative I can still press charges for aggravated assault with intent to kill under something called the "Fear of AIDS" precedent. Should I prosecute?

 

For my third question, I need to explain a little more. I had a very good friend prior to meeting this lover. I had always thought this friend and I were very very close. During the course of the relationsip with my partner we ended up staying with this friend of mine at his house while waiting for a job transfer to go through. The break up happened while living at this friend's house and I left the house. After I learned about my ex's HIV positive status I informed my friend. My friend denounced me and accused me of trying to turn him against my ex. My friend continued to let my ex live in his house and cut off the friendship with me. This made me very angry and left me feeling utterly betrayed. I'm at a loss and don't really know how to ask the question on this one. But has anyone had similar experiences? What the hell do I do besides testing myself forever? By the way does anyone know the absolute incubation period for HIV? How long before I can stop worrying? Or do I have to live the rest of my life in fear? Should I try to repair the relationship with my friend who betrayed me? What do you think?

 

Wisconguy

[Guest Ash Jordan]

1. I'm SO sorry that this has happened to you. That is HORRIBLE.

 

2. YES you should press charges against this guy. It sounds like he has no conscious and he WILL do this to someone else as well. Most likely he was cheating on you the entire the relationship and only God knows how many people he gave AIDS/HIV to.

 

3. Regarding HIV testing, you should immediately get a HIV DNA test. This test is accurate up to 1-2 days of infection of HIV. It is a little more expensive than the traditional test--but VERY worth it for peace of mind. If you live in Los Angeles, you can do this at the AIM Health Clinic in the Valley. If you take the traditional HIV test, it is only accurate up to 5-6 months post infection. Translation--if you were only infected 3 months ago...you could still show up as negative. But with the DNA test, you would have had to be infected in the last couple of days to ring a POZ test results. DNA testing is WAY MORE accrate and I recommend it for everyone reading this.

 

4. Chin up and keep the faith--this is NOT your fault and I'm sure you'll make it!! *hug*

[Guest Merlin]

They say that 90% of the time, the antivirus will show up in the standard test within 3 months, and within 6 months the rest of the time. So, you can be fairly confident after 3 months, but should be tested again at 6 mo. I think you definitely prosecute your ex. He seems to be doing the same thing to your former friend and will undoubtedly continue doing so. He needs to be stopped and you would not want to feel responsible if he infects someone else. Also, the prosecution will help get the word around that this is a serious crime. Do you know if he was taking the "cocktail" when you were with him? It usually reduces the amount of virus in the body fluids, and to that extent probably reduces the chance that you were infected

[VaHawk]

No offense intended, but this sounds to me that you are mostly going thru the anger, wanting revenge, hurt him back stage so common to a relationship breakup. By all means, if you have not been tested, then do so immediately. If you have been having unprotected sex with this guy for years and as you say, he was infected before you even started your relationship, then any kind of incubation period has long since past, so you should expect immediate results via the standard tests. Since you are actively engaged in gay sexual activity, testing should always be part of your life's agenda.

 

How could anyone do this to someone else? Well, I believe you did it to yourself. You can't rely on another revealing that information to you, as someone people just aren't honest and some people, like yourself, never get tested and thus have no knowledge that they are HIV+. Only you can be responsible for what sexual activities you engage in.

 

Should you pursue it legally? Probably a waste of time and financial resources for all concerned, as you were willing engaged in a long time relationship with this guy and unless there are things you haven't stated, it seems it would be your word against his as to whether he knowingly witheld that information from you. You are an adult, aren't you?

 

As far as the relationship with your long time friend, obviously your bf and your "friend" were engaging in "sexual activity" while at your friend's house. This was probably just the final blow that led to your breakup and it seems that neither want to deal with you right now, so just let go. If your ex, as you say was not even honest enough to tell you he was HIV+, then he most likely was never monogomous with you.

 

I wish you the best.

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

>My first question-How could anyone do this to another person?

 

People do a myriad number of things to one another without logic, morality or a sense of good faith and fair dealing entering into the equation. We often like to believe this is institutional (i.e. Enron or Worldcom officers acting in a self-interested manner contrary to their stockholders, employees and the public interest), but it all comes down to human nature.

 

The old Ronald Reagan adage comes to mind: trust, but verify. Without trust, intimacy and friendship would be impossible, so I would be highly uninclined to suggest an approach to life and the individuals you meet based on the bare minimum of trust. However, I would suggest you attempt more logic and rationality as the underpinning of your trust. When you partner suggested that condom used showed a lack of commitment, I would have responded that it was my own lack of faith in myself and that I would feel better about our own mutual health if we both went together and got openly tested and the results were given to us both jointly.

 

Certainly a wholly immorally individual could and would certainly attempt to bluff their way out of the situation and ultimately, in many instance, it will come down to the best exercise of your own individual judgment. However, you must also realize that however you act, whatever you decide, you must share in the responsibility for both your actions and those you choose not to participate in.

 

>My second question-I've been told by the local District

>Attorney's office that even if I remain negative I can still

>press charges for aggravated assault with intent to kill under

>something called the "Fear of AIDS" precedent. Should I

>prosecute?

 

This is a decision only you can make. However, you should be aware that prosecution will involve your testimony and such testimony would be public. I am not suggesting this is reason not to act, but you should be aware that if revenge were your only motivation, prosecution would have consequences for you and for others, not just your former partner.

 

I am certain that there are many other factors involved in a situation such as this beyond that bare facts you have provided. I would suggest that you avail yourself of counseling, to help you sort out what happened and to help you determine which paths are appropriate and best for you and those who will be impacted.

 

 

>For my third question, I need to explain a little more. . . .

This made me very angry and left me feeling utterly betrayed.

 

You have several questions here: I think this one is again one of human nature. You cannot force nor should you want someone to remain friends with you; you are asking this person to "choose sides" and even though you feel you are blameless here, this friend of yours, inspite of a long history with you, has made a choice that upsets you and was not what you expected. This either means there is more here than we have been told to provide a good and helpfull suggestion and that there is either more history between you and this friend or this friend and your former partner, or simply that this friend of yours was not really either as good or as close a friend as you believed.

 

>Or do I have to live the rest of my life in

>fear?

 

Obviously, you need to be tested. If you have been with this partner for some time and you have been having unprotected sex for some time, you are at risk. The three to six month rule of thumb as you were told above is a good one, but in your case, it may not apply.

 

You need to be tested promptly, if you have not already done so, you need not test and "live in fear" over this particular risk for the rest of your life. Ash Jordan's suggestion of a viral DNA test is a good one and even though presumably you are in Wisconsin and not North Hollywood, I am certain you can arrange to have this test done privately and with minimal expense. Your local AIDS hot line can provide you with resources in this regard. There are no absolutes in life, but the window is not the "rest of your life" - you need to be tested and follow up as directed by your health care providers.

 

Good luck to you.

[Guest wisconguy]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

Let me just clarify some things. Yes he cheated on me while we were together.

Also, the prosecution is not a civic matter but a criminal one. I'm not seeking money. The DA has simply asked me if I'd be willing to testify, since without me, there is no case. The DA's office is urging me to testify, because they want this "threat to other's lives off the street".

I'm not concerned about confidentiality. I've tested negative for the last couple years, I get tested regularly (regardless of circumstances) simply because of my lifestyle.

 

Let me just say there was no cheating between my friend and ex. This I know for a fact.

I'm rushed now, but will respond more later. Thanks for all your input.

[Guest wisconguy]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

Let me also add, that I do understand my own responsibility in this, and WONT let someone talk me into unsafe sex again. I'm taking my part of the blame for my own stupidity, I guess I just never thought a HUMAN could do this to another. I figured there was a general sense of decency among humans. I certainly know that if I tested positive, I would NEVER engage in sex again. My choice, not something I would expect of all positive people. I DO expect that positive people have a duty to inform their partners at the very least. Is that expecting too much?

 

Wisconguy

[trilingual]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

Regardless of what you do with the D.A., I'd sue the guy civilly. There's nothing wrong about seeking compensation (and even punitive damages) for what amounts to assault with a deadly weapon. The criminal case might not go anywhere, because the standard of proof (beyond a reasonable doubt) is much higher than in a civil case (preponderance of the evidence). That's why it was hard to convict O.J. Simpson criminally, but easier to go after him civilly.

 

If your account of the situation is true (and I have no reason to doubt your veracity) there's no excuse for such behavior, by anyone. I disagree with VaHawk on this one. If you can't trust your lover, who CAN you trust? What kind of a relationship would it be without trust? People need to be able to rely on what people tell them, especially people who are close to them. Otherwise it's strictly the law of the jungle. But we don't live in the jungle, even though there are some real beasts roaming around out there. I say, go get him! This isn't about revenge (or shouldn't be). You were used, abused, and exposed to deadly peril by this guy. You deserve something for what you went through. If you prevail in court, this will be a lesson to him and others who might be tempted to behave the same way that they can't do it without facing serious, even ruinous, consequences.

 

As for your ex-friend, that's sad, but sometimes these things happen. Mourn his loss and move on. Good luck!

[Luv2play]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

I beg to differ on this one. Having reread the original post, I was struck by the phrase "he allowed us to have unprotected sex". Well hello, where were you when he "allowed" this to happen? And for the part about his pressure tactics about being in a "committed relationship", did you equate this to a certificate of HIV- status?

 

I'm not sure what a court would say about a plaintiff that did not take any steps to protect himself, when all he had to do was insist on wearing a condom. This is basic. If you put yourself at risk, should you then be able to ask the court to put all the onus on the other party, whether he lied or not. We are all grown-ups after all and responsible FOR OUR OWN ACTIONS. In this case, I don't think our friend took any responsibility for his own behavior. Sorry, but that's how I see it. :-(

[+ Lucky]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

I agree that the poster is going through an angry phase, but just because he could not act responsibly should not imply that other people can not.

[Guest wisconguy]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

My angry phase is long over. I have had plenty of time for that. I do have a genuine concern for others. And I would hate for someone else to be in my position right now. If I do nothing, many people most likely will experience it. AND THAT is my responsibility in being honest and not allowing the harm to go further.

As for my part, yes, I've admitted that. However, EVEN WITH a condom, I believe I have a right to know my LONG TERM partner's HIV status. Even with the safest of sex, there are risks, and anyone should have ALL the facts when making their OWN decisions.

 

Wisconguy

[Guest wisconguy]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

Also, I'm not the first case the courts have had. Do some research on the internet. Many people have been prosecuted crimanally and civally even when the "victim" (note the quotes) remains HIV negative.

So as to the court's reactions comments made above, I'm sure the DA wouldn't be wasting his time if he didn't think it was going somewhere.

 

Wisconguy

[trilingual]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

I'm not saying the D.A. would be wasting his time (if it's my comment you're referring to). I'm just saying it's much harder to get a criminal conviction than to win in a civil suit. Not to mention that you will get nothing out of a criminal case except the satisfaction of seeing this creep behind bars, assuming the D.A. can make his case. You can hurt "El Creep-o" just as much by taking him to the cleaners, and be compensated in some way for what he did to you. The odds of your winning are greater in a civil case than the D.A. has in a criminal case.

 

And I still disagree with the other posters here about your supposed "lack" of responsibility. As far as I'm concerned, you haven't described irresponsible behavior. You weren't engaging in unsafe sex with stangers. You trusted the man with whom you were involved in a long-term and supposedly exclusive relationship. That's reasonable behavior. You have a right not to be deliberately subjected to irreparable harm by someone who knows he has an incurable and deadly disease, knows it can be transmitted by sexual acts, and who deceives a sex partner into permitting unprotected sex. You also have the right to assume that nobody would actually do such a thing! Don't, for a minute, buy into the "I am partially responsible" stuff. From what you've described, you weren't irresponsible.

[Guest Ant415]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

I don't think you should file a lawsuit. Yes, he lied about his status... if he did in fact know his status (many people don't). He is mostly to blame if there was hiv passed on, but you took big part of the decision to stop the condom use. In an ideal world, everyone would answer only in truths, but people tell many lies. Sad to say, you cannot trust someone all the time.

[VaHawk]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

Well excuse me, but HE IS DEFINITELY AS RESPONSIBLE AS HIS EX!! And he should seek some kind of counseling to get over his bitter revenge oriented aim in pursuing this matter! What planet are you living on by the way???? GOD, I would pay to be on a jury deciding this matter! Does he have written, medical evidence that his ex was infected prior to the relationship and/or that his ex deliberately and maliciously/criminally misled him? I suppose, in your view, that if he stepped into the middle of 5th avenue without looking at the traffic and the traffic signals and got flattened by a tractor trailer, that the party who splattered him should be liable?

 

If you are stupid enough to engage in risky behavior, and suffer as a consequence, the ultimate blame belongs to the guy looking back at you in the mirror! And, imo, that goes for all activties, whether cigarettre somking, drinking, drugs or unprotected sex!!!!!

 

BTW what product do you use to polish your halo? And all this holier than thou attitude from someone who tramps around in the saunas of Rio????? Perhaps ad rian, or what ever other handles he has used is 100% correct in branding you as self-congratualatory and condescending??????????????

:-(

[VaHawk]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

And if you are negative and have tested negatively the last 2 years, then what the hell was the point of your post to begin with! Just to jerk us all around??? Why don't you get over you bitterness and vengeful hatred towards your ex already???? And if you aren't infected, I don't comprehend what kind of legal case you have here either civil or criminal, but then again I'm not an attorney, IMHO, the only criminal activity in this matter is your jealous, vindictive pursuit in harming your ex! No wonder he is an ex!!!! :-(

[VaHawk]

RE: Dear Abby Wannbe Response

 

Hey, why not go one step further than Hitler and the Nazis and make it a federal law that all people go thru mandatory HIV testing every two months, and if the results are positive that they get a branding iron and burn a BIG FAT H in the middle of their forehead? And to think you have the unmitigated gall to berate ad rian!!! x(

[HotDad]

Reminds me of the old saying, "You can't get screwed unless you are in the position".

 

You, and you alone, are responsible for the actions required for you to remain safe and healthy.

 

My ex is dead now. Not because the man he left me for lied. Not because the man left left me for , who lied, fucked him without a condom. He is dead because he ALLOWED the man he left me for to fuck him with a condom.

 

Like it or not, you agreed to have unprotected sex.

 

Me thinks the name for thsi thread should be "HIV Problem is Stupidity"

[Guest Bitchboy]

Wow, lots of opinions on this one. I feel like wading in since I have a lover who is HIV+. He, of course, told me so before we ever had sex the first time, so I have no quarrel with him. In fact, I love him more today than I did three years ago.

 

As to this poster, I am a big believer in taking responsibility for your own actions. Of course, wisconguy, if he's telling the truth and for the sake of argument here I'm assuming he is, is partially to blame for his situation. (However, assuming you are telling the truth, didn't this criminal take any medications during your time together and wouldn't that have been a big clue to something amiss? - my boyfriend has a supply of pills that requires a separate medicine chest.) But who among us has not let love lead us astray on occasion? I'm not talking about having unprotected sex necessarily (a pretty stupid move on any of our parts), but when logic and emotion are not attune, some mighty stupid, and occasionally horrific, things have occurred. I've read about some dumb missteps by lots of posters here. I'd rather remain compassionate than accusatory. If for nothing else, thanks for the heads-up to remember the credo to constantly protect ourselves.

 

I would pursue the criminal prosecution if you have the stamina for it. To let it slide means you are participating in letting him continue on his destructive way. This has nothing to do with whether you are negative or positive, in my opinion. If you are fortunate, it doesn't mean the next boyfriend will be. Again, if all this is true, this is one mean motherfucker. He should be stopped legally if not by the virus itself.

 

Your "friend" sucks, but I assume you have already figured that out.

 

Be good to yourself as we should be good to one another. Okay, it's Sunday and I guess I'm in one of those spiritual moods.

[+ Lucky]

HotDad, my sympathy on your loss. You do make a good point.

 

With all the barebacking going on today, once a person gets infected they get this "why me?" attitude and we are all supposed to feel sorry for them. But we have been telling them all along about the danger of bareback sex! Originally, HIV came up silently, and many people got it before we know it existed. The situation is alot different now. So wise up party boys at barebackmybutt.com!

[VaHawk]

Am I just totally out of it in regards to this post?????? If I am then I apologize to everyone, and it wouldn't be the first time I have been an opinionated asshole! First he comes across in his original post as all innocent and asking about incubation periods and testing, etc. and then later states he has been getting tested (with negative results, no less) for the last two years!!!!! I would bet that not only was his ex not monogomous but that he himself was also not monogomous! Why else was he being tested???

 

I truly believe that he is just coming out of a very bitter breakup with this ex of his, who found his so-called "best friend" a better fit for him, and is accusing his ex of being postive, and I would be willing to bet that he himself is positive! :-(

 

Both of these guys are supposedly adults, and gay adults at that, and neither has any excuse to expect another person to be honest about his HIV status! I will reiterate that the only criminal act here is this guy's harrassment and persecution of his ex!!! For God's sake what other point does he have, as he himself admits that he is HIV negative!!!! To use the court system as a means to harrass his ex and his new boyfriend, especially considering the backup of the timely due process for just such frivolous pursuits, is in itself a criminal offense! Since when is it a CRIMINAL OFFENSE TO HIV+??????

 

I bet he always knew that his ex was positive, and is just using that as some poor excuse to lash out at him! I notice that he didn't waste any time going to the DA to pursue that route. I guess he saw all that on the internet. It is pathetic to say the least!!!!

 

BTW there was an article in yesterday's Washington Post about just such a case that was dismissed by the Virginia Supreme Court. In that instance, a treasury agent tried to sue the Arlington County sheriff's department for mental duress, etc. because he intervened when a county prisoner was being violent and gotten bitten by the prisoner, who was HIV+. This guy has consistently tested negative the last two years, which would negate the 6 month incubation period!

 

Why are you people taking this poster's word at face value without all the facts? And why should his ex be branded a criminal just because he is HIV+, especially when you have nothing to go on other than the poster's statements!!!!!!!!!!!! :-( :-( :-( :-( This is not a scenario, where the HIV+ person was intentionally and maliciously out to infect other people who were not adults and thus easily influenced!!!

 

You people sound ignorant as hell about HIV and AIDS! You spout the oft repeated, way out-date dogma of the far right Christian coalition. After all, anyone who is HIV+ is being punished by God, right for being fucking homosexuals???? AND HOW DARE ANYONE WHO IS HIV+ to be entitled to a relationship, or be able to engage in sexual activities, as the original poster's self-loathing words stated!!!! WAKE THE HELL UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!!! This is just some bitter, jealous, hurting because he got dumped by his ex person, who needs professional counseling, imo.

 

And most importantly, I will reiterate for the umpteenth time, that YOU ARE AN ADULT!!! who makes his own choices and decisions and have no right to blame others for the consequences of your freely chosen decisions!!!! :-(

[+ Lucky]

"You people sound ignorant as hell about HIV and AIDS! You spout the oft repeated, way out-date dogma of the far right Christian coalition"

 

To whom is this comment addressed?

[phage]

>Why are you people taking this poster's word at face value

>without all the facts? And why should his ex be branded a

>criminal just because he is HIV+, especially when you have

>nothing to go on other than the poster's

>statements!!!!!!!!!!!! :-( :-( :-( :-( This is not a

>scenario, where the HIV+ person was intentionally and

>maliciously out to infect other people who were not adults and

>thus easily influenced!!!

 

I’ll admit that is doesn’t really make a lot of sense, but why not just question the facts as presented. Go back to the first post. He claims that the boyfriend pressured him into unprotected sex with appeals to trust and love. Those appeals had to include a claim of being HIV negative. He says he now knows the guy was positive several years before their relationship. He doesn’t specifically state it, but how could that be determined unless the guy knew when he became positive? His intent may not have been to infect someone, but he sure showed total disregard for his boyfriend’s safety.

 

Of course we are only hearing one side. This isn’t a court of law. It’s somebody asking for advice. I often wonder if such posts are legitimate and the poster is really just looking for conversation, but what’s the big deal? If you don’t think they are legit, don’t get involved. You don’t need to rant at the people who are taking it at face value just because you’ve decided that you know the real deal. It’s also going to piss some people off when you making sweeping judgments about their knowledge.

 

Disclaimer: I only said that because you asked if you were off track on this one. I often like rants. And sweeping judgments ALWAYS make me grin.

[+ Charlie]

Certainly you feel betrayed by both your ex and your friend, perhaps rightly so, but you also sound remarkably unobservant or naive about what goes on around you. You may have sincerely convinced yourself that your only motive in going after him legally is to protect others, but it doesn't sound that simple to me or to others in this thread. You seem to be seeking a new friend in the D.A., but he or she may just be looking for a case to make some political points, regardless of whether or not it is winnable. And in either a criminal or a civil case, don't assume that you will win--a defense attorney could poke a lot of holes in your case based just on what you have said in this thread. How much worse will you feel if you lose?

 

I think you need to get some psychological counseling as well as more legal counsel, and then get involved in local AIDS education outreach, without personalizing it as a campaign against a particular individual.

[VaHawk]

Certainly not to you Lucky!! It was directed to those people who opine that someone should be prosecuted on the basis that they are HIV+ and continue to have sex. In other words, at the original poster who stated that he would never have sex again if he found out he was HIV+.