5 Arrested At Gay Sex Site (Philly)

[LovesYng]

Wild, anonymous, male sex romps took place frequently in the sixth-floor men's room at the Center City Strawbridge's store, police said.

 

Police arrested five men yesterday, and another half dozen last month, in the bathroom, which is listed as a primo sex spot on a graphic Web site catering to gay men.

 

The men's room also was featured in Philadelphia magazine last month as "one of the classiest spots in town to find love with a perfect stranger."

 

All face charges of prostitution or lewd behavior, said Lt. Charles Green. None was a Strawbridge's employees.

 

Strawbridge officials were not available to comment last night.

 

Green said Strawbridge's, on Market near 9th, reported the problem to police in early January after a father and son walked into the bathroom around Christmas and saw two men having sex.

 

According to posts on the gay Web site, the bathroom has been popular for months. As many as 11 men could be crowded into the room, they said.

 

"I've been here when the stalls were half full and three guys were standing outside the occupied stalls with their pants down (or off completely!)," one writer said.

 

Another said: "I've been there when four or five guys are all going at it at the same time."

 

The bathroom is located in the restaurant, at the far end of the long pink dining room, with white linen tablecloths, crystal chandeliers and oil paintings.

 

The restroom appeared pretty slow last night.

 

The Web site also suggests other public bathrooms for the sexually voracious, including one in the Mellon Building on Market near 8th; the bathroom near the food court at the Gallery, on Market between 7th and 11th; and the basement restroom in the Mellon Bank Building at Market Street near 18th.

 

Green said they were investigating other locations, but would not reveal where they were.

[Justice]

I saw this in today's Philadelphia Inquirer. Strawbridge's is major department store which, along with Lord and Taylor, anchors Philadelphia's downtown shopping district. The arrests took place in the men's room that is opposite the store's restaurant. It's a shame that a few perverts think that they have to right to spoil things for the rest of the people who shop there. x( x(

[taylorky]

whoa for real.............get a room.........taylorky@19:31-02/13/03

[+ Charlie]

Why do I suddenly feel like I'm back in the 1960s? I had forgot that people still do it in tearooms, and that particular one was busy even in the Eisenhower years.

[Flower]

To me this isn't so much a gay issue as a flagrant abuse of decency, respect, common courtesy and public facilities. But since it happened to gay men, they have made it a gay issue unfortunately.

 

I'd feel this way if they were str8 or gay, but resent it more as a gay man since it reflects on all gay men and plays right into str8 man's stereotypical ideas of what being gay is all about. If it were a bunch of heteros, no one would say, 'oh those str8 people are at it again--they only think with their dicks and pussys." People would just call them abusive assholes and that'd be it. Not so with the gay men crammed in the john--they have made this a gay issue now.

 

I had a black friend tell me many years ago that as long as the black man is attempting to gain equality in a white world, he needs to be BETTER than the white man--attempt to live a more exemplary life and set a better example, since his group identity and status is so obvious that any negative thing he does reflects on all black men in the minds of many or most white people.

 

He said he felt like he lived in a "fishbowl" and the entire world was just watching for him to make a mistake so they could say: "see, I told you so...."x(

 

I see gay men in the same situation, especially since we are fighting for acceptance and equality--in jobs and employment rights, living status, tax benefits, adoption rights and simply in seeking common courtesy and respect from others. These guys didn't help us any, IMHO :-(

 

Btw, I'd stay away from any public restroom listed on those web sites :+

[VaHawk]

>To me this isn't so much a gay issue

>as a flagrant abuse of decency, respect, common courtesy and

>public facilities. But since it happened to gay men, they

>have made it a gay issue unfortunately.

 

I have to agree with this point, except for the gay issue part! Really, it is one thing to have tea room sex in places where it is mostly going to be guys cruising or in outdoors areas at night after closing hours. I can not believe the number of gays/bis/straight/whatever men have been arrested in broad daylight at LBJ park here in DC. Public sex in such situations is abhorable regardless of the gender, and after all, a high traffic tourist area where families are out with children should not have to tolerate this situation.

 

>I'd feel this way if they were str8 or gay, but resent it more

>as a gay man since it reflects on all gay men and plays right

>into str8 man's stereotypical ideas of what being gay is all

>about.

 

Who CARES what stereotypical ideas str8 men have about gays??!! That's their problem, not ours. Why does this reflect badly on gay men? This sounds like something a "closet case" would say. Just as those who wish to remain in the proverbial closet should have their rights respected, so should the rights of those who are openly gay and who wish to display their affection also be respected.

 

>If it were a bunch of heteros, no one would say, 'oh

>those str8 people are at it again--they only think with their

>dicks and pussys." People would just call them abusive

>assholes and that'd be it. Not so with the gay men crammed in

>the john--they have made this a gay issue now.

 

What the hell, most of the action in these places are between so called "str8" men getting a blow job from some "cock sucking faggot" or between "bi curious" - LOL what a DUMB term! And why is it okay to have a double standard?????? When two men or for that matter two women having sex in this situation is also dismissed as abusive assholes, then I would agree. However, what happens to a man/woman versus what happens to man/man, in this situation? A minor fine for the man/woman versus public announcement in the media, criminal charges, loss of employment as a result and prison time for man/man? I don't know where you live but here in Virginia you can be sent to prison for this as sodomy laws are still on the books and used only against man/man relations. Until we get equal treatment, perhaps it should be a gay issue!!!!!!

 

>I had a black friend tell me many years ago that as long as

>the black man is attempting to gain equality in a white world,

>he needs to be BETTER than the white man--attempt to live a

>more exemplary life and set a better example, since his group

>identity and status is so obvious that any negative thing he

>does reflects on all black men in the minds of many or most

>white people.

 

Really, what a CROCK!! His name wasn't Uncle Tom was it? I guess you advocate that all gays be Uncle Brucie (as taylorky likes to put it)??? Once again, the double standard! What an individual does should reflect on that individual, not on an entire group of people! This is the same logic used to postulate that since some Arabic men have committed acts of terrorism, that all Arabic people are murdering terrorists!

>

>I see gay men in the same situation, especially since we are

>fighting for acceptance and equality--in jobs and employment

>rights, living status, tax benefits, adoption rights and

>simply in seeking common courtesy and respect from others.

>These guys didn't help us any, IMHO :-(

 

Nor did they harm us, IMHO What now, gays have to be exemplary citizens, above what is acceptable for str8s? Just so we can have the same basic Constitutional and legal rights and respect granted to others just because they were born "str8"? I'd be willing to wager that there is more than one "FAGGOT" buried at Arlington National Cemetary and more than one in the Honor Guard that patrols it! Until the time comes, when gays enjoy the same basic rights and freedom to express their feelings as others, then any tactic used to deny those rights should definitely be considered a gay issue.

 

This is in no way intended as a personal attack, just a strong difference of opinion. As LBB would surmise, my passion is once again aroused!

[Guest zoom]

Why do gay men have this need to have sex in public places? I don't feel straight people are having anywhere as much public sex as gays. I find it really disrespectful and casts a bad image of gay people everywhere.

 

All that is left to say is where was George Michael when all of this was going on. }(

[Justice]

> To me this isn't so much a gay issue

>as a flagrant abuse of decency, respect, common courtesy and

>public facilities. But since it happened to gay men, they

>have made it a gay issue unfortunately.

 

Wrong! It became a gay issue, thanks to the pervy website http://www.crusing forsex.com. Take a look at some of the comments that are posted there. They're disgusting!

 

Strawbridge's Department Store, 8th and Market Streets, Philadelphia. Cruisy toilet on second floor, men's department. Add Comments

 

New comments added November, 2002:

"This bathroom gets so crowded by guys cruising that it gets to the point of being ridiculous. Hardly much of anything happens and sometimes straight men eating at the restaurant attached to this..." Read More...

 

New comments added January, 2003:

"This place rocks. I went there yesterday and it was active with young black guys. I got fucked in a stall while another guy let me suck his cock. When they left, another guy fucked me."

 

 

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And that's not even the men's room where the arrests took place! Would you believe that someone started a thread on their message board warning people about the arrests! I only saw one post saying that having sex in a public men's room of a downtown department store was wrong! I couldn't believe it! x(

 

I first became aware of this website a couple of years ago, after guys started getting arrested for having public sex in a very nice park behind New Jersey's posh Riverside Square Mall (Bloomies, Saks, etc.). The newsmedia had a field day about the fact such a website existed. To my knowledge, there's no similar website for str8's.

[Luv2play]

Tearoom activity is not a uniquely American experience. It happens all over the world. It is only how it is perceived by society that differs. Here in America, arrests are widely publicized and people are ruined as a result. In Canada that used to be the practice but after some high profile suicides in the 1980's, newspapers no longer publish the names of the "disgraced". In England, tearoom activities have always been popular; I recall Joe Orton's hilarious description of same in "Prick Up Your Ears". It also goes on on the Continent. So what is one to make of all this? Well, boys will be boys, I guess.}(

[Bilbo]

I note the seriousness of this thread, and to some degree agree with it, but, I'm sorry, I find myself giggling. Of course straight people aren't having as much public sex in rest rooms. We don't have unisex restrooms by and large in this country.

 

Although, I could be wrong. It always seemed to me that more heteros bragged about being members of the 'mile high club' than our people. (Really! Snub, snub, snub.) And I always guessed that that happened mainly in the restroom. So, echoes of old programs about semivanished celebs - "Where are they now?!)

}(

[foxy]

Anybody remember a bar in NY called "The Toilet"? I'm going back a few years. It had a certain bizarre charm to it. There's this German film called "Taxi zum Klo" (not sure if I've spelled that right) "Taxi to the Toilet" that was pretty fascinating. What is it about T room sex? Gay men are generally so fussy about their hair cuts, designer clothes, working out, etc. and then looking for sex in departent store toilets. Maybe it's the shopping that gets them horny?

[Guest DevonSFescort]

I lived in London for about a year and a half almost straight out of high school, and there were a lot of men getting busted and/or bashed for "cottaging," which was what they called the tearoom thing over there. There was a lot of "Queer Nation" type activism (I think the group there was called OutRage or something like that) against the arrests, and some of the activists even started patrolling cruising areas (not for police but for bashers), distributing whistles in the gay pubs, etc.

 

I felt much the same way about it taylorky does -- get a room, fellas -- but had some interesting conversations which shed more light on it for me. For a friend of mine from the north of England, restrooms were pretty much THE way to meet other gay men before he moved to London. And of course when you see the Damron guide in a lot of small towns the ONLY listing are crusing areas with the AYOR (at your own risk) designation. After he arrived in the big city, of course, my friend started taking advantage of more "civilised" options, but cottaging still held a strong appeal for him and had not been banished from his sexual diet. For other guys I talked to who like to cottage it, too, was something they had done very early in the development of their sexuality.

 

This made me think that a lot of the men who have sex in toilets either a) are very closeted/straight identified or b) harbor a certain nostalgia for the closet, specifically for the danger and the thrill of the fear of being caught. If this true, than I doubt that appeals to their sense of gay identity and community are going to be very effective. Nowadays there might be some gay guys who grew up in liberal areas, came out early and have never had to deal that much with the closet, and who belatedly got into toilet sex for the appeal of the dangerous (an Xtreme sports-type thing?), and some of them, possibly, could be scolded into changing.

 

But I also give straight people, especially nowadays, though it does vary regionally, etc., credit for being a little less to prone to inflate every incident into some sweeping stereotype against gays than some of the posters here assume. As media images of gays continue to grow and diversify, and as more straights come into contact with more openly gay people, I think the "burden of representation" tends to diminish. This is not to say that I approve of toilet sex -- I think it's an inconsiderate use of services that are supposed to be available to everyone -- but it seems to me that it should be criticized on THAT basis, not because we're worried about what the straights will think.

[+ Charlie]

I do indeed remember The Toilet, which was located at 14th St and 9th Ave. It was managed by the very cute and fabulously hung Peter Pandolfsky (known to most as Peter Pan), with whom my best friend and I were lucky enough to have a hysterical threesome one night at the old St. Marks baths. I was at The Toilet the night of the fire, as guys scrambled to pull their heads and their clothes together enough to make a graceful escape. No one was seriously injured, but like most such popular places, it went downhill quickly after it lost its mystique that night.

 

I have always had a fondness for tearooms, since I came out in one--they were the only place I knew of to meet men for sex when I was 16, back in the Dark Ages. All things considered, I'm glad the world has progressed to the point where gay teenagers have more civilized places to find sexual and social outlets, but I can never enter a public men's room without a slight shiver of excitement, even though I wouldn't consider cruising there any more.

[Flower]

>But I also give straight people, especially nowadays, though

>it does vary regionally, etc., credit for being a little less

>to prone to inflate every incident into some sweeping

>stereotype against gays than some of the posters here assume.

>As media images of gays continue to grow and diversify, and as

>more straights come into contact with more openly gay people,

>I think the "burden of representation" tends to diminish.

>This is not to say that I approve of toilet sex -- I think

>it's an inconsiderate use of services that are supposed to be

>available to everyone -- but it seems to me that it should be

>criticized on THAT basis, not because we're worried about what

>the straights will think.

 

Nice and well thought out response Devon. I agree that things are getting better with str8's perception of gays, however, that is HIGHLY REGIONAL, as you mention. You have the luxury of living in the Bay area amongst the most gay friendly and accepting people in the state, if not the country. Try rural America -- things haven't changed that much believe me. Just go 80 miles east to the State Capital, Sacramento, to see how gay-Unfriendly a large city in "progressive" California can still be.

 

I never advocated not acting gay or doing gay things to please str8s, and if my above post sounded that way, then it was my poor writing. What I meant to convey, is that what was done was wrong for the location and circumstances and inconsiderate to the public using the facilities as well as the restaurant owners--there is a time and place for everything, and that was the wrong place, and thus my comment on representation. The crime here was the place, not the act. 10 heteros (men and woman) could have been caught doing the same thing and I do not thing people would have said, "Well what do you expect, they are str8's!!" They would have simply condemned the act. When gays do it, they condemn both and the fact of being gay is emphasized. To that extent, gays need to think about the common good. Sorta like traveling abroad and leaving a good impression of yourself and country. Doesn't mean you can't do what you want to do, but show some consideration when you do it But I'm NOT advocating not "being" gay or acting "gay" just to please str8's!

[Guest newawlens]

>Who CARES what stereotypical ideas str8 men have about

>gays??!! That's their problem, not ours.

 

Bullshit. Gays are a tiny minority in this country, and by ourselves we don't have the votes to get state laws on issues like adoption and marriage changed. We can only do it if plenty of straight people agree with us. Whenever the adoption issue comes up, opponents of gay adoption argue that the "gay lifestyle" is all about promiscuity, public sex and drugs, and no child should be exposed to those things. What are we supposed to say to that? When gay men make headlines like these it just feeds the stereotypes and makes it harder for the rest of us to promote positive change.

[VaHawk]

THAT'S the whole point! Why is it okay for it to be headlines with gays and not str8s??? The last time I looked, there were more than gays having sex in the tea rooms and parks, yet all you hear in the media and all anyone thinks of as a result is homosexuals. Judge the individuals not the group.

[Guest fukamarine]

>I do indeed remember The Toilet, which was located at 14th St

>and 9th Ave. .

 

Then I bet you used to go to the Mineshaft too!

 

 

fukamarine

[Guest Bitchboy]

It seems to me more than one subject is being discussed here. As to having sex in a public place, not my thing and not very wise, in my opinion. As to whether I give a shit what straight people think of me, I gave that up a long time ago. I go about my life, the only one I've got, in the most honest way I can. I vote, do my jury duty, pay my bills, love my lover, am kind to animals, try to respect my neighbors, am civic minded and participate in block parties! If they don't like me and my "kind" nothing I can do will change that. Before I came out to my family, I was petrified they were going to reject me; to my never-ending surprise, they didn't. They know I'm a good person. They are the people who count.

[Guest newawlens]

>THAT'S the whole point! Why is it okay for it to be

>headlines with gays and not str8s??? The last time I looked,

>there were more than gays having sex in the tea rooms and

>parks, yet all you hear in the media and all anyone thinks of

>as a result is homosexuals. Judge the individuals not the

>group.

 

 

Who are you talking to? If you think pleas like that will get the media to stop defining the gay community by the actions of its most extreme and irresponsible members, good luck. Nothing will change until the community produces leaders who can persuade people to change their behavior for the common good.

[+ Charlie]

But of course, mon cher! I was a charter member of The Mineshaft when it opened in the mid-1970's (I was actually invited to the pre-opening party), and I was a regular attendee until it closed in 1983.

[dick_nyc]

My problem with his whole thing is that if I as a gay have to piss and I am in a department store, why should I have to stand in line while 2 guys get it on in a restroom along with the other guys who are also standing in line to take a piss. If you want to do this public kind of thing, go ahead, but don't use up all the facilities. It is totally disrespectful to yourself, your partner, the store, the people who are in line to use the facilities legitimately and casts a very bad image on people who don't need the aggravation. To me there is nothing gigglesome about this. Two or more people have nothing better to do than inconvenience a whole bunch of other people and then bitch because they get caught doing it. More power to the police in this situation. Throw the book at the bums.

[+ Lucky]

And if I had a son and I brought him into a bathroom and this shit was going on I would not react nicely.

And as long as we're in the toilet, how about at clubs where we have to wait in huge lines because so many guys need to do their lines?Back when I was more naive, I used to wonder why so many guys needed to take a shit at a nightclub!

FREE THE TOILETS!

[Guest sebastian]

If George Michael can do it, what can be so wrong with it??

 

Just kidding!!

 

Sebastian (Premier Philly)

[Guest Bitchboy]

>Nothing will change until the community produces leaders who

>can persuade people to change their behavior for the common

>good.

>

>

And nothing of any substance will happen even then. Don't delude yourselves into thinking that acting in concert with them will ever bring about any change in the attitudes of the straight people who contend that what we do in bed is immoral and damned to hell by their god. You can wear patent leather shoes and a new Easter bonnet and sit in the front row at St. Patrick's and you're still going to hell according to those who have that mindset. Personally, I never liked patent leather anyway.