Is it an Apology if it is Forced ????

[jjkrkwood]

Most recently Rush Limbaugh made an unsavory comment about a woman because of her views on birth control. As well many young, macho celebrities and rappers have made homophobic comments (ie: chris Brown)...

 

These comment makers have gotten Bad press for their views and comments, and subsequently offered public apologies.

 

The question is: do you buy their apology ???? do you believe the apology to be sincere if the person was pressured into making it ? and does it change your view of the person when he apologizes.

 

My answer to these questions would be NO, NO and NO..... I call these "financlial apologies" and dont believe the person feels any regret, remorse or responsibility for his words. However, on the other hand, there is something to be said for honesty and I would respect (and I use the term very loosely) the person more if he owned his original words and stuck to his guns, without caving to the marketing machine....

 

Any thoughts?

[Michael Wayne]

I was trying to be nice . Is that wrong?

[Michael Wayne]

DADDY says to be nice...even to guys who don't like you. I have NO financial stake with you at all jj-none. I wish you all the best and in the future I suggest this: you ignore my posts and I will ignore yours. You say nothing negative about me and I certainly will say nothing negative about you. end of discusssion. Mikey

[jjkrkwood]

I was trying to be nice . Is that wrong?

 

Sorry Mikey, but this post had absolutley nothing to do with you. The question posed is based on the examples, and others like it that I have presented here.

 

Although you may consider yourself a public figure, you are not the figure I was referring to in this case. Sorry !

[jgoo]

These comment makers have gotten Bad press for their views and comments, and subsequently offered public apologies.

 

The question is: do you buy their apology ???? do you believe the apology to be sincere if the person was pressured into making it ? and does it change your view of the person when he apologizes.

 

I tend to not believe many apologies in such situations are sincere and they are mostly driven by financial concerns. However, if possible I do consider them case by case basis as there may be more involved than first meets the eye. For example, sometimes people try to say things in a humorous way but it doesn't get taken that way. There may be a sincerely apology based on their failed attempt at humor so I am more apt to believe them in that context. Other times it seems pretty open and shut though, especially if there is a history of saying similar things.

[maxwellissmart]

I tend to not believe many apologies in such situations are sincere and they are mostly driven by financial concerns. However, if possible I do consider them case by case basis as there may be more involved than first meets the eye. For example, sometimes people try to say things in a humorous way but it doesn't get taken that way. There may be a sincerely apology based on their failed attempt at humor so I am more apt to believe them in that context. Other times it seems pretty open and shut though, especially if there is a history of saying similar things.

 

RL may try to maintain that he was speaking in a humorous light, but I call total bullshit on that. I've never heard anything come out of his mouth that would even approach humor unless it was coated with a thick layer of vitriol. In L's case, he's bitched about the apology, he's bitched about others he feels don't apologize enough or at all, he's managed to insert sideways jabs regarding this issue and others. The only thing this man is concerned with right now is his loss of advertiser dollars, and in three weeks he'll be doing the exact same thing all over.

[jjkrkwood]

RL may try to maintain that he was speaking in a humorous light, but I call total bullshit on that. I've never heard anything come out of his mouth that would even approach humor unless it was coated with a thick layer of vitriol. In L's case, he's bitched about the apology, he's bitched about others he feels don't apologize enough or at all, he's managed to insert sideways jabs regarding this issue and others. The only thing this man is concerned with right now is his loss of advertiser dollars, and in three weeks he'll be doing the exact same thing all over.

 

OK, thats exactly my point Max. but I also feel the public is a forgetful bunch, which enables the offenders to repeat Bad behavior.

[josephga]

I don't consider people like Tracy Morgan's, chris brown and other celbs or public figures apology's too be true I agree they are financlial apologies

[+ Travis69]

I think Rush loves the spotlight more than the money. He's probably trying to think up his next publicity stunt right now. Who can he offend next????? I think the only time an apology is at all genuine is if it comes out of the person's mouth 2 seconds after they said something. Sometimes we all say things in passion and regret it seconds later. That is when the apology, in my eyes, might be real. 2 days or 2 weeks later, no!!

[tom1980]

I agree with Travis that timing of the apology is key in determining sincerity. A quick apology when you realize you've unintentionally crossed a line and offended people is often genuine. An apology after all of the bad publicity has passed (e.g., months or years later rather than a few days) is also probably genuine.

[+ deej]

Most recently Rush Limbaugh made an unsavory comment about a woman because of her views on birth control.

 

A well-worded, sincere and heartfelt apology can erase the original affront. Limbaugh did not do that.

 

He carried out a three-day attack on a private citizen for voicing her concern over health care. He continued the attack across nine hours of air time over three days. He "apoplogized" for using two words, when in fact he was wrong factually about her testimony. His call for her to produce free online porn for his entertainment went WAY beyond propriety. It was not a slip up. It was intentionally degrading to her, and it has stirred up a hornet's nest among women voters. (And, as I predicted, he now blames the entire episode on liberals.)

 

His "apology" was not accepted nor should it have been. In the same show where he loosely apologized for using two words (perhaps harlot and streetwalker would have been better than slut and prostitute?) he addressed his departed advertisers by saying "It's their loss. We'll get more." Not exactly words of contrition.

 

He COULD have sincerely apologized for unjustly attacking a private citizen and graduate student. He didn't.

 

By contrast, a conservative commentator noted during CPAC that he wished Rachel Maddow's parents had used contraception. It caused a minor kerfuffle, he apologized immediately and sincerely. He apologized on the air and in print. He called Maddow and apologized personally. Yesterday, they had a bury-the-axe lunch together. THAT is an apology that can be taken seriously, and made the attacker seem more of a man than he had been before.

 

Apologies can work. But they have to be real and clearly sincere.

[JT Brooklyn]

There's an Old Saying an Apology is Cheap..They cost you "nothing" and usually mean "nothing"!

[+ glutes]

OK, thats exactly my point Max. but I also feel the public is a forgetful bunch, which enables the offenders to repeat Bad behavior.

 

Oh boy, and they will repeat!

 

Wonder if Rabbi Hy / Hyman will ever get an apology...

[Decatur Guy]

I think most apologies are forced. Even at a young age. ...

 

"Now Decatur Boy, you go over to Miss Snaggletooth's house and apologize for throwing eggs at her house, or the second whippin' is going to hurt worse than the first. DO YOU HEAR ME YOUNG MAN?"

 

Rush didn't want a second whippin' ...

 

It's difficult to gauge the true sincerity of an apology when the remorse is from external pressure, not internal regret.

[jjkrkwood]

Oh boy, and they will repeat!

 

Wonder if Rabbi Hy / Hyman will ever get an apology...

 

Stop wondering, you know better than that.

 

Absolutely NOTHING to apologize for.

[seeker630]

Most recently Rush Limbaugh made an unsavory comment about a woman because of her views on birth control. As well many young, macho celebrities and rappers have made homophobic comments (ie: chris Brown)...

 

These comment makers have gotten Bad press for their views and comments, and subsequently offered public apologies.

 

The question is: do you buy their apology ???? do you believe the apology to be sincere if the person was pressured into making it ? and does it change your view of the person when he apologizes.

 

My answer to these questions would be NO, NO and NO..... I call these "financlial apologies" and dont believe the person feels any regret, remorse or responsibility for his words. However, on the other hand, there is something to be said for honesty and I would respect (and I use the term very loosely) the person more if he owned his original words and stuck to his guns, without caving to the marketing machine....

 

Any thoughts?

 

In this instance with Limbaugh, I agree with you - I suspect any regret he has for his remarks is solely due to possible loss of revenue.

 

However, I do think that even public figures sometimes realize that something they said was truly wrong or hurtful and sometimes the apologies are sincere.

 

Of course, we seldom know whether an apology is sincere (unless there is a pattern of repeated behavior).

[gnosvotos]

The only reason I could think Rush's apology was sincere was if he has an undiagnosed case of severe dissociative identity disorder mixed in with his already present paranoid schizophrenia, that would explain why he slammed Fluke mere moments after "apologizing." He probably mixed up a pill in his painkiller schedule, more likely.

 

...

Although I do feel that sometimes we can be quick to judge others for words taken out of context, it happens in real life, and very often with celebrities. We focus on them because it's a diversion from ignoring our own hypocritical traits. Anyhow, half pence.

[instudiocity]

Please read his 12,000 word monologue from the first hour of his show Monday morning.

 

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2012/03/05/why_i_apologized_to_sandra_fluke

[Guest]

There are many factors which go into the believability of an apology. Timing is not a major factor for me. For example, I heard a recording of a city council meeting in some town in the Midwest in which the council member said "I don't want to Jew the price down... I probably shouldn't have said that...". To me, the fact that he said it 2 seconds later just confirmed for me that he knew what he said was offensive but didn't care & said it anyways. What goes into whether I believe an apology or not is much more complex. What is the person's general character like? Is he a bit of a screwball who tends to say things without thinking (Joe Biden comes to mind)? What has the person's prior behavior been like? What is the tone and content of the apology?

In the case of RL, he clearly meant what he said. This was not a comedy show. He's a professional pundit who knew his comments would be inflammatory and hurtful. A half-hearted apology bemoaning a "poor choice of words" after sponsors have pulled out has little meaning. When Lisa Lampanelli makes racist comments during her comedy routine, I think people generally understand that she's joking, and that she's actually quite supportive of the African-American community (literally in her vagina at times). I don't know enough about Tracy Morgan to know how much credence to give to his apology for his homophobic slurs during his comedy routine. If I knew more about him, I'd probably have a stronger opinion.

[+ glutes]

"An apology has to be one of the toughest sentiments to express in written word." Benjamin Nicholas

 

"Actually, an apology isn’t a sentiment – it’s an act of contrition that comes from genuine remorse." Fin Fang Foom

 

 

 

 

If you want a good dissection of a mea culpa, continue reading here:

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/showthread.php?44354-Fin-Fang-Foom-Deconstructs-Benjamin-s-Mea-Culpa

[jimboivyo]

"An apology has to be one of the toughest sentiments to express in written word." Benjamin Nicholas

 

"Actually, an apology isn’t a sentiment – it’s an act of contrition that comes from genuine remorse." Fin Fang Foom

 

and you still bring this up years later? get some better material. you sound like a broken record.

 

you don't know benjamin, you haven't met benjamin, you couldn't afford benjamin. something tells me you're the kind of guy who has a picture of bn on your table and burns candles around it.

[+ glutes]

you don't know benjamin, you haven't met benjamin, you couldn't afford benjamin. something tells me you're the kind of guy who has a picture of bn on your table and burns candles around it.

 

"you don't know benjamin", nor do I care to. And certainly not in the biblical sense.

 

"you haven't met benjamin,", oh yes I have.

 

"you couldn't afford benjamin.", couldn't afford a fleet of Cessna Citation X's either.

 

"something tells me you're the kind of guy who has a picture of bn on your table and burns candles around it.", like Kaptain KMEM down in Hangar 17? NOT!

[gallahadesquire]

Oh, lord, here I go again:

 

At my Medical school (where I went / where I was taught / where I taught) the Chancellor / Dean was the previous Chairman of the Psychiatric Deparment, Dr. Aaron Lazare.

 

He wrote a nifty little paperback, On Apology, which I haven't read, but it's around here somewhere.

 

PUBLISHER'S WEEKLY had this to say about it:

 

"This jewel of a book reveals the many facets of the simple act of apology. Given, there are significant cultural differences in the way humans apologize. "Japanese apologies are more apt to communicate submissiveness, humility, and meekness whereas Americans are more apt to communicate sincerity," writes Lazare, a professor of psychiatry at the University of Massachusetts Medical School. Under the surface of their differing presentations, however, in spite of their length or even sometimes their complete wordlessness, all true apologies are a kind of offering intended to restore the dignity and self-respect of the offended party, according to the author. An apology can work a miracle, inspiring spontaneous generosity and forgiveness on the part of the offended, whether it is a whole people or a single individual. Drawing on a vast array of literary and real-life examples, such as Agamemnon, George Patton and Arnold Schwarzenegger, from the current pope to the machinist who approached him after a lecture, Lazare lucidly dissects the process of apology: offering an explanation; communicating remorse, shame, humility or sincerity (according to our cultural values); making a gesture of reparation or reconciliation. Among the most moving examples in the book is Lincoln's second inaugural address, in which he apologizes for American slavery : "two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil" enabling some to "wring their bread from the sweat of other men's faces." Just as breathtaking was the apology made by Kevin Gover, an assistant secretary of Indian affairs, for that agency's grave crimes against the Indian people. Lazare succeeds in showing that a true apology is among the most graceful and profound of all human exchanges. When it is sincere, it is not an end but a new beginning. "It is a behavior that requires of both parties an attitude of honesty, generosity, humility, commitment, and courage," he writes. Everybody on earth could benefit from this small but essential book. "

 

Part of apology is admitting guilt and promising to do better. It's in there somewhere. ["gesture of reparation or reconciliation"]. "I'm sorry AND I WILL TRY TO DO BETTER" is the key. I think.

[bigvalboy]

http://www.companyofmen.org/showthread.php?44354-Fin-Fang-Foom-Deconstructs-Benjamin-s-Mea-Culpa

 

Aaaahhh Fin Fang Foom, those must have been the 'Good ol days' That was a brillant read and very funny indeed...

[maxwellissmart]

and you still bring this up years later? get some better material. you sound like a broken record.

 

you don't know benjamin, you haven't met benjamin, you couldn't afford benjamin. something tells me you're the kind of guy who has a picture of bn on your table and burns candles around it.

 

"you don't know benjamin", nor do I care to. And certainly not in the biblical sense.

 

"you haven't met benjamin,", oh yes I have.

 

"you couldn't afford benjamin.", couldn't afford a fleet of Cessna Citation X's either.

 

"something tells me you're the kind of guy who has a picture of bn on your table and burns candles around it.", like Kaptain KMEM down in Hangar 17? NOT!

 

There's a recently locked thread that has to do a lot with irrational bitching and being nicer on the board. Perhaps the two of you should contact Daddy and see if he'll unlock it for you.