Staying hard while bottoming?

[Zapped]

Hi guys--

 

Short version:

 

If you bottom, do you say hard while getting fucked? If you don't, what do you like about bottoming?

 

If you're a top, approximately what percentage of bottoms stay hard (in your experience) while getting fucked?

 

I know, too, that age and ED drugs can make a difference. If you're old enough to have experienced changes with aging, how have things changed for you?

 

Long version:

 

I'm seeing a new therapist, a wonderfully gay- and sex-positive woman who has had some relationships with women but mostly with men (which is irrelevant to my question today, but for some reason I want to include it). We're discussing all sorts of things, including my relationship to my sexual fantasies, recreational sex and intimate relationships, sex life, etc., as well as other issues (anxiety, depression, apathy, etc.).

 

Last week, when I was talking about wanting a particular guy to fuck me at the baths (where I was not turned on enough to get an erection, although I'd been rock hard earlier looking at porn, without cumming), she started talking about the mechanics of why anal sex can be so physically pleasurable.

 

She was really surprised when I told her that I rarely have an erection while getting fucked. I was surprised that she was surprised, but then again she's a she. (I live out in the country and finding a currently-practicing competent gay male therapist within an hour's drive has yet to happen.)

 

I don't bottom all that often, and rarely top. When I do bottom, it's often intensely physically pleasurable, even without an erection. And in the psychodrama and emotional realms, it can be very powerful--whether it's being submissive, or being enveloped and feeling a man inside me in an affectionate way, or whatever.

 

I've seen plenty of porn where bottoms don't have an erection, and seen guys enthusiastically bottoming in real life (like the steam room at the baths) while not hard.

 

It's interesting to me that I absolutely don't remember if I used to stay hard when I was in my late teens and early 20s when I was bottoming. I do remember cumming once when I was 19 or 20 and my bf was fucking me. ("That should answer any question in your mind about whether you're really gay or not," he told me after. We laughed. Later a therapist explained that this was not necessarily the case, that cumming could be just a function of physical stimulation, but I'm sure I wouldn't have liked it SO much if I wasn't gay.) So I imagine I was hard then.

 

Then I got date raped when I was about 22 and didn't have anal sex for over 20 years (a period of time which included a long retreat into homophobia, getting married to a woman, being monogamous, etc.). So I started re-exploring anal sex in my 40s (I'm now 52). I still have some issues with it--which my therapist is helping me explore.

 

Anyway, Mr. Curious that I am, I'm interested to know about other experiences. Thanks.

 

(BTW, if there's a previous thread on this, it has evaded my search skills.)

[leigh.bess.toad]

Then I got date raped when I was about 22 and didn't have anal sex for over 20 years (a period of time which included a long retreat into homophobia, getting married to a woman, being monogamous, etc.). So I started re-exploring anal sex in my 40s (I'm now 52).

 

Hi Zapped. That part of your story sounds an awful like the experience of another forum member who has talked about his rape, and then marriage, and then coming out. I'll make sure he knows about the thread.

 

As for me, I usually have no problem whatsoever staying as stiff as a board while I'm getting fucked. And I almost always cum while being fucked. Hit my prostate and I'm there. One guy I hooked up with fairly recently (a big dicked top) was really turned on by getting me to cum while he was fucking me. I'd be curious to also see if that turns on the tops. Does it get you excited to know you've turned on your bottom so much he explodes?

 

Great question though.

[Steven_Draker]

First of all, sorry to hear about your rape, Zapped.

 

In my experience it's pretty common for the bottom not to be fully erected the whole time while being fucked. Don't think about it as a problem. You can see it happening even in porn sets. I think that the brain is just 'distracted' and focusing on a different 'spot' and pleasure.

 

Now cumming whilst getting fucked is something that needs to be experienced.

[JT Brooklyn]

Sounds like Zap is doing Research for a Book? I'm sure some do get WOOD when Bottoming and some donot get Wood! Not everyone is Talented with the "Reach Around" Procedure!

 

Congrats on finding a "Sex Therapist" outside major cities also. I'm sure she is not getting the going rate for a Therapist either as most charge what a "Working Guy" does by the Hour

[Zapped]

Sounds like Zap is doing Research for a Book? I'm sure some do get WOOD when Bottoming and some donot get Wood! Not everyone is Talented with the "Reach Around" Procedure!

 

Congrats on finding a "Sex Therapist" outside major cities also. I'm sure she is not getting the going rate for a Therapist either as most charge what a "Working Guy" does by the Hour

 

Not researching a book, but I do like to research! Thought it would be interesting to share whatever I find out with my therapist, anyway. I don't now if she's fully trained as a sex therapist, but she certainly is helpful so far. My psychiatrist, OTOH, is good at diagnosis and (probably over) prescribing meds, and is gay positive but in a conservative way. He just wants me to find someone around my own age to settle down with and is disapproving of me pursuing younger guys.

 

While I was living in NY this spring, I saw a 19-year-old on and off (which made me the envy of some of my gay friends). He was nuts for me, and I came to really care for him. And he could be a frustrating, whiny teenager. I realized that I really don't want a lover or partner that young. My psychiatrist said he was "glad that didn't work out." My new therapist was totally non-judgmental about it.

 

Back to erections, thanks for the replies so far. I can certainly enjoy sexual activity without having an erection. It's clearly frustrating for the other guy if I don't get hard, though, unless it's someone who just wants to get blown.

 

--Z

[Decatur Guy]

I usually don't stay hard when I bottom. It has nothing to do with not being into it though. For me, I think it's a physical thing. For me, part of staying hard is keeping that anal ring muscle tight, so when I loosen up to let a cock in, I tend to lose the hard.

 

I've noticed before that some guys will reach around to finger my hole while blowing me. They can barely push a finger in. That's because I'm thrusting and clinching, without even really thinking about it.

 

I usually keep a raging hard-on when I suck someone.

[GoodFella69]

Great question "Zapped." This is an issue to which we can all relate--whether we're tops, bottoms or versatile.

 

A lot of porn clips are heavily edited to show the guy on bottom when he's hard and the editor will avoid showing the bottom's penis when he's soft. This gives people the impression that they're supposed to be hard the whole time when they're bottoming. We all know that real sex isn't at all like porn clips.

 

As a top who frequently hires escorts that enjoy bottoming, I've noticed there's a lot of variability in whether the guy on bottom stays hard. Some stay hard the whole time. Some don't get hard at all. Some have alternating cycles of hard and soft while they are bottoming. Some guys can come when they're bottoming but other guys, although they really enjoy bottoming, can't come when I'm inside them. Truth is, it's not that important to me whether the guy is hard while I'm topping him--I just want to be sure he's thoroughly enjoying himself and not in any kind of pain.

 

You've answered the question as to whether bottoming is physically pleasurable to you even without an erection--that's what is really important. The only thing that's more important is to communicate to your partner that you're enjoying it, especially if you're not hard at the time.

 

Goodfella

[doitb4ugo]

I usually don't stay hard when I bottom. It has nothing to do with not being into it though. For me, I think it's a physical thing. For me, part of staying hard is keeping that anal ring muscle tight, so when I loosen up to let a cock in, I tend to lose the hard.

 

I've noticed before that some guys will reach around to finger my hole while blowing me. They can barely push a finger in. That's because I'm thrusting and clinching, without even really thinking about it.

 

I usually keep a raging hard-on when I suck someone.

 

Usually, I experience the same thing...when pushing out to make me open up for the top, I lose my erection real quickly....Several escorts have managed to keep me hard with sufficient stimulation to maintain my erection...RaulGManzo cums to mind...He was able to give me a great blowjob while fucking me.....no question that I shot during that....

 

I usually don't mind being soft...the physical and emotional pleasure of being taken is so intense for me, it makes up for the inconvenience.....

 

Here is a thread from me some time ago on somewhat the same issue as I was exploring differrent aspects of my sexuality:

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/showthread.php?73519-Silk-Purse-or-Sow-s-Ear-A-Bottoms-Dilema&highlight=sow%27s

[Toulouse]

As long as it's feeling good, and you're enjoying it, don't worry about what your dick is doing. Just enjoy the ride.

[nate_sf]

When I bottom, whether I stay hard depends on the position and the stroke. For me, long slow stokes make me hard... but I've met other guys where hard, fast strokes get them hard. I don't think there is any rhyme or reason to it, and like others have said something could feel good but for whatever physiological reason makes it hard or impossible to maintain a hard-on.

 

When I top, I haven't compiled the statistics but I'd say it's just as likely for the bottom to be hard as to not be hard, so 50/50. As GoodFella says, if a guy is not hard I'm more concerned about whether he is uncomfortable and not in any pain... if he says all is well and it's clear he is otherwise having a good time, that's the main thing.

 

Same thing with coming while bottoming, it depends on each guy and probably the particular position. I love to shoot while bottoming but can only do it in certain positions. When topping, I love to see the guy shoot while I'm fucking him, but just as often he'll ask for me to pull out and do something else to get him to come, so it's an individual thing.

 

Another thing you could try if you haven't already is getting a dildo or two to play with, either on your own or with a friend. Then you can get a sense of what turns you on and feels good and what doesn't.

[uwsman2]

When I was younger, I would more frequently stay hard when getting fucked. (When I was younger, I used to top occasionally, too, but haven't done that in a long time.) In more recent years, I find that most of the time I am not hard when I'm getting fucked, UNLESS I am getting fucked while straddling my bottom and am simultaneously stroking my own dick, in which case I can sometimes get hard and even cum. I agree with Mr. Draker - cumming while getting fucked is a dazzling experience, and the handful of times -- in more than 30 years of experiencing gay sex, it's only happened to me a handful of times -- cumming simultaneously with my sex partner is a fireworks explosion never to be forgotten.

 

There are so many reasons that getting fucked is pleasurable, with or without keeping an erection, that it's hard to know where to begin. With me, the biggest thrill of getting fucked is just surrendering control of my body to another man and letting him "have his way" with me. I just love that feeling of total surrender, being penetrated, the intimate connection of body parts conjoining, and especially the feeling of absorbing the top's power and energy as he pounds into me. (Hey, I'm getting hard while typing this without even touching my cock, both hands being otherwise occupied!) There are times when I just want to be used as a fuck-hole, ya know? It's not about being treated like dirt or anything like that, although at times I can get off on some abuse. (One of the hottest times was when a very muscular escort who was fucking me slapped me hard across the face while plunging in --- hot because it was a total surprise and really concentrated my attention.) But it's just the idea of being the total focus of a hot top's attention, experiencing his power, letting go of inhibitions.... Well, you get my drift.

[doitb4ugo]

There are so many reasons that getting fucked is pleasurable, with or without keeping an erection, that it's hard to know where to begin. With me, the biggest thrill of getting fucked is just surrendering control of my body to another man and letting him "have his way" with me. I just love that feeling of total surrender, being penetrated, the intimate connection of body parts conjoining, and especially the feeling of absorbing the top's power and energy as he pounds into me. (Hey, I'm getting hard while typing this without even touching my cock, both hands being otherwise occupied!) There are times when I just want to be used as a fuck-hole, ya know? It's not about being treated like dirt or anything like that, although at times I can get off on some abuse. (One of the hottest times was when a very muscular escort who was fucking me slapped me hard across the face while plunging in --- hot because it was a total surprise and really concentrated my attention.) But it's just the idea of being the total focus of a hot top's attention, experiencing his power, letting go of inhibitions.... Well, you get my drift.

 

Wow uwsman2, this is exactly how I feel and want to feel but i could not have said it so well.....There is so much joy in being a complete sub....

[Phil_musc]

May I add another variable to this interesting thread? I have had the experience (numerous times) of achieving an orgasm while not the least bit hard while being fucked. It isn't that the top just drove it out of me - I was probably masturbating during the fucking. Is having an orgasm while soft under these conditions unusual?

[Zapped]

May I add another variable to this interesting thread? I have had the experience (numerous times) of achieving an orgasm while not the least bit hard while being fucked. It isn't that the top just drove it out of me - I was probably masturbating during the fucking. Is having an orgasm while soft under these conditions unusual?

 

Hmm. I have had an erectionless orgasm with ejaculation a few times. But not while bottoming, which I don't do all that often. But an interesting, uh, goal for next time.

 

What a fascinating set of experiences we've had. And what a great bunch of guys to share so much.

[Zapped]

Usually, I experience the same thing...when pushing out to make me open up for the top, I lose my erection real quickly....Several escorts have managed to keep me hard with sufficient stimulation to maintain my erection...RaulGManzo cums to mind...He was able to give me a great blowjob while fucking me.....no question that I shot during that....

 

I usually don't mind being soft...the physical and emotional pleasure of being taken is so intense for me, it makes up for the inconvenience.....

 

Here is a thread from me some time ago on somewhat the same issue as I was exploring differrent aspects of my sexuality:

 

http://www.companyofmen.org/showthread.php?73519-Silk-Purse-or-Sow-s-Ear-A-Bottoms-Dilema&highlight=sow%27s

 

Thanks--we are in a very similar place with this. And that thread is just what I had been looking for. Kind of glad, though, I didn't find it at first, becasue this one has turned out to be so interesting.

[+ Italiano]

I can't imagine enjoying bottoming without being superhard. The few times it has happened it's because for some reasons I was NOT enjoying to be fucked, either for some pain/discomfort or lack of chemistry.

As much as I enjoy bottoming and hard at the same time (and at 50 I can still cum without touching myself while being fucked), as soon as I cum I can't take it anymore, I totally dislike to have a hard cock in my hole after I shoot.

[jjkrkwood]

As long as it's feeling good, and you're enjoying it, don't worry about what your dick is doing. Just enjoy the ride.

 

Thats true Toulousse, however very often the TOP wants their bottom to be "hard", sort of an indication that they themselves are doing a GOOD JOB at performing. And the bottom will often have anxiety when he cant get hard during the process..... Always such a dilemma.....

[jjkrkwood]

May I add another variable to this interesting thread? I have had the experience (numerous times) of achieving an orgasm while not the least bit hard while being fucked. It isn't that the top just drove it out of me - I was probably masturbating during the fucking. Is having an orgasm while soft under these conditions unusual?

 

In my younger years when I was bottoming to experiment on finding the sex acts I enjoyed, I would NEVER get hard, however when I would fuck myself with a dildo, I still wouldnt get hard BUT I would often Cum while soft. I guess its just a matter of hitting that G-spot ??? Anyway I established that fucking, either giving or receiving is not for me as I get NO pleasure from it, and have since defined myself as 100% Oral, which I love immensly, usually on the giving end which always make me hard and cum.... Go figure !!!

[+ Gar1eth]

Several things-- first as a top-- I prefer if the guy can get hard and cum, but if they can't, they can't. I'm not that great a top-as I've said before I'm underendowed-- not 'massively' underendowed-- I guess you'd say I'm on the cusp. (And yes size does matter in some cases--if you are so small that you keep popping out of the guy's butt) But as I was saying-- I have realized that usually it's probably not me-- some guys just can't get hard or cum while bottoming. I've really only had sex with escorts in the 8 years I've been having sex ( 9 years in October), and I'd say 3/4 of them have been able to stay hard but not near that many have been able to cum.

 

Next about counselors-- she's gay but most of her relationships have been with men? And is that something she should have revealed to you or is that her personal life crossing the line? The reason I ask-- I was going to a gay male therapist a year or so ago. He told me he had known he was gay since age 6, and he had always been happy he was gay. In addition he told me that from that young age he always thought that being gay was superior to being straight. While I concede all that is possible, knowing at the age of 6 and 'feeling' that it is better from that age on seems a bit far-fetched to me. But during one of our sessions, I mentioned I was a top and had never bottomed. He said something like ' Maybe that's your problems. It feels great.' Now maybe he was just dying to share his great expertise on the subject. But I thought his statements were totally inappropriate. While it sounded like he likes to bottom, my interpretation of his statement was that 'you are so uptight--if you'd bottom, everything would be better'. His saying that sounded a lot more like a personal rather than a professional statement. I continued to go to him for awhile after that. But at around the year mark-- I felt we weren't getting anywhere. So I found someone.

 

Gman

[jjkrkwood]

Several things-- first as a top-- I'm not that great a top-as I've said before I'm underendowed-- not 'massively' underendowed-- I guess you'd say I'm on the cusp. (And yes size does matter in some cases--if you are so small that you keep popping out of the guy's butt). Gman

 

Take Shorter strokes ................. OO======D ~~~~~~

[+ Gar1eth]

Take Shorter strokes ................. OO======D ~~~~~~

 

JW-- I appreciate the advice and the pictogram

I will try to practice what you preach. However my strokes are fairly shallow already. Sometimes because of my length issues I am barely inside as it is. So shallow strokes are the only thing I can manage. I'd find a strap on for extension-- but that would be embarrassing. I know size is not the measure of a man, unfortunately it is the measure of a man. Things would be so much easier physically if I were even 1/2 inch longer. Of course if I were 1/2 an inch longer, I'd still want more-- who in general doesn't. But in my case it would really help.

 

G

[jjkrkwood]

jw-- i appreciate the advice and the pictogram

I will try to practice what you preach. However my strokes are fairly shallow already. Sometimes because of my length issues i am barely inside as it is. So shallow strokes are the only thing i can manage. I'd find a strap on for extension-- but that would be embarrassing. I know size is not the measure of a man, unfortunately it is the measure of a man. Things would be so much easier physically if i were even 1/2 inch longer. Of course if i were 1/2 an inch longer, i'd still want more-- who in general doesn't. But in my case it would really help.

 

well gar, i totally have to respect your candid-ness, and my only advice would be to focus on your "haves" and not your "have nots".. We all wish for things we dont have, and can never have, so find the things you like about yourself, and let that guide you. True, it may not help in the "strokes" department, but it certainly can help you feel good about yourself...and the "little thing" wont be such a "big issue"..... g

 

 

 

g

[Zapped]

 

Next about counselors-- she's gay but most of her relationships have been with men? And is that something she should have revealed to you or is that her personal life crossing the line? . . .

 

Gman

 

At our first session, when I was interviewing her about her approach, training, background, etc., I asked her about where she was with LGBT issues. She thought I had asked about her sexual orientation, and told me she had been with several women but mostly men, and she thought of herself as about 70/30. She didn't self-identify as gay.

 

I have felt frustrated in the past with some therapists who seemed to talk overly much about their own issues, using anecdotes from their lives as illustrations for whatever point they were making. But it often felt more like they were processing things there with me (I'm a good listener, myself).

 

My current therapist hasn't talked about herself at all, except for comments about her style and approach, or her background (such as working with sexually abused women), when she's explained why she's doing whatever she's doing with me. Boundaries seem very clear. Except that she tends to go way over the official 45 minutes when I'm the last client of the day, which I am not complaining about.

 

It's my psychiatrist, whom I see for med checks, that I have more of an issue with. He's the one who advocates pursuing a relationship with someone I identify as a peer/equal, rather than someone much younger (i.e., the 19-year-old daddy lover I saw for a while). He also seems to think of all sub/dom stuff as unhealthy. My therapist, on the other hand, I find nonjudgmental and accepting. It's that feeling the psychiatrist (who was very helpful in other areas when I was in genuine crisis) has an agenda for my romantic/sex life that I'm not so happy with.

 

I hear what you are saying about your former therapist, Gman. Did you bring up your reaction to his statement with him? I will with my psychiatrist now that I've identified it for myself.

[Juan Vancouver]

Hey Zapped,

 

First of all I want to congratulate you for having the braveness of putting your past behind you and allowing yourself to explore with your body and re-connect with your ability to receive pleasure anally. It takes a lot of guts!

 

As for boner or no boner... I believe that because most of us have learnt what we know about sexuality through porn we have entirely unrealistic expectations about sex and this expectations hinder our capacity to enjoy the reality of sex. We have trained ourselves to believe that in order for pleasure to be present there has to be an erection and later an ejaculation. We believe that the potency, the amount and the distance covered by the ejaculation is directly proportional with the pleasure that was felt, we believe that bigger is better and we are certain that perfectly concerted flip flop with perennial hard ons are not only the rule, but an important gauge of one's ability and our partner's enjoyment. We are convinced that a session in which a lover ejaculates several times has to be much better than a session in which he doesn't. We are convinced that we can only say that we received pleasure if we are able to reach an orgasm, regardless of how much pleasure we actually felt and how difficult forcing an orgasm may feel.

 

Whenever we are engaged in sexual activity we give ourselves (and our partners) mental marks based in these unrealistic expectations, which is why it's no surprise that we are often so insecure about our abilities and so perennially disappointed in our partner's. We will always, with no exception, fall painfully short of these unattainable expectations.

 

I believe that the only possible way to achieve sexual satisfaction and achieving a healthy sexual self-esteem is to entirely ditch all these preconceptions and embrace and honour whatever is happening during your actual encounter. Your body is unique and reacts to different stimuli in different ways. It even reacts differently at different times, so saying "I always _____" is not only imprecise but dangerous.

 

Then of course, is the other side:

 

... very often the TOP wants their bottom to be "hard", sort of an indication that they themselves are doing a GOOD JOB at performing. And the bottom will often have anxiety when he cant get hard during the process..... Always such a dilemma.....

 

What I have to say about this may be somewhat unpopular but it's a solution that works as a charm for me: If your top wants you to be hard, if your lover needs you to ejaculate far to be convinced he is good, if your partner needs you to be able to _______ (whatever he may expect from you in order to calm his insecurities about his own abilities), that's entirely his problem, not yours. You should not adopt his insecurities and deem yourself unfit because you cannot physically be what he thinks he wants you to be. (He really doesn't want you to be that, he is just used to think so.) All you can do is entirely submerge yourself in the experience, honour what is happening in your body at this specific time, be appreciative, vocal and honest about it and hope that your enjoyment can be seen by him. (True enjoyment can always be seen.)

 

I believe that if you do this, perhaps you could help him understand that even if all the mental boxes are not ticked, you are having a fantastic time.

 

Be yourself, be present, be honest, be relaxed.

 

Whatever way your body may be reacting, that is the perfect way in which it should. Enjoy it, honour it, respect it, and make sure that you won't try to force it to react in a different way to please anyone's expectations... not even your own.

 

One last word: Gman, if I had you closer I would have to spank you badly. All that talk about being underendowed makes absolutely no sense. Having been lucky enough to be fucked by you I can publicly say that your allegations of lack of talent and lack of size are nothing but bullshit. You're quite the stud and you gave me an incredibly ride. You have a gorgeous dick that was a bit of a challenge to take, you fuck slowly, considerately, you are caring, you make eye contact and you were at all times aware of my reactions... that, my friend, is a ten out of ten. I don't know what you are comparing yourself to but you should stop. I am giving you a cease and desist. Now. =)

 

No, really. Cease.

 

And to all of you: You are perfect now. Your sexual ability is perfect now. Your body is perfect now. It is perfectly okay if you are curious about trying more stuff, it is perfectly okay if you want to strive for anything, as long as you remember that what you are right now is perfectly alright.

[Zapped]

Wow, Juan, What a beautiful, insightful, and enlightened post. Made my day. And reinforced my sense that it is often overlooked that many escorts are, in fact, spiritual and sexual healers.