Pda

[leigh.bess.toad]

I was hoping that I'd be able to get some feedback/opinion/advice/counsel from members of the forum about a question I'm sort of struggling with. As many of may know, I'm a newly out (9 months) guy who spent the last 34 years as a "straight" married man. Yeah, right. The coming out process has been remarkable, including a wife that is understanding. However, now a new issue has come up and I'd love some feedback.

 

Not only am I newly out. I newly boyfriended. My guy has been out most of his adult life. We both are very affectionate, holding hands, hugging, putting our heads on each others' shoulder. Obviously it's fine in private, and but there is a smidge of blowback even when we do this strictly in gay community settings. I've watched other gay couples at events in our community and there is very little PDA. It wasn't before long that there were rumors going around our community that, given the affection we show to each other in public, that we were ready to fly to NY to get married. Not hardly -- we are a long way from that. But eventually, who knows.

 

But now we are starting to go out more into "straight" society. Last week was karaoke at a purely straight (but known as a "tolerant") bar. And again we felt comfortable enough to be holding hands at the table, but we were a bit reticent to kiss after I blew the house away with my song (sorry, but a standing ovation after a song at karaoke is a bit unique, I think). But the song I have picked out for him next time will almost warrant that kiss.

 

And so I turn to the more experienced members of the forum for your input. What are your thoughts on PDA -- both when in a strictly gay community setting or out in the general, "straight" world. Again, I'm not talking anything overtly sexual at all. Simply holding hands, quick kisses, hugs. Personally, I really love seeing couples who are committed to each other showing an affectionate nature to each other. But I can also say I have never seen any other gay couples in my town commit acts of brazen PDA in the general public and very rarely when strictly within the community.

 

Does it help "the cause" the show we are just a normal loving couple? Would we simply inflame a situation? As a newly out man, am I suffering from the enthusiasm of a newbie who wants the same rights and respect I would have gotten had I done something similar with my wife?

 

Sorry for the length of the post but I would really appreciate your comments. This forum has been a great place for me to learn so much about myself. Hopefully I can learn a bit more now.

[+ purplekow]

I am not a big fan of PDA in general, gay straight or otherwise. I was in a very loving relationship with my wife and I would not hesitate to give her a hug in public but rarely felt the need to kiss, unless it was to steal a kiss in the parking lot or in a secluded corner. One time, when inebriated, we did make out in a 7-11 in Downtown Philadelphia on a Saturday night ending with us rolling around on a refrigerated stand and then in the end consummating the evening on an elevator in a parking lot. No one else was on the elevator though the 7-11 was quite crowded. I should say that my wife and I were both in our 30's when this occurred, so hardly kids. So, as my general rule, less PDA is better. I would never hesitate to whisper "I love you" in her ear in public, but that is a different level on imposition on the public viewing the display.

Ultimately you should do as you feel considering the level of emotion, the circumstances and the public which is subject to your display. For me, in the situation you descibed, a nice warm affectionate hug would have been something I would have passed off but once you began to kiss, I would have been in the "get a room" camp.

[leigh.bess.toad]

Thank you PK. Just to clarify, when I said kiss in that situation, I'm talking more of the 1-2 second quick peck on the lips variety, not a long passionate embrace.

 

One of the signs I was going to post in next weeks "sign of the times" gallery I'm planning made me think about it a bit as well, but I'll post it here now.

 

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lmdfofNPCQ1qf809po1_500.jpg

 

Again, PK, thanks for your thoughts.

[Phil_musc]

I'd never call those hunks fagots. Faggots, maybe, but fagots never. Please don't offense - actually I wouldn't use either word for those guys or anybody. I'm even troubled when I hear bassoons referred to as faggotts or cigarette butts called fags.

[+ Charlie]

After puzzling over the meaning of PDA (I assumed at first that it was a computer or medical acronym), I figured out the reference from the context. There is no right answer to your question. I'm sure that each person's reaction is basically a response to the family and culture in which he was raised, as well as one's personality. If there was little PDA in one's family or one's culture, one is probably uncomfortable seeing it, regardless of the genders, or conversely, if one is rebellious, one strongly approves of it. Someone who is frightened of his own feelings probably doesn't like to see someone else's. I think that most Americans over 70 think PDAs are slightly tacky or juvenile, but many young people approve of them, as do a lot of the boomer crowd. Someone who generally disapproves, but is politically liberal, probably feels that such displays between men are politically correct statements. So, like most things, it all depends. Just be aware of your surroundings, and be prepared for a variety of reactions.

[corndog]

Getting back to your question about PDAs... I think its a very complicated question, and every individual, gay or straight, has a different comfort level with public displays of affection.

 

I think the first thing to consider is whether the PDA in question would be appropriate for a straight couple. Although a holding hands, a hug, or a quick peck is fine, I don't want to see a straight couple making out on a bench in the mall. I believe that in today's social climate, gay people have the right to be held to the same standards as heterosexuals. Some people may be offended by two guys holding hands, but that doesn't mean that you don't have every right to do it.

 

The second thing to consider is safety. I believe that you've got every right to PDAs at a Cracker Barrel in Arkansas, but I would advise against it. It may be our right, it may even be "appropriate," but unless you've got a big stick, or can run really fast, its important to always consider the practical reality that PDAs in intolerant communities can put you in real physical danger.

[rvwnsd]

What matters is what you are comfortable with. It sounds like you have some trepidation about kissing your boyfriend in public. If that is the case, then don't do it. I think holding hands is fine, but I find it awkward whether both members of the couple are of the same sex or opposite sexes.

[Lookin]

Sounds like you've got two separate issues you're dealing with: affection vs. public display. I'd suggest untangling them and thinking about them separately.

 

First, affection, which is by definition a feeling. If the feeling moves you to express yourself in physical terms, by all means do it. A peck on the cheek when he holds the door open for you, or a full-on hug and wet kisses when he rescues a puppy from a burning building seem very appropriate expressions of how you're feeling toward him at the time. If you're around people who discourage those kinds of displays, I'd recommend hanging around a different set of folks who aren't so judgmental.

 

Second, public displays which are more about "the cause" than about spontaneous feelings. I think that moves the issue from feelings to politics and warrants a discussion with your boyfriend. There are lots of ways to advance gay rights. Some you can do as an individual, and some you can do as a couple. Ask him if he's even interested in gay rights; if he is, ask him if he's interested in working together to move them forward. Public smooching sounds like a fine way to start. He may even want to up the ante and fuck your brains out on the Staten Island ferry. http://www.maleescortreview.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

 

http://www.opentravelinfo.com/files/images/staten_island_ferry.jpg

[+ purplekow]

Public smooching sounds like a fine way to start. He may even want to up the ante and fuck your brains out on the Staten Island ferry. http://www.maleescortreview.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif

 

http://www.opentravelinfo.com/files/images/staten_island_ferry.jpg

I don't believe the Staten Island Ferry crossing is of sufficient duration to really get your brains fucked out. Unless of course you take several trips. I guess this would also depend on the fuckee the fucker and just how many brain cells you care to lose.

[uwsman2]

I find PDA embarrassing whether it involves straight or gay couples. And it is really tempting fate. You can be in the most gay-supportive environment you can imagine and come across some freaked-out fag-bashing teen with a baseball bat. So my advice has always been butch it up in public, display your affection in private.

[Diverdan]

Hi Lee,

What an interesting question you pose. I don't find PDA embarassing, but I have never been one to indulge, except in some relatively "private" public settings. I agree with some of the other posters, that there is, even in some very gay supportive environments, some risk because you never know who may take offense and decide to "teach you a lesson" when you are in a more private and vulnerable location. I also think that you need to think about your community, your work environment, etc. Do you want a picture taken of the two of you and posted on YouTube or sent to colleagues at work, etc.? I would save your displays of affection for your time in private... it is much easier there to progress from a hug to a kiss to...... what ever way you want to express your feelings!

DD

[Steven_Draker]

I'm not against any public display of affection, but as I'm rather reserved in public, I usually would give a hug or a kiss depending on who's around and if that would be interpreted as appropriate. I think that I'm always considered to those around me.

 

And as someone mentioned above PDA isn't the same if you were in a place such as Sitges/Mykonos OR Dubai for instance.

[Guest Bauer]

As a rule I would say "sublimate the ego" whenever in public, straight or gay.

 

Unless of course, you want to be part of the show.

 

Adjoining rooms in hotels, or, at the very least two beds is just being respectful to all the staff, including the third-worlders who may not all be as liberal as WE wish we all were.

[jjkrkwood]

Like PK, I never had the need for PDA, although I was partnered for 22 yrs and very much in love with the guy. I guess it boils down to your comfort level. If you and your partner feel good about it, AND its in a SAFE enviornment, then go for it. I mention enviornment because we all know that although WE may be comfortable with certain things, OTHERS may not be and the results could be catastrophic. Be aware of your surroundings. Its truly ashame in this day and age we have to worry about what others think of us, but its the reality and truth. Perahps you can display your love and affection for each other in "secret ways" when in public if you feel there is any threat to your well being if you engage in a PDA... Come up with little signs or gestures. I certainly am NOT condoning others inhibiting or intimidating us, but Saftey FIRST. It helps and proves NOTHING if we allow ourselves to become statistics.

[+ deej]

Adjoining rooms in hotels, or, at the very least two beds is just being respectful to all the staff, including the third-worlders who may not all be as liberal as WE wish we all were.

 

Two beds in a hotel room (note I resisted the urge to say two queens) is just common sense! You use one bed for all the sex stuff and still have clean, dry sheets to sleep on!

[leigh.bess.toad]

My thanks to all the thoughtful answers from everyone. It certainly has given me things to think about.

 

A few thoughts of my own. Perhaps being a newly out man, I do have a bit more fervor for "the cause", like a novitiate. Richmond is changing (as evidenced by the Federal Reserve flying the Pride flag for June) but there still are pockets and certainly the rest of the state (save Northern Va) can be backwards. We certainly have a cro-magnan man as our attorney general. Hell, I've even thought it would be fun to organize gay couples just to go to his office and have mild PDAs just to piss him off.

 

Safety is of course paramount. Fortunately, where we were for karaoke, I did have an ace up my sleeve. The bouncer at the club that night was also my good friend as well as my personal trainer. And our car was parked right across the street within his line of vision from the front window.

 

DD -- as far as having our picture taken and placed on Youtube, it wasn't Youtube. But our second or third date was at a big community birthday party for the local gay news/entertainment website. And our picture was taken at the event and displayed on their website so if anyone had gone there, we would have been "outed". My bf is out everywhere (and has been his entire life) and I've come to the poiint in my coming out process that I don't care who finds out. I am convinced it is simply a matter of time until either I am outed or out myself at work. Fortunately I work for a very supportive company (with a 95 HRC rating) who sponsors several gay events in the city, including the Gay Pride Festival in September.

 

I am a very tactile person. I love the touch of another person, especially my bf. I enjoy just being able to hold his hand or put my head on his shoulder. I realize that there are times when it isn't appropriate or safe. And I am certainly not in favor of "making out" in public. Yes, by all means, get a room. I guess what I hope is that we can act in a manner that no one would look askance at if I had done the exact same thing with my wife.

 

Again, thanks to all for your thoughtful and informative advice. I really appreciate it from all of you.

[Rick Munroe]

I believe that you've got every right to PDAs at a Cracker Barrel in Arkansas, but I would advise against it.

 

I'd advise against patronizing them at all!

[Rick Munroe]

You can be in the most gay-supportive environment you can imagine and come across some freaked-out fag-bashing teen with a baseball bat.

 

So we should all live in fear wherever we go? A crazed maniac can appear anywhere at anytime. I think it's insane to live in fear of the possible bad guys in the world. A "freaked-out" skinhead can also appear at any time. Should all black people stay inside out of fear?

 

So my advice has always been butch it up in public, display your affection in private.

 

I don't understand this statement. Are you saying that you think it's somehow effeminate or unmanly to display affection? So, when a man and woman display affection in public, are you saying that they appear like two lesbians?

[Rick Munroe]

Adjoining rooms in hotels, or, at the very least two beds is just being respectful to all the staff, including the third-worlders who may not all be as liberal as WE wish we all were.

 

I don't get this. How is it disrespectful to the staff for 2 people to share a bed?? The housekeeper is not being asked to join them and felch the loads out.

[Rick Munroe]

I can't answer this thread's question because I feel it is appropriate to blow a guy on the sidewalk.

[uwsman2]

To each his own, Rick. You seem to welcome confrontation in public, I prefer to avoid it.

[Rick Munroe]

To each his own, Rick. You seem to welcome confrontation in public, I prefer to avoid it.

 

Not at all; I neither seek out nor welcome confrontation. But I don't live my life in fear of the boogeyman who may be lurking around the corner.

[uwsman2]

And you don't drive defensively, either?

[Lookin]

In a related story . . .

 

Guard cracks down on hand-holding at Stein exhibit

 

C.W. Nevius

Tuesday, July 19, 2011

 

Jane Levikow went to the Contemporary Jewish Museum Sunday afternoon to look at art. She ended up with a refresher course in San Francisco civil rights.

 

Levikow was in the gallery with her partner when she noticed a young lesbian couple in heated conversation with a security guard.

 

"They were holding hands," Levikow said, "and he told them they couldn't hold hands in the museum."

 

The couple did not agree. A small crowd began to form and the guard attempted to shoo the couple out the door to quiet things down.

 

"And they said, 'No we are not leaving and we want to talk to somebody in authority right now,' " Levikow said. "The idea that in 2011, in San Francisco, at the Jewish Museum, this guard could be that out of touch was shocking."

 

Daryl Carr, museum spokesman, says museum officials are active in supporting the LBGT community and that they have asked that the guard, who works for a private security company, be reprimanded.

 

Levikow says she did get a smile out of everyone when it was pointed out that the feature exhibit is devoted to examining the "evolving public personae, lifestyle, and relationships," of Gertrude Stein, the famous lesbian artist.

 

"Does anyone see any irony here?" Levikow asked.

 

Bet the museum does now.

 

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/07/18/BA7N1KBVVI.DTL#ixzz1Si7gFE1B

[Rick Munroe]

And you don't drive defensively, either?

 

I don't drive.