Dishonest Delta

[+ Lucky]

Frequent Flyer programs have been a big hit with consumers, including me, and I have accumulated lots of miles over the years. For a long time it was pretty straightforward- you got the miles, you booked the ticket. But, as airlines began selling miles to credit card companies and other third parties, too many people had too many miles, so the airlines started making the miles less valuable. Advances in yield control also hurt, as the airlines no longer had so many unused seats on their flights.

 

In my opinion, Delta Airlines is trying to have it both ways. They don't want to admit that they have cut the value of their miles, so they created a three-tier program where lower mileage awards are theoretically possible, just never available.

 

When you try to book a free ticket, they show you a chart for the month listing the dates where the low, middle, or high range awards are available. This makes it easy to see that month after month there are no low mileagetickets available-period. So, effectively, Delta doubled the miles you need for a free ticket all the while pretending that they didn't.

 

But, I saw a chart yesterday that appealed to me. For 140,000 miles, you could conceivably get a ticket on Singapore Air to Asia- in First Class. Well, good for me, I thought. So, I called, and guess what? Even though the chart lists the awards as follows:

 

Southeast Asia via Singapore's Los Angeles, San Francisco, and Vancouver gateways 50,000 70,000 120,000 140,000(That's the mileage for an upgrade, a coach, a business and a first class ticket)

 

...I learned that there is another, hidden, chart, that effectively doubles those mileage requirements if you truly want to use them. So, a ticket to Asia in First Class on Singapore Airlines is really 280,000 miles. This is even more dishonest, as Delta tries to hide the fact that the awards in its published chart are fake.

 

So, I guess that I will use up my Delta miles at what I think of as double the price, and now concentrate on United and American, which, so far, actually allow tickets to be found at the lower mileage levels they have always had. Let's see, 140,000 miles on Delta, where could I go in First Class?

[RockHard]

Flying sucks!

 

In my almost 40 years of travel, flying has never been a bigger GO FUCK YOURSELF experience.

 

On some level, we have terrorists to thank for that. On another level, we have an economy that almost tailspinned into a great depression.

 

I truly get that most airlines struggle to make money, especially when oil prices behave like a roller-coaster. But I have a feeling, even if oil prices drop and the economy becomes robust, airline behavior will not change much. Once you start making tons of money by charging for checked bags, it's really difficult to erase those figures from your P&L statements.

[Guest Merlin]

Airlines also seem to be highly competitive where more than one airline flies between two cities. Where there is only one airline the price will be much higher.

[+ azdr0710]

it all started with airline deregulation in the mid-80s....I'm for dereg in most areas and dereg of the airline industry was probably the right thing for a "free-market" economy, but the result is what you see today....you get what you pay for and the prices we pay today for air travel are incredible bargains compared to years ago....

 

some of us remember the glamour days of air travel 30 and more years ago, when prices and service were high...supply and demand has stepped in and it's all just a glorified bus ride now....

[KMEM]

Understanding the airlines is a very complex subject. They are on the one hand the most competitive, cut throat industry that I know of. On the other hand, their operations are also hugely political. Foreign carriers have enormous government subsidies and help. The US airlines do have government help but by far not on the level of the "others". Therefore international fares are one subject entirely on their own, while the domestic fares are subject to our own rules. So far, never the twain shall meet.

 

Personally, I am for open and complete competition but I do not rule the world and because it does not and shall not happen, then we need to do the best we can with how things really are. That seems to mean, some government control of fares and some re-regulation of routes, etc. I hate for this to be so but it does seem the easiest and best way out at the moment.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[lookin4hotties]

Delta

 

Good 'ol Delta.

 

There are a lot of hidden little things that Delta may not

want you to know that can be impossible to find on their

website.

 

Take a few minutes sometime to read the fine print

which is also known as their Contract of Carriage.

Here it is:

 

http://www.delta.com/legal/contract_of_carriage/index.jsp

 

Gosh it's so nice that all those pdf files do not spell

out frequent flyer, award ticket, or upgrade rules.

Want to upgrade to first class? You won't find out

that the cheapest tickets (Class L, U and T fares)

are ineligible and you have to buy K-Fare or higher

for that "privilege", which is still 25,000 miles just to

upgrade on most of Delta's roundtrip domestic coach

fares. What do you get for all that plus a few extra

inches of legroom? If your flight is 900 miles or less,

you get a snack. As if a little snack cuts it for first

class, simply because the flight isn't like 15,000 miles.

 

Also, I agree with Lucky, the award chart is a joke.

Want to upgrade to Asia without using the HIGH level

of miles? I predict your ability to do that will be LOW.

 

So now you've changed your mind and have decided

to travel coach, but your bag is 1 POUND overweight?

That will be $90 extra please! Yes if you're flying

Delta on a domestic flight and your bag is 51 pounds

or more, I think it might be cheaper to just ship it home.

 

Ah, I could just go on and on.

 

Lookin4hotties

[+ bigjoey]

Once upon a time, air travel was civilized; I remember putting on a tie and jacket to fly and people were dressed in their "Sunday best". Food service was on real china and the staff was friendly. Except for Southwest, airlines treat their customers like shit (on a good day).

 

Now to fly overseas can open your eyes to what service can really be; flying with foreign carriers is often a delight. They just plain treat you better.

 

American airlines have dirty planes, bad personal, no leg room, etc.

 

I long for the days of old; travel was expensive but human.

[buckguy]

Delta

 

Delta does suck....I've noticed that anything that requires much of a connection also requires 32.5K miles rather than 25K and this has been true for several years. Not having to fly Delta has been one of the great things about leaving Atlanta. Although they could get competition from US Air (now not as bad as before, tho) and their former competitor, Northwest, I have found Delta to be the worst of the "legacy" carriers on every dimension.

 

As for Southwest, I've only had good service with them on regional flights within Texas. Elsewhere, I've encountered indifferent ticketing/departure people and forgettable flight attendants.

[OneFinger]

I'm not a real big Delta fan. But, I live in one of their hub cities and flying them is very convenient.

 

I, too, am very upset about the changes they're making to their awards program.

 

However, I've had fairly good luck in the past year redeeming my mileage. I sent my sister and her husband on a couple of very successful job hunting trips. Also was able to use my miles for friend going to a family reunion.

 

I've found that if you're very flexible with your times and able to take less desirable flights, you can usually get to your destination.

 

But, trying to get an upgrade... That's a different story. I plan to use my points as soon as possible before they're worthless.

[Guest OCBeachbody]

Thanks for showing us some of the hidden dangers of free promotions. It's also a wake up call for me to double check my points and FFM.

[adriano46]

Delta aghhhhhh

 

I recently noticed that I had nearly 200,000 miles saved up on Delta (thanks to my credit card mostly). So... I asked about cashing in some of the miles. Since their web page was SOOOOO confusing, I had to pay a fee to have one of their agents do it for me on-line. That should have told me immediately I was in trouble.

 

I noticed too what others pointe dout here - I was flying a friend on a round trip to a non-major hub in Europe... believe it or not, they charged me some 70,000 miles for a coach class ticket!!!

 

Then when I tried to fly a second person on the same flight -- noticed I was 6,000 miles short... and to buy that I would have to PAY CASH for more than a full-priced ticket! Amazing.

 

So - I want to just cash in all this crap on DELTA and avoid it forever in the future.

[+ ArVaGuy]

So, I guess that I will use up my Delta miles at what I think of as double the price, and now concentrate on United and American, which, so far, actually allow tickets to be found at the lower mileage levels they have always had. Let's see, 140,000 miles on Delta, where could I go in First Class?

 

Look out with United though. They have been changing Mileage Plus to match Continental's One Pass over the past year. Due to the merger it’s a sure bet that UA will make major changes in the redemption policy.

[+ azdr0710]

gee, I'm glad my credit card's "affinity" is with REI and not an airline...major horror stories here, it seems!...

 

I fly about twice or three times a year, go to southwest.com to do it, and problem solved...I only recently registered for their "My Southwest" program and was able to get credit for flights taken months ago...yeah, it's not first-class glamour travel, but I don't need that....staff and customers are happy and that says something about management

 

only negative I can think of is that their credit card has an annual fee...no way

[fedssocr1]

I agree United MP ain't what it used to be. They have also increased the mileage needed for an award ticket. I switched to Air Canada Aeroplan a couple of years ago. Mainly that was because I had a bunch of Amex points I needed to move somewhere and they transferred 1:1 to AC. You can also move SPG points to them 1:1 plus bonus for 20K points transferred. They have some of the lowest redemption "costs" and since they are part of Star Alliance you get access to all the partners. I booked a first class award to Bangkok for later this year for 120K miles on LH and TG via Munich on the outbound and then via Zurich on the way back on TG and UA (in their new international F class 763). As with every airline, to get the best selection you have to call them but their website shows a decent selection as well.

 

I get most of my miles via credit card spending too. I have never had much trouble redeeming miles. I typically plan way ahead and have somewhat flexible dates which really helps. I used to collect all my miles with United but once they started increasing the amount of miles needed to book anything I bailed on them.

[+ Lucky]

Delta will not award a first class ticket to Asia, it seems, for less than 280,000 miles. They wanted 135,000 miles for a coach ticket to Bangkok on Singapore Airlines. I have flown Singapore coach, it isn't that great. They save their good stuff for the folks up front.

[imrthr]

I'm not a real big Delta fan. But, I live in one of their hub cities and flying them is very convenient.

 

/ / / /

 

However, I've had fairly good luck in the past year redeeming my mileage. I sent my sister and her husband on a couple of very successful job hunting trips. Also was able to use my miles for friend going to a family reunion.

 

 

My experience has shown that when you use your Delta miles for a Delta domestic flight it is fairly simple and usually a seat is available.

 

However, if you try to get a Delta "business/first" seat on an international itinerary you will most likely encounter the situation similar to what the OP encountered. That is, theoretically it is possible to get an international flight in business/first for 100,000 miles but, in most instances, such a seat is not available.

 

I travel more than 200,000 miles each year. I use several different airlines. My experience has shown that Delta has the worst frequent flier program of any legacy carrier. I use Delta only as a last resort.

 

.

[+ ArVaGuy]

It's a shame what has happened to Delta over the years. It was founded not far from my home town in Monroe, Louisiana. For decades it was THE airline for the Deep South. I well remember my first flight, having to dress up and wear a tie at the age of 8. It was a really big deal and everyone was dressed to the nines. The flight attendants, stewardess as they were known, just doted on me and some other child on that flight. It was an awesome experience for a little kid way back then.

Now, I barely even consider them and look for other ways to get to ATL if business takes me there. What was once a great airline is no more. This is true of the entire industry. Deregulation destroyed a great system, flights may appear less expensive but I think the trade offs and unintended consequences have not been worth the price.

[Guest greatness]

Aww

 

How adorable~~

 

[color=black I well remember my first flight, having to dress up and wear a tie at the age of 8.

[adriano46]

Travel then and now

 

A few of us of "a certain age" have had the experience of travel 30 or more years ago, when it really was an adventure.

 

My first flight was on the DELTA NY-DC run which, though very short in air time, was still quite an adventure for an 8-year old flying out of the old Marine Terminal at LaGuardia, and with a crew who were dressed perfectly, and very solicitous.

 

I flew a lot in my college years (as I had no choice given the distance from home to college and grad school) and was a frequent flyer (without points in those days) on UNITED, DELTA, and AMERICAN airlines, and once was able to even experience a round-the-world trip on PAN AMERICAN Airlines (great flights, Business most of the way, but... realised that they had one menu for the entire month, so by the 3rd flights, it was all a bit strange).

 

For 20 or more years I flew over 100,000 yearly on business, to and from Europe, Asia and Africa, and enjoyed many international airlines learning who to seek out for service, and who to avoid (e.g. ALITALIA had to be one of the worst, the Asian Airlines among the best, and always faithful then to SWISSAIR and LUFTHANSA. )

 

Now??? Now it is amazingly complicated with the security rules that have us all treated like cattle -- lines and lines, wait, push forward, wait, strip down, dress quickly again... lines... and amazingly spending up to 2 hours at any airport BEFORE going anywhere.

 

Now in recent months I have faced the complications of paying so much for my first bag, so much for the second etc... Geez - I now ship toiletries ahead (and back) to save time at the inspection screening, and the trips cost a lot more than one expects (taxes are amazingly high).

 

I would give it all up - but sadly flying is a huge part of my work and so I have no choice. I am learning that in the USA - certain airlines are easier and more user friendly, but the old standbys are not. I had bad experiences on USAIR (though others say they are improving... I am not so sure), found AMERICAN OK on some flights, sloppy and messy n others, but the ground crew were polite and accomodating, so no real quibble there. I avoid UNITED and now will swear off DELTA once I finish off my points to learn how to transfer them (and get a new credit card not tied to them).

 

All in all, travel now is not at all something I enjoy or even lok forward to - just something I ust do, and it always rattles me.

[+ Charlie]

The odor of airline fuel used to be as stimulating as poppers for me. My first flight was on Delta, from Philadelphia to New Orleans via Atlanta, almost a half century ago, and I wore a suit, even though I intended to spend most of my time in NO in jeans and t-shirt. I used to look forward to flights to Europe on BOAC or Lufthansa, and flying first class to Japan or Australia on United was a vacation in itself. Now I dread flying anywhere on any airline.

[KMEM]

adrian and Charlie-

 

You SAID it, brothers.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[+ blondeq]

As stated airline travel is not what it used to be. Most business travellers pick an airline based on who can get them to their destination in the shortest amount of time. As a person that always hits the highest tier with Delta, I like their hard and soft product (not so much with the NWA planes or crew, but still better than the other legacies). Their planes have AVOD, wi-fi, and power outlets. Their crews are friendly and accommodating. All those things are important to me in order to do business. However, admittedly, their award travel is much more challenging then other airlines, particularly international. If you read the entries on flyertalk.com, you will see non-stop complaints about the program. I would speculate that the other legacies will follow Delta's lead in administering the award program because the reality is these guys can't make money. If oil goes up by $3 a barrell, they suddenly go from profitability to bankruptcy. Not sure what the overall fix for air travel is but as long as the airlines have to depend on selling miles (credit cards, hotels ect), you can count on devaluation to continue across all carriers. Further, Delta has been in front of the other carriers in right-sizing their capacity; that means that there will be fewer seats available for award travel. When United and Continental complete their merger, watch the relatively free United awards begin to shrink, dramatically as the new United tries to meet the needs of paying customers and forgetting who racked up miles in the past.

[trilingual]

In defense of American, they have largely kept their mileage requirements the same for some time. They did change their international upgrade requirements, adding an expensive co-pay to the mileage charge, which has kept me from upgrading coach tickets to Brazil to business class, which I was able to do for a long time with little difficulty. Trying to get flight dates using miles on their website is often difficult, but I've had good luck with their live reservations agents -- they've made the extra effort to be creative to find seats on or around the times I want to fly, and I've usually been able to get to where I wanted in Brazil when I wanted. In July I'll be going to Fortaleza (way up in northern Brazil near the equator, with warm sunny weather year-round) with a Brazilian travel companion. Now that American has an agreement with GOL you can use and earn American miles on GOL, and we were able to get GOL seats for dates at a time when domestic travel is busy in Brazil -- July is the winter school holiday there and lots of people travel. So all in all, the American mileage program has been worthwhile, even with the effective elimination of upgrades on international flights.

[MsGuy]

The folks on this board aren't the only ones fed up with Delta.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704247904575240401159208996.html?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_LeadStoryNA

 

The only thing that more profitable than selling FF miles to credit card companies, et al, is refusing to redeem them after they're sold.

[+ ArVaGuy]

Great article MsGuy. The airlines hate these programs because of the expense and liability they create on the P&L statements. On the other hand the need the ancillary revenue from selling miles in bulk to the credit card companies. However, they created these monsters - it seems in their own image at times.

 

When it comes down to it, an airline affinity program may have only one value for frequent flyers. That is the "privilege" of boarding first before the masses get on and take up all the overhead space. Then they throw in the "perk" of "free" baggage check as a sweetener.

 

With some like United and Continental supposedly improving their elite programs with automatic upgrade listings the process becomes even more of a joke. I used to be able on UA to request and upgrade and had a better than 60% chance of getting it. Now with the system of auto listing ALL elites on a flight the chance is near zero. The airline is touting this as an extra benefit to elites knowing full well that it significantly reduces the chances of 98% of pax getting an upgrade. The end result has been a lot of angry elites but the airline could care less, it's saving them money cutting admin costs and decreasing the elite payouts.

 

It's actually better these days to be affiliated with a hotel program or some other like sporting goods. Consumer Reports rates Cabela's Sporting Goods as the best award program in existence. A friend has their card and she raves about the pay backs and rewards.

 

 

 

 

 

The folks on this board aren't the only ones fed up with Delta.

 

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704247904575240401159208996.html?mod=WSJ_LifeStyle_LeadStoryNA

 

The only thing that more profitable than selling FF miles to credit card companies, et al, is refusing to redeem them after they're sold.