Canadians--carry your documents in Arizona!

[Guest]

Arizona has a new law requiring foreigners be able to prove their legal status while in that state. Gov. Jan Brewer ignored criticism from President Barack Obama on Friday and signed into law a bill supporters said would take handcuffs off police in dealing with illegal immigration in Arizona, the nation's busiest gateway for human and drug smuggling from Mexico.

With hundreds of protesters outside the state Capitol shouting that the bill would lead to civil rights abuses, Brewer said critics were "overreacting" and that she wouldn't tolerate racial profiling. The bill will take effect in late July or early August, and Brewer ordered the state's law enforcement licensing agency to develop a training course on how to implement it without violating civil rights.

"We must enforce the law evenly, and without regard to skin color or social status," she said. "We must prove the alarmists and the cynics wrong. This is not an issue of race. For example, I will instruct our law enforcement officials to request proof of legal status on any person who ends a sentence with 'Eh?' or who can't pronounce the 'ou' diphthong."

[Mark Gordon]

What's all that about, eh?

 

I suspect a substantial proportion of Arizona's tourism revenue is generated my Canadians who will not be too pleased at the prospect of having to carry their passports and flight details around with them for fear of arrest and deportation.

[zeferrelli]

don't you have to produce them in every country if asked?

[LurkerSpeaks]

a word from an Arizonan

 

First of all, let me personally state that I am opposed to this law and to our Governor..

The law was not intended for Canadians, but instead to deal with the large latino population. We already have Sheriff Joe who daily does his racial stereotyping, and now our police have the authority to harrass anyone because of their skin color... The mayor of Phoenix is threatening to sue the state over this law, claiming it to be illegal.. A state senator from Arizona has called for a boycott of our own state.. We have already had our first group of convention business cancel their planned Scottsdale conference because of this new law..

[+ azdr0710]

from another Arizonan

 

it's possible this law will not go into effect quite so quickly because of probable court challenges.....

 

our Republican governor (Brewer) is facing a tough primary challenge, as many feel she's too moderate...some say she signed the bill to look tougher.....seems a wild way to look tough, but maybe.....

 

a respected rancher was murdered by an illegal crosser last month after the rancher apparently called the Border Patrol on a group on his ranch....this may have been the event that tipped the scales.....

 

many here feel the federal government is not doing their job to protect the border, so the state govt is having to fill the void, some say.....

 

it's a complicated issue....very divisive....I wish the law had not passed....Canadians have nothing to worry aboot (about)!!

[instudiocity]

Wow?!? Who ever travels internationally without carrying on their person a valid passport?

 

And who travels nationally without carrying a valid gov't issued ID or driver's license?

 

Next people will protest an age old law, the one that says you must identify yourself to any sworn peace officer when asked or be detained until the PO can verify your info.

 

GEEZ!

[Samai139]

I agree with StudioCity and others who posted. Having lived in several countries where I was a "registered alien" I was asked to display/hand over my Registration Documents whenever asked---entering the country, leaving the country, going into areas where diamonds were produced, at the bank when I made deposits, etc. I never felt discriminated against or felt I was being "profiled,"

But, if the new Arizona law is used to have wholescale round-ups of those who are under suspicion,, or police use the law to randomly stop anyone who they might not like the "looks of" I have a problem with that.

Don't know the answer to the issue of immigration, but hope the Federal Government---not just the Democrats, or Republicans---come up with something to help. Hopefully that will not include a "wall" to keep people out and a quota for various countries. Mexico and the USA have to work together and come up with procedures that both will trust and enforce. The issue will only get worse once Mexico's oil supply becomes less and and less and the economic situation for millions gets worse. I predict this (immigration) will be THE political hot potato in the near future, if it isn't already.

Now that I've read my reply---perhaps it belongs in another thread---sounds a little too political for this one---sorry administrators.

[KMEM]

It bothers me greatly to think about US citizens while walking down a street to be asked to produce "papers". That smacks of my idea of Russia and some other countries where "freedom" does not exist as we think of it here in the USA.

 

However, if one compares this law to the seat belt law, just for instance, where even though they might have the right to do so, the police do NOT just pull motorists over if they happen to see them without seat belts fastened. In other words, if you do something to "attract" the attention of the police like speed, weave, run a stop sign, run a red light, etc. and they pull you over for that AND find you are not properly buckled up, then you might get a ticket for multiple violations. IF this can be applied without unduly annoying citizens and legal visitors, then I am all for it.

 

I basically have no problem with profiling in the sense that if you are acting like a criminal then I will use a profile to stop you and possibly arrest you. But, to reiterate, I do have a problem with citizens and legal visitors being stopped for "no" reason.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[Guest ChgoBoy]

 

I basically have no problem with profiling in the sense that if you are acting like a criminal then I will use a profile to stop you and possibly arrest you.

 

But if you're acting like a criminal, then you're probably already in the act of obvious unlawful behavior, which would require no profiling to detain or question you to begin with.

 

Most legal residents, or visitors, won't be - hence the issue.

[Guest PWIT]

and now our police have the authority to harrass anyone because of their skin color...

 

It was my understanding that the law required reasonable suspicion and specifically forbid solely singling anyone out based on ethnicity or skin color.

 

Does Arizona post copies of the law on a website? I've not had luck with the search engines in finding a link.

[KMEM]

But if you're acting like a criminal, then you're probably already in the act of obvious unlawful behavior, which would require no profiling to detain or question you to begin with.

 

Most legal residents, or visitors, won't be - hence the issue.

 

Hence, what issue? I don't understand your reply/post. If one is lurking around the back door of a business that is closed at 3 AM, could an officer of the law assume reasonable suspicion? Would that be illegal profiling? Would that not be profiling an "unnatural" act or situation? Would he or she be OK asking why are you here at this particular spot and at this hour? Would it make any difference what the skin color might be? If the person so lurking was drunk or had obviously been drinking, would that be grounds for further investigation? If that person was asked to show ID, would that be improper "profiling"?

 

There are a lot of questions and probably lots of answers. How many of them will be correct or politically correct, I have no idea but very likely both could happen.

 

Best regards,

KMEM

[instudiocity]

I think I object to the fear mongering in the title of this thread. Canadians? Just Canadians?

 

ALL NON-CITIZENS! CARRY YOU IDENTITY DOCUMENTS JUST LIKE YOU DO IN THE REST OF THE WORLD.

[Mark Gordon]

ID

 

Wow?!? Who ever travels internationally without carrying on their person a valid passport? And who travels nationally without carrying a valid gov't issued ID or driver's license?

 

I think I object to the fear mongering in the title of this thread. Canadians? Just Canadians?

 

ALL NON-CITIZENS! CARRY YOU IDENTITY DOCUMENTS JYST LIKE YOU DO I. THE REST OF THE WORLD.

 

As a non-driver, the only government issued photo ID I possess is my Health Card and my passport. When travelling nationally, I never carry either, unless I have some specific purpose for them.

 

When travelling internationally, once past immigration, I only carry my passport if I am in a situation where I may need it, such as checking into a hotel or changing money. Losing or damaging your passport is a major hassle when you're abroad, so I consider it unwise to carry it around all the time. Why should I have to take it on a day out to the Grand Canyon? I'd prefer to leave it locked in my suitcase.

 

As for the title of the thread, it was Gov. Brewer's 'amusing' comment which singled out Canadians and inspired the thread.

[Guest socal30]

My first post and of all topics -this one!! Well I have been lurking around for a while.

 

I don't like this, because as a citizen I don't think it is right that I can be stopped and asked to prove that I am one in my own country. Do we have a problem with illegal immigration-yes. I live in s cal. But this is not the way. I only carry my driver's license and honestly don't wan't to be pulled over by the police and asked to prove that I am a citizen. There has to be other ways, like going after employers or some such. But this is bad.

 

The law already states that immigrants/aliens have to carry proof with them at all times. If you ever travelled in the border areas with check points anyone would know that. But now any police officer can pull me over for reasonable suspicion and ask me for proof or throw me in jail if I don't have it? What is reasonable suspicion-one congressman seems to think it is the shoes and clothes you wear?

[+ deej]

It's only a matter of time before some diplomat from the Bahamas, Jamaica, or Greece gets jailed. They're brown and they talk funny, which seems to be the primary selection criteria. It'll be an international incident and people who backed this law will rapidly back-peddle.

 

It's a very sad situation.

[+ ArVaGuy]

It's only a matter of time before some diplomat from the Bahamas, Jamaica, or Greece gets jailed. They're brown and they talk funny, which seems to be the primary selection criteria. It'll be an international incident and people who backed this law will rapidly back-peddle.

 

It's a very sad situation.

 

Diplomats are very quick to pull the immunity card whether it is for a minor traffic violation or more serious issues. No doubt in such an instance anyone covered under the protocols would utilize it to its full advantage. They can then make hay out of it with the State Department or in-country propaganda purposes.

[BewareofNick]

Canadians have nothing to worry about, unless they have brown skin and speak Spanish. This law is nothing more than to give cover for the racial profiling that is already being engaged in as noted above, by such people as Sheriff Joe.

 

Here's the law: http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb1070s.pdf

 

Here's the relevant passage:

 

FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY

21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS

22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS

23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,

24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE

25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373©.

 

It's deliberately vague and gives cover to racial profiling. All an officer has to say is "they wuz actin suspcious, you know, like they wuz illegal or somethin" and they're covered.

 

This law is entirely unamerican and definitely unconstitutional.

[Luv2play]

Canadians have nothing to worry about, unless they have brown skin and speak Spanish.

 

LOL. I remember travelling from Japan to Los Angeles on an Air Nippon flight years ago and when landing at LAX, an official waved to me as I approached immigration and called for me to enter through the entry gate for Americans. I was the only caucasion in a few hundred Japanese travellers. I yelled out to him that I was an alien too! The look on his face was priceless.

[instudiocity]

As a non-driver, the only government issued photo ID I possess is my Health Card and my passport. When travelling nationally, I never carry either, unless I have some specific purpose for them.

 

When travelling internationally, once past immigration, I only carry my passport if I am in a situation where I may need it, such as checking into a hotel or changing money. Losing or damaging your passport is a major hassle when you're abroad, so I consider it unwise to carry it around all the time. Why should I have to take it on a day out to the Grand Canyon? I'd prefer to leave it locked in my suitcase.

 

As for the title of the thread, it was Gov. Brewer's 'amusing' comment which singled out Canadians and inspired the thread.

 

Well, we in the US get from English Common law the requirement that you must tell a police officer who you are and subject to being detained if the officer cannot verify the information. I've witnessed police officers asking Name, Date of Birth and Social Security Number from many individuals that don't have an ID on their person.

[Guest PWIT]

But if you're acting like a criminal, then you're probably already in the act of obvious unlawful behavior, which would require no profiling to detain or question you to begin with.

 

Most legal residents, or visitors, won't be - hence the issue.

 

Will it be an issue? The law states "Only when making lawful contact", meaning there has to be some other lawful reason to engage the person before they could be asked to validate residency.

 

Arizona SB1070 on Wikipedia

[+ azdr0710]

don't know how aggressive law enforcement will be in enforcing the new law, but I do know (cops have told me this) that cops will easily find something wrong on your vehicle to pull you over for if they suspect something more is wrong......

 

frankly, I hope the growing national boycotts against my home state become big, despite many "innocents" being hurt.....would like to see the "holier than thou"s squirm and twist a bit......

[+ Charlie]

I have lived as a resident alien in both western and eastern Europe, and was always technically required to carry my national ID and residence permits with me at all times, yet I don't remember that I was ever stopped and asked for them. However, an American professional colleague of mine who was living in the UK at the same time as I, and who happened to be black, was asked several times to show his papers. No matter what platitudes the politicians express about the police asking for ID only when they have good cause for suspicion, racial profiling is bound to influence their actual behavior.

[instudiocity]

Ha-HA!

 

http://comics.com/bill_day/2010-04-30/