Will it ever fly?

[Max]

The more information that comes out about your namesake Max, the worse it gets for Boeing. The lawsuits are gonna be epic.

 

Weeks after the first fatal crash of the 737 Max, pilots from American Airlines pressed Boeing executives to work urgently on a fix. In a closed-door meeting, they even argued that Boeing should push authorities to take an emergency measure that would likely result in the grounding of the Max.

 

The Boeing executives resisted. They didn’t want to rush out a fix, and said they expected pilots to be able to handle problems.

 

~NYTimes 14MAY2019~

 

They didn’t want to rush out a fix, and said they expected pilots to be able to handle problems

 

They (appropriately) expected pilots to follow the same procedure in this airplane that every pilot of every airplane follows with a runaway trim; you turn that shit off. Simple as that.

 

The more information that comes out about your namesake Max, the worse it gets for Boeing. The lawsuits are gonna be epic.

 

I doubled up on Monday at $340.

 

Now's your chance to short BA and prove me wrong.

 

Please.

[+ glutes]

Boeing says 737 Max update is being held up by FAA questions.

Real tough ones, too, like "how do we know it really works this time?"

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/16/737-max-boeing-software-fix-done/3697037002/

[Max]

Boeing says 737 Max update is being held up by FAA questions.

Real tough ones, too, like "how do we know it really works this time?"

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/16/737-max-boeing-software-fix-done/3697037002/

 

Now's your chance to short BA.

 

Please.

[+ glutes]

“Every day, there is new news about something not being disclosed or something was done in error or was not complete,” said Dennis Tajer, a spokesman for the American Airlines pilots union and a 737 pilot.

 

Now news has broken that the simulators for the 737 MAX are 'flawed'.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/business/boeing-737-max-simulators.html

[Max]

“Every day, there is new news about something not being disclosed or something was done in error or was not complete,” said Dennis Tajer, a spokesman for the American Airlines pilots union and a 737 pilot.

 

Now news has broken that the simulators for the 737 MAX are 'flawed'.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/17/business/boeing-737-max-simulators.html

 

Now's your chance to short BA.

 

Please.

[+ azdr0710]

"Good afternoon, folks......This is your captain from the cockpit......Got a bit of minor turbulence here.....We're gonna leave the seat belt sign on for just a few more minutes......Flight attendants: please remain seated"

 

[+ glutes]

OK, other than Max, who's up for the beta testing??

 

A new study by Atmosphere Research Group found only about 1 in 5 people surveyed would definitely fly on a Max in the first six months of its return to service. Roughly half said they'd be unlikely to get on board.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-737-max-as-faa-weighs-whether-jet-is-ready-to-fly-again-americans-may-not-be/

[MikeBiDude]

I found this interesting, about how to store all the grounded planes

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-boeing-737-max-park-in-desert-20190524-story.html

[Max]

OK, other than Max, who's up for the beta testing??

 

A new study by Atmosphere Research Group found only about 1 in 5 people surveyed would definitely fly on a Max in the first six months of its return to service. Roughly half said they'd be unlikely to get on board.

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/boeing-737-max-as-faa-weighs-whether-jet-is-ready-to-fly-again-americans-may-not-be/

 

I doubt 1 in 5 people know they’re on a 737, let alone which model.

[+ glutes]

I doubt 1 in 5 people know they’re on a 737, let alone which model.

 

After 6 months, they couldn't care one iota.

 

Americans, in particular, have a very short term memory.

 

Now if there is another incident with the MAX...

Edited May 31, 2019 by Oaktown

[mike carey]

I doubt 1 in 5 people know they’re on a 737, let alone which model.

Indeed, some do, most don't. I flew on American from LAX to DCA in January and saw from the card (or maybe the safety announcement) that it was on a 737 Max but I didn't join the dots to Lion Air. I did remember, and join the dots, after the second crash. (My other flights on that trip were an A380, B787s and Bombardier Dash-8s.)

[+ glutes]

How will you feel about flying the Boeing 737 MAX jet if/when it is recertified by the FAA and returns to service?

 

I'll be fine flying it

23%

 

I'll be nervous, but will fly it anyway

8%

 

I'll avoid it

54%

 

I'm going to wait and see

15%

 

Votes: 2370

 

https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/Boeing-CEO-interview-13906974.php

[+ glutes]

NYTimes has a very thorough article on the MAX. Boeing created a inherently unstable aircraft, and tried to remedy it with a software fix. They also misled both the FAA and airline pilots about the aircraft.

Read this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/01/business/boeing-737-max-crash.html

[MikeBiDude]

Software be damned....here’s a new hardware problem for Boeing to contend with.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/06/02/business/boeing-faa-737-slat-track-assemblies/index.html

[+ quoththeraven]

I doubt 1 in 5 people know they’re on a 737, let alone which model.

You do realize you come across not only as a defender of Boeing but as someone who doesn't give a damn about the lives lost to Boeing's negligence and incompetence and is more interested in making money on Boeing stock?

 

The fact that Boeing is part of an oligopoly and its stock price will eventually rebound is part of the problem here.

[+ tassojunior]

Now news has broken that the simulators for the 737 MAX are 'flawed'.

 

sort of follows if the real ones are..

[+ glutes]

Drip, drip, drip.

 

New York (CNN Business)Boeing on Sunday said some of its 737 planes, including many 737 Max aircraft, may have faulty parts on their wings. It's the latest problem Boeing faces as it tries to get its most important and popular airplane, the grounded 737 Max, back in the air.

Working with the Federal Aviation Administration, Boeing said it has reached out to airlines that fly 737 planes, advising them to inspect their slat track assemblies on Max and NG aircraft. The 737 NG series includes the 737-600, -700, -800 and -900 planes.

Leading edge slats are an aerodynamic control surface that extend from the front of the wing. Some the tracks may not meet manufacturing standards and may need to be replaced, Boeing and the FAA said. They said if the parts are found to be defective, airlines should replace them before returning the planes to service.

[+ glutes]

Boeing Co. has been working on a fix that has been delayed several times. Mr. Juniac last week said airlines expect the fleet to remain idled at least 10 to 12 more weeks and he urged regulators to act in concert to return the plane to the air. Tim Clark, president of Emirates Airline, said he expects the MAX may still not be flying world-wide in late December.

[Max]

You do realize you come across not only as a defender of Boeing but as someone who doesn't give a damn about the lives lost to Boeing's negligence and incompetence and is more interested in making money on Boeing stock?

 

The fact that Boeing is part of an oligopoly and its stock price will eventually rebound is part of the problem here.

 

I'm not defending anyone. Being wrong (with the benefit of hindsight) does not define negligence. In my opinion, Boeing was neither careless, malicious, nor negligent. And I'm just putting my money where my mouth is.

 

Similarly, I do not think that the pilots - who failed to follow the procedure all pilots learn in dealing with runaway trim - were careless or malicious. The fact remains however, that they did not follow the proscribed procedure.

 

Boeing and Airbus share a near domination of the commercial airliner market in duopoly. The former in partnership with Embraer and the latter having purchased the C series program from Bombardier and thereby eliminating their closest competitors.

 

As far as lives lost, preventable death is a tragedy whatever the cause. You will not find a single post I've made wherein I suggest otherwise.

Edited June 4, 2019 by Max

[+ glutes]

I'll be alone each and every night

While you're away don't forget to write

See you in September

See you when the summer's through

Here we are saying goodbye at the station

Summer vacation is taking you away

Counting the days 'til I'll be with you

Counting the hours and the minutes, too.... Max!

 

~The Tempos~

 

June 9 (Reuters) - American Airlines Group Inc said Sunday it is extending cancellations of about 115 daily flights into September due to the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX.

 

The largest U.S. airline had previously said it was canceling flights Aug. 19 after the Boeing Co plane was grounded worldwide in March following two deadly crashes in Indonesia and Ethiopia.

 

American Airlines said Sunday it is extending those cancellations through Sept. 3. Boeing has yet to complete a certification test flight and formally submit its software upgrade and training changes to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) for approval.

[+ glutes]

'Sully' Sullenberger says he struggled to recover Boeing 737 MAX in flight simulation

 

Washington (CNN)The pilot who orchestrated the dramatic plane landing in the Hudson River 10 years ago told a congressional panel Wednesday that he can "see how crews could have run out of time" during the recent Boeing 737 MAX crashes after he struggled to recover the plane in a simulator running recreations of the doomed flights.

"I recently experienced all these warnings in a 737 MAX flight simulator during recreations of the accident flights. Even knowing what was going to happen, I could see how crews could have run out of time before they could have solved the problems. Prior to these accidents, I think it is unlikely that any US airline pilots were confronted with this scenario in simulator training," Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger told the House Transportation Committee during a hearing on the embattled plane model.

[Max]

Willie Walsh bet around $15B this week that the plane will return safely to the skies, and that IAG can make money flying them.

[+ glutes]

If I was running an airline, I'd listen to Sully before betting large.

 

That said, I hope Willie Walsh's bet goes well.

 

And this breaker from the WallStJournal:

 

Boeing’s Latest 737 MAX Concern: Pilots’ Physical Strength

Turning manual crank during emergency procedure may be too difficult for some people

 

By

Andy Pasztor and

Andrew Tangel

Updated June 19, 2019 6:17 pm ET

 

LE BOURGET, France—Efforts to get Boeing Co.’s BA -1.44% 737 MAX jetliners back in the air have been delayed in part by concerns about whether the average pilot has enough physical strength to turn a mechanical crank in extreme emergencies.

The concerns have made the crank—which moves a horizontal panel on the plane’s tail—the focus of engineering analysis, simulator sessions and flight testing by the plane maker and U.S. air-safety officials, according to people familiar with the details. The extent of the internal debate hasn’t been previously reported.

Use of the crank is intended as the final step in an emergency checklist to counteract dangerous movements of the tail’s horizontal stabilizer, such as those involved in two fatal crashes of MAX aircraft when an automated flight-control system malfunctioned.

Edited June 19, 2019 by Oaktown

[Max]

[QUOTE="Oaktown, post: 1737501, member: 11551"]If I was running an airline, I'd listen to Sully before betting large.

 

I think it’s a safe bet that WW considered all the available information before betting that much $.

 

Boeing’s Latest 737 MAX Concern: Pilots’ Physical Strength

 

Not unique to the 737 MAX; same as on the NG, which have excellent safety record. The issue is MCAS and pilot response to it.

[mike carey]

The Economist offers an opinion piece on Boeing management. Qantas has just announced that the group has converted existing A321 neo orders to A321XLRs and added 10 for a total of 36 in a total order of 109 A321s. Delivery is still some years out. As far as I'm aware they have no B737MAX orders

 

Schumpeter

Boeing’s boss wins a reprieve, not redemption

Three tests to decide whether Dennis Muilenburg should keep his job

 

Print edition | Business

Jun 22nd 2019

 

FEAR OF FLYING is a strange thing. In the early days of flight, those who wanted to be airborne were considered crazy. These days, those who don’t are seen as odd. Even habitual flyers engage in reassurance rituals: from prayers and hand-holding to pills and alcohol. That people get on aeroplanes at all is a matter of trust. They believe they are well made, that pilots are well trained and the industry well regulated. In its 103-year history, Boeing, the world’s largest aircraft manufacturer, has sought to build that trust with a safety-first culture. This has been thrown into disarray since two of its 737 MAX passenger jets crashed in Indonesia in October and Ethiopia in March, killing all 346 passengers and crew on board.

 

Dennis Muilenburg, Boeing’s boss, is a Bible-reading company lifer who looks the part, from the cut of his jaw to the azure of his eyes. Yet to many his metronomic, defensive response to the disasters has compounded the mistrust in Boeing. On June 18th, just as questions about his future were percolating at the Paris Air Show, he won a reprieve. IAG, the parent company of British Airways and Iberia, said it would buy 200 new 737 MAX aircraft, the first order for the jet since it was grounded over three months ago. Although IAG will receive big discounts and the planes will only be delivered between 2023 and 2027, it was a vote of confidence in the MAX’s rejigged safety system.

 

The big challenge for Mr Muilenburg is to convince the flying public at large to renew their faith in Boeing. His job hangs on it.

 

Boeing’s top brass has belatedly used the Paris show to offer full apologies for the crashes. The crisis, as well as being devastating for the families of those killed, has hit morale among the planemakers’ employees. But amid civil lawsuits on victims’ behalf, and potential criminal investigations by the Department of Justice and the FBI, Boeing’s army of lawyers still appear to vet every word that emerges from Mr Muilenburg’s mouth. That has made a bad situation worse—not least because many countries where Boeing operates do not appreciate its buttoned-down, legalistic approach to crisis management. His relentless efforts to portray the disasters as just a blip in Boeing’s sterling safety record suggest a man eager to get back to business as usual. In civil aerospace Boeing is a business-to-business company. Its customers are airlines and leasing firms, not passengers. It shows.

 

The troubles Mr Muilenburg still faces are threefold. The first comes from downplaying the 737 MAX’s problems, which carries legal risks. Shortly after the crash in Indonesia, Boeing hinted at maintenance and pilot problems at Lion Air, even though it soon discovered that its engineers had known 13 months before about a flaw in a cockpit warning system. The issue had not been reported to Boeing’s senior executives, regulators or customers. The company has insisted that its anti-stall software, known as MCAS, did not compromise safety, even after investigators found that it overwhelmed pilots in both disasters, and has since been fixed. The firm has set up a committee to review the certification process of the MAX, even though it and the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) maintain that the MCAS was designed in an orthodox way. Mr Muilenburg has admitted that self-certification, in which Boeing examines itself under FAA oversight, may need improvement.

 

The second problem is global regulation. After the Ethiopian tragedy, Mr Muilenburg called President Donald Trump to try to stop the FAA from grounding the plane. That set the tone for his tin-eared handling of the crisis. Since the groundings, he has repeated that the MAX will soon be back in business, once the FAA approves the MCAS software fix, as it is soon expected to. His apparent confidence in the FAA’s authorisation raises further questions about its relationship with Boeing. It highlights a wider problem. After the Ethiopian disaster, the FAA was slower than its counterparts to ground the MAX. Other regulators, such as those in China, may be hesitant to follow the FAA’s leadin approving the fix. Given a majority of Boeing’s business is outside America, that matters.

 

The biggest danger is to Boeing’s brand. Though the firm is part of a civil-aviation duopoly with Airbus, competition between the two is fierce. Reputation is vital. In the months following the Ethiopian disaster, a narrative has taken root that Boeing cut corners in bringing the 737 MAX into service in order to keep up with Airbus’s popular A320neo. Some say this is unfair. But Boeing’s reluctance to take its share of the blame may have lost it what Dómhnal Slattery, boss of Avolon, a large aeroplane-leasing firm, calls the “communications battle”. As he told the Seattle Times during the Paris Air Show, Boeing appears to have forgotten about its biggest constituency: passengers. “What if the aeroplane gets back into the air and no one wants to fly it for 12 or 24 months?” Mr Slattery asked. “Every airline in the world will want to cancel or defer.” The risks to Boeing’s 737 MAX order backlog—of 4,550 jets at the end of May—remain huge, in other words. It was dealt a further blow in Paris when Airbus announced first orders for a long-range, narrow-body jet, the A321XLR, that will compete with a new midsized aircraft that Boeing will not launch for years.

 

End-of-year MAX

 

The share price of the $210bn company suggests investors are supportive of Mr Muilenburg. The IAG deal has bought time. Yet it would be a grave mistake to imagine that Boeing’s main task is to get the 737 MAX back in the sky fast. Instead it has to deal with the aura of incompetence and evasion surrounding the firm. To do that, Boeing’s board should strip Mr Muilenburg of his dual chairman/chief executive role and appoint an independent chairman, who sets three tests. First, Boeing must publish an independent investigation into what went wrong. Second, it has to rebuild relations with foreign regulators who now matter more than the discredited FAA. Last, it has to establish that flyers believe the 737 MAX is safe. If Boeing cannot pass those tests by the end of the year, its board should ask Mr Muilenburg to leave.◼

 

This article appeared in the Business section of the print edition under the headline "Trust-busting"