The Holidays, Family & Being Gay

[Guest XTCHeights]

My family has never put any pressure on me to get married or find a nice girl so I have no reason to complain that I'm mistreated. They try to include me in as many family events as possible taking into consideration we all live in various states. Actually, many times I will decline an invitation yet they insist I attend.

 

When I do attend these functions, as I will this Thanksgiving, I always have an overwhelming feeling of loneliness. As a middle-aged single, still-in-the-closet, man I am finding that I'm becoming increasingly more uncomfortable to be around my family during the holidays or any celebration. All of my siblings are married or engaged; one look around our table I see all couples then me, the odd man out.

 

I'm resigned to the fact that for many guys being gay can be a very lonely lifestyle. XH

[Will]

Anybody can be lonely. It's not difficult at all.

 

Sometimes, one has no choice but to be lonely. In this case, however, you do have a choice, and I speak as someone who has lots of experience with exactly the complex of problems you mention.

 

Except for one problem. I am not in the closet. The closet is the loneliest place on the planet, and not just on Thanksgiving. The best thing you could do for own emotional health would be to start coming out. Notice I said "start." In fact, you've already started by coming out on this board. For men of a certain age, coming out can be unbelievably difficult and long-lived. But it's worth it.

 

That doesn't speak to your condition for Thanksgiving 2001. By Christman 2001, however, you could make some progress, not only in coming out.

 

For what they're worth, here are some things I do that help me. If they help you, I'm glad but I don't guarantee that they will.

 

1. I keep a close watch on self-pity.

2. I make sure that I have made holiday plans that I initiate in my own planning. I do not wait to be invited; I do not expect to be "taken care of;" I do not hope that something better turns up before I have to fall into the default chair at the family (or friends') dinner table.

3. I remember that my emotional stability is more important than my family's. By that, I finally figured out that I was making myself lonely and miserable on the holidays in order to satisfy their needs not mine.

 

It is difficult to be a single, middle-aged, gay man, especially if you are isolated geographically or socially (i.e., the closet). But lots of people have difficulties because of who they are.

 

We cannot chose who we are. But we can chose what we do with who we are, and I hope that you'll find ways to make the holidays what they're supposed to be: happy.

[duke37]

I am coming out to my family this holiday. Should make for interesting post-turkey tryptophan conversation. I don't think I'll have any more in common with my family but at least I'll be able to hold my head up in the face of all the unspoken questions.

 

I don't think loneliness is required for you or me. So what are you going to do about it?

[Guest Rickx]

Do you come out befor or after the meal?

[Rick Munroe]

XTC: Will is right-on, as usual. I'd like to add that there is no such thing as a "gay lifestyle." Elton John, Rick Munroe, and some guy who lives in Oklahoma & drives a FedEx truck can all be gay but I don't think their lifestyles would be similar (unless those other two also sleep 'til noon & have lunch at Boston Market). Your loneliness is by choice, not by birth.

 

duke37: What you are doing is inspiring, even to someone like me, who has been "out" since I was a teenager. Anyone who shows enough self-respect and inner strength to do something they've always been afraid to do gets a big "fuckin' A" from me (not my fuckin' ass...but you can have that too...I meant "thumbs up") (sorry, I almost made it through a post without reference to my ass...but I don't think that's a possibility)

[phage]

It’s all about perspective dude. Unless you come from a “Cleaver-esque” family with only Wally and the Beaver to deal with, you need to take a look around that table and count your blessings. I have a large and supportive family but you couldn’t PAY me to be one of them. The kids, the bickering, the in-laws…the mini-vans for God’s sake! Take a harsh look at them. Focus on the positive in your life and the negative in theirs. Sounds like a rude thing to do during the holidays, but it will restore your peace of mind.

 

I’m not one of those big come out, come out, wherever you are kind of guys, but it does help with the family. It answers many of their unasked questions and keeps you from wondering if they think you are socially challenged. It’s much more fun to wonder if they are thinking about the kinky man sex you may have had last night. (Okay, maybe that’s just me.)

 

Loneliness can be an issue with anyone but it’s got to be harder for closeted men. You get all the negative aspects of being gay without any of the positive aspects to offset them. One of the biggest positives is that gay guys are a lot of fun and make great friends. It helps balance the fact that we aren’t always very good at relationships. You don’t have to come out to the world, but if you stay too deep in the closet, you will have a very hard time finding balance.

[Guest soccerstud]

This post has finally prompted me to "come out" on this Message Center. I been been lurking in the background (even that verb makes me sound so sordid) of the Center for months, commenting on a few items here and there but never really expressing myself on what counts. By the way, so many of the postings are so incredibly thoughtful, well-expressed and helpful. I hope some of you realize how much help and support you are to others of us. So, to so many of you, thanks at Thanksgiving.

 

I can so relate to XTC Heights and Duke 37. And Will, your response was absolutely heartening, well thought out and so well said. I could have mistaken you for my shrink! I have taken it to heart for what is coming up for me. Thanks.

 

I am married, older, and came out to my wife 15 months ago. We have an incredibly good marriage and, except for this "minor" disconnect, are completely compatible and in love. We are determined to make our relationship continue to work. We have worked so hard on this together. We've done a lot of crying and a lot of laughing and--so important--the communication between us has never been better.

 

XTC, in a thoughtful and deliberate manner, I urge you to make your plans to tell those in your family whom you think can best first accept your gayness. You will feel so much more connected, so much less isolated. If it's a brother, sister, in-law, whatever, try to make that first step. In one part of my life I have made one confidant (straight), and it is so uplifting to be able to be open and honest and have supportive discussions. Just pick your family confidants well to start out with. It wouldn't surprise me for you to find someone in your life after you've felt some support and felt so much more comfortable with yourself.

 

Duke, you and I are in this together. I'm coming out to my kids this weekend. (The thoughts of butterballs and the oozing of calories must be having some common effect.) We are an unbelievably close family and it has been tough not telling them (it has been my wife's reluctance up till now, and we have vowed to do everything in this repsect TOGETHER). I am sure it will be tough for them to fathom (I am their Dad, after all), but I absolutely know their love leaves no doubt of their complete ultimate acceptance. I have thought of this weekend, it seems like forever. Good luck to you, too!

 

And Rick (Munroe), I'll take that "fu#king a" too (if I can be so presumptuous)--and maybe one day soon, I'll take it literally when I get to NYC!

 

I know there have been some reservations about some of the vituperation on this site and, recently, about some of the lack of spiritedness. But guys, don't ever think that many of these postings are not of enormous benefit and support to so many of us. As was said a week or so ago (see, I have been lurking), this really is a community. Happy Thanksgiving to us all.

[Will]

Welcome to our little community! Thanks for your kind words and, more, for the helpful things you've said to somebody who doesn't want to be home for the holidays. (I was speaking of XH, but I'm also speaking for myself. The difference is that I'm spending Thanksgiving with a gay friend who's visiting from out of town -- not with my crazy family.)

[Guest BenDover]

I am definately with Rick on this one. It is unbelievably uplifting to know that so many of you guys are giving your families the gift of you gayness. There is nothing like opening the closet door and letting the light in.

 

When I left home and began my own life as a gay man, I figured I was going to have to invent my own traditions around the Holidays. And that's just what I did. I've been having an "Orphans Dinner" on Thanksgiving for 20 some years, now, and a Christmas Eve Orphans Party for the same amount of time. I never really know who's going to show up, its a pot luck, and there is always plenty to eat, plenty to share and plenty of love to go around. People talk, eat, drink, watch TV, take their after dinner walks and naps, and just spend the time together.

 

I am also a firm believer that it is okay to ignore the Holidays, to avoid all the hoopla and shopping and to make the day just any old Thursday, or whatever. No one should HAVE to celebrate what may be nothing more than an opportunity to re-live the nightmares of drunken parents, uncooked meals, fights, money woes, and depression that, for many, the Holidays represent.

 

So, find a couple friends, rent a cabin on the lake, go skiing (no one on the slopes on those days), rent a bunch of videos with a bunch of buddies, eat junk food, take long walks. Do whatever makes you feel good. Don't be a hostage to the Holidays.

 

Again, you guys who are sharing an important part of your lives this weekend, my prayers and thoughts are with you. You have everything to gain. Let us know how it went.

 

And Will, if you were down the street, I'd haul your butt over to my house for a little yard bird.

[Will]

Sounds fun, you cute thang. But what's yard bird? I'm not a chicken any more.

[Rick Munroe]

>The kids, the

>bickering, the in-laws…the mini-vans for God’s sake!

 

All of that can be a part of your life whether you're gay or straight or bi. When will society, and gay men themselves, stop equating being gay with being urban & single & childless? It's nice how you negate the lives of all the gay men & women who have kids & in-laws & Ford Explorers.

 

>One of the biggest positives is that gay guys are a

>lot of fun and make great friends.

 

So true! And black guys are great tap dancers, Jewish guys are thrifty, and Chinese guys can clean your shirt.

Tell us more truths, Archie.

[Rick Munroe]

>But guys, don't ever think that many

>of these postings are not of enormous benefit and support to

>so many of us.

 

Even the ones about my ass?

Seriously...you and duke37 get my respect. Please let us know how it goes, you former-lurker. :*

And when you get to NYC...yeah, we'll see about that fuck. }>

 

(A 3-smiley post. This is addictive.)

[+ Charlie]

Am I the only person whose whole family just seemed to take it for granted that I was gay and never asked those questions about when I was going to get married? I did tell my parents about my orientation when I was 19, but there were no dramatic scenes, no tears, and very few questions. I never specifically said anything to anyone else in my extended family, but they never pushed the topic either. Of course, I did live with another man from the time I was 21, and always brought him along to big family occasions, so maybe they drew their own conclusions (or maybe my parents quietly passed the word).

 

I do sympathize with those who have a difficult time coming out, but I've just never been able to identify with it.

[Guest Tampa Yankee]

>So true! And black guys are great tap dancers,

>Jewish guys are thrifty, and Chinese guys

>can clean your shirt.

>Tell us more truths, Archie.

 

Rick, I see you are gettng in the holiday spirit... LOL

 

But I have to correct you... Scots are thrifty not the Jewish -- they are tight, where I come from anyway, and I find that a big +. :9

 

>>The kids, the

>>bickering, the in-laws…

 

Phage;

 

Got the kids, gave up the bickering and in-laws-- it worked for me

 

>the mini-vans for God’s sake!

>

There was a time I wanted one (for practicality) but I outgrew it, thankfully. Now I'm into autos just a little less practical and more fun.

 

Suggestions sought from all:

 

Unfortunately, I had a little too much fun a few weeks back and turned my 2000 Cougar into a planter. :'( So I'm in the market -- any suggestions -- anyone?? The requirements: stylish, perky acceleration, great brakes (they go together); hugs the road like I hug my fav guy, comes out of a roll on its feet. :+ Money is no object... until I wake up. :-)

 

Just to be clear... the sugestions are for the car -- I've already decided on the plants: African Violets -- the problem is finding a New England winter hardy strain!! :o Will they clash with Laser Red?? -- My sense of decor is 'challenged'!

 

The first suggestion is already in -- BMW convertible -- Z3 I assume? (fails the roll requirement -- I think) Any others??

[bluenix]

How mean! Tee hee.

[phage]

>All of that can be a part of your life whether you're gay or

>straight or bi. When will society, and gay men themselves,

>stop equating being gay with being urban & single &

>childless? It's nice how you negate the lives of all the

>gay men & women who have kids & in-laws & Ford Explorers.

 

Pay attention to the topic stud. The guy is feeling down and lonely because he is the odd man out at a breeder event where most everyone is coupled off. By all means, let’s point out the fact that there are tons of happy gay couples, raising kids and living the kind of life he seems to want. By all means, let’s make sure he feels like a failure by gay standards as well as straight standards.

 

I certainly didn’t mean to “negate” anyone’s life, but those are the things I would find unpleasant about breeder life – that and having sex with women – and I thought that it might help him look on the bright side of his current situation. I guess that isn’t as helpful as talking about your ass, but we all do what we can.

[bluenix]

XH, I think you reveal a lot about your familial relationships when you say that sometimes you will decline to attend a family event, then relent when family members insist. I agree with Will that this is about you meeting their needs, not them meeting yours. I'll go a little further and aver that, typically, issues like wanting you there "to complete the family picture" or whatever are more about appearance than substance. Just because they're making a fuss doesn't mean they aren't taking you for granted.

 

Families are like pets. They need training. For starters, I recommend that the next time you say "No," make it stick. And then sit back and watch the fireworks. It'll be educational, I feel sure.

 

I don't really have a comment about loneliness. I'm a born recluse, myself, for what reason I don't know. Gregarious by day, leave me alone by night. Solo holidays for me are a breeze. It's getting together that's the chore. Go figure.

 

To Duke and Soccerstud, in addition to applauding your courage (Rick used exactly the right word) I would add this: don't make the mistake of thinking you can script other people's reactions. Over the years as I have come out to this family member or that friend, responses have varied wildly. You might be pleasantly surprised, then again you might be just plain surprised.

 

When I came out to my parents, many moons ago, virtually the first words out of my mother's mouth were, "You announce, 'I'm gay,' like you think that makes you better than us." I was floored. I expected outrage, condemnation, not to mention an attempt to make me feel guilty. To me, coming out had forced me to stretch in ways I never would have otherwise. I recognized and celebrated that. Meanwhile, though, I was also looking down on my parents, as if living with them for the first part of my life had held me back or something, and to my mother's credit, she called me on it. First things first, I guess, since we did have several hills to climb after that.

 

Anyhow, dems my thoughts. Thanks for the opportunity, guys. Meanwhile, I'm feeling contrary, so tomorrow night I'm leaving the turkey in the fridge and am braising lamb shanks, and making saffron risotto, instead. I haven't told anybody and hope there will be a least a modicum of upset. How 'bout DAT.

[OneFinger]

Thanksgiving, surrounded by hetro family, can be stressful whether in or out of the closet. But here's what my family did.

 

About 15 years before my parents died they made a suggestion that I really liked. On years ending in an even number we'd get together as a family. On "odd" years we were on our own. That gave my married siblings a chance to be with their in-laws and gave my parents an opportunity to be with their brothers and sisters.

 

For me it was a kick in the pants to develop my own "gay family" traditions. On the odd years I usually spend Thanksgiving with other gay friends who either don't have family in the area or had been kicked out of their family. You wouldn't believe the number of people in the gay community who spend Thanksgiving alone.

 

Now that my parents are gone, the holidays aren't lonely or stressful. I still have the memories of Thanksgiving with them but I also have my gay traditions too. After my mother died, my father actually chose to spend the "odd" year Thanksgivings with me and my gay friends. Boy, I never thought that would happen. But, we both did a lot of changing and maturing. And, I really appreciated the way my gay friends made him feel welcome.

[Guest Gentle Dude]

Money is no object... until I wake up. :-)

>

>Just to be clear... the sugestions are for the car -- I've

>already decided on the plants: African Violets -- the

>problem is finding a New England winter hardy strain!! :o

>Will they clash with Laser Red?? -- My sense of decor is

>'challenged'!

>

>The first suggestion is already in -- BMW convertible -- Z3

>I assume? (fails the roll requirement -- I think) Any

>others??

 

I've been to the Porsche dealer twice already and been checking out their new 911 Turbo coupe and the 911 Carrera Cabriolet convertible...both are just AWESOME, but I think I like the convertible more. Haven't decided yet but for sure, I'm getting me a new Porsche for Christmas.

 

GD

 

GD

[Guest XTCHeights]

>XTC: Will is right-on, as usual. I'd like to add

>that there is no such thing as a "gay lifestyle." Elton

>John, Rick Munroe, and some guy who lives in Oklahoma &

>drives a FedEx truck can all be gay but I don't think their

>lifestyles would be similar (unless those other two

>also sleep 'til noon & have lunch at Boston Market). Your

>loneliness is by choice, not by birth.

>

TO RICK MONROE: I would have to disagree about your feeling there is no such thing as a gay lifestyle. Just as in any sub-culture's population you will find people of different background and interests. Being gay in itself is a lifestyle, while I do not believe it is a chosen style. I do not find a difference between the culture in a gay lifestyle from other fractions of society; those who practice black magic live a certain lifestyle as do surfers or skate boarders. Even ethnic groups have their own lifestyle. Maybe it is the way I use the term that you have a hard time with. I do thank you for your contribution.

 

TO THE GROUP: In my original post I do not feel I would be any less lonely if I came out to my family. It would not change the fact that I have no partner, no very close gay friends or make it any easier or harder to sit at a table and look at all of the "couples."

 

I do have much respect for those who have stepped out of the closet and/or those who mentioned they're planning to soon.

 

I wish you all a HAPPY THANKSGIVING and to the readers outside of the states I thank you for your general input.

[Guest soccerstud]

Thanks, Blue. Good advice. Though I have thought about their reactions forever, you're right. I need to be prepared for whatever they may come out with. Well, here goes!

[bluenix]

Here's lookin' at you, s-stud. Good luck.

[Rick Munroe]

>Being gay in itself is a

>lifestyle

 

Webster's defines lifestyle as: the typical way of life of an individual, group, or culture. It defines gay as: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex. Having sexual desires for a man does not define one's way of life. I do not live the same way of life as every other gay man, including you. Being gay is not a lifestyle, let alone a lonely one. You choose to live your life the way you do. It isn't because you are gay; it's because you made that decision.

 

>Even ethnic groups have their own lifestyle.

 

You're right. Diana Ross and a black woman in a ghetto live the same lifestyle. I hope the latter is enjoying her stretch limo tonight as she lives "the black lifestyle." Margaret Cho and every Korean woman live "the Korean lifestyle." I hope Maggie enjoys workin' on the rice paddy!

 

I'm off now to go live the Blow Job lifestyle. Happy Thanksgiving.

[Guest XTCHeights]

>>Being gay in itself is a

>>lifestyle

>

>Webster's defines lifestyle as: the typical way of life

>of an individual, group, or culture. It defines gay as:

>of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct

>sexual desire toward another of the same sex. Having

>sexual desires for a man does not define one's way of life.

>I do not live the same way of life as every other gay man,

>including you. Being gay is not a lifestyle, let

>alone a lonely one. You choose to live your life the way

>you do. It isn't because you are gay; it's because you made

>that decision.

>

Actually one who is gay is part of a community. A community by Webster's definition can be a "group." Being part of a "group" with common interests does produce a style, thus gay lifestyle. People who are part of a community do live their life in a variety of ways by choice or not. What you might consider pink others might view as bright red. That difference does not delete the community each belongs to. XH

[mmk]

I guess that when I came out to my family, it was not a big deal at all. It was as if it did not matter to them at all, just provided I was happy. I have never been dating anyone over the holidays to where I would take them home for the holidays but I know that I could.

 

(In fact when my sister got married a few years ago, I did say to my mother that if I would be asked not to bring anyone to her wedding or reception that I would not be attending. I did not expect my sister to say that but she might have asked because of her future in-laws might have acted funny. When I did say that to my mother, she whole heartedly agreed with me and said she would not want me to be there either if that would happen. It did not happen but I did not take anyone anyway.)

 

My question is now, why do you have to spend the holidays with your family. I am not going to say that you should come out to your family because only you would know whether that is right. I will tell people that my own coming out experience was very positive and that I try to tell people that because before I came out to my family, I would only here the negative experiences about rejection and that is not always the case. But getting back to what I am started with, if you do not want to spend the holidays in an atmosphere of uncomfort THEN DON'T.

Take a trip, spend it with friends or just rent a few movies. I find that the older I get, I want to spend the holidays my way and that way does not always include family.

 

But my final comment to XTCHeights (and this is not meant to be snide or sarcastic) but you said you are a middle aged man and you are always the solitary one at the holiday functions. I think that some of them know or have figured it out. When was the last time you had a relationship with a woman that they know of. Some of your relative probably are not aware but there woud be some that have read the writing on the wall and do realize and have not rejected you. There is never really a comfortable time to come out. It is very awkward for all involved. I do wish you well when you do it and that m thought are with you.