What is wrong with verification?

[SamPP]

What is wrong with verifying a client. I seem to be hitting a brick wall 90% of the time over simple verification. I can totally understand the need for being discreet and a requirement for privacy but to me, safety is important. It is not like the information obtained through verification is used for any other purpose than that of safety, so what is the problem? Any others that verify run into problems? Any others that do not verify ever have any situations that may have been avoided with a verification?

 

Sam in Atlanta

[+ deej]

You'll have to explain what you mean by verification.

 

Some will be thinking credit check, criminal backround check, or employment history check.

 

Verification is one of those words that can mean many things to many people, ranging from benign to terrifying.

[SamPP]

Certainly no credit check, employment history or criminal background, just ways to verify the client is who he says he is. Definately nothing terrifying.

 

Sam in Atlanta

[+ deej]

You still haven't said what those "ways" are, kiddo.

 

In our current American culture, people are a little on edge on the subject of "verification" because of all the news about governmental spying, and threats of identity theft.

 

In some parts of Europe, "verification" brings up cultural memories of Gestapo officers demanding "PAPERS!"

 

I had a Chinese immigrant as a houseguest for several months last year. He was PETRIFIED of law enforcement officers, because of his experinces in China. When a Sherriff knocked on my door (to ask if I'd seen anything related to some parking lot vandalism), my Chinese guest cowered in the back room in abject terror.

 

When you talk about verification, you have to be 100% explicit about what you MEAN by verification or people will have strong reactions.

 

You haven't been clear.

[RockHard]

"just ways to verify the client is who he says he is"

 

Well, then, I guess that depends on what you think the meaning of the word "is" is.

 

If an escort has any intention of "verifying" me, he will lose the opportunity to earn a living. For me and my dollar, my privacy supersedes your safety and paranoia.

 

Trust and risk are factors that play into many, many encounters and agreements. Business people tend to find a way to deal with them. No movement in life is risk free.

 

If you have a Dahmer-phobia and it's preventing you from "performing," then I suggest you find another gig.

 

For an encounter with me, all you get is clean breath, clean skin, my Yahoo email address, my cell phone number, and cash. Take it or leave it.

[JT Brooklyn]

Verify a Client? IMHO..For a 1 or 2 HR Hookup, just what is the point?

 

OTHER than getting HIS Cell # and Address Correctly, Your not talking about Plane Tickets etc...LOL

 

Or are we talking about "Verifying" his ability to Pay the Rate? LOL :P

[Guest Merlin]

I usually do not give my correct or full name. How many escorts use their correct name? Many use an answering machine or answering service to shield them from calls they don't want to accept. I would avoid an escort who wants to find more about me by verifying.

[indyeric]

It's very understandable that an escort, who goes alone to homes, hotel rooms, etc., of men he's never met, and who, if he does in calls, has men he's never met into his home, would want to verify that the person "is who he says he is," etc.

 

There's NOTHING wrong with that desire. You want to minimize your risk. Who wouldn't?

 

So perhaps it would help to ask the question in a different way: "why are many clients afraid of giving (much) personal information to escorts, and upset by the idea of any form of a client database?" The short answer is: it scares us. The transaction between an escort and a client, after all, is taking place in an environment in which much of the culture is homophobic and sex for money is not only illeagal, but socially unacceptable even in much of the gay community.

 

The key thing to understand is that for many clients, in order to feel it's safe to hire an escort, they have to perceive that the encounter is going to be absolutely private and there's virtually no possibility that the client's use of an escort will become known to anyone else in his personal or professional life. Without that perception, many clients are going to be too afraid to hire.

 

While it may not seem fair, and probabaly isn't fair, the fact is that for such a client, his need for maximum privacy is paramount, and is going to outweight his understanding of and sympathy for an escort's similar need to minimize risks. In the competition between the desire for sexual fulfillment with an escort and the need to maintain secrecy about one's gay life and/or use of escorts, the latter is going to win out if there's a suspicion that personal information may be shared with others.

 

"But I wouldn't use or share the information inappropriately!" you reply. I believe you. I may even trust you. But there's no way for a client to feel 100% sure that nothing would could go wrong. Some nightmare scenarios: An escort is arrested for prostitution or something more serious, and the police get ahold of his client records. Then who knows what happens? Visits from the police? If it was a fedral crime, from the FBI? An escort's boyfriend develops drug additicion, needs money, gets ahold of information, and then tries to blackmail clients. And so on and so forth.

 

I have a friend who when he first saw a therapist, to start dealing with being a closeted married gay man, would not given even his therapist his real name. He paid in cash. He didn't give the therapist his phone number. He was that afraid.

 

Now, can you imagine someone like him giving any personally verifiable information to an escort, or hiring any escort if he thought any information about him would be put in an escort-run database?

 

Crazy things do happen. Confidential information gets out.

 

A friend of mine used to work in an academic environment--and never will again. He's white and grew up in a well-to-do racist southern family. Despite his best efforts to undo that early training, he once in a moment of frustration used a racial epithet to a white colleague when referring to an African-American colleague. Who then reported it to my colleague's supervisor. Who privately reprimanded my friend, who also agreed to undergo counseling. Everything was done in confidence and the matter was resolved, with my friend on a sort of probation. But the supervisor had told his boyfriend, whom he trusted, and who was also an employee, about the incident. The supervisor and the boyfriend had an acrimonious breakup a couple of years later. The angry, now tweaked-out boyfriend then sent an "anonymous" email to the entire faculty and staff attacking the supervisor for, in part, "allowing" this racist to remain on the staff unpunished.

 

The ex-boyfriend got fired. But my friend ended up having to resign because his reputation at work was ruined and his situation in the racially sensitive/politically correct environment became untenable.

 

Despite the fact that most of us posting here think escorting/hiring are acceptable, positive activites that ought to be fully legal and socially acceptable, the fact of the matter is that in the larger society they are not viewed that way. And many--although certainly not all--clients and potential clients are conflicted about their attraction to men, have internalized homophobia and shame to deal with, shame issues, body issues, age issues, etc., etc.

 

For many clients, their use of escorts is to a great extent compartmentalized, often carefully hidden from the rest of their lives. Just the fact that the client is attracted to men could cause great embarrassment and shame and other repurcussions in the rest of his life. And the knowledge that he had been sexually active with another man could cost him his marriage, his family, his friends, even his job.

 

And proof that he had paid sex for money could land him in jail and a criminal record (or so he worries).

 

I'm an openly gay man who is somewhat overweight, attracted to muscular guys in the 18-30 range, and lives in a small rural town. I occasionally hire escorts when I have the opportunity. Despite the fact that I'm out and that I'm privately in favor of the legalization of prostitution, it would still cause considerable difficulty if my friends, both gay and straight, my children, my ex-wife, and my employer were to somehow learn that I like to hire escorts.

 

I've seen Murphy's Law in action too many times. No matter what the best intentions are of the people who would set up a verification service, there's too much risk that the security of the information would be compromised. And for many clients/potential clients, the same risks seem apparent in giving personally-identifiable information to an individual escort.

 

And from the escort's point of view, it isn't fair and it sucks. I understand.

 

--Eric

[Scotsman]

Eric, thank you for the excellent post. As a potential client of escorts, you expressed by concerns perfectly.

Scot

[JamesK840]

Serving the client's needs, ALL of them.

 

>I can totally understand the need for being discreet and a

>requirement for privacy

 

Apparently not.

 

 

>but to me, safety is important.

 

You've not made clear what exactly your concern is nor what you think is sufficient verification.

 

 

>It is not like the information obtained through verification is used

>for any other purpose than that of safety, so what is the

>problem?

 

How exactly does a client know that? Somebody with a career, maybe a spouse or a whole family who could be hurt by any revelation... Why would they hand somebody all the information needed for blackmail, especially when all they know about you is that you need money and are willing to go outside of social (and legal) norms to get it??

 

Even if you didn't intend to use it, exactly how secure is the system you are storing all this information in? An online email account you log into from computer cafes or other people's homes all over the world, any one of which could record your password? On your easily stolen laptop? In a computer which could be seized by law enforcement?

 

 

>Any others that verify run into problems? Any others

>that do not verify ever have any situations that may have been

>avoided with a verification?

>

>Sam in Atlanta

 

I'd still like to know exactly what you think this prevents...

 

If you're concerned with assault, kidnapping or murder, I'm not sure you realize how much info the police could get, if needed, from simply a cell phone number or a hotel room date/time. I don't think these are large risks, but we've all probably heard second-hand reports of at least assault... and I'd bet if you talked to the actual victims of such a thing most would tell you there were warning signs they ignored far bigger then that the client didn't give his date of birth and mother's maiden-name (or whatever exactly it is that you want...).

 

I suppose you may find it comforting to have somebody's info if you fall victim to what I'd figure are the two biggest risks: a client who won't pay or catching a disease. Either way I don't see how you use that information in a way that is very productive and doesn't make other clients even more wary of you. If these are your main concern I'd suggest you think about it this way: it's just like demanding money up-front. You may well weed out a guy who may have tried to pull something but in the process you've also weeded out a dozen or more experienced clients several of whom may have become repeat clients or recommended you to friends.

 

I've had dozens of great experiences with escorts who knew only my email address, if that. Even demanding my cell number (in an ad posting, say) is often enough for me to move on to the next one, though I have no problem giving my number to a well-recommended escort or a repeat hire (as long as I don't think he'll use it to pester me for more 'work', another concern).

 

If I'd contacted you and this wasn't enough then I'd just move on to the next guy, and I simply choose to be discreet... there are those who's main reason for hiring is the *need* to be discreet. But instead of considering that you seem to have this elaborate plan to foil a serial-killer by getting him to fax you his drivers' license or something. Good luck with that...

[Chuck50]

When I try to book an escort for the first time I tell him a little about mysself and also include my handle on this site the one that I have reviewed under and posted under. If he can't figure it out by then something is wrong. I also usually talk on the phone to them as well just a couple thing that I do to let the escort know. I have already done my homework on him basically from here. HUGS Chuck:P :P

[SamPP]

ok, going to try and clarify some things:

 

I work for a service that requires the verification however, i also agree with it. They are reputable in Atlanta and for many many years have shown respect for clients privacy as well as the escorts privacy. They verify to avoid LE issues as well as for the safety of the escort.

 

I dont believe I have ever walked in to a situation where I have feared anything Dahmer related or even assault for that matter...In my mind, if LE called an escort with only a cell number and email address, both of which are very easy to obtain anonymously, that escort loses. It appears to me through most of these posts that this is absolutely OK to most. In other words, if i ask to know that im not walking into a LE sting I lose you and if I dont ask I risk freedom and because I concern myself with this I am in the wrong business? You have your concerns and they are important to you but Im not here telling you that your concerns for privacy and discretion puts you in the wrong hobby.

 

You can absolutely argue your need for being discreet so that no one involved has any idea who you are, but give no understanding to an escort that wishes to remain safe and able to go home after? It could be veiwed that most here like to keep it easy for LE to do its job. I guess I felt that both parties respected the others concerns. Especially with an agency that has been in business for years,, and is discreet and understanding to the clients need to remain that way.

 

Eric, that was an excellent post and I really appreciate the time and thought you put into it.

 

Sam

[+ deej]

>I work for a service that requires the verification however, i

>also agree with it.

 

You still haven't explained what "verification" you're talking about, but apparently your agency does it. Why don't you tell us what, exactly, they verify?

 

What verification are they doing that's so completely bulletproof to law enforcement (I'm assuming that's what you meant by LE)?

 

You're using a term (verification) as if it has some concrete meaning when in fact it doesn't. You'll have to explain what it means in THIS context.

 

For example, when I check out books from the library, their form of "verification" is my library card. But I've sent my sister to the library with my library card. When I use my credit card, they rely on my signature for "verification" but anyone could mimic that.

 

What do you MEAN by verification?

[JT Brooklyn]

SAMpp.. Sounds to me like you work for a Girl/Guy Agency?

These Agencies definitely and should Protect the Girl's on all Hookups! :P

[SamPP]

Since they do the verification, Im not 100% on it. I do understand that it is nothing like faxing a drivers license or any type of background check. Everyone I have seen and asked how the appointment setup process went told me it was fine and they had no problem with it.

 

Sam

[SamPP]

>SAMpp.. Sounds to me like you work for a Girl/Guy Agency?

>These Agencies definitely and should Protect the Girl's on all

>Hookups! :P

 

Yes I do, and why only the girls?

 

Sam

[+ deej]

>Since they do the verification, Im not 100% on it. I do

>understand that it is nothing like faxing a drivers license or

>any type of background check.

 

Why don't you ask them what they do and then bring that information back to this discussion? You're advocating doing what they do, but you actually don't know what that is.

 

>Everyone I have seen and asked

>how the appointment setup process went told me it was fine and

>they had no problem with it.

 

Then chances are good it's little more than asking for a phone number. Again, go find out what they ACTUALLY do and then let's discuss it.

 

This is a very valuable discussion if they've found some magic formula to ward off law enforcement, protect escorts, and still respect client wishes. A LOT of people would like to know that formula!

 

I suspect, though, that you're putting a little too much faith into their efforts.

[SamPP]

I am aware that nothing is fullproof, I dont put everything into it, that wasnt the point I was trying to make. Just as you believe that every little bit of your information helps protect you, every little bit helps us as well. I dont know any other way to explain my viewpoint here. I do believe my question has pretty much been answered though. Thank you all for your input.

 

Sam of Atlanta

[OneFinger]

Sam,

 

You're one hot guy by your pictures and I'd be tempted to hire you. But that ain't going to happen as long as you (or your handlers) insist on putting me through a verification process.

 

Like others have said, I value my privacy. Some escorts don't know my "real" name on the first meeting and I only disclose info about myself when I feel it is necessary and they can be trusted.

 

I realize you're a fairly new member on this site. But, before you registered, there were instances here (and on similar sites) where escorts disclosed names, occupations, and personal info on clients and other escorts. They actually went so far as to post pictures of some clients.

 

I've had my own heartaches with a couple of people on this site who decided to cyberstalk me.

 

I value my privacy and I'm not about to give out personal info on myself to an escort or an agency just because they feel they have a need to know. You've got to earn that level of trust.

 

I fully understand why you would want verified clients. And, I have no problem if you continue with that policy.

 

But, that does mean that I won't be experiencing your very appealing body and your pockets will not be lined with my benjamins.

 

However, I can still lust and wish things were different. }(

[JT Brooklyn]

Sammy Babe, I don't know about the Market you work in but....

 

BUT in NYC-LaLaLand.. there are many more Disturbed, Bent, Sick, Wacko "Hetero's" Hiring the Girl's...Than there are (ALL of the Above)"Homo's" hiring the Guy's! That's just the Law of Average's...

 

I would be much more comfortable as a Guy dealing with Guy's.. than a Girl dealing with Guy's..My Hat goes off to them, But MY Wallet doesn't open-up to them! LOL

 

Apparently The "Verification" you seem to look for, isn't warranted all over by Working Guy's who aren't "intimidated" by Stranger's! :P

[JamesK840]

I've heard of some girl agencies and especially high-end female pornstars who insist on work information, such as seeing a pay stub or wanting to call a client's employer to ask for them. I suppose either of those things would take 5 minutes of preparation on Law Enforcement's part and as such may provide a little protection.

 

But it would be a cold day in hell before I gave an escort agency my employer's number with my real name...

 

This sure would be a less pointless discussion if we knew that this magical verification we're talking about actually existed instead of just being a reason your agency rattled off to justify taking so much of your fee... My guess in this context is that the most they do is ask for a number and then call the client back on it, which sure doesn't sound like a surefire LE detection mechanism to me.

 

>It appears to me through most of these posts that this is

>absolutely OK to most.

 

That's not how I read the prevailing opinion in this thread, nor does your rosy picture of the magical verification jive with your own question:

 

>I seem to be hitting a brick wall 90% of the time over simple

>verification.

[JT Brooklyn]

James..Maybe it's time to ask "Heidi Fleiss" her Secret for Successful Verification? LOL

 

I'm wondering whatever happened to her "Man Ranch" she was opening?

 

Do the Guy's "Working It" there, need Verification from the Women? LOL :P

[pierrot]

This has to be one of the oddest discussions I've read on this board. "Sam" has brought up the idea that clients should show some kind of i.d. when they hire an escort. I suppose that's what he means be "verification", although he has refused categorically to specify, despite repeated requests, what in the hell he's talking about.

 

So why are we all wasting our time on a question that we don't even know what it is?

 

For what it's worth Sam, you can forget anyone with half a brain providing personal i.d. to an escort before hiring him. This whole business is illegal, so who would want to put themselves at risk for no reason?

[+ deej]

>I do believe my

>question has pretty much been answered though.

 

I'm glad you got the answer you were looking for, although since you've refused to explain what you're asking about I'm not sure if your answer is valid.

[+ deej]

>This sure would be a less pointless discussion if we knew that

>this magical verification we're talking about actually existed

>instead of just being a reason your agency rattled off to

>justify taking so much of your fee... My guess in this

>context is that the most they do is ask for a number and then

>call the client back on it, which sure doesn't sound like a

>surefire LE detection mechanism to me.

 

The agency's website has this to say: "Pre-screening is required (no exceptions)."

 

That's about as much explanation as we're going to get, I suppose.