Doctors and Others: Kidney Stone Prevention Ideas

[+ azdr0710]

have never yet had kidney stones, but the horror stories have me worried......

one friend mentioned this product: https://kidneycop.com/ and the active ingredients are B6, magnesium, citric acid, phytin, and banana stem.....is this snake oil or effective or effective-but-there-are-other-simpler-ways?.......

I've heard drinking plenty of water is important, but that doesn't seem fail-proof to me.....

this forum thread mentions kidney stones at times, but is more about the prostate: https://www.companyofmen.org/topic/129214-my-urologist-prescribed-flomax-any-thoughts-experiences/

is there conventional wisdom on sure-fire ways to prevent kidney stones?....I assume there is no 100% guarantee, but what are the standard recommendations....thanks a lot

[Luv2play]

I had severe kidney stone attacks starting in my 40's. Ended up in the hospital a number of times and had several procedures to remove them, including lithostrypsy and surgical removal. 

My urologist told me they would probably not bother me after 65 and he was right. It's been around 10 years since I had an attack.

They can be hereditary, my father suffered from them as well.

[Guest]

Well, it helps to know what the stone was made of. Always keeping your urine as dilute as possible is good advice regardless of which type of stone. The specific gravity should stay under 1.010 (OTC strips will tell you). The most common stones, oxalate, are less likely to form under acidic conditions, so drinking in acidic fluid such as apple cider vinegar can help, but this would have the opposite effect for urate stones (more likely to form). If you didn't collect/have analyzed your stone, the next time you have a stone, just pee into a coffee filter, and take the stone to your doctor for analysis.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Unicorn

[+ nycman]

Drink more water.

[Luv2play]

The first time I had a kidney stone pass my gp thought it was an urinary tract infection and prescribed an antibiotic. He was a gay doctor and knew my sexual history. After about three or four days of increasing pain in my lower back I expelled a stone in the toilet. I remember the instant relief as I heard it clink against the porcelain bowl of the toilet.

After that I started seeing a urologist who took over my care. 

[Rudynate]

I have known two guys with a history of kidney stones.  They both drink plenty of water

[Guest]

8 hours ago, Luv2play said:

The first time I had a kidney stone pass my gp thought it was an urinary tract infection and prescribed an antibiotic. He was a gay doctor and knew my sexual history....

Gaack! I hope you found a new physician! So he didn't even send the urine for urinalysis, which is inexcusable for any urinary condition. (Or--I don't know which is worse--didn't know how to interpret a urinalysis) That's not exactly meeting the standards of care. Where I worked (and where I went to medical school), no referral to urology could take place without a urinalysis. It's not as if stones are rare. 

[Luv2play]

Unfortunately that doctor was fighting what turned into a terminal cancer case. He died just before his 40th birthday. I didn't blame him for the misdiagnosis. Compared to what he was facing, my situation was relatively minor although painful at the time.

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Luv2play said:

Unfortunately that doctor was fighting what turned into a terminal cancer case...

Sorry to hear about your former physician. It was unclear from your prior posting what symptom(s) you had that led to his misdiagnosis (hopefully not just the back pain!), nor what part of the urinary tract he thought was infected--urethra, prostate, bladder, or kidney (he did do a prostate exam, right?). Although it's always inexcusable not to get a UA in the presence of urinary symptoms, if fever was the symptom which led him astray (probably the most un-stone-like symptom), then you're in luck because the stones which form due to infection, struvite stones, are very rare and almost never recur (absent a chronic infection--never seen it happen). Otherwise, if you get a stone again, collect it before it goes plink on your toilet bowl. You can bring the stone in a Ziploc bag. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Unicorn

[Luv2play]

11 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Sorry to hear about your former physician. It was unclear from your prior posting what symptom(s) you had that led to his misdiagnosis (hopefully not just the back pain!), nor what part of the urinary tract he thought was infected--urethra, prostate, bladder, or kidney (he did do a prostate exam, right?). Although it's always inexcusable not to get a UA in the presence of urinary symptoms, if fever was the symptom which led him astray (probably the most un-stone-like symptom), then you're in luck because the stones which form due to infection, struvite stones, are very rare and almost never recur (absent a chronic infection--never seen it happen). Otherwise, if you get a stone again, collect it before it goes plink on your toilet bowl. You can bring the stone in a Ziploc bag. 

It was a tragedy that he died before reaching his 40th. He had just moved in with his boyfriend in a new house when he was diagnosed  with Hodgkin's. He left his bf and moved back in with his ex. to die.

Regarding my situation he diagnosed an infection of the bladder. I was having frequent urination and some discomfort. I didnt recover the first stone but did get a subsequent one and it was calcium as I recall. All so long ago. It had spikey little edges and so small considering the pain it caused. I gave it to my urologist. 

The last stone he went in through my penis to extract it from my utethra. No pain as he did a local but just this pressure as he did the extraction. He showed it to me afterwards. This was about 20 years ago.

  

11 hours ago, Unicorn said:

 

[Guest]

41 minutes ago, Luv2play said:

... I didnt recover the first stone but did get a subsequent one and it was calcium as I recall..

By that, I presume you mean calcium oxalate. In addition to the previously-mentioned keeping your urine dilute (drinking plenty of fluids), thiazide water pills (chlorthalidone, indapamide) can be helpful, as well as probably potassium citrate (if you take thiazides, you'll need extra potassium anyway). I hesitate to recommend avoiding foods high in oxalate, because they tend to be very healthful foods, and restricting dietary oxalate hasn't really been shown to reduce stones anyway. Oh, and definitely avoid vitamin C supplements. 

Edited December 19, 2022 by Unicorn

[Luv2play]

39 minutes ago, Unicorn said:

By that, I presume you mean calcium oxalate. In addition to the previously-mentioned keeping your urine dilute (drinking plenty of fluids), thiazide water pills (chlorthalidone, indapamide) can be helpful, as well as probably potassium citrate (if you take thiazides, you'll need extra potassium anyway). I hesitate to recommend avoiding foods high in oxalate, because they tend to be very healthful foods, and restricting dietary oxalate hasn't really been shown to reduce stones anyway. Oh, and definitely avoid vitamin C supplements. 

I haven't had a stone pass in over 14 years and at 75 I no longer think of them. I eat lots of foods rich in oxalate and take no supplements as I eat a very healthful diet. I keep well hydrated. 

12 hours ago, Unicorn said:

Sorry to hear about your former physician. It was unclear from your prior posting what symptom(s) you had that led to his misdiagnosis (hopefully not just the back pain!), nor what part of the urinary tract he thought was infected--urethra, prostate, bladder, or kidney (he did do a prostate exam, right?). Although it's always inexcusable not to get a UA in the presence of urinary symptoms, if fever was the symptom which led him astray (probably the most un-stone-like symptom), then you're in luck because the stones which form due to infection, struvite stones, are very rare and almost never recur (absent a chronic infection--never seen it happen). Otherwise, if you get a stone again, collect it before it goes plink on your toilet bowl. You can bring the stone in a Ziploc bag. 

It was a tragedy that he died before reaching his 40th. He had just moved in with his boyfriend in a new house when he was diagnosed  with Hodgkin's. He left his bf and moved back in with his ex. to die.

Regarding my situation he diagnosed an infection of the bladder. I was having frequent urination and some discomfort. I didnt recover the first stone but did get a subsequent one and it was calcium as I recall. All so long ago. It had spikey little edges and so small considering the pain it caused. I gave it to my urologist. 

The last stone he went in through my penis to extract it from my utethra. No pain as he did a local but just this pressure as he did the extraction. He showed it to me afterwards. This was about 20 years ago.

  

12 hours ago, Unicorn said:

 

[Frequentflier]

About 10 years ago I had two kidney stones. The pain was unbelievable and ended up with me in the emergency room. Fortunately they passed on their own so I didn't have to go through the removal procedure outlined by the doctor. 

I was told to reduce eating foods with high oxalate content. Google those - that change was not difficult and worth it to reduce a repeat experience. 

I was also told to drink at least 3 quarts of water a day which I've been doing. Now that I'm going through Chemo I find that water intake beneficial as well.

The doctor told me that most people who have an experience with kidney stones forget the pain fairly quick and don't change their eating and water drinking consumption. They are prone to be reminded again and again

And sure, there are some people who won't do anything different and won't get stones again but I see no downside to more water intake and limiting (not eliminating) foods that challenge your kidneys.

[Luv2play]

I can't imagine drinking that much water a day. I get a lot of water from orher sources in the food I eat. Lot's of natural foods that are not processed. They contain an incredible amount of water, some fruits and veggies are up to 90 percent water. 

[Guest]

13 hours ago, Frequentflier said:

...I was told to reduce eating foods with high oxalate content...

Again, while there is some intuitive sense in reducing foods with lots of oxalate if one gets calcium oxalate stones, it has not been shown that this intervention is beneficial, even in observational studies. For many years, many physicians recommended avoiding seeds and nuts to prevent diverticulitis. When the studies were done, it turned out that this advice was wrong all along. 

Foods high in oxalate tend to be very healthful foods, such as beans/legumes, seeds/nuts, spinach, soy, tofu, and eggplant. Avoiding these foods does come at a cost. I'm not saying it's a bad idea to avoid them, either, just that there really isn't a lot of science to back up that piece of advice. It could be the avoidance is helpful, or that just reduces consumption of healthful foods.

Current AUA guidelines only advise limiting dietary oxalate in those patients who have high urinary oxalate levels, and even then the advice comes from "expert opinion," not from scientific evidence. 

https://www.auanet.org/guidelines-and-quality/guidelines/kidney-stones-medical-mangement-guideline

As I mentioned in a prior post, there is scientific evidence behind the recommendations for a thiazide diuretic and potassium citrate (Grade B) for calcium oxalate stones. 

Edited December 24, 2022 by Unicorn