White Lotus Returns

[MikeBiDude]

🤷🏻‍♂️ was everyone watching Academy Awards and miss Episode 3?

My only comment is to mention Mr. Timothy Ratliff didn’t need to take sleeping pills….he could have just watched Episode 3 💤

[MikeThomas]

@mikebidude… agree 💤 

[+ EVdude]

2 hours ago, MikeBiDude said:

🤷🏻‍♂️ was everyone watching Academy Awards and miss Episode 3?

My only comment is to mention Mr. Timothy Ratliff didn’t need to take sleeping pills….he could have just watched Episode 3 💤

Definitely a filler episode but enjoyed the snake show scenes. Been to one of those in Thailand and wanted to free them all too!

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

If we have to sit through this much shit, the payoff better be damned good.

This season (so far) is neither funny, engaging or interesting.  The writing is bland and feels like it was rushed out.

It's a perfect example of a location shoot not being the saving grace.

[Simon Suraci]

Snoozefest so far through episodes 2&3. As predicted, it’s a slow burn, with lots of languid buildup and we’re almost halfway through already.

That snake bite was the highlight of episodes 2 & 3. I can’t imagine Chelsea would be casually walking around going to dinner with little more than a bandaid so soon after the incident. Wouldn’t she feel sick, tired, in pain, vomiting, nauseated, or at least distressed? Maybe need some bed rest to recover? Cobra venom is serious stuff. She may manage to survive with swift medical attention, but not before the venom severely affects her nervous system, organ function, cardiovascular system, and breathing. What a nightmare.

And what’s with the robber? Why is he smashing and grabbing gift shop jewelry? Seems like if you’re going to the trouble and risk, go for more valuable items, and more of them. We’re seeing more theme developments with the “snake choker thing” being “taken” or “released” (depending on one’s point of view) from its glass cage by an ominous madman, resulting in Chelsea’s near death. And yet she sticks by the snake in her life, Rick. He doesn’t care about her. He barely even likes her, yet she stays. How long will it take before he strikes her with a fatal bite?

[CuriousByNature]

4 hours ago, Simon Suraci said:

Snoozefest so far through episodes 2&3. As predicted, it’s a slow burn, with lots of languid buildup and we’re almost halfway through already.

That snake bite was the highlight of episodes 2 & 3. I can’t imagine Chelsea would be casually walking around going to dinner with little more than a bandaid so soon after the incident. Wouldn’t she feel sick, tired, in pain, vomiting, nauseated, or at least distressed? Maybe need some bed rest to recover? Cobra venom is serious stuff. She may manage to survive with swift medical attention, but not before the venom severely affects her nervous system, organ function, cardiovascular system, and breathing. What a nightmare.

And what’s with the robber? Why is he smashing and grabbing gift shop jewelry? Seems like if you’re going to the trouble and risk, go for more valuable items, and more of them. We’re seeing more theme developments with the “snake choker thing” being “taken” or “released” (depending on one’s point of view) from its glass cage by an ominous madman, resulting in Chelsea’s near death. And yet she sticks by the snake in her life, Rick. He doesn’t care about her. He barely even likes her, yet she stays. How long will it take before he strikes her with a fatal bite?

I wondered the same thing about the seriousness of the bite, and then thought maybe it ended up being a dry bite where no venom is used.  Apparently it takes a lot of energy for a snake to produce venom, so depending on the species, there is a possibility that a bite like that could be more of a warning than an actual envenomation.  

[TruthBTold]

On 2/17/2025 at 8:56 PM, Simon Suraci said:

^agreed!

I’ll take whatever male nudity they dish out. Nice ass shot.

What’s with the creepy incest vibes though?

This season seems like it will be a slow burn indeed.

I want more Jennifer Coolidge 😊 

Not exactly sure what people mean by "incest vibes."  What I did read more is the younger brother dealing more and more with his homosexuality when he sees his brother in the bathroom and his brother's erection.  I also thought that came up when the older brother kept trying to "de-virginize" the younger brother to have sex at the resort with a woman.  

[SirBillybob]

I think it’s clever so far and these seemingly facile resolutions represent the apparently innocuous calm, sometimes sea receding and exposing more than low tide, prior to a tsunami onslaught. After all, the greatest muting of tension, now that we have a few hours behind us, has occurred with a late-breaking character prior to the gunfire sequence to leave the door open to main character victim identity. 

Lochlan is gender and sexuality curious, including intersex, an observer. Other references to gender fluidity and stratification have occurred. He’s the most interesting character not because of the reductionist view of homosexual potential (he could eradicate Saxon’s bravado demeanour with a look and send him on a cliché mission while raising overly simplistic audience assumptions about MSM lust) but because he can subtly and manipulatively disarm both siblings while on the face of it having conflict imposed on him wrt choosing an alliance with one or the other. He can point-blank cross a line with impunity staring down his naked brother even following cues to cease and desist, then asking his sister about her virginity. Piper cannot meet the challenge of resenting both brothers equally although Lochlan broke a confidence while also acting as conduit for his brother's intrusiveness. 

He can do temple and pool, generate sexual topic anxiety either saying nothing or pushing the envelope, while exacerbating the tension between older sibs. This deflects from familial pressures to choose the Alma Mater of two female members vs two male members. He sits between the two gender ambiguous staff about whom he had asked his father a sex ed question, that cloak his mother in her dream … protection forecasting?

The first Ep3 line is his “this is what it looks like before a tsunami”. On his device he comments on a tsunami victim paralytically frozen in place. 

Lochlan is pressured to have sex before he dies because it will assuage Saxon’s anxiety about his brother’s ambiguity. He never affirms the goal, rattling Saxon’s faux alpha confidence. Saxon's sense of self, of validation, hinges on a mini-me fantasy. 

Chelsea is a survivor and man eater, two brushes with mortality but she holds the cards interactionally, taming Rick, as Tonya held them financially while treated poorly, and her demise would be too repetitive.

Where death offers the greatest resolution systemically, other than the more obvious usual suspects’ “just desserts”, is Lochlan croaking because it solves a pathological bind. It needn’t be intentional malicious targeting. It would be divisive because not everybody will view him having reached a shit-disturbing behavioural threshold, and his coping style is a function of cray-cray family dynamics. He superficially does what’s expected but there’s a price for consuming a protein drink in just the right way and without slouching, and it may be his family enduring his eradication while never having recognized he both provocatively heats up and balances the system. This might mean Tim will have wiggled out of his business crisis. 

The three women mirror disorganized alliance dynamics but cancel each other out as demise candidates and can go separate ways, whereas families are bound. Lochlan’s triangulation is more profound. The lily pad pond is his tranquillity tank.

Edited March 4 by SirBillybob

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

2 hours ago, SirBillybob said:

I think it’s clever so far and these seemingly facile resolutions represent the apparently innocuous calm, sometimes sea receding and exposing more than low tide, prior to a tsunami onslaught. After all, the greatest muting of tension, now that we have a few hours behind us, has occurred with a late-breaking character prior to the gunfire sequence to leave the door open to main character victim identity. 

Lochlan is gender and sexuality curious, including intersex, an observer. Other references to gender fluidity and stratification have occurred. He’s the most interesting character not because of the reductionist view of homosexual potential (he could eradicate Saxon’s bravado demeanour with a look and send him on a cliché mission while raising overly simplistic audience assumptions about MSM lust) but because he can subtly and manipulatively disarm both siblings while on the face of it having conflict imposed on him wrt choosing an alliance with one or the other. He can point-blank cross a line with impunity staring down his naked brother even following cues to cease and desist, then asking his sister about her virginity. Piper cannot meet the challenge of resenting both brothers equally although Lochlan broke a confidence while also acting as conduit for his brother's intrusiveness. 

He can do temple and pool, generate sexual topic anxiety either saying nothing or pushing the envelope, while exacerbating the tension between older sibs. This deflects from familial pressures to choose the Alma Mater of two female members vs two male members. He sits between the two gender ambiguous staff about whom he had asked his father a sex ed question, that cloak his mother in her dream … protection forecasting?

The first Ep3 line is his “this is what it looks like before a tsunami”. On his device he comments on a tsunami victim paralytically frozen in place. 

Lochlan is pressured to have sex before he dies because it will assuage Saxon’s anxiety about his brother’s ambiguity. He never affirms the goal, rattling Saxon’s faux alpha confidence. Saxon's sense of self, of validation, hinges on a mini-me fantasy. 

Chelsea is a survivor and man eater, two brushes with mortality but she holds the cards interactionally, taming Rick, as Tonya held them financially while treated poorly, and her demise would be too repetitive.

Where death offers the greatest resolution systemically, other than the more obvious usual suspects’ “just desserts”, is Lochlan croaking because it solves a pathological bind. It needn’t be intentional malicious targeting. It would be divisive because not everybody will view him having reached a shit-disturbing behavioural threshold, and his coping style is a function of cray-cray family dynamics. He superficially does what’s expected but there’s a price for consuming a protein drink in just the right way and without slouching, and it may be his family enduring his eradication while never having recognized he both provocatively heats up and balances the system. This might mean Tim will have wiggled out of his business crisis. 

The three women mirror disorganized alliance dynamics but cancel each other out as demise candidates and can go separate ways, whereas families are bound. Lochlan’s triangulation is more profound. The lily pad pond is his tranquillity tank.

And herein lies the popular shtick of White Lotus:  Where everyone becomes an armchair psychologist and puts secondary and tertiary meanings on the most meandering of scenes.

It's the newfangled version of old Agatha Christie...  Everyone commenting on the whodunnit from the jump.

I can't say it's a bad thing, as it keeps people talking. 

... Even if they're talking in circles.

[Simon Suraci]

Saxon wants Lochlan to embrace heterosexual norms to validate his own male privilege, identity, and sexuality. He also wants an ally in the family besides his dad who is in a superior position both at work and at home. Saxon wants a peer or perhaps a subordinate ally too, in Lochlan.

Lochlan’s divided loyalty to his sister is in conflict with Saxon’s aim, as Piper and Saxon butt heads over sexual and power dynamics. At the same time, it’s as if Saxon is aware of, and using Lochlan’s m4m interest and curiosity to first draw in Lochlan’s attention and then redirect it toward women. It’s like he would rather risk a bait and switch than sit uncomfortably with his brother’s ambiguous identity. Like a Hail Mary move, so desperate it seems.

What gets me is why Lochlan is directing his gender curiosity and sexual interests towards Saxon. Most people would be repulsed by the thought of sleeping with his siblings. Why is Lochlan so enamored? Are there not plenty of other, more preferable men into which he can lock his longing gaze? If nothing else, internet porn? Why the fixation specifically on Saxon?

[SirBillybob]

45 minutes ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

And herein lies the popular shtick of White Lotus:  Where everyone becomes an armchair psychologist and puts secondary and tertiary meanings on the most meandering of scenes.

It's the newfangled version of old Agatha Christie...  Everyone commenting on the whodunnit from the jump.

I can't say it's a bad thing, as it keeps people talking. 

... Even if they're talking in circles.

That’s the fun of it. It’s like being randomly assigned to a debate position. Perhaps we should buy into the notion that evading prediction is superior, but then subsequently having an opinion comes across as disingenuous.

BTW, what does “armchair” mean and what criterion would eliminate it as a descriptor?

Edited March 4 by SirBillybob

[SirBillybob]

1 hour ago, Simon Suraci said:

Saxon wants Lochlan to embrace heterosexual norms to validate his own male privilege, identity, and sexuality. He also wants an ally in the family besides his dad who is in a superior position both at work and at home. Saxon wants a peer or perhaps a subordinate ally too, in Lochlan.

Lochlan’s divided loyalty to his sister is in conflict with Saxon’s aim, as Piper and Saxon butt heads over sexual and power dynamics. At the same time, it’s as if Saxon is aware of, and using Lochlan’s m4m interest and curiosity to first draw in Lochlan’s attention and then redirect it toward women. It’s like he would rather risk a bait and switch than sit uncomfortably with his brother’s ambiguous identity. Like a Hail Mary move, so desperate it seems.

What gets me is why Lochlan is directing his gender curiosity and sexual interests towards Saxon. Most people would be repulsed by the thought of sleeping with his siblings. Why is Lochlan so enamored? Are there not plenty of other, more preferable men into which he can lock his longing gaze? If nothing else, internet porn? Why the fixation specifically on Saxon?

Are we watching the same show? I detect no evidence whatsoever of Lochlan demonstrating an eroticized fixation on his older brother and I’ve seen all their interactions. In fact, the nuanced en suite bathroom scene where he looks away only when the door is shut can explain Lochlan’s subsequent manifestations of antipathy towards Saxon through passive attentiveness yet muted refusal to communicate beyond patient forbearance listening to the latter’s goals for him, and by manipulatively heightening his sister’s antipathy towards Saxon. As if, “I see you and what a curiosity you (all) are?”

Saxon’s familial ally is his enabler mother; his tasteless comments crack her up. His father manipulatively uses ego candy to get him to capitulate to sacrifice his device. Saxon is easily wrapped around most others’ fingers as a harmless innocuous pussy. One has to be smarter than a sack of hammers to strategically assess sexual interest by “forgetting” to close the loo door followed by setting up wash-the-gay-away camp. 

Edited March 4 by SirBillybob

[CuriousByNature]

5 minutes ago, SirBillybob said:

Are we watching the same show? I detect no evidence whatsoever of Lochlan demonstrating an eroticized fixation on his older brother and I’ve seen all their interactions. In fact, the nuanced en suite bathroom scene where he looks away only when the door is shut can explain Lochlan’s subsequent manifestations of antipathy towards Saxon through muted refusal to communicate beyond patient listening to the latter’s goals for him, and by heightening his sister’s antipathy towards Saxon. As if, “I see you and what a curiosity you are?”

Saxon’s familial ally is his enabler mother. His father manipulatively uses ego candy to get him to capitulate to sacrifice his device. Saxon is easily wrapped around most others’ fingers. 

I'm thinking that Saxon is the one who is closeted.  It seems he's overcompensating, and an eventual dalliance with Valentin, perhaps, could be the plot twist nobody is expecting.  I find Lachlan to be one of the few redeeming characters this season, though Coon's character has a certain depth to her as well.  The Thai characters also provide additional, more subtle interest, in my view.

[SirBillybob]

14 minutes ago, CuriousByNature said:

I'm thinking that Saxon is the one who is closeted.  It seems he's overcompensating, and an eventual dalliance with Valentin, perhaps, could be the plot twist nobody is expecting.  

Interesting, but not many degrees of separation in terms of sexual fluidity from last season’s Leo Woodall character dating Tonya’s assistant Portia and seen screwing one of the killer gays. 

I see Lochlan as a very sophisticated brat without the moustache twirling, but a symptom of family dynamics. 

[MikeThomas]

I feel like I’m in a gender studies class being taught by Andrea Dworkin! 😂

[SirBillybob]

1 hour ago, MikeThomas said:

I feel like I’m in a gender studies class being taught by Andrea Dworkin! 😂

Where, so far, is the meandering into radical feminism? I’d say that Debbie Downer more closely represents the commentary zeitgeist. 

Edited March 4 by SirBillybob

[d.anders]

Ep 3 was so boring. The scene of them giving up their tech equipment was so fake. Who on earth would go to dinner with Greg/Gary a second time? There isn't enough sexual tension for my liking. When Mike White decided on the spirituality theme, after so much sex in Season 1 & 2, that was a mistake. Season 3 is meandering with very little suspense or interesting mystery.

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

3 hours ago, d.anders said:

There isn't enough sexual tension for my liking.

I would agree.

If you're going to make me sit through this much bland exposition, at least give me hotter guys to watch like Will Sharpe and Theo James.

The cast this season is quickly becoming the Temu version of the White Lotus we expect.

[jeezifonly]

Very few people had heard of Mike White when Season 1 began. (I thought Chuck and Buck was wonderfully odd and touching)

He surprised us continually through that first season, and again throughout Season 2.

I’m just going to let him work his magic for the next few weeks.

The show’s prevailing message throughout, for me, is “stay the fuck away from big resort chains, and stay home more”

 

[TonyDown]

The 1st line of epi #3: 

       "this is what it's like before a tsunami"

Was Lochlan sitting on the beach with 2 lady boys in Victoria's dream?

[d.anders]

6 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

give me hotter guys to watch like Will Sharpe and Theo James

OMG, they both made my heart flutter when they removed the clothing. I wish Mike White would have gone further with their background story. Why couldn't they have played with homo sex in their past? They were perfect characters for a little drunk experimentation. When Theo hired the hookers, I wanted so badly for him to invite Will to the couch, in a nod to "like old times," to rekindle the bi-play they once had together. Not only would that have been hot, hot, hot, it would have driven us gay watchers absolutely into delirium. LOL

6 hours ago, BenjaminNicholas said:

The cast this season is quickly becoming the Temu version of the White Lotus we expect.

I don't know what that means, but I'm happy to agree.

2 hours ago, TonyDown said:

Was Lochlan sitting on the beach with 2 lady boys in Victoria's dream?

Yes, Lochlan was sitting between the two ladyboys, and he said to his mother, "This is what it looks like before a Tsunami." Yes, all the analysts on YouTube are suggesting that Lochlan is searching for his sexual identity. Does Mike White dare to go Trans in this season with Lochlan? He had the balls to mention you-know-who in Ep 3, so why not push the Trans button? It didn't help Emelia Perez, but that's mostly because the movie's star went bonko on social media, and most Trans folk hated the film.

I recently spoke to a friend who is very active in social media, and he asked me if I was watching White Lotus. After I said yes, he confirmed that everyone is complaining about Season 3, repeating a lot of points being made here. Unless the shit hits the fan soon, Mike White may disappoint a lot of fans.

Edited March 5 by d.anders

[Rod Hagen]

I got the incest vibes in the first episode when they were choosing rooms and it seemed like the sister was almost trying to protect the youngest brother from the oldest.  I'm fairly certain that horny brother is going to do something bad to younger brother, or try to, and unfortunately we, either because they telegraphed it or the Up-Stream spoilers in this thread, already see it coming.  SORRY!

[Rod Hagen]

The hot brit guy from season 2, now in that Horrible Math Show on Apple TV, Prime Target, not to be a bitch, but was his face that puffy in White Lotus?  I didn't notice it then.  And if not, wonder what happened in the short interim.

[MikeThomas]

55 minutes ago, Rod Hagen said:

The hot brit guy from season 2, now in that Horrible Math Show on Apple TV, Prime Target, not to be a bitch, but was his face that puffy in White Lotus?  I didn't notice it then.  And if not, wonder what happened in the short interim.

His face isn’t puffy

[+ BenjaminNicholas]

10 hours ago, d.anders said:

OMG, they both made my heart flutter when they removed the clothing.

Sharpe had an absolutely beautiful build when shooting S2.  

It's rare I'm watching an actor and absolutely envious of his build, but he was that guy when I saw him shirtless/naked.