Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secret Life of Married Men

[FrancoDiSantisxxx]

Obviously, the federal government and several states have defined marriage as between a man and a woman, but for the sake of discussion, I would like to take any relationship where the two have a commitment.

 

A number of my clients are married and bi-sexual men or are in long term relationships with women. A number are men who are openly gay but are in relationships with other men. In some of these cases, the partner (male or female) has agreed, for one reason or another, to "open up" the relationship. For example, in one instance, the wife is totally fine with the husband having male partners (although I do not believe she knows he occassionally hires), because he loves her and he still has sex with her regularly. He, for example, cannot understand why a man would want to sleep with another man, to him men are just a quick sex partner, not a companion or life partner, so a man does not threaten her. She would not, however, allow or permit another woman.

 

This subject has come up in relation to Senator Clinton's new book (and let us not get into a critique of either her - or his - politics and such), in terms of why she stayed with Bill Clinton and should she have. It has been some of these same self clients who have brought the topic up lately.

 

It is an interesting subject, one which has been discussed here before, often with many clients taking the position that marriage and relationships are sacred.

 

I would like to hear about the ethics of this from the perspective of the escorts, what the clients think the ethics should be and what the over all comments are on these types of situations from all.

 

Now, play nice or do not play at all "kids" - as Jacob would say.

[woodlawn]

My own position is that betraying a pledge you've made to someone and deceiving him or her about it is never a good thing to do and says something about the character of the person who does it. And anyone who knowingly facilitates such behavior is just as culpable as the primary actor.

 

That's why I think it's laughable that some escorts who take money to help men deceive their spouses or partners come here and complain about the dishonest behavior of other people. It's like watching an episode of the Sopranos in which Tony is complaining about the bad behavior of others. The difference is that in the case of the television show the comedy is intentional.

 

In one of our recent threads on this subject some offered the opinion that men are genetically incapable of monogamy. Some said there is no good reason why a relationship needs to be monogamous. But the point was also made that while it may be possible to have a relationship without monogamy, it seems difficult to conceive of a relationship without trust and without honesty. I agree with the latter point.

[Bilbo]

I agree with Woodlawn on this one.

 

Open relationships are based on truth and trust. I do understand when one of my leather clients asks that we make sure that there are no marks left on their bodies. There can be various reasons for this, including that while one is in an open relationship, one has been asked not to rub the other's nose in any dalliances - only to discuss them when they are important for one reason or another - or one doesn't want to worry one's partner and get mothered or teased to death.

 

Closed relationships are a nono with me. On the very first page of my site, it states that no one under 21 nor in a closed relationship is welcome on the pages that have most of my information on them, let alone welcome to making an appointment. Yes, I know that some men lie to me and trick me into accepting them as clients even though they are in closed relationships. I do ask that they continue lieing to me so that any spiritual guilt stays with them and is not shared with me.

 

Which, of course, puts me in a quandry whenever I see the untanned place on a finger where a ring is usually worn. Being human, I have not yet come up with an SOP for that one.

 

And, yes, I know that people in closed relationships may feel that they need these outside contacts. I don't ask you to be absolutely faithful to your spouse. That's really none of my business. I only ask that if you aren't you don't include me in on it.

[Guest Merlin]

I also know and hire a few guys who are married or in relationships with women, but who occasionally escort. A few well know escorts say that they are married but tell their wives that they are doing massage or some other story. While I agree that there is an element of dishonesty involved, I do not think it is the responsibility of the client, or the escort in the original examples, to avoid the encounter. The decision to stray or is a personal decision by husband. I am sure the husbands in all these situations feel that they are not "really" disloyal, since no love or emotional attachment is involved. In that sense, it is no more disloyal than masturbation. The husbands also feel that the wife ultimately benefits from the added income, and her probable objection results from a failure to understand that men can engage in sex without any less of an emotional or love commitment to the wife. I have and will hire such escorts because I believe that it is the decision of the husband to make, and really none of my business. I would probably feel differently if I thought the wife was really being hurt. But as long as she does not know I find it hard to see the injury.

[Bilbo]

Sorry, but I couldn't find a man who thinks that having sex with me is the same as masturbating very attractive.

[Guest Valkyrie]

The husbands also feel that the wife ultimately

>benefits from the added income and her probable objection

>results from a failure to understand that men can engage in

>sex without any less of an emotional or love commitment to the

>wife.

 

Huh?? I think this is missing the point entirely! First, a committed relationship is not about economics. Second, were the wife to engage in a little sideline escorting without his knowledge, strictly business-no emotional stuff, do you think the man would "understand" that women "can engage in sex without any less of an emotional or love commitment" to the husband?

 

I have and will hire such escorts because I believe that

>it is the decision of the husband to make, and really none of

>my business. I would probably feel differently if I thought

>the wife was really being hurt. But as long as she does not

>know I find it hard to see the injury.

 

Ah, and here is another fly in your soup of reasoning:

Do you really think that "what you don't know won't hurt you"?? Regardless of WHEN the dishonesty occurs, such a tremendous breach of trust WILL surface eventually, and WILL hurt the partner who is "left out"! It is not the sex that is at issue: it is the breach of faith. Once that has been destroyed it is extremely difficult, if at all possible, to rebuild it. Even if it is rebuilt, the relationship will be forever changed....something has died, and the Phoenix ain't the original bird....

 

Valkyrie

[+ Charlie]

Since you seem to be getting more responses from clients than escorts, I'll throw my two cents in. I don't think that escorts have an ethical responsibility to determine the nature of the relationships their clients are involved in--in fact, I think it arrogant of escorts to assume that they can determine the essence of someone else's relationship. The ethical problem of dishonesty is the client's, not the escort's. Even if the escort knows the client is married, I don't think he has an ethical obligation to refuse his business, though if he wants to do so because of his personal moral objection to the situation, that is his right. The responsibility for the integrity of the marital/partner relationship should be placed where it belongs, on the client, not the escort.

[Bilbo]

I am not saying that all escorts have an ethical responsibility to turn down clients who are in closed relationships. I am merely saying that I do. And it is not for the sake of the client that I do so. They may hurt their relationship by going into a kind of "closet", but that is, as pointed out, not really any of my business. I am only trying to protect my own spiritual path, not theirs. Greedy of me, I know, but since the subject rarely comes up, especially as I warn people not to allow it to come up, I don't wind up looking too greedy in person, anyway.

[+ Lucky]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Men

 

My relationship occasionally gets criticized because it is not a "closed" one. But the fact of the matter is that it lasts because the trust we have is solid and there is complete honesty between us. From that point of view,we are faithful to each other. As valkyrie might agree, trust and love are the foundation of the relationship, not sex.

[Guest Valkyrie]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Men

 

Eloquently put, Lucky! I wonder if those who would criticize your relationship because it is not "closed" could claim the same degree of honesty and trust in their own...

[taylorky]

i have to agree with you . although we would not have an open relationship,and even though i can't understand ones need for that. i do believe if both parties agree to having such a relationship......fine it's a decision they make and and it doesn't require my approval.

 

 

my disdain and even disgust is for those that sneak, and hide the second life from spouses or partners.

 

 

how can we trust a person that lies to the one person he/she should be the most honest with,how can they in good consience expose the person they supposedly love to diseases and infections and g-d knows what else.

 

 

and what kind of father or mother could put a child at risk just

to sastify a primal urge?

 

 

taylor@18:56-07/03/03

[giovoni]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Men

 

This is a bit off topic but in one instance not one hour after lecturing TJ and I about how thoughtless and cold and wrong we both were to not be monogamous, we were the reason straight people won't accept us, we are why gay marriage will never happen etc.... he got caught having sex with his BF's best friend in the bathroom at the party we were at.

 

Are all people who loudly tell other people how to live thier lives hipocrites? I'm sure there has to be someone somewhere who isn't . . . but I havn't met him.. or her.

 

Gio in Denver

http://angelfire.com/co3/massagebygio

[woodlawn]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Men

 

>Are all people who loudly tell other people how to live thier

>lives hipocrites? I'm sure there has to be someone somewhere

>who isn't . . . but I havn't met him.. or her.

 

 

As a gay hooker, I would think you would meet a lot of men, both openly gay and ostensibly straight, who cheat, but not a lot who don't. That may explain your experience.

[Bilbo]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Men

 

And it is said that we are most bugged by those very traits in other people which we percieve in ourselves. Or fear we have, whatever. And if you're upset enough to loudly criticize, perhaps you are fighting it very hard at the moment, in yourself.

[+ Charlie]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Men

 

An interesting story in today's Phila. Inquirer about a street preacher who travels around campuses railing against homosexuals: he has just been arrested for trying to pick up a 14 year old boy and offering money to suck his cock.

[giovoni]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Men

 

You're right I do meet LOTS of men who cheat and lie. Mostly however they are outside of my client contacts. I don't spend my entire life in the bedroom with clients and the example I sited was at a party that had nothing to do with the fact that TJ and I escort and at the time the people who were lecturing us and later getting caught had no knowledge about what we do for a living since they hadn't yet asked. Like so many gay men the first thing they started talking about was our sex life, not where we grew up, where we go to school, live, if we have dogs... just something like we heard that you two have an open relationship is that true.. etc.

 

 

Gio in Denver

http://www.angelfire.com/co3/massagebygio

[giovoni]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Men

 

Nothing is better for business here in Denver then when a religious group has a convention here in town. I wish the national congress of Presbyterian churches had stayed longer and we're counting down the days before the next promise keepers rally later this year. I don't know if other workers in other towns notice this sort of thing. I imagine the coasts are large enough that one or two conventions wouldn't make a difference.

 

Gio in Denver

http://www.angelfire.com/co3/massagebygio

[woodlawn]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Men

 

>And it is said that we are most bugged by those very traits

>in other people which we percieve in ourselves. Or fear we

>have, whatever. And if you're upset enough to loudly

>criticize, perhaps you are fighting it very hard at the

>moment, in yourself.

 

Thanks for yet another example of amateur psychology. It must be awfully annoying to real psychologists and psychiatrists that so many people feel qualified to practice their profession even though they've never had the necessary training or experience.

[Bilbo]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Men

 

Yet another amateur cataloguer. Ya know, my Mother, before she retired, was a cataloguing librarian. I don't remember her having any problem with people trying to catalogue their own home libraries even though they didn't have her expertise.

 

You speculate. I speculate. We all speculate for ice cream.

[VaHawk]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Me...

 

>It must be awfully annoying to real psychologists and psychiatrists

>that so many people feel qualified to practice their

>profession even though they've never had the necessary

>training or experience.

 

Not one half as annoying as it is to real escorts and the real clients who hire escorts to have you feel qualified to espouse your thoughts on how to conduct their business! Doesn't stop you from opining about it though, does it?

 

As you noticed, I didn't wait to be asked to post my comments.

 

Shithead aka VaHawk. BTW: I couldn't take offense at you calling me a shithead, as afterall who better than an ASSHOLE would know a shithead when he saw one?

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secret Life of Marrie...

 

>I don't think that

>escorts have an ethical responsibility to determine the nature

>of the relationships their clients are involved in--

 

I agree, Charlie. My clients' relationships are none of my business and I don't pass judgment. I'm there to provide a good time for the time we're together and that, in addition to my physical safety and that of the client, is my main concern.

[axebahia]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secrets of Married Men

 

>An interesting story in today's Phila. Inquirer about a

>street preacher who travels around campuses railing against

>homosexuals: he has just been arrested for trying to pick up a

>14 year old boy and offering money to suck his cock.

 

 

Was he a Catholic preacher?

[axebahia]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secret Life of Marrie...

 

>My clients' relationships are none of my

>business and I don't pass judgment. I'm there to provide a

>good time for the time we're together and that, in addition to

>my physical safety and that of the client, is my main

>concern.

 

I totally agree too, however I do feel odd about hiring an escort who talks about his boyfriend.

[Rick Munroe]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secret Life of Marrie...

 

>I do feel odd about hiring an

>escort who talks about his boyfriend.

 

I don't talk about him during my appointments...because he's usually right there with me anyway.

[axebahia]

RE: Ask Clients AND Escorts: The Secret Life of Marrie...

 

It wasn't intended as a criticism. I just find that it ruins the fantasy. One regular all of a sudden mentioned that when he "disappared" last year, it was on account of moving closer to his "platonic BF". I didn't understand the concept entirely, but it did explain why the recent encounters seem to lack the passion of his pre-platonic BF days.