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Some real world data, be it limited, was a news piece this week about businesses closing in LA including several along Melrose.  

One factor is high rents for leased commercial space.

Does this point to a recession coming?  Even though employees are finding new jobs, how will rising commercial vacancies affect local economies?

 

 

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5 hours ago, augustus said:

This analysis is shocking and speaks volumes about what really is happening.  Things are not well!

Not really an analysis, more just telling the whole story.  I started noticing that month after month the government would publish a stellar jobs report with great fanfare, only to very quietly revise it downward a week later.

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8 hours ago, BSR said:

Not really an analysis, more just telling the whole story.  I started noticing that month after month the government would publish a stellar jobs report with great fanfare, only to very quietly revise it downward a week later.

You are right.  The government has been way overstating job growth.  I'm sure the inflation numbers are fudged too.

 

WWW.FOXBUSINESS.COM

Increased government spending and hiring have padded 2023 year-end unemployment numbers by over 400,000, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

 

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11 hours ago, TonyDown said:

Some real world data, be it limited, was a news piece this week about businesses closing in LA including several along Melrose.  

One factor is high rents for leased commercial space.

Does this point to a recession coming?  Even though employees are finding new jobs, how will rising commercial vacancies affect local economies?

 

 

All over the country.  In NYC restaurants are closing left and right.  TGIF just closed 37 locations.  Consumers have run out of purchasing power.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 1/7/2024 at 4:39 AM, augustus said:

In NYC restaurants are closing left and right. 

NYC New Restaurant Openings, December 2023 - Eater NY
https://ny.eater.com/2023/12/7/23983007/nyc-restaurant-openings-december-2023

NYC’s Most Anticipated Restaurant Openings of 2024 - Eater NY
https://ny.eater.com/2024/1/10/24023017/nycs-anticipated-restaurant-openings-2024

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Walt said:

NYC New Restaurant Openings, December 2023 - Eater NY
https://ny.eater.com/2023/12/7/23983007/nyc-restaurant-openings-december-2023

NYC’s Most Anticipated Restaurant Openings of 2024 - Eater NY
https://ny.eater.com/2024/1/10/24023017/nycs-anticipated-restaurant-openings-2024

 

 

NYC Restaurant Closings, December 2023 - Eater NY

40 New York Restaurants Closed in January: Here’s Why - Eater NY

More are closing than opening.  It's terrible!

 

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4 hours ago, augustus said:

That's as of January 16, 2024.  More are closing now than opening.  It's terrible!

So 73 opened in December and 23 closed in December.

https://ny.eater.com/2023/12/7/23983007/nyc-restaurant-openings-december-2023

NYC Restaurant Closings, December 2023 - Eater NY

There have been "over 40" closings so far in January and there have been 61 openings so far in January:

NY.EATER.COM

New restaurant and bar openings in January 2024

Since December 1: 134 openings, 63+ closings. More are opening than are closing!

 

 

 

 

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After a brief break to catch something to eat, we now return you to your regularly scheduled recession.

Consumer sentiment surges while inflation outlook dips, University of Michigan survey show

  • On a two-month basis, sentiment showed its largest increase since 1991, said Joanne Hsu, the survey’s director.
  • Consumer sentiment has improved amid a drop in gasoline prices and solid stock market gains.

 

This is horrible.  Doesn't anybody realize a recession is coming?

 

Edited by stevenkesslar
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2 hours ago, stevenkesslar said:

After a brief break to catch something to eat, we now return you to your regularly scheduled recession.

Consumer sentiment surges while inflation outlook dips, University of Michigan survey show

  • On a two-month basis, sentiment showed its largest increase since 1991, said Joanne Hsu, the survey’s director.
  • Consumer sentiment has improved amid a drop in gasoline prices and solid stock market gains.

 

This is horrible.  Doesn't anybody realize a recession is coming?

 

Actually, we don’t feel better about the economy, it’s just taken awhile to adjust our budgets to the inflation shock.  Anybody who shops for groceries know this story is bunk!  

From the Bureau of Labor Statistics.....“The index for cereals and bakery products rose 16.1 percent over the year. The remaining major grocery store food groups posted increases ranging from 7.7 percent (meats, poultry, fish, and eggs) to 15.3 percent (dairy and related products)".   And now 2024 insurance premiums are rising at double digit percentages... medical, auto, home, etc. have all skyrocketed.  And real wages have fallen the past 3 years.  This is just straight up gaslighting.  A snow job, just opinions and no data.

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ABCNEWS.GO.COM

In a dispiriting sign of the times, barely more than a quarter of Americans say the American dream still holds true, about half as many as said so 13 years ago

So many more people are broken and dispirited than after the 2008-2009 Great Recession and financial crisis.  This is horrible.

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9 hours ago, augustus said:

A snow job, just opinions and no data.

Actually, no.  There is data.  

Americans' net worth grew 37% after pandemic hit: Fed survey

Real median net worth increased from $141,100 to $192,900 between 2019-2022

Auggie, it's horrible that the price of cereal has gone up.  It's a wonder that people with $50,000 more in net worth aren't starving to death.  How do they even get by?  And worse, a recession is coming!

9 hours ago, augustus said:

From the Bureau of Labor Statistics.....

Quote

Again, there is data.  

While its true that the average person with $50,000 more in net worth by 2022 and higher real wages in 2023 can barely afford a bowl of cereal, the fact that we made it past the global inflation and supply chain squeeze might explain why people are feeling better.  Ya think?  The US had lower inflation than most of the rest of the West.  Even though inflation sucks.  And our economy came out the strongest on the planet.  Maybe that helps explain why this recession has gone missing for so long???

It does help explain why my stock nerd nephew's net worth went up hundreds of thousands of dollars........... in the last few days!   He bought SOXL at about $7 a share in Fall 2022 and just kept buying more.  Which speaks to why we might not have a recession.  All that investment in tech and chips is paying off.  The US is the global leader.  I followed my nephew's lead, but own a lot less SOXL.  So my net worth only went up tens of thousands in the last few days.  It's horrible!  A recession must be coming!  

9 hours ago, augustus said:

A snow job, just opinions and no data.

That said, opinions do matter.

😉

Edited by stevenkesslar
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1 hour ago, stevenkesslar said:

Actually, no.  There is data.  

Americans' net worth grew 37% after pandemic hit: Fed survey

Real median net worth increased from $141,100 to $192,900 between 2019-2022

Auggie, it's horrible that the price of cereal has gone up.  It's a wonder that people with $50,000 more in net worth aren't starving to death.  How do they even get by?  And worse, a recession is coming!

Again, there is data.  Y

While its true that the average person with $50,000 more in net worth by 2022 and higher real wages in 2023 can barely afford a bowl of cereal, the fact that we made it past the global inflation and supply chain squeeze might explain why people are feeling better.  Ya think?  The US had lower inflation than most of the rest of the West.  Even though inflation sucks.  And our economy came out the strongest on the planet.  Maybe that helps explain why this recession has gone missing for so long???

It does help explain why my stock nerd nephew's net worth went up hundreds of thousands of dollars........... in the last few day!   He bought SOXL at about $7 a share in Fall 2022 and just kept buying more.  Which speaks to why we might not have a recession.  All that investment in tech and chips is paying off.  The US is the global leader.  I followed my nephew's lead, but own a lot less SOXL.  So my net worth only went up tens of thousands in the last few days.  It's horrible!  A recession must be coming!  

That said, opinions do matter.

😉

That mostly applies to a small percentage of the population, and that figure (which is not out of this world BTW) is concentrated in housing and stock prices, which may, and most likely will, decline.   For the majority of people, things are horrible!  People are fleeing your state left and right because of inflation in housing.  It's all over the news. 

California was bragging about a $100 billion SURPLUS in their state budget a year ago and now California has a $60 billion DEFICIT!  Out of nowhere.  You can't see the forest for the trees.  

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30 minutes ago, augustus said:

That mostly applies to a small percentage of the population, and that figure (which is not out of this world BTW) is concentrated in housing and stock prices, which may, and most likely will, decline.

Like I said.  There is data.  If one chooses to drink it.  

spacer.png

The $50,000 average increase in net worth is an average. Meaning, for the vast majority of Americans, net worth increased.  So, no, it is not a small percentage of the population.  It is the vast majority. 

Stock ownership is in fact concentrated in the top 10 % of the population, as you argue.  But my best friend, who is an escort, texted me his stock gain in 2023 - something like 25 % if I recall right.  That's a five figure number, not millions.  But it was meaningful to him.  And he said it was a great Christmas present.

My nephew is not rich.  But once he hits the sell button on SOXL he and his wife can buy a home for cash if they want.  The American Dream lives.  Who knew?  Oh, he'll also pay long term capital gains taxes.  If we could all compromise, like we did in the 90s, that could help pay off the deficit.  Which is a recessionary threat.  And most Americans do see it that way.

Meanwhile, 2 in 3 Americans own homes.  Most with no mortgage or a low fixed rate mortgage.  That is bedrock.  Again, this helps explain why the recession has gone missing.

You are correct that home values can go down.  But so can inflation.  It has.  Meanwhile, real wages have gone up.  You only want to focus on the bad news.

 

 

Edited by stevenkesslar
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I've read details of this morning's report and things are not good.  Nearly all of this growth came from government deficit spending and consumers going into more debt.   This avoided a recession, but it isn't remotely sustainable, and we'll pay for it in the long run.  There will be catastrophic results from all this debt!  Also, initial jobless claims are rising rapidly. This whole deck of cards is being held up by massive spending by the Federal Government which is not sustainable by the opinion of any reputable economist.

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Federal government deficit spending for 2023 was 6% of GDP, almost double the GDP "growth."  Smoke and mirrors.  Did anyone read the report and how much Government accounted for GDP? How is that sustainable? The only way it can be sustained is if Government investment spurs economic growth outside of government generating tax revenue to fund the government, and that is NOT happening.  In fact, during the last Federal Budget year tax revenue was down 10% from the year before.

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People are not being fooled by this propaganda.  The economy is a long explanation of vague measurements.  If you've maintained your same lifestyle for years you know at the end of the month after bills if you've got anything left over or not and how that compares to what you had before.   Words can't cover up the fact that you can't afford the same stuff you could before.  Too many people are 2 weeks out from bankruptcy and the soaring costs of EVERTHING does not help the average person!  

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Some people might notice the looming disaster of the federal debt as the interest payments on the debt approach the highest category of federal spending.  This is going to lead to double digit inflation.   I have to ask, how do you deal with all this spin and not get dizzy? The people KNOW the economy is not good and inflation is ravaging the majority of Americans!  

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Interesting response from the above members.    The reality is,  there are a number of reasons for a recession.   A recession will arrive with certainty.    I don't think it will be in the short term,  however.     Soft landing?   At the moment things look pretty good.   I believe I heard the economy grew at 3.3% last quarter and the economists had expected about 2.0%.

 

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1 hour ago, augustus said:

The people KNOW the economy is not good and inflation is ravaging the majority of Americans!  

Consumer sentiment surges while inflation outlook dips, University of Michigan survey shows

Quote
  • The University of Michigan’s Survey of Consumers showed a reading of 78.8 for January, its highest level since July 2021.
  • On a two-month basis, sentiment showed its largest increase since 1991, said Joanne Hsu, the survey’s director.
  • Consumer sentiment has improved amid a drop in gasoline prices and solid stock market gains.

 

 

Edited by Kevin Slater
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