AITA in this first (and last) exchange?

[Jamie21]

That’s an unfortunate exchange. I suggest be specific on date and time and location. As in ‘I’d like to book 90mins at 3pm tomorrow, at yours’. The best clients have already made up their mind to hire and know what they want, so long exchanges are avoided. Questions like ‘what’s your availability?’ are irritating because the best answer is ‘it depends’ and that reply, although tempting, isn’t likely to be endearing. You tell me what you’re wanting and I’ll do my best to comply or provide an alternative. And please see the website or profile for any answers before asking questions. We can go from there….

[rn901]

why are clients always answering in a forum titled ask a provider? it helps to be as specific as possible when contacting a provider. that's been said ad nauseum on here. he was probably tired of dealing with other flakey vague time-wasting nonsense. doesn't completely justify his response, but if you want better responses then just get to the point at answering questions and be specific about meeting. time date location. it isn't complicated. scheduling an appointment with a provider shouldn't be such an insurmountable challenge. 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

10 hours ago, arnemgreeves said:

You';re both to blame. and i'm not being rude here, and just honest. you're mostly to blame. So 60/40 in your favour vis a vis the "blame game". 

I say this because some providers can be sticklers on a set date or time. This doesn't make them rigid, unreasonable or "bad people". It's their job. They need regularity in booking and don't like time wasters. I can get why he responded that way. He probably has his reasons for this. 

It seems you both were on different wavelengths. You probably had good intentions in not being specific, and he had good intentions in insisting on a given date and time.

 

Looking back at the text and response, even my view has somewhat changed since this thread came up lol.

I don’t think there was even any “fault” in the exchanges. I see it was just bad communication on both sides, and unfortunately in todays gay hookup world: I’m learning bad communication is the #1 cause of most missed connections. 
 

I actually noticed that the escort’s responses were actually more time wasting than the clients. The client asked questions, the escort responded like a Grindr chat. This is why I have long time ago created Pre-written templates for every client, to get the conversation where it needs to go. For example: 

 

Hi and welcome, I’m (name). For your 1st contact, please include some more details so I can best accommodate your desire:  

Name/Age:

Self Describe:

Top/Btm:

Website Seen On:

Yours or My place:

This right here answers 99% of questions I need to know. What does get me is some clients who immediately freak out and either don’t reply or say something like, “never mind”. 

I have to make clear to people, you aren’t texting your football buddy or Aunt Melissa. Be prepared that I’m going to respond professionally. If I was the client in this situation, I would have wanted to have my own Pre-template. Sounds like the OP did, but it wasn’t really pertinent questions. So, the provider got annoyed.

But the provider was waiting for the client to do all the work, and that’s where he could have done better.

Edited September 22, 2022 by Jarrod_Uncut

[Jarrod_Uncut]

2 hours ago, rn901 said:

why are clients always answering in a forum titled ask a provider? it helps to be as specific as possible when contacting a provider. that's been said ad nauseum on here. he was probably tired of dealing with other flakey vague time-wasting nonsense. doesn't completely justify his response, but if you want better responses then just get to the point at answering questions and be specific about meeting. time date location. it isn't complicated. scheduling an appointment with a provider shouldn't be such an insurmountable challenge. 

Well…

I think clients input is okay to an extent, as you want to have both sides to a story and it does help having some feedback from clients in between replies. Some clients may even agree with providers on some subjects, which can often help others understand that it doesn’t always have to be differing opinions.

Also I’ll add: when it comes to asking about client background/age, I’m finding I need to stay true to that. Before anybody says anything about it.

The other week I had someone come thru, who I would have normally turned away before even meeting. I should have because he turned out to be a pain in the ass in more ways than one (no pun/reference intended). I won’t be doing that again. And I knew something wasn’t right because I was trying to get him to give more info about his looks, and he was being evasive. 

 

[rn901]

8 minutes ago, Jarrod_Uncut said:

Well…

I think clients input is okay to an extent, as you want to have both sides to a story and it does help having some feedback from clients in between replies. Some clients may even agree with providers on some subjects, which can often help others understand that it doesn’t always have to be differing opinions.

 

I would agree except most of the time there's more clients than providers responding to a post in this forum. It is titled "ask a provider". Some of them are chomping at the bit to give their overlyconfident answer too. The first string of responses were all from clients, all criticizing the provider. Their input would be fine with more humility and alongside more input by more providers first. Otherwise, we should call this forum something else. At a deeper level it really shows an unwillingness to hear providers' point of view on things and drown it out with their own point of view on what they think is fair and how they think a provider is supposed to act....in a forum titled "Ask a Provider" of all places. Yuck. It defeats the purpose of this forum and many providers are probably like "why even bother with this place". On other corners of this site, I've seen some of the worst sentiments, mentalities and ineptitude being enabled in this industry. Would be nice to have at least one section where providers can have their voices being prioritized. 

[Jarrod_Uncut]

6 minutes ago, rn901 said:

I would agree except most of the time there's more clients than providers responding to a post in this forum. It is titled "ask a provider". Some of them are chomping at the bit to give their overlyconfident answer too. The first string of responses were all from clients, all criticizing the provider. Their input would be fine with more humility and alongside more input by more providers first. Otherwise, we should call this forum something else. At a deeper level it really shows an unwillingness to hear providers' point of view on things and drown it out with their own point of view on what they think is fair and how they think a provider is supposed to act....in a forum titled "Ask a Provider" of all places. Yuck. It defeats the purpose of this forum and many providers are probably like "why even bother with this place". On other corners of this site, I've seen some of the worst sentiments, mentalities and ineptitude being enabled in this industry. Would be nice to have at least one section where providers can have their voices being prioritized. 

There does need to be more escort input, but over the eons, people have come and gone or concerned posting could hurt their business if they say the wrong thing. There’s been a few good players, but people and priorities change I guess. Some escorts too just like to “play” very private. They only want to exude 1 type of image, the untouchable RentMan. Any sort of platform that blurs that, is best to be avoided. It doesn’t do anything to promote acceptance, change or opinions. But some people really just about themselves, and there’s just nothing you can do about it.

When I do come here, admittedly it’s often during a time I’m going thru patches in the biz and need to consult. When things are smooth sailing, I just don’t always have the capacity to give input. When business is going good, I almost have to keep the momentum going on a subconscious level lol. And that could mean not really concerning what’s going on elsewhere.

That said, when I am here: I’m willing to share and learn. 

[MiamiLooker]

5 hours ago, rn901 said:

At a deeper level it really shows an unwillingness to hear providers' point of view on things and drown it out with their own point of view on what they think is fair and how they think a provider is supposed to act....

Do you mean when clients think a provider is supposed to act like a professional?

[rn901]

9 hours ago, arnemgreeves said:

There is no restriction not to post here. People don’t need your permission to use a public forum. Get off your ducking high horse.

Then let's not cluelessly wonder why so few providers come on here when even a forum titled "Ask a Provider" is inundated with a stream of responses from clients prior to any provider getting so much as a chirp in. While we're at it lets also not wonder why many providers leave the business after 1-2 years or why so many clients complain on here about the less-than-optimal experiences they receive. You sleep in the bed you make for yourselves. 

[rn901]

6 hours ago, MiamiLooker said:

Do you mean when clients think a provider is supposed to act like a professional?

No when clients think a provider should act like it's a one-sided arrangement of servitude, rather than a completely two-sided mutually autonomous deal, in an industry that doesn't have a 1-2 year turnover rate while not being in the middle of a labor shortage while not alongside daily complaints as to why clients continue to receive less than optimal experiences for years and years on end as they aimlessly continue to wonder "Why, oh why me".  Good clients are more likely to get good providers. That's just how it works. Sorry to bear that inconvenient news. 

Edited September 22, 2022 by rn901

[rn901]

1 minute ago, arnemgreeves said:

you mean YOU wonder. look, don't tell random strangers what to do. fuck your ego, and fuck people like you who hate being "judged by strangers". wow, so full of himself on every fucking level!  

 

If you own this forum, and set the rules, fine. if not, shut the f up. i'm laughing i'm way more mature and less up myself that i can skip over shit i don't like. 

No, I don't wonder at all why so few providers come on here or why many leave the business after 1-2 years or why some clients on here get less-than-optimal experiences. That is not a wonder to me whatsoever. Incorrect, try again. 

[rn901]

15 minutes ago, arnemgreeves said:

you mean YOU wonder. look, don't tell random strangers what to do. fuck your ego, and fuck people like you who hate being "judged by strangers". wow, so full of himself on every fucking level!  

 

If you own this forum, and set the rules, fine. if not, shut the f up. i'm laughing i'm way more mature and less up myself that i can skip over shit i don't like. 

I'm not telling people what to do. I posed a question and I'm expressing my opinion which I have just as much right to do as you. Tough shit buddy. It's absurd that clients provide an avalanche of responses to posts like this before one provider gets even one word in. The forum should be titled something else if we think that ought to be the norm. My opinion, my right to express it...in a forum titled "Ask a Provider". Tough shit. Deal with it.

Edited September 22, 2022 by rn901

[mike carey]

Moderator's Note

Gentlemen, a reminder that this forum is to enable clients to ask providers questions about what works in hiring them. Follow up questions are part of that process. I would remind you that the guidelines for the forum are:

Quote

An area to learn what makes a good encounter with a provider. No arguments allowed.

That does not preclude clients offering their own experience of what makes a good appointment for them but it's not a place for a debate. Thanks.

[rn901]

37 minutes ago, mike carey said:

Moderator's Note

Gentlemen, a reminder that this forum is to enable clients to ask providers questions about what works in hiring them. Follow up questions are part of that process. I would remind you that the guidelines for the forum are:

That does not preclude clients offering their own experience of what makes a good appointment for them but it's not a place for a debate. Thanks.

It may enable clients to ask questions, but such does not fully enable providers to freely give answers that certain clients may not find comforting to certain preconceived notions. May I gently and lightly suggest that "learning" and over enforcement of "no arguments allowed" is quite a difficult balance to strike? My apologies if this is not the place for me to pose such propositions. If this, indeed, is not the appropriate place then by all means... carry on as you were. 

[Jamie21]

Oh dear this is becoming like Twitter. I avoid expressing any kind of opinion on there because it just degenerates into ad hominem insults. I just post thirst trap pics and videos! Even those attract some strange comments sometimes. 

I suppose in a forum called ‘ask a provider’ it’s reasonable to assume most of the replies should be from providers. I try to give my provider perspective but I am conscious of trying not to offend potential clients with things I might say. I think on balance though it’s positive to contribute here because a genuinely held opinion put respectfully is likely to be positive for business. I mean if you don’t like my views or position you’re probably not going to be a good client are you? So no loss there. Best you feel an affinity with me because then it’s likely to be a good session. It’s kind of like putting heavily airbrushed (or even worse, faked) pics on your profile to attract clients. When they see the real you they’ll only be disappointed. 

I like to hear what clients think about the ‘ask a provider’ questions though so I think it’s good for clients to post things on the thread. However the client comments do show that there are some big misunderstandings about what life is like as a provider. I don’t work 2 hours a day and make $100k net a year. It’s at least 3 hours a day……

Before I started doing this work I too had those misunderstandings (and I used to hire) so I can see where they come from. But now having been doing this kind of work for about 5 years I also see the other side. So clients, if a provider says ‘this is how it is from my perspective’ then he’s doing so from a position of greater knowledge than you (even if you’ve been hiring for years) and you shouldn’t say he’s wrong because you haven’t walked in his shoes have you?

You’re entitled to your opinion of course, but I know who’s opinion on the job from the provider perspective I will take more note of. 

[Guest]

I think the central question here that's rousing strong feelings is "what is the 'ask a providers' section for?". I don't claim to have the right to decide the answer to it on my own, and I don't think anybody else would either, but I'm guessing we can all agree there are tradeoffs between its various aims. We all understand the idea of "taking up space", and we all understand that while the deli provides another arena well suited to the discussion of the industry from a client's point of view, this is the only section that really centres the escort's. 

When I joined the board I asked some 101 level questions and received thoughtful and helpful answers from experienced providers, and some valuable perspective from experienced clients. I've stuck around since largely in the hopes of returning the favour. Yet, when a newer escort recently asked a series of questions on this board, I think they got a much different treatment than I got, and I found it hard to even offer an escort's perspective through the many clients jumping in with harsh feedback. 

So the section feels like its shifted somewhat away from a space of mutual education towards one of open opinion expression, so to speak, and I think that shift coincided with the unavoidable change in moderation. That's not a criticism of anyone, since I think we're all grateful to those who stepped up. Just something for moderators and posters alike to consider going forward: is my post going to be helpful to somebody (client or provider) who's new or continuing to learn in this industry? Do I want this sub-forum to contribute to general learning about providers experiences, and if so, how do I balance that with my desire to get my own feelings out? 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Guest
clarity

[sincitymix]

When i joined this board i was new to everything, I lurked for awhile and read from both clients and providers. This forum is a wealth of information, and the people who populate it is as unique and varied. 

When I message a provider, if the answers I am looking for can't be found on the boards, I am very succinct in what I want and what I am looking for which has served me well. 

 

Ie:

Hello my name is SCM, I saw your ad on XX. I am into insert kinks/fetishes/etc etc (by stating what you are into rather than asking the provider what they will do seems to be a better tactics from what I read on here.. lower chance of the provider thinking your LEO or some such). I am interested in an Incall ( or simply asking if they can host.. or come to me etc). What are your session rates. 

This is the format that others on the boards have advised on... 😛

 

[Marc in Calif]

On 9/25/2022 at 9:06 AM, arnemgreeves said:

well am I wrong? 

Correct! 🎯